, then

is the root element. Also, in XHTML, there is no class attribute on the root element. Put these together, and you get: if the snippet it parsed as if it were an XHTML document, the class attribute on the root element is ignored. Solution: make sure that Cognition doesn't parse the snippet as XHTML, but as HTML instead. How? Easiest way is to leave out an optional end tag. http://pastebin.com/m12ebc0e8 Converts to: http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/icalendar/PB:m12ebc0e8 Nifty, nifty! -- Toby A Inkster From roBman at MobileOnlineBusiness.com.au Wed Dec 3 04:47:13 2008 From: roBman at MobileOnlineBusiness.com.au (Rob Manson) Date: Wed Dec 3 04:48:23 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] SOAPjr, JSON-Schema validator plugin and common data models Message-ID: <1228308433.2970.226.camel@robsmack> Hi all, just thought I'd send off a post about a project that's closely related to mircorformats...and it aims to share data model schemas as much as possible. The core project is: http://SOAPjr.org SOAP Junior is a hybrid of SOAP and JSON-RPC We've also just released a jQuery plugin that let's you load in remote or local JSON Schemas (such as jcard/hcard - see http://soapjr.org/js/jquery.ValidJSON.js and http://json-schema.org/shared.html ). >From that point you can load and validate JSON objects/data in a single call. Our aim is also to provide some simple transformation libs that implement microformats too. I'd love to hear any feedback or constructive criticism you have. And it's all under GPL...so feel free to adopt, re-use or re-purpose it as you see fit. roBman From tjameswhite at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 08:58:14 2008 From: tjameswhite at gmail.com (Tim White) Date: Wed Dec 3 08:58:18 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] .tel Message-ID: Has anyone seen the upcoming .tel domains (http://telnic.org/)? Seems like a perfect spot for hCard. Tim From andr3.pt at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 09:28:05 2008 From: andr3.pt at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Lu=EDs?=) Date: Wed Dec 3 09:28:09 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] .tel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Tim White wrote: > Has anyone seen the upcoming .tel domains (http://telnic.org/)? Seems > like a perfect spot for hCard. Indeed it does... only, the example page is doin' it wrong!! lol http://emma.tel/ There's a .vcard somewhere, but unfortunately, nothing to do with hcards. -- Andr? Lu?s From angus at pobox.com Wed Dec 3 09:39:48 2008 From: angus at pobox.com (Angus McIntyre) Date: Wed Dec 3 09:39:51 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] .tel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4719.208.82.13.114.1228325988.squirrel@webmail.nomadcode.com> Tim White wrote: > Has anyone seen the upcoming .tel domains (http://telnic.org/)? Seems > like a perfect spot for hCard. That will presumably be at the discretion of the people who run the '.tel' domain (i.e. Telnic), since there aren't expected to be any user-creatable websites in '.tel'. It might be worth evangelizing to them. Given that we're currently in the sunrise period for '.tel' and applying for your '.tel' will cost you a cool $400, it may be a while before we start seeing large scale adoption of '.tel' by individuals. I don't know if prices will fall when the landrush period starts in February of next year. Incidentally, there's an outfit called chi.mp (http://chi.mp/) who do something broadly similar to Telnic. They give you a (currently) free '.mp' domain to host contact information and links to your social network activity, and act as an OpenID delegate. They would also be a candidate for use of hCard: at present, the chi.mp-generated 'home pages' include a element with class 'vcard', but the examples that I've seen are not a valid hCard. See, for example http://laurel.mp/. It looks as if chi.mp aren't trying to support hCard properly. I'd think that both of these services would also be good candidates for use of rel-me, hResume (AFAIK they don't offer resume support, but perhaps they should), and maybe hAtom (if they republish hAtom-izable content such as blog or micro-blog posts). Angus From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Wed Dec 3 09:49:17 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Wed Dec 3 09:49:38 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hrecipe Draft now online *!!!!* Message-ID: hi all, hRecipe is now a draft, linked from the frontpage. time to celebrate (a little) and scrutinely proofread, critizise and polish the sweet little bastard... http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe. a few notes right away: * i rather shamlessly copied the hAudio draft so don't be surprised if some of the wording sounds familiar to you * i'm not so sure about who is named editor, author etc. please feel free to change as appropriate * i added all contributors i could find in the wiki. if someone is missing, please add him/her as well. i didn't check the mail archives so i might very well have overlooked somebody... * please have a look at the copyright and public domain section. i added all the authors and me (as editor). i hope that's okay for everyone!?! cheers thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From knownasilya at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:11:13 2008 From: knownasilya at gmail.com (ilya radchenko) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:11:17 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] xoxo double newline in ie6 Message-ID: I have a

Client:

Random Client

and in ie6 it draws with a blank space between every li block. I tried changing margins, list-items, padding... From brian.suda at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:42:25 2008 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:42:29 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] xoxo double newline in ie6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21e770780812031042x332f54br26ab47d01c24420b@mail.gmail.com> do you have a link so others can view, confirm and replicate the problem? -brian On 12/3/08, ilya radchenko wrote: > I have a > >

>
>
Client:
> >
Random Client
>
>

> > > and in ie6 it draws with a blank space between every li block. I tried > changing margins, list-items, padding... > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From andreluis.pt at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 11:08:47 2008 From: andreluis.pt at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Lu=EDs?=) Date: Wed Dec 3 11:08:49 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] xoxo double newline in ie6 In-Reply-To: <21e770780812031042x332f54br26ab47d01c24420b@mail.gmail.com> References: <21e770780812031042x332f54br26ab47d01c24420b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've battled this bug before, not that it's uf-related. ;) try: (...)

whatever

whatever 2

(...) I think IE doesn't like whitespace between

and

. -- Andr? Lu?s On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Brian Suda wrote: > do you have a link so others can view, confirm and replicate the problem? > > -brian > > On 12/3/08, ilya radchenko wrote: >> I have a >> >>

>>
>>
Client:
>> >>
Random Client
>>
>>

>>
>>
Client:
>> >>
Random Client
>>
>>

>> >> >> and in ie6 it draws with a blank space between every li block. I tried >> changing margins, list-items, padding... >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > > > -- > brian suda > http://suda.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Wed Dec 3 12:25:08 2008 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Wed Dec 3 12:25:13 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hrecipe Draft now online *!!!!* In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F7FF226-CB3E-468E-9E6B-33073378C4B4@ben-ward.co.uk> On 3 Dec 2008, at 09:49, Thomas Loertsch wrote: > hRecipe is now a draft, linked from the frontpage. time to celebrate > (a > little) and scrutinely proofread, critizise and polish the sweet > little > bastard... http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe. I've already requested that the existing recipe-issues page be fully updated to track changes and decisions made in the move from Phae and my brainstorm to this draft. As per, new issues should be filed on the recipe-issues page. > a few notes right away: > > * i'm not so sure about who is named editor, author etc. please feel > free to > change as appropriate Phae and I authored one of the original brainstorms, and if that's the one that this was derived from, I'm happy with the credit. Naming the yourself as editor is fine by me (since you've obviously just edited this draft together and Frances and I stepped back a while ago when we couldn't find time to commit to it), so as long as you're prepared to take on the workload of managing issues, that's fine too. I'll wait for the issues documentation to be completed and then follow up. Thanks, Ben From jason.karns at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 12:48:24 2008 From: jason.karns at gmail.com (Jason Karns) Date: Wed Dec 3 12:48:27 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] xoxo double newline in ie6 In-Reply-To: References: <21e770780812031042x332f54br26ab47d01c24420b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1005d65f0812031248r4998c9d7ve35dd4650189a8e1@mail.gmail.com> This is a "hasLayout" bug in IE. Simply giving 'layout' to either the LIs or the UL will solve the problem. There are many ways to do this (applying height, setting the zoom property, using display:block) and each have their own benefits and drawbacks. For a full explanation and many possible solutions, see: http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html To jump directly to the list-specific info, see: http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html#list ~Jason From tom at tommorris.org Wed Dec 3 16:08:11 2008 From: tom at tommorris.org (Tom Morris) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:08:15 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] .tel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 16:58, Tim White wrote: > Has anyone seen the upcoming .tel domains (http://telnic.org/)? Seems > like a perfect spot for hCard. >

The whole thing is highly idiotic and if there's any justice in the world, it'll completely fail and become the butt of jokes for years to come. If we can steer people towards using hCard, geo and other open solutions, that would be far preferable to a poorly thought-out system. Telephony is more like a protocol than a domain. Can you imagine .email, .irc, .rss or .ssh TLDs? It's that stupid.

People should just put a representative hCard on their homepage and then have a thing to parse it out and dial it. I've been meaning to build a JavaME thing to do this for my phone, so I can fire up my phone, type a domain name and have the phone dial it automatically. Imagine "starbucks.tel" - what number will it return via DNS? Presumably a corporate number. But if you designed the main site right, you could have it so that a person could use subdomains or directories to get the relevant branches: chicago.starbucks.com (or starbucks.com/chicago) could return a page full of hCards with addresses for branches in that city. Then build the client software for the phones which would be able to look for phone numbers on websites and then call them or add them to the address book. This kind of thing is far more useful in my opinion. -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Thu Dec 4 01:40:23 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:40:31 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hrecipe Draft now online *!!!!* In-Reply-To: <9F7FF226-CB3E-468E-9E6B-33073378C4B4@ben-ward.co.uk> Message-ID: hi, On 03.12.08 21:25, "Ben Ward" wrote: > On 3 Dec 2008, at 09:49, Thomas Loertsch wrote: > >> hRecipe is now a draft, linked from the frontpage. time to celebrate >> (a >> little) and scrutinely proofread, critizise and polish the sweet >> little >> bastard... http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe. > > I've already requested that the existing recipe-issues page be fully > updated to track changes and decisions made in the move from Phae and > my brainstorm to this draft. > > As per, new issues should be filed on the recipe-issues page. i took care to document all discussions in the wiki (well, i guess i was a bit sluggish with the last two issues...) - also those discussion i had offline, when i pressured people by personal mail to comment, since they didn't respond to my postings on the list. but i documented that process mostly within the brainstorming page. i was aware that discussions should take place on the mailinglist and i tried to drag them there, but when people respond on the brainstorming page, it doesn't make sense to respond to them again on the mailinglist or on the issues page. of course this is a bit of a mess to follow subsequently, but which public discussion is not ;-) what you're asking for now is to convert those discussions into issues and document them on the issues page - or rather replicate them, since i don't want to edit the brainstorming page. it's a reasonable aim to document the discussions in one place and i hope to get something done by next week, but it will be more of a documentation of the current draft than of the full discussion process of issues and resolutions - which is a bit in contrast to the issues already filed. i hope that's okay for everybody. i'll do what i can ;-) >> a few notes right away: >> >> * i'm not so sure about who is named editor, author etc. please feel >> free to >> change as appropriate > > Phae and I authored one of the original brainstorms, and if that's the > one that this was derived from, I'm happy with the credit. your brainstorming is definitely the base of the current draft. it's about 90% unchanged. > Naming the yourself as editor is fine by me (since you've obviously > just edited this draft together that was my reasoning too > and Frances and I stepped back a while > ago when we couldn't find time to commit to it), so as long as you're > prepared to take on the workload of managing issues, that's fine too. well, if i have to ;-) i certainly won't press for this position but at least for the next 6 months i can assure that i can coordinate the editing process > I'll wait for the issues documentation to be completed and then follow > up. i'll post the list when i'm done with that bye thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From martin at weborganics.co.uk Thu Dec 4 09:10:05 2008 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Thu Dec 4 09:10:24 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend Message-ID: <49380EED.9040100@weborganics.co.uk> Hello All Just a quick note to inform those who are interested hFoaF[1] or Hypertext Friend of a Friend, has been updated to version 0.3, there is also a blog post[2] to accompany this update and a copy and paste demo[3] with a GRDDL Profile [4] Best wishes [1] http://weborganics.co.uk/hFoaF/ [2] http://weborganics.co.uk/articles/show/hypertext-friend-of-a-friend [3] http://weborganics.co.uk/demo/hfoaf.html [4] http://weborganics.co.uk/Profiles/hFoaF.xsl -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Thu Dec 4 11:05:24 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Thu Dec 4 11:05:30 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend Message-ID: <7E185A54-6414-4258-9C21-5B96D994D064@tobyinkster.co.uk> Good work, Martin. As I am rubbish at XSLT, these few notes are mainly from a FOAF perspective: 1. RDF (and thus FOAF, which is an application of RDF) uses URIs to identify virtually everything. (There are exceptions: literals and blank nodes.) What is important for RDF to work is that each distinct resource (i.e. "thing") has a distinct URI. No two resources can share a URI - syntactically there is nothing to prevent them sharing, but semantically it doesn't work - things fall apart when you start feeding your data into any sort of reasoning system. hFoaF, when dealing with XFN input creates RDF triples[1] like this: <#alice> xfn:met . foaf:homepage . Here you are clearly using the same URI to represent both Bob and Bob's web page. What if we added say, a creation date for ? Would that mean that Bob was born on that date? Or perhaps it was the day he first uploaded some HTML to his server? The easy solution is to use the URI to represent Bob's web page only and then choose a different URI for Bob. Choosing a different URI for Bob is pretty easy to do - simply give his web page a prefix or suffix. e.g. you could create these triples: <#alice> xfn:met . foaf:homepage . Where "x-person:" is a randomly made-up, unregistered URI scheme. Using an unregistered, made-up URI scheme is obviously suboptimal though, so if you wanted to get very fancy, you could use Google's (also unregistered, but at least not pulled out of thin air) "sgn:" URI scheme. SG Node Mapper[2] can be used to determine the sgn URI for a person from their web page's URI, but it may be tricky to use it in XSLT. 2. You seem to have rel=author and rev=made back to front. They are not for linking to stuff which you've authored/made; they are for linking *from* stuff that you've authored *to* you! If you want to link from *you* to stuff that you've authored, use rev=author or rel=made. 3. In your example output, your foaf:name is "MartinMcEvoy" (no space). ____ Footnotes: 1. Using Turtle notation: http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/ 2. Google Social Graph Node Mapper: http://code.google.com/p/google-sgnodemapper/ -- Toby A Inkster From tonyscott100 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 5 01:31:14 2008 From: tonyscott100 at yahoo.co.uk (Tony Scott) Date: Fri Dec 5 01:31:17 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] .tel References: Message-ID: <391251.20531.qm@web25908.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Tom I totally agree! ---- Tony Scott http://tonyscott.org.uk | http://uk.wordcamp.org ----- Original Message ---- > From: Tom Morris > To: Microformats Discuss > Sent: Thursday, 4 December, 2008 0:08:11 > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] .tel > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 16:58, Tim White wrote: > > Has anyone seen the upcoming .tel domains (http://telnic.org/)? Seems > > like a perfect spot for hCard. > > > > The whole thing is highly idiotic > and if there's any justice in the world, it'll completely fail and > become the butt of jokes for years to come. If we can steer people > towards using hCard, geo and other open solutions, that would be far > preferable to a poorly thought-out system. Telephony is more like a > protocol than a domain. Can you imagine .email, .irc, .rss or .ssh > TLDs? It's that stupid. > > People should just put a representative hCard on their homepage and > then have a thing to parse it out and dial it. I've been meaning to > build a JavaME thing to do this for my phone, so I can fire up my > phone, type a domain name and have the phone dial it automatically. > > Imagine "starbucks.tel" - what number will it return via DNS? > Presumably a corporate number. But if you designed the main site > right, you could have it so that a person could use subdomains or > directories to get the relevant branches: chicago.starbucks.com (or > starbucks.com/chicago) could return a page full of hCards with > addresses for branches in that city. Then build the client software > for the phones which would be able to look for phone numbers on > websites and then call them or add them to the address book. This kind > of thing is far more useful in my opinion. > > -- > Tom Morris > http://tommorris.org/ > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From martin at weborganics.co.uk Sat Dec 6 07:41:39 2008 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Sat Dec 6 07:48:58 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend In-Reply-To: <7E185A54-6414-4258-9C21-5B96D994D064@tobyinkster.co.uk> References: <7E185A54-6414-4258-9C21-5B96D994D064@tobyinkster.co.uk> Message-ID: <493A9D33.8000009@weborganics.co.uk> Hello Toby Toby A Inkster wrote: > Good work, Martin. As I am rubbish at XSLT, these few notes are mainly > from a FOAF perspective: Thank you :-) > > 1. RDF (and thus FOAF, which is an application of RDF) uses URIs to > identify virtually everything. (There are exceptions: literals and > blank nodes.) What is important for RDF to work is that each distinct > resource (i.e. "thing") has a distinct URI. No two resources can share > a URI - syntactically there is nothing to prevent them sharing, but > semantically it doesn't work - things fall apart when you start > feeding your data into any sort of reasoning system. > Good catch Toby, I meant to fix this, Its fixed now by generating unique rdf:nodeID 's > > 2. You seem to have rel=author and rev=made back to front. They are > not for linking to stuff which you've authored/made; they are for > linking *from* stuff that you've authored *to* you! If you want to > link from *you* to stuff that you've authored, use rev=author or > rel=made. Oh Oh this discussion again, right and wrong in brief I only allowed for rel=author because I was told by the HTML5 WG that that it is the same as rev=made see: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/structured-client-side-storage.html#link-type-author If, I accept that rel=made on my homepage is to link to things I have made the relationship is defined as how THAT page relates to the referencing page example: I made this app would translate as made which is wrong as "someapp" has not made "referencingpage" lets try that with rev instead I made this app would translate as made much better! Think of vote-links[1] and how they work, instead of saying the referencing page is a vote-* , its saying that it has "made", [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links > > 3. In your example output, your foaf:name is "MartinMcEvoy" (no space). Thanks Fixed, the xslt was stripping all spaces Thank you for your valuable feedback. -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Sat Dec 6 08:34:36 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Sat Dec 6 08:34:39 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend Message-ID: <60CC60CC-60EE-4873-A3CE-798C33FEEA4E@tobyinkster.co.uk> Martin McEvoy wrote: > I made this app > > would translate as made > much better! No, it really is the other way around! Take a look at the HTML 3.2 recommendation ? it's the closest thing there is to a spec defining what is meant by 'made'. The section on anchors states that "REV=made is sometimes used to identify the document author, either the author's email address with a mailto URL, or a link to the author's home page." That is, rev=made is used to link from a page to its author, thus rel=made is used to link from an author to a page they made. rel=author/rev=made links from page to author. rev=author/rel=made links from author to page. The way you're interpreting it is as "made by" which is a perfectly natural and sensible interpretation, but wrong according to the specification of the term, and how it's used in the wild. This is a good illustration of why verbs are a bad idea as link types - nouns or adjectives work better. -- Toby A Inkster From martin at weborganics.co.uk Sat Dec 6 09:04:40 2008 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Sat Dec 6 09:04:47 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend In-Reply-To: <60CC60CC-60EE-4873-A3CE-798C33FEEA4E@tobyinkster.co.uk> References: <60CC60CC-60EE-4873-A3CE-798C33FEEA4E@tobyinkster.co.uk> Message-ID: <493AB0A8.6030909@weborganics.co.uk> Toby A Inkster wrote: > Martin McEvoy wrote: > >> I made this app >> >> would translate as made >> much better! > > No, it really is the other way around! Do you think? so the above example would translate as... made change that example to a vote link.... I made this app your interpretation would translate as vote-for Is this correct? [...] > The way you're interpreting it is as "made by" which is a perfectly > natural and sensible interpretation, Which is what I am intending to mean > but wrong according to the specification of the term, and how it's > used in the wild. There is some evidence to say that in the wild most authors use rev=made wrongly > This is a good illustration of why verbs are a bad idea as link types > - nouns or adjectives work better. > Agreed :-) Thanks again Toby. -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Sat Dec 6 09:47:47 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Sat Dec 6 09:47:49 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend Message-ID: This (on ): that page means: made

is voted for by And this: that page means: made

is voted for by VoteLinks is not a good analogy to use for clarifying something in your head though. The definitions of the terms were all confusing from the beginning, and a later attempt to fix them just ended up muddying everything even more. Personally, I have never implemented or used VoteLinks and have no plans to do so in the future. If VoteLinks had been left as originally defined, they might have been slightly more reliable. A better way of clarifying it in your head is to consider that 'made' is the inverse of 'author'. If X made Y, then Y has author X. 'rel=author' is defined in HTML5[1] so that it links from a page to its author; so if 'rel=made' is the inverse, then logically it links from author to page. ____ 1. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/ structured-client-side-storage.html#link-type-author -- Toby A Inkster From jwpadgett at gmail.com Sat Dec 6 18:27:25 2008 From: jwpadgett at gmail.com (Jason Padgett) Date: Sat Dec 6 18:27:32 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCalendar-Recurring Events Help Message-ID: <99B5833E-2AD9-43BD-8EA0-12643B174C03@gmail.com> I'm creating a list of events, but have hit a snag. I have an event that reoccurs every first and third Friday of each month, but I don't see any method of doing this with hCalendar. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance, Jason From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Sun Dec 7 04:29:13 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Sun Dec 7 04:29:15 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCalendar-Recurring Events Help Message-ID: iCalendar does include support for recurring events such as this. hCalendar is, according to its spec, "a 1:1 representation of [...] iCalendar". Thus is can be assumed that it does include support for recurring events, even if the spec is silent on exactly how to mark them up. Because of the fact that hCalendar is so vague about how a number of iCalendar properties should be expressed in HTML, I've put together a completely unofficial, but hopefully helpful draft called "hCalendar 1.1", which you can find here: http://microformats.org/wiki/User:TobyInk/hcalendar-1.1 Now, in iCalendar, the way to express a recurrence of the first and third Friday of every month would be: RRULE:FREQ=MONTHLY;INTERVAL=1;BYDAY=1FR,3FR The hCalendar draft allows two basic ways of marking this up. The first is a clumsy, all-in-one way, but is probably the best supported: the first and third Friday of every month. A slightly nicer way, though one which you'll find less parser support for would be:

On the first and third friday of every month.

Both of these markup styles are supported by Cognition . Perhaps other parser maintainers could reply to this thread to say whether they support either/both. Note that with RRULE you do still need to include a DTSTART (use this to indicate the start date and time of the first event in the sequence) and I'd recommend also including either a DURATION (i.e. the duration of each event) or a DTEND (i.e. the end time of the first event - not the date when you want the recurrence rule to finish). RRULE is a singular property - that is, you can only have one recurrence rule per event, but these rules can get pretty complicated, so do manage to cover the vast majority of cases. Also of interest are RDATE, which allows you to list explicit dates when an event is repeated, and EXDATE and EXRULE which are their counterparts for excluding particular dates. Hope that helps. -- Toby A Inkster From martin at weborganics.co.uk Sun Dec 7 04:45:44 2008 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Sun Dec 7 04:45:51 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hFoaF - Hypertext Friend of a Friend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <493BC578.30008@weborganics.co.uk> Toby A Inkster wrote: > This (on ): > > that page > > means: > > made > is voted for by > > And this: > > that page > > means: > > made > is voted for by OK Toby :-) , lets agree to differ, I think that because rev=made has been so badly abused and its definition in html is unclear compared to the foaf definition of made, I have dropped rev=made completely, (it makes my head hurt thinking about it), In favour of rev=author which is used to link from your homepage to things that you have authored. Thanks -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ From mdagn at spraci.com Sun Dec 7 14:47:15 2008 From: mdagn at spraci.com (MichaelMD) Date: Sun Dec 7 14:48:20 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCalendar-Recurring Events Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1228690035.6183.56.camel@droid2> On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 12:29 +0000, Toby A Inkster wrote: > iCalendar does include support for recurring events such as this. > hCalendar is, according to its spec, "a 1:1 representation of [...] > iCalendar". Thus is can be assumed that it does include support for > recurring events, even if the spec is silent on exactly how to mark > them up. > > Because of the fact that hCalendar is so vague about how a number of > iCalendar properties should be expressed in HTML, I've put together a > completely unofficial, but hopefully helpful draft called "hCalendar > 1.1", which you can find here: > > http://microformats.org/wiki/User:TobyInk/hcalendar-1.1 > > Now, in iCalendar, the way to express a recurrence of the first and > third Friday of every month would be: > > RRULE:FREQ=MONTHLY;INTERVAL=1;BYDAY=1FR,3FR > > The hCalendar draft allows two basic ways of marking this up. The > first is a clumsy, all-in-one way, but is probably the best supported: > > the > first and third Friday of every month. > > A slightly nicer way, though one which you'll find less parser > support for would be: > >

> On the first > and third friday > of every > month. >

> > Both of these markup styles are supported by Cognition buzzword.org.uk/cognition/>. Perhaps other parser maintainers could > reply to this thread to say whether they support either/both. The perl parser I wrote a few years ago (still unfinished but nonetheless very useful! - based around a tagsoup parser rather than an xml parser so that it can cope with malformed real world data), doesn't yet support recurring events rules. I'm also a little wary of encouraging people to use recurring events markup or features because from my experience in running an events site people often like to post weekly events such as club nights but then forget to come back and edit/delete then when the details change or the night stops happening! (leaving their outdated listing hanging around long afterwoods - not good!) This an issue with human behaviour rather than one of software or markup but it does make me a little wary of anything listed as a recurring event on any site if the event looks like it was added a while ago. From knownasilya at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 14:05:48 2008 From: knownasilya at gmail.com (ilya radchenko) Date: Mon Dec 8 14:05:53 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] dl displaying different, but markup is the same Message-ID: http://burstcreations.com The items in question are the dl lists under each portfolio item. The first and last dl display properly, but the ones in between do not. The second one has an extra dd, but the third one has no such thing. And both of them are not returning over to a new line.. Any help is welcome. Thanks! From mephtu at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 17:32:45 2008 From: mephtu at gmail.com (Samuel Richter) Date: Mon Dec 8 17:32:48 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? In-Reply-To: <1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <772a8cc20811220613h53afc49bx8d735858c7335aef@mail.gmail.com> <21e523c20811220645w3aaf3f28vc9e8433db841c234@mail.gmail.com> <772a8cc20811281348g171a235cxa1ee5b772a9c8e19@mail.gmail.com> <1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> Your argument of a net-positive effect is compelling but, it makes sense to me to deal with the issues as they present themselves, perception being one of them. After all, the greater the net-positive, the more compelling microformats are to use. I feel we are not addressing the issues raised by hcard, specifically. Just saying they have a net-positive effect does not warm my heart. The atom bomb had a net-positive effect, too and now we're talking global disarmament. Cheers, -mephtu On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Tantek Celik wrote: > Such companies are already going to far greater extents to scrape anything resembling contact information (without really caring about false positives etc since as your quotes point out quantity is their game) from text, HTML etc on the web using text entity recognizers etc. > > As long as you only markup already public information with hCard (or any other microformat), the effect is negligible on such companies, while it enables and benefits users and developers of user-centric apps, thus providing a net positive effect. > > Tantek > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Samuel Richter" > > Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:48:38 > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? > > > How's this...? > > Using gmail, I happened to spy a list of supported links, here's one of them: > > Custom Web Scraping > Data Extraction & Mining Service > Buy up to 20,000 Records for $75.00 > RightHandMarketingManagement.com > > This reinforces the seriousness of the issue in my mind. If hCards > are used as indiscriminately as the data in these websites, it would > just pipeline the same information to companies of this ilk. > > -Sam > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:45 AM, David Janes wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Samuel Richter wrote: >>> >>> I read some blog posts this morning on microformats and a common >>> concern (and I feel a legitimate one) is the "scraping of hCard's from >>> web sites for future generations of spammers." I believe that fear, >>> if left unaddressed, will kill the microformat effort. Has there been >>> any discussion of this? >> >> You weren't going to fill us in on the URLs, were you? >> >> >> >> -- >> David Janes >> Mercenary Programmer >> http://code.davidjanes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Mon Dec 8 17:41:45 2008 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Mon Dec 8 17:42:25 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard issues In-Reply-To: <772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> References: <772a8cc20811220613h53afc49bx8d735858c7335aef@mail.gmail.com> <21e523c20811220645w3aaf3f28vc9e8433db841c234@mail.gmail.com> <772a8cc20811281348g171a235cxa1ee5b772a9c8e19@mail.gmail.com> <1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1552603740-1228786939-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-551463920-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please add any hCard issues you feel have yet to be addressed to http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues or feel free to add " * +1 [[User:yourwikiusernamehere]]" to any current issue(s)/resolution(s) you feel strongly about. Please also refrain from making reductio-ad-absurdum analogy arguments ("atom bomb") as they, just like instances of Godwin's law, do very little to constructively advance a discussion. Thanks, Tantek -----Original Message----- From: "Samuel Richter" Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:32:45 To: ; Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? Your argument of a net-positive effect is compelling but, it makes sense to me to deal with the issues as they present themselves, perception being one of them. After all, the greater the net-positive, the more compelling microformats are to use. I feel we are not addressing the issues raised by hcard, specifically. Just saying they have a net-positive effect does not warm my heart. The atom bomb had a net-positive effect, too and now we're talking global disarmament. Cheers, -mephtu On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Tantek Celik wrote: > Such companies are already going to far greater extents to scrape anything resembling contact information (without really caring about false positives etc since as your quotes point out quantity is their game) from text, HTML etc on the web using text entity recognizers etc. > > As long as you only markup already public information with hCard (or any other microformat), the effect is negligible on such companies, while it enables and benefits users and developers of user-centric apps, thus providing a net positive effect. > > Tantek > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Samuel Richter" > > Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:48:38 > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? > > > How's this...? > > Using gmail, I happened to spy a list of supported links, here's one of them: > > Custom Web Scraping > Data Extraction & Mining Service > Buy up to 20,000 Records for $75.00 > RightHandMarketingManagement.com > > This reinforces the seriousness of the issue in my mind. If hCards > are used as indiscriminately as the data in these websites, it would > just pipeline the same information to companies of this ilk. > > -Sam > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:45 AM, David Janes wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Samuel Richter wrote: >>> >>> I read some blog posts this morning on microformats and a common >>> concern (and I feel a legitimate one) is the "scraping of hCard's from >>> web sites for future generations of spammers." I believe that fear, >>> if left unaddressed, will kill the microformat effort. Has there been >>> any discussion of this? >> >> You weren't going to fill us in on the URLs, were you? >> >> >> >> -- >> David Janes >> Mercenary Programmer >> http://code.davidjanes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From mephtu at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 17:56:34 2008 From: mephtu at gmail.com (Samuel Richter) Date: Mon Dec 8 17:56:37 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Code microformat? In-Reply-To: <298E0B80-6B37-4522-8002-D4D9EE417CCD@randomchaos.com> References: <0D4E77B4-B2C9-4AB9-AA65-1C5B3FE5A98F@tobyinkster.co.uk> <772a8cc20811220609l3b3225b5sc246184d4725bdb3@mail.gmail.com> <298E0B80-6B37-4522-8002-D4D9EE417CCD@randomchaos.com> Message-ID: <772a8cc20812081756g76ec9bdaja83a52a9973a6415@mail.gmail.com> I will try this again giving a scenario... Joe Cool, adept coder, releases a project, AlphaBUG, to the web on the code hosting site, www.attaboy.com. Every time Joe releases a new update, he also publishes an RSS/Atom article describing. The problem for Joe, who wants to empower AlphaBUG's stakeholders, knows that his program 1) doesn't exist in a vacuum-it's dependent on other libraries 2) isn't the only program his stakeholders use-they don't want to be encumbered by having to manually install each update 3) will have frequent updates as he is prone to releasing updates often. What Joe hasn't thought of but, what he *needs* is a microformat that will markup all of this information in the vehicle of RSS/Atom. So, when I read Joe's feed about the latest update of AlphaBUG on www.attaboy.com, by a micromiracle I am looking at not only release notes but library and version dependencies, a hyperlink to download the package and version information of this update (is it major, minor, bugfix, etc.), etc. All of this readily extractable from the RSS/Atom feed because it has been tagged using a microformat. Then, because this information can be extracted from the feed, I use a platform installer, which I use to install all packages that have a microformat-encoded RSS/Atom feed and have it install the update in a predetermined directory selecting the version that I have specified by an update policy. In other words, Joe 's AlphaBUG has been steered onto the paved highway of automated updates. Windows has it, why can't there be a generic installer/auto-updater for open-source. Whew. -mephtu On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Scott Reynen wrote: > On [Nov 22], at [ Nov 22] 7:09 , Samuel Richter wrote: > >> It seems to me that both hAtom and hDOAP present limitations of a sort >> when it comes to providing feeds for software updates. On the one >> hand with hAtom, you have a generic microformat with no way of >> identifying any content beyond it merely being feed content and with >> hDOAP, you have no mechanism for providing update information. Do you >> see the gap I'm trying to show? > > > Microformats are made to be modular. Using both together would seem to > remove the gap you've described. But as David said, because this is all > very abstract, it's hard to tell if this would actually meet your needs. > > Peace, > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From mdagn at spraci.com Mon Dec 8 19:18:21 2008 From: mdagn at spraci.com (Michael MD) Date: Mon Dec 8 19:20:06 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? References: <772a8cc20811220613h53afc49bx8d735858c7335aef@mail.gmail.com><21e523c20811220645w3aaf3f28vc9e8433db841c234@mail.gmail.com><772a8cc20811281348g171a235cxa1ee5b772a9c8e19@mail.gmail.com><1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003b01c959ac$cdb24870$096bacca@COMCEN> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Tantek Celik > wrote: >> Such companies are already going to far greater extents to scrape >> anything resembling contact information (without really caring about >> false >>positives etc since as your quotes point out quantity is their >> game) from text, HTML etc on the web using text entity recognizers etc. Spammers have been scraping email addresses from websites for years without needing to look at hCard. Giving users options to choose what is displayed on their profiles sounds like the way to go. (whether or not those profiles are marked up with hCard) From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Tue Dec 9 07:02:00 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Tue Dec 9 07:37:57 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hrecipe Draft now online *!!!!* In-Reply-To: <9F7FF226-CB3E-468E-9E6B-33073378C4B4@ben-ward.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi, I moved some topics from the brainstorming page to the closed section of the issues page as they had developed into rather elaborate discussions and materialized into the draft. I also added some more comments to the draft and reworded/reorganized things a little, housekeeping stuff. So, feel free to review now :-) On the issues side, ingredients and ingredient turned out to still be controversial. Please have a look everybody interested at . I added my comments as well. Since this is a rather prominent issue I hope we will find a resolution soon. Lively discussion welcomed! Cheers, Thomas P.s.: I changed my signature on the wiki to 'TomLurge' since I found 'ThomasLoertsch' to be annoyingly long. Phonetically they're the same though! On 03.12.08 21:25, "Ben Ward" wrote: > On 3 Dec 2008, at 09:49, Thomas Loertsch wrote: > >> hRecipe is now a draft, linked from the frontpage. time to celebrate >> (a >> little) and scrutinely proofread, critizise and polish the sweet >> little >> bastard... http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe. > > I've already requested that the existing recipe-issues page be fully > updated to track changes and decisions made in the move from Phae and > my brainstorm to this draft. > > As per, new issues should be filed on the recipe-issues page. > >> a few notes right away: >> >> * i'm not so sure about who is named editor, author etc. please feel >> free to >> change as appropriate > > Phae and I authored one of the original brainstorms, and if that's the > one that this was derived from, I'm happy with the credit. > > Naming the yourself as editor is fine by me (since you've obviously > just edited this draft together and Frances and I stepped back a while > ago when we couldn't find time to commit to it), so as long as you're > prepared to take on the workload of managing issues, that's fine too. > > I'll wait for the issues documentation to be completed and then follow > up. > > Thanks, > > Ben > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From mephtu at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 18:24:48 2008 From: mephtu at gmail.com (Samuel Richter) Date: Thu Dec 11 18:24:54 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard issues In-Reply-To: <1552603740-1228786939-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-551463920-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <772a8cc20811220613h53afc49bx8d735858c7335aef@mail.gmail.com> <21e523c20811220645w3aaf3f28vc9e8433db841c234@mail.gmail.com> <772a8cc20811281348g171a235cxa1ee5b772a9c8e19@mail.gmail.com> <1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> <1552603740-1228786939-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-551463920-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <772a8cc20812111824o3275a5afla6fc4e2f4268e8ac@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Tantek Celik wrote: > Please add any hCard issues you feel have yet to be addressed to > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues > > or feel free to add > > " * +1 [[User:yourwikiusernamehere]]" > > to any current issue(s)/resolution(s) you feel strongly about. I will. > Please also refrain from making reductio-ad-absurdum analogy arguments ("atom bomb") as they, just like instances of Godwin's law, do very little to constructively advance a discussion. Let me just say that I don't want to engage in a private debate. I feel the members of the mailing list would benefit more if you attacked my argument in public [cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdem]. Thanks, -Sam > Thanks, > > Tantek > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Samuel Richter" > > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:32:45 > To: ; Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? > > > Your argument of a net-positive effect is compelling but, it makes > sense to me to deal with the issues as they present themselves, > perception being one of them. After all, the greater the > net-positive, the more compelling microformats are to use. I feel we > are not addressing the issues raised by hcard, specifically. Just > saying they have a net-positive effect does not warm my heart. The > atom bomb had a net-positive effect, too and now we're talking global > disarmament. > > Cheers, > > -mephtu > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Tantek Celik wrote: >> Such companies are already going to far greater extents to scrape anything resembling contact information (without really caring about false positives etc since as your quotes point out quantity is their game) from text, HTML etc on the web using text entity recognizers etc. >> >> As long as you only markup already public information with hCard (or any other microformat), the effect is negligible on such companies, while it enables and benefits users and developers of user-centric apps, thus providing a net positive effect. >> >> Tantek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Samuel Richter" >> >> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:48:38 >> To: Microformats Discuss >> Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? >> >> >> How's this...? >> >> Using gmail, I happened to spy a list of supported links, here's one of them: >> >> Custom Web Scraping >> Data Extraction & Mining Service >> Buy up to 20,000 Records for $75.00 >> RightHandMarketingManagement.com >> >> This reinforces the seriousness of the issue in my mind. If hCards >> are used as indiscriminately as the data in these websites, it would >> just pipeline the same information to companies of this ilk. >> >> -Sam >> >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:45 AM, David Janes wrote: >>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Samuel Richter wrote: >>>> >>>> I read some blog posts this morning on microformats and a common >>>> concern (and I feel a legitimate one) is the "scraping of hCard's from >>>> web sites for future generations of spammers." I believe that fear, >>>> if left unaddressed, will kill the microformat effort. Has there been >>>> any discussion of this? >>> >>> You weren't going to fill us in on the URLs, were you? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Janes >>> Mercenary Programmer >>> http://code.davidjanes.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microformats-discuss mailing list >>> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >>> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From mephtu at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 18:29:17 2008 From: mephtu at gmail.com (Samuel Richter) Date: Thu Dec 11 18:29:19 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard slowing adoption of microformats? In-Reply-To: <003b01c959ac$cdb24870$096bacca@COMCEN> References: <772a8cc20811220613h53afc49bx8d735858c7335aef@mail.gmail.com> <21e523c20811220645w3aaf3f28vc9e8433db841c234@mail.gmail.com> <772a8cc20811281348g171a235cxa1ee5b772a9c8e19@mail.gmail.com> <1925086809-1227913130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1730898643-@bxe346.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <772a8cc20812081732pe24d098v873bfce29205b412@mail.gmail.com> <003b01c959ac$cdb24870$096bacca@COMCEN> Message-ID: <772a8cc20812111829q6c8a9126vf19f14c979dbb6dd@mail.gmail.com> I've been asked by Tantek not to make "reductio-ad-absurdem" analogies but, I'm not convinced what I'm going to say is a reductio ad absurdem argument as I think it exposes how we are thinking about the issue at hand. So, this is the question I'm asking myself: Thieves have been picking locks for centuries, should we give them the keys, too? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Michael MD wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Tantek Celik >> wrote: >>> >>> Such companies are already going to far greater extents to scrape >>> anything resembling contact information (without really caring about false >>> >>positives etc since as your quotes point out quantity is their game) from >>> text, HTML etc on the web using text entity recognizers etc. > > Spammers have been scraping email addresses from websites for years without > needing to look at hCard. > > Giving users options to choose what is displayed on their profiles sounds > like the way to go. > (whether or not those profiles are marked up with hCard) > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From james at atomless.com Sat Dec 13 06:19:43 2008 From: james at atomless.com (James Tindall) Date: Sat Dec 13 06:20:10 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme Message-ID: <4943C47F.4090305@atomless.com> I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that implements hatom. The microformats transformer Optimus (http://microformatique.com/optimus) seems to be able to seccessfully transform the content to Atom format but the microformatic hatom to atom parser fails. I'm wondering if this is due to some of the invalid markup that I know is generated by the tumblr system but is beyond the control of any theme or if there are any problems with the way I've implemented hatom? If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is hosted here: http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the theme is here: http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master james -- James Tindall http://jamestindall.info/ From davidjanes at blogmatrix.com Sat Dec 13 06:56:09 2008 From: davidjanes at blogmatrix.com (David Janes) Date: Sat Dec 13 07:22:50 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme In-Reply-To: <4943C47F.4090305@atomless.com> References: <4943C47F.4090305@atomless.com> Message-ID: <21e523c20812130656m3c43cb48ic67752382e9222bb@mail.gmail.com> Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line: document.write('