[uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo

Patrick Griffiths ptg at htmldog.com
Sun May 6 05:13:23 PDT 2007

Jeremy Keith wrote:

> I think you might be missing a lot of the tongue-in-cheekiness of the 
> term. Nobody thinks it's a particularly good or clever term but it's 
> better than saying "not a microformat" as in when someone writes "I've 
> just created my own microformat" and they are then told "no, what you 
> have created is...[insert term here]"

Yep - it's quite possible I missed the extent of the 
tongue-in-cheekiness of it! It might be assumed that others will, too...

> It doesn't matter what the term itself is. If you'd rather say "a 
> semantic HTML pattern", that's fine. If the term POSH dies off, that's 
> fine. The term itself is unimportant. What's important is that people 
> are thinking about how to create and use semantic markup patterns and 
> (crucially) also realising that a semantic markup pattern by itself 
> isn't a microformat.
>> So I think lumping this with microformats partly defeats the point - 
>> it has the potential to confuse and seemingly complicate things, 
>> rather than clarify and simplify them.
> No argument there. But you can see how we still need somewhere to point 
> people to when we say things like "Before you start using microformats 
> you should be using [insert term here]" or "What you're proposing 
> doesn't need to be a microformat but it's a great example of [insert 
> term here]".

Absolutely - I see a very important need for the microformats community 
to ensure basic semantic practices are understood. I'm just not 
convinced that POSH is the right way to go about it. Aren't there 
adequate resources, both technical (Simple Quiz, Bite Size Standards, 
HTML Dog, etc.) and evangelical (WaSP, Zeldman, loads of others), out 
there already to point to? It seems a bit like re-inventing the wheel, 
and adding yet another term to Geekworld will surely confuse things for 
some people.

> Personally I think http://htmldog.com/ would be a great resource to 
> point people to when they need some tutorials and references on semantic 
> HTML. If you wanted to set up a disambiguation page on your site 
> (including whatever personal issues you have with using the POSH acronym 
> if you like) it would make a great jumping-off point for people who need 
> to brush up on their meaningful markup: people who, as you point out, 
> are coming to microformats too soon:

How's this in addition: A quick and friendly "Are you ready for 
microformats?" quiz, with a few semantics-related questions and helpful 
explanatory answers?

I'd be happy to do this, and your suggestion, and help in other ways 
where I can. Might have to wait until mid-June though. Damned real-world 
work getting in the way and all that :)


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