[uf-discuss] proposed title-design-pattern is not backwards compatible, too big of a change

James Craig jcraig at apple.com
Sun Apr 29 01:54:31 PDT 2007

Tantek Çelik wrote:

> And though it may seem odd that I'm simultaneously arguing against the
> proposed title-design-pattern and attempting to improve it, even if  
> I am
> against a particular proposal, I would much rather attempt to  
> improve it in
> good faith, for the benefit of having the best possible proposals be
> discussed, than not.

This is wise, and I will follow your example:

The seconds in ISO 8601 are optional, and are almost always "00"...  
Since screen readers sometimes pronounce HH:MM correctly but rarely  
get HH:MM:SS correctly, it would be better to avoid using seconds,  
too. Although I don't believe it's good enough, omitting the seconds  
would make time pronunciations slightly better, as including the  
dashes makes date pronunciations slightly better.

"2007-04-29T12:30:00+06:00" would be "two thousand seven dash zero  
four dash twenty nine tee twelve thirty zero zero plus six o'clock"

"2007-04-29T12:30+06:00" would be "two thousand seven dash zero four  
dash twenty nine tee twelve thirty plus six o'clock"

Note: In negative time zones (i.e. Pacific is "-08:00"), the hyphen  
is usually pronounced as "dash." I am not aware of any non-custom  
verbosity defaults than pronounce the hyphen as "minus." Therefore,  
though "two o'clock plus five o'clock" makes *some* vague sense as a  
time zone adjustment to 7 AM, "two o'clock dash five o'clock" implies  
a 3-hour duration from 2 AM until 5 AM rather than the intended  
meaning of 9 PM the previous day.

Quoting a recurrence example from the Microformats wiki at:

> Then we put in the quite lengthy explicit specification of every  
> other time the event occurs, marked up around the human readable  
> description.
> <abbr class="rdate" title="20050407T1200-0700/PT7H,  
> 20050408T1200-0700/PT7H,
> 20050409T1200-0700/PT7H, 20050410T1200-0700/PT6H,  
> 20050412T1200-0700/PT4H,
> 20050413T1200-0700/PT4H, 200504014T1200-0700/PT7H,  
> 20050415T1200-0700/PT7H,
> 20050416T1200-0700/PT7H, 20050417T1200-0700/PT6H,  
> 20050419T1200-0700/PT4H,
> 20050420T1200-0700/PT4H, 20050421T1200-0700/PT7H" >
> Tu/Wed: 12-4pm Th/Fr/Sat 12-7pm Sun 12-6pm
> </abbr>

In Jaws 8 on Windows XP, this is pronounced, "Hey you... yeah you,  
'Blindey.' F**k off."  ;-)


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