[uf-discuss] Visible Data...a Microformat requirement?

[Mike Schinkel]

>> It is most often simply properties of the information which are still
relevant to the user and thus should be visible.

Okay, I think I can probably agree while still holding out the potential to
uncover needs in the future that do not fit that pattern.

>> If it is not worth or appropriate to make the information visible, then
it is not worth trusting the information and certainly not worth the time to
make a microformat for it.

But what if the website publisher (or graphic designer) does not want that
information to be visible on the page?  Some may, but other's may not. I'm
trying to follow the principle that Microformats should not require the user
to really "change" anything beyond adding Microformat functionality.  If
they don't currently display this metadata, are you saying that a
Microformat should force them to do so?

>> Have you tried using as many existing microformats as you can on your
current sites? 

Ohhhh Yeah!  I've been combing through even Microformat you have listed and
reading each in-depth.  Sad to say, but I've probaby got more than twice as
many in mind as you currently have listed... But I don't want to propose
anything until I've got time to flesh them out otherwise I'll be in a
bloodbath of trying to justify them before I've done all the required
research.

That said, what if I have a need for a microformat but have no idea what the
best name for it would be?  Ideally I'd like to present the concept and get
help with naming. But currently the process seems to be to give is a name on
a wiki page and document it?  How can I do that w/o a name (I know I'm being
pedantic, but I'm actually trying to call the question of how to
consistantly go about using the community to help find a name for a
potential uF.)

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org
[mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org] On Behalf Of Tantek Ç
elik
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:16 AM
To: microformats-discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Visible Data...a Microformat requirement?

On 10/22/06 11:10 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <mikeschinkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian Suda recently said:
> 
>>> the problem with using Meta elements is that they are out-side of 
>>> human-readable realm. One of the key factors in microformats
>>> is to keep the data visible, it keeps it fresh, prevents   many of
>>> the abuses that have befallen meta-keywords, and also allows for 
>>> microformats to be fully emebedded in other formats like Atom, RSS, 
>>> etc.
> 
> My question is this: What about when what you have is really metadata 
> and not anything (currently, at least) stored on the HTML page?

Rarely is metadata actually metadata.

It is most often simply properties of the information which are still
relevant to the user and thus should be visible.

If it is not worth or appropriate to make the information visible, then it
is not worth trusting the information and certainly not worth the time to
make a microformat for it.

Note that in addition to visible text, visibility can be in the form of a
the interactivity of a hyperlink (its URL), or in the CSS used to style
something with a particular attribute (e.g. XFN), or in the tooltip shown
for title attributes.

> (I'm asking
> because several things I want to propose will fit into that 
> category...)

Have you tried using as many existing microformats as you can on your
current sites?

Tantek

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