[uf-discuss] Re: Flock + Microformats
Chris Messina
chris.messina at gmail.com
Thu Sep 14 17:50:00 PDT 2006
Hmmm.
It's a wonder that engineers ever built a craft to go to the moon.
Here's a usecase I've been throwing around recently:
Take Ma.gnolia, which support hAtom and xFolk. Right there, you have a
datastore. Literally, in the HTML, that's rich, parseable data.
Now, let's say I want to see my bookmarks in a desktop app and I have
web connectivity.
In a smart tool, it would grab my the HTML file from the server (since
it would be the freshest), we'd salt it with some CSS and voila, a
great looking bookmarking representation.
I can drag, drop, reorder, and do anything that any modern web app can do.
Now -- whoops! -- all of a sudden I'm offline. But -- phew! -- I have
a local cached copy of the HTML (just like a browser would)! Any of
the transformation that I need to do could be performed on that cached
HTML and then when I reconnect (here's the magic that needs to be
figured out) all my changed would be resynced with the server. In
fact, hAtom makes it extremely easy to handle this use case, so with
Ma.gnolia, you're done.
The beauty is that *any* other desktop application that wants to pull
in my bookmarks can do so if it has a webview inside it.
Don't look now, but this is what we've started doing with our WebKit project:
http://webkit.pbwiki.com/ExistingProjects
...except that all of our data is currently stored remotely in web
services. When you store your data in HTML, you have an instant
fall-over, offline data store that can be manipulated by JavaScript
and easily read by any other HTML-friendly tool. Storing such simple
data in proprietary RDF makes no sense.
Want one more pertinent example?
Say the Apple Address Book stored its entire data store in hcard -- in
individual HTML files. Now Flock comes along and wants to put people
in the browser. Well gee, all you have to do is alias the address book
storage directory and work with those hcards. No API needed. No
conversion needed.
Instead Apple uses their own proprietary storage format creating a
silo, and when Flock comes out with their RDF store, it'll be yet
another non-transferable, non-accessible silo of person data. A
completely wasted opportunity to save yourself work, create a
completely hackable datastore and show a commitment to open,
web-friendly standards.
So yeah, no one's done it yet. Which is why it's the perfect time to do it now.
Chris
On 9/14/06, Ian McKellar <ian at mckellar.org> wrote:
> Bah! Lucene is basically a red herring. We need some way of storing
> searchable semantic data though.
>
> It doesn't make any sense to me (nobody technical has ever tried to
> convince me otherwise) to store my data inside my application in
> html+css. We'd like to consume and produce microformats when it make
> sense, but internal representation is a completely different issue.
>
> Ian
>
> On 9/12/06, Chris Messina <chris.messina at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Where it really gets interesting is in adding mF detection to Lucene.
> >
> > I'm pushing them to store people and relationships in hcard and xfn,
> > but so far they've rolled their own RDF.
> >
> > Grrrrrr!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On 9/12/06, Farndon, Tony <tony.farndon at forestry.gsi.gov.uk> wrote:
> > > damn forgot, will release under the GPL (and if you want to throw a 17"
> > > mac book pro my way as a thank you please do so......)
> > >
> > > Double damn, just realised I referred to flock as your employees not ers
> > > in my original post!
> > >
> > > Good luck, it really isn't too much work for them to incorporate
> > > microformats IMHO
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Farndon
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org
> > > [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Chris Messina
> > > Sent: 12 September 2006 17:06
> > > To: Microformats Discuss
> > > Subject: Re: RE: [uf-discuss] Flock + Microformats
> > >
> > > Here's teh workflow for you non-Flockers:
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/sets/72157594281137456/
> > >
> > > Nice work Tony! I'll definitely show the Flock folks the visuals! ;)
> > >
> > > What license is your extension?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > On 9/12/06, Farndon, Tony <tony.farndon at forestry.gsi.gov.uk> wrote:
> > > > Hi Chris
> > > >
> > > > Be sure NOT to show them the extension source code, they will
> > > > scornfully frown at the immaturity of it :-). Mind you I knew
> > > > absolutely nothing about xul and javascript before june of this year
> > > > so you can't expect too much!
> > > >
> > > > Gives an idea of how easily it could fit into the blog editor though.
> > > >
> > > > Tony Farndon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org
> > > > [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces at microformats.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Chris Messina
> > > > Sent: 12 September 2006 16:25
> > > > To: Microformats Discuss
> > > > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Flock + Microformats
> > > >
> > > > I have a meeting with the Flock folks today (yes, my former employer!)
> > >
> > > > and I'll drop them a hint -- as I did when I worked there -- about
> > > > their opportunity in being the first (and best!) in supporting
> > > > microformats natively.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the tip!
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > On 9/12/06, Farndon, Tony <tony.farndon at forestry.gsi.gov.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Hi folks
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I didn't use the subject header to get Chris Messina's
> > > attention!
> > > > > Heck, maybe I did if you still keep up with the pulse at your old
> > > > > employees?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I have quickly created a (concept) extension for the flock
> > > > > browser (0.7.*) which incorporates microformats creation into the
> > > > > flock blog editor. I am not too sure if this is being worked on by
> > > > > flock inc or not, so am posting this email to see if anyone thinks
> > > > > it is worth me taking this extension further forward?
> > > > >
> > > > > At present it just allows you to create and insert an hCard to give
> > > > > you an idea, but all other formats worthy of inclusion could, well,
> > > > > be
> > > >
> > > > > included. I have attached the xpi if anyone wants to try it out and
> > > > > let me know your thoughts/ideas/concerns etc
> > > > >
> > > > > At the moment, it is under the completely lame name of heads ;-)
> > > > > (well, it does the opposite of Tails doesn't it ?)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://flock.spatialviews.com/?q=node/23
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best wishes,
> > > > >
> > > > > +++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored
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> > >
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> > > purposes.
> > > >
> > > > > +++++ +++++
> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chris Messina
> > > > Citizen Provocateur &
> > > > Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
> > > > Work: http://citizenagency.com
> > > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> > > > Cell: 412 225-1051
> > > > Skype: factoryjoe
> > > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > microformats-discuss mailing list
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> > > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> > > >
> > > > PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET.
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> > > > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied
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> > > > In case of problems, please call your organisational IT Helpdesk.
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> > > >
> > > > +++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
> > > > +++++ communications carried out on them recorded, to secure the
> > > > +++++ effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
> > >
> > > > +++++ +++++
> > > >
> > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government
> > > Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by
> > > Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.
> > > >
> > > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > microformats-discuss mailing list
> > > > microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> > > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Messina
> > > Citizen Provocateur &
> > > Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
> > > Work: http://citizenagency.com
> > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> > > Cell: 412 225-1051
> > > Skype: factoryjoe
> > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > microformats-discuss mailing list
> > > microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> > >
> > > PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET.
> > > On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the
> > > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied
> > > exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.
> > > In case of problems, please call your organisational IT Helpdesk.
> > > The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to
> > > achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number
> > > 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality mark initiative for information
> > > security products and services. For more information about this please
> > > visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
> > >
> > > +++++ The Forestry Commission's computer systems may be monitored and
> > > communications carried out on them recorded, to secure the effective
> > > operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. +++++
> > >
> > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure
> > > Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable &
> > > Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.
> > >
> > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > microformats-discuss mailing list
> > > microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Messina
> > Citizen Provocateur &
> > Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
> > Work: http://citizenagency.com
> > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> > Cell: 412 225-1051
> > Skype: factoryjoe
> > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> > _______________________________________________
> > microformats-discuss mailing list
> > microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
> >
>
>
> --
> Ian McKellar <http://ian.mckellar.org/>
> ianloic on [flickr | aim | yahoo | skype]
> ian at mckellar.org on [email | jabber | msn]
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
>
--
Chris Messina
Citizen Provocateur &
Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
Work: http://citizenagency.com
Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
Cell: 412 225-1051
Skype: factoryjoe
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
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