From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Tue Mar 9 15:54:54 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Tue Mar 9 15:55:04 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Re: Perl module - HTML::Microformats In-Reply-To: <1267406263.15017.35.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> References: <1266654664.14928.12.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <03cf8d8e39c7aef21865069627f7ca08.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> <1267406263.15017.35.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 01:17 +0000, Toby Inkster wrote: > http://search.cpan.org/~tobyink/HTML-Microformats/ > > Next release will include hCalendar. Just released version 0.00_03 which includes hCalendar 1.1 support. (hCalendar 1.1 is an unofficial draft that takes hCalendar 1.0, expands upon underspecified parts of the official spec, cuts out some cruft, and provides a shortcut for todo lists.) -- Toby A Inkster From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Wed Mar 10 06:08:58 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Wed Mar 10 06:09:04 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Parsing class=value-title Message-ID: <77596e0a8646d0325fb651da09ef8d66.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> One of my todo items for HTML::Microformats 0.00_04 is to support class="value-title". This is a newish markup pattern that has only arisen since Swignition development stagnated, so unlike much of HTML::Microformats, support for it hasn't simply been ported across from the old codebase. However, from the Wiki... http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Parsing_machine-data_value-title > Microformat specifications must explicitly state which properties > may be used with this extension of the value-class-pattern. Given that none do, it seems that class="value-title" will never be legitimately encountered, so I can cross it off as "done" with no code changes. Am I right? If not, why not? -Toby From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Wed Mar 10 09:26:27 2010 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Wed Mar 10 09:26:51 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Re: Perl module - HTML::Microformats In-Reply-To: <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> References: <1266654664.14928.12.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <03cf8d8e39c7aef21865069627f7ca08.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> <1267406263.15017.35.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: <60cb038a1003100926o7570edf0pbbb372a83bfc5402@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Toby Inkster wrote: > On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 01:17 +0000, Toby Inkster wrote: >> http://search.cpan.org/~tobyink/HTML-Microformats/ >> >> Next release will include hCalendar. > > Just released version 0.00_03 which includes hCalendar 1.1 support. Toby, I applaud your implementing of hCalendar in HTML::Microformats. Please consider also implementing the value class pattern, as it greatly helps improve accessibility: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern > (hCalendar 1.1 > is an unofficial draft that takes hCalendar 1.0, expands upon > underspecified parts of the official spec, cuts out some cruft, I believe I have requested this before, but just in case it got lost in email. Could you please document the issues you believe you have found in hCalendar 1.0 on the hCalendar issues page [1] (checking for previous reports on resolved/closed issues of course [2][3]) ? Lots of folks have reported issues, all of which have been resolved and/or closed to date, thus making the resolved/closed issues pages a good source of hCalendar errata while they get incorporated into the hCalendar 1.0.1 and hCalendar 1.1 works in progress. I'd like to incorporate fixes for the issues you've found as well into hCalendar, in addition to everyone else's reported issues and fixes. > and > provides a shortcut for todo lists.) This seems like either a circumvention of the microformats process or implementation of your own poshformat for todo lists. There is the "task" microformat effort here which is attempting to solve this problem space: http://microformats.org/wiki/task If you'd like to advance that work on a new microformat - please feel free to advance those pages per the process[4] and raise it as a topic of interest on the microformats-new mailing list. I for one think it would be great to have a proper to-do / task microformat, and would be interested in helping you pursue this. Thanks, Tantek [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues [2] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues-resolved [3] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues-closed [4] http://microformats.org/wiki/process -- http://tantek.com/ From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Wed Mar 10 11:14:26 2010 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Wed Mar 10 11:14:31 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Parsing class=value-title In-Reply-To: <77596e0a8646d0325fb651da09ef8d66.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> References: <77596e0a8646d0325fb651da09ef8d66.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Toby, On 10 Mar 2010, at 06:08, Toby Inkster wrote: > However, from the Wiki... > > http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Parsing_machine-data_value-title > >> Microformat specifications must explicitly state which properties >> may be used with this extension of the value-class-pattern. > > Given that none do, it seems that class="value-title" will never be > legitimately encountered, so I can cross it off as "done" with no code > changes. > > Am I right? If not, why not? The rationale went like this: We were designing a pattern that has a difficult relationship with our principals of DRY and invisible data, but comes in reaction to actual publisher and parser experience. We didn't want to create a pattern that enabled a generic hidden-data mechanism, and so I wrote in that clause, which is supposed to ensure that each microformat vocabulary identifies the applicable date, duration and any other fixed-format fields that class=value-title may be parsed with. This was probably an error, since the revision cycle for other specs is too infrequent. However, further along in the documentation is this: > This document post-dates other microformat specifications, such that they may not yet indicate which properties permit use of this pattern. In the interim, the following types of properties should allow the value-title pattern. > > ? ISO8601 date, datetime, timezone, and duration values > ? Enumerated values (such as the hCard tel/email/adr 'type' subproperties) > ? Co-ordinates (such as the geo 'latitude' and 'longitude' properties) > ? Telephone number properties (e.g. the hCard 'tel' property) > > The [[machine-data]] page has documentation of some of the properties of some specs which experience has shown need a solution like the value-title pattern. ? http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#limited_use_of_value-title So, value-title is applied retroactively via the properties documented on , and has been implemented by other parsers. Google have added support for parsing value-title (albeit without any property restrictions), and also document its use in hCalendar for their Rich Snippets app. I agree the current documentation is misleading and inaccurate, so I'll give that a tweak. B From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Wed Mar 10 15:06:23 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Wed Mar 10 15:06:31 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Re: Perl module - HTML::Microformats In-Reply-To: <60cb038a1003100926o7570edf0pbbb372a83bfc5402@mail.gmail.com> References: <1266654664.14928.12.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <03cf8d8e39c7aef21865069627f7ca08.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> <1267406263.15017.35.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <60cb038a1003100926o7570edf0pbbb372a83bfc5402@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1268262383.27087.54.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Wed, 2010-03-10 at 09:26 -0800, Tantek ?elik wrote: > Please consider also implementing the value class pattern, as it > greatly helps improve accessibility: > > http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern This page covers a variety of parsing features which I'll talk about separately: 1. "classic" value excerption: e.g. Toby Andrew Inkster This was supported in cognition 0.1-alpha7 (April 2008) and in HTML::Microformats from the start. 2. Splitting up date, time and timezone values: e.g. At 19:10:00 on 2008-07-24 That's been supported since cognition 0.1-alpha11 (release date as per the HTML above!), and again has been in HTML::Microformats since the start. As it was implemented long before the pattern became fully documented on the Wiki, it probably needs checking against the test cases. 3. Leaving out parts of the dtend and implying them from dtstart. e.g. At 19:10:00 on 2008-07-24 21:10:00 This is not yet supported and may take some time to support. Each property is parsed fairly independently you see, so adding feedback from parsing dtstart into the parsing of dtend will need some work. > > (hCalendar 1.1 > > is an unofficial draft that takes hCalendar 1.0, expands upon > > underspecified parts of the official spec, cuts out some cruft, > > I believe I have requested this before, but just in case it got lost in email. > > Could you please document the issues you believe you have found in > hCalendar 1.0 on the hCalendar issues page [1] (checking for previous > reports on resolved/closed issues of course > [2][3]) ? > > Lots of folks have reported issues, all of which have been resolved > and/or closed to date, thus making the resolved/closed issues pages a > good source of hCalendar errata while they get incorporated into the > hCalendar 1.0.1 and hCalendar 1.1 works in progress. > > I'd like to incorporate fixes for the issues you've found as well into > hCalendar, in addition to everyone else's reported issues and fixes. I've mentioned my motivations on the hcalendar-brainstorming page. Essentially it boils down to one thing. hCalendar 1.0 states that it's "a 1:1 representation of the aforementioned iCalendar standard, in semantic HTML". This implies that every feature of iCalendar is supported in hCalendar. However, most iCalendar properties are undocumented in the hCalendar spec, leaving implementors to guess exactly how they should be implemented - e.g. singular properties vs plural, URLs versus strings, etc. I needed a detailed specification that I could work to when coding, and point to when documenting. In most senses it is simply a clarification of hCalendar 1.0. It takes the Semantic XHTML Design Principles from the top of the spec and applies them to the iCalendar properties ignored by the hCalendar 1.0 spec, to make an educated guess as to what hCalendar 1.0 would say about them if it said anything at all. It also makes three additional changes: 1. It scraps vtimezone. So in that sense, it's a less than 1:1 mapping. vtimezone is pretty horrible. 2. It replaces vjournal with hAtom entries, and provides a table to help map between iCalendar journal entries and hAtom entries. > > and > > provides a shortcut for todo lists.) > > This seems like either a circumvention of the microformats process or > implementation of your own poshformat for todo lists. 3. It adds class=vtodo-list. class=vtodo-list is essentially what happens if you put hCalendar's vtodo component plus XOXO in a jar and shake it a bit. By adding class=vtodo-list to a
    or
      element, you state that every
    1. descendant element has an implied class=vtodo, and if these implied vtodos lack summary properties, the whole text of the vtodo becomes the summary. > I for one think it would be great to have a proper to-do / task > microformat, and would be interested in helping you pursue this. hCalendar 1.0 already provides todo lists. It's just not documented. HTML::Microformats is not the only parser that implements it. (X2V does, but it's commented out; any23 seems to, though I haven't tested it.) -- Toby A Inkster From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Sun Mar 21 01:45:57 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Sun Mar 21 01:46:09 2010 Subject: [uf-dev] Re: Perl module - HTML::Microformats In-Reply-To: <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> References: <1266654664.14928.12.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <03cf8d8e39c7aef21865069627f7ca08.squirrel@goddamn.co.uk> <1267406263.15017.35.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <1268178894.19575.16.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: <1269164757.8745.36.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> [resending...] On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 23:54 +0000, Toby Inkster wrote: > http://search.cpan.org/~tobyink/HTML-Microformats/ Version 0.00_04 is now available. It includes support for these microformats: - hReview - hResume - xFolk There are major improvements in datetime parsing, including support for implied dates on hCalendar dtend properties and hAtom updated properties. e.g.
      2010-03-20T17:00:00+0000 to 18:30:00: polished my Mickey Mouse statuette (no, that's not a euphemism)
      Where the time-only dtend would pick up the date and timezone from the dtstart. There's also support for the new(ish) class="value-title" pattern. -- Toby A Inkster