[uf-discuss] Authoritative hCards [was RE: Canonical hCards (was: Search on CSS element)]

[John Allsopp]

Chris,

(all the following simply thoughts in the spirit of brainstorming,  
rather than any particular argument in favour of my original suggestion)

> I pretty much came up with a very similar proposal for handling this
> issue, though from the standpoint of XFN-links, and I think that
> John's suggestion is very good, though instead of using "bookmark
> self" might suggest "me self" for identifying the One True Hcard:
>
> <div class="vcard" id="vcard">
>  <address><a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/hcard/#hcard" class="fn
> url" rel="me self">Chris Messina</a></address>
>  <div class="org">Citizen Agency</a>
>  ...
> </div>

I wonder whether hAtom had predated XFN, self instead of me would  
have been chosen for the identity value?

The "definition" of the self attribute value in Atom is "self: the  
feed itself". The term "the" seems to indicate "definitiveness". So,  
I was initially going to argue that "self me" was tautological, but  
in fact, in this sense it is not, and indeed, the addition of  
bookmark is probably tautological.

So, I'd probably +1 this suggestion, and perhaps also suggest that  
for hReview simply a rel value of "self" be required for the  
permalink, for consistency.

> The use of the <address> tag is also important, as it signifies with
> additional certainty that the author of the page own the hcards --
> making it doubly authoritative.

Thats true. But just to note (as I am sure you know) that as address  
is an inline element, this enforces certain contraints on its  
descendents - they al have to be inline elements.

> Thus if you can find an object at "address a[rel~=self].url", there's
> good chance you've got something pretty solid.
>
> Thoughts? (I've also updated my post to reflect John's suggestion)

I suggest the correct use of self is definitive, so address, while  
perhaps advisable, doesn't need to be required.

j

>
> Chris
>
> On 1/29/07, John Allsopp <john at westciv.com> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> > For my money, John Allsopp's idea to reuse rel="bookmark self" [1]
>> > makes most sense. As well as being gorgeously consistent with other
>> > existing microformats, it's also a completely graceful addition to
>> > existing hCards.
>>
>> thanks ;-)
>>
>> There's a lot of goodness to reuse from other ufs, for sure.
>>
>> > The only concern I can see to check is if this would conflict with
>> > and break the parsing of hAtom/hReview that already use those rel
>> > values in combination?
>>
>> When rel-license is inside an hReview, it is taken to be associated
>> with the review,  rather than the larger fragment it would otherwise
>> be associated with (e.g. post or page)
>>
>> I wonder whether that makes sense more generally - things apply at
>> the finest level of granularity at which it mkes sense - so
>> rel="bookmark self" applies to the microformatted content it is most
>> directly descended from.
>> Are there reasons people think this is a bad idea?
>> An analogy again is categories in hAtom
>>
>> You can have either feed categories or entry categories. Both are
>> encoded using rel-tag. The difference is that entry categories are
>> inside the hentry element, while feed categories are in the hFeed
>> element (but not in the hEntry element). The point is that hEntry
>> elements descend from hFeed elements, so all entry categories are
>> inside an hFeed element.
>>
>> Indeed, Brian Suda, Michael Kaply, or someone else who does a bit of
>> parsing might weigh in on whether or not this is an implicit
>> assumption they make more generally with their parsers, or whether it
>> might become an explicit convention - to try and formulate it (badly)
>>
>> "where a feature of microformats may apply to more than one element
>> in a descendent tree, it is associated with the element which most
>> directly contains it ."
>>
>> > It would take the guesswork out of parsing, whilst publishing
>> > useful information. Additionally, what do people think to
>> > situations where an hCard contains a A/@REL="bookmark self" but not
>> > @class=url? The use case being when I don't regard my /about page
>> > as being a relevant URL for inclusion in my hCard parsing, but do
>> > wish to have it followed and parsed as the authoritative version.
>>
>> Not sure whether this is straying into the 20% part of the problem
>> space? Just my initial response, with little real thought ;-)
>>
>> john
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>>
>
>
> -- 
> Chris Messina
> Citizen Provocateur &
>  Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
> Work: http://citizenagency.com
> Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
> Cell: 412 225-1051
> Skype: factoryjoe
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