[uf-discuss] hCite progress

Jeremy Boggs jeremyboggs at gmail.com
Tue Nov 14 09:23:04 PST 2006

On Nov 13, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> Page count is only relevant to publishers and book stores (maybe).

Page count is also important in academic and non-academic reviews of  
books, specifically when the review prints the information of the  
book in question. See the NY Times review of _Ghost Map_ [1] as one  

THE GHOST MAP: The Story of London’s Most Terrifying Epidemic — and  
How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World. By Steven  
Johnson. 299 pp. Riverhead Books. $26.95.

This is a very common citation format for book reviews. I'd be glad  
to gather evidence on this if need be.

> Do we want to then include ways to encode the length of a CD or a  
> DVD film or an HTML document? I think not, particularly when there  
> are more important issues to worry about.

Me not knowing what other important issues are aside, I do think we  
should include ways to encode the length of a CD or DVD...length of  
films, music, and other audio/video media is included when citing  
them. That said, the citation-examples page does not include these  

There isn't a standard citation format that I'm aware of that tries  
to include the length of an HTML document. Then again, I'm only  
familiar with Chicago-style citations. The Chicago format for citing  
an online MPEG would be:

	Weed, A.E. _At the Foot of the Flatiron_. American Mutoscope and  
boigraph Co., 1903; 2 min, 19 sec.; 35mm; from Library of Congress,  
_Early Motion Pictures, 1898-1920_. MPEG, http://hdl.loc.gov/ 
loc.mbrsmi/lcmp002.m2a33981 (accessed November 14, 2006).

Lots of different stuff included in this citation: format, length,  
access date. Could you hCalendar to mark up the access date. My  
concerns with media-info are outlined below:

On Nov 13, 2006, at 10:17 PM, Scott Reynen wrote:

> Page count still looks out of scope to me for hCite, and closer to  
> the type of information (i.e. file size) being discussed in media- 
> info.

The only problem I see with this is that, according to the citation- 
brainstorming page, there is a significant difference between  
citation and media-info: media-info "describes information about  
content embedded or inline in the current document" whereas citation  
is a "reference to something explicitly external."[3] Especially with  
the example citation I give above, even though I'm citing an audio- 
visual source, because its external from my document, I should use  
hCitation, NOT media-info, at least according to the current  
definition on the wiki.

I do think that page counts should be accounted for, in some way.  
Whether that way is in hCite or through a redefinition of media-info  
(or some other options).

Jeremy Boggs

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/12/books/review/Quammen.t.html? 
[2] http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples
[3] http://microformats.org/wiki/citation- 

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