[uf-discuss] FYI: Jeff Jarvis on microformats and Google Base
ryan at technorati.com
Tue Nov 22 13:55:58 PST 2005
On Nov 22, 2005, at 2:50 AM, Jon Tan wrote:
>> I think they've already said no to this and I don't think they
>> need a special invitation.
> Have they said no outright?
Personally, I don't care. Of course:
>> Of course, if anyone here has contact at Google, you should bug
>> them incessantly until they implement µf's. :D
>> Also, we have a good number of formats that need work. It'd be
>> nice to move some alone, rather than just starting new efforts.
>>> The issue of an API and whether it is closed or open may be
>>> depreciated if the data that Google Base will hold is in
>>> Microformats and could possibly be aggregated in other ways
>>> anyway? Supporting MFs input and output may also, in the long
>>> run, be a way for GBase to be more comprehensive and useful.
>> This is, of course, for google to decide.
> ...with perhaps a little encouragement on every level.
I encourage every googler I meet (which is many levels). There are
definitley googlers interested in µf's, but there's only so much we
> Searching for products, property and jobs could be revolutionised
> by MFs and immensely valuable for all users, whether they know what
> the blogosphere is or not.
No one would disagree with you here. In fact if you'd read the
archives and/or the wiki, you'd see that a good deal of discussion
and research has been put towards this purpose already (see http://
microformats.org/wiki/listing-examples and http://microformats.org/
> If it was ever seriously suggested that until current ones are in
> widespread use others should be on hold or not be discussed it
> would be unfortunate.
I'm just saying that we could use help with moving along current
> Don't confuse enthusiasm for a potential result with critisism of
> the here and now. At Grow we are implementing MFs unilaterally and
> will get to experimenting with apps in time and are willing to work
> with the community on any level to facilitate other development.
> In the meantime in regard to the GBase question my point was that
> they have their app now. I don't think there's a need to compete
> but for any possible faults it may have in relation to open data
> formats, GBase will no doubt appeal to non technical users outside
> the blogosphere and perhaps MFs need to do the same somehow or at
> some point?
Of course µf's need to expand outside the blogosphere. Just not
today. We're still in an early adopter stage- and that's ok, because
this is how it always works. Someday soon, someone around here will
build a killer-app that will enable my mom to use µf's (even if she
doesn't understand, still). Until then, I'm not worried.
>> We taking on a lot of things with microforats - entrenched
>> technologies, companies and ways of thinking. I don't think we
>> should add media hacking to that list.
> I don't think that awareness building and positive engagement with
> mainstream media who possibly represent a significant webview held
> by end-users is media hacking. It goes to my view that if non-open
> formats like GBase pose a problem then supporting MFs from both
> sides is logical: Encouraging the participation and implementation
> by authors and technologists. Then also identifying the problems
> non-technologist end-users currently encounter and showing how MFs
> could help solve them.
FWIW, we're already doing this last part, just not in the media.
> It doesn't require a killer app but an explanation of the features,
> benefits and incentives by fictional case study for journalists,
> non-techies and organisations might help. I'd also be willing to
> contribute towards this if folks think it would be useful?
I just don't see journalists being able to help us that much. We're
doing pretty well without much press coverage.
Now having said that, I see nothing wrong with people preparing press
material, if you're interested.
>> There's many other things you can do to help:
>> 1. publish microformats
>> 2. write tools which use microformats
>> 3. educate people about microformats
>> 4. research and develop new formats
> Currently doing or trying.
ryan at technorati.com
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