Fwd: [microformats-discuss] Re: Educationg Others

[Scott Anderson]

[apoligies for any duplicate responses...orginally sent to list from
wrong email address]

On 10/3/05, Ryan King <ryan at technorati.com> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2005, at 12:58 AM, Scott Anderson wrote:
> > I like the idea of semantic markup in XHTML but it is not
> > clear to me as to what (or which) problems you are trying to solve
> > with microformats.
>
> Problems which involve the distributed publishing and consumption of
> information.
>
> (purposely vague, we'll know the limits when we hit them)

Which problems relating to the publishing and consuming of content
would be better solved through the use of XHTML and microformats than
a solution based on the Atom syndication and publishing formats.

> > What type of applications and/or services do you
> > envision consuming these data structures? XHTML is a presentation
> > format so my inclination is to think that microformats will be
> > relegated to the domain of JavaScript.
>
> I beg to differ. XHTML is a structured document format. The fact that
> browsers have default renderings for it is a wonderrul convenience,
> but by no means necessary for the documents to be used.

In my opinion XHTML would need to be enhanced by much more than
microformats for it to become useful as a general XML document format.
I think trying to overload the format to handle different type of
applications will increase its complexity while decreasing its utility
for each application domain.

> >> Not everyone has figured out that "plain" XML has failed (with the
> >> exceptions of RSS and XHTML) on the Web, and thus on its way down
> >> and out as something that is seriously considered, expect to see more and more
> >> desperate "last ditch" efforts to promote it like this article,
> >> and in fact, there will always be a few individuals pushing it.
> >
> > This sort of arrogant ignorance is probably why us zealots have
> > difficulty taking your vision seriously.
>
> I wouldn't call Tantek ignorant. XML has largely failed *on the web.*

XHTML is XML
Atom is XML
SOAP is XML
XMPP is XML
WSRP is XML
WML is XML

What non-XML formats have succeeded?

> I can sketch out an application for you, if you like, but building
> applications has, so far, not been our focus around here. Mostly,
> though, microformats can be seen as a way to enhance current
> applications- this is esp. true, since we try to model the
> development of microformats around current behavior.

I think it would be very useful if you could sketch out an example of
how microformats could typically be used to enhance current
applications.