natural language hCards (was Re: [uf-discuss] web programmers vs web designers and microformats)

[David Janes]

I think we're all on the same page we're we'd like to see uFs go, more
or less. My issue -- re:ing Jeremy Keith, and Kevin's related post a
few minutes ago -- is that we're all being terribly clever. But to
repurpose a phrase, "there's lots of room at the bottom": I'm
interested also in seeing where "Joe" can use this.

Not so much, though, that I'm going to get in fights or lengthy
arguments about it: my constitution can't handle the stress any more.
That's why a lot of my posts have been of an FYI nature rather than
argumentative. I'll be up for verbal fights at Foo though ;-)

Regards, etc...

On Jan 4, 2008 6:19 PM, Tantek Çelik <tantek at cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On 1/4/08 2:23 PM, "David Janes" <davidjanes at blogmatrix.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 4, 2008 2:45 PM, Tantek Çelik <tantek at cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> The fact that hCard is *the* #1 format for publishing information about a
> >> person on the Web would seem to refute that.
> >>
> >> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-supporting-user-profiles
> >
> > "Profiles" is not the problem that Andy & Ryan C. are talking about:
> > they're talking about using hCard in casual references to people and
> > places on the web. For example, on your blog, you've coded:
> >
> > | My friend <a href="http://juliettemelton.com/">Julie</a> and I
> > thought this up when discussing
> > | end of year rituals, and threw it together quickly and roughly  in a
> > matter of days (like the first BarCamp).
> > | We invited a bunch of people (also coarsely brainstormed, certainly
> > not comprehensive), a few of
> > | whom were actually available to attend, and shared an incredible two
> > days of reflection
> > |  (what <em>did</em> you do) and projection (what are you <em>going
> > to</em> do).
>
> Ah ok, this is what Jeremy Keith refers to as "natural language hCards",
> wherein you simply markup inline references to people accordingly.  He's got
> some really good examples of this, including mixes of nicknames etc.
>
> Brief section on this in hcard-authoring:
>
> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring#Natural_language_hCard
>
> which references Jeremy's post on the subject:
>
> http://adactio.com/journal/1122/
>
> I've just added a bit more to that section based on Jeremy's real world
> markup of "Malarkey" in his blog post to illustrate further.
>
>
> > They're suggesting that you're much more likely to provide semantic
> > information about "Julie" if you were willing to do the simple
> > operating of adding (for example) 'class='vcard'" to the A tag.
>
> That being said, good point, I should markup Julie as such in that blog
> post.  Updated.
>
> What really gets people to use more markup in blog posts though, is the
> little creator/style buttons that often line up just above the top of a blog
> post editing textarea for creating links, lists etc.
>
> What we need is a "person" button (perhaps with an icon similar to the icon
> next to your username when you are logged into the microformats wiki) which
> simply inserts the markup for you, or better yet, lets you pick someone from
> your address book, and then inserts an inline hCard with their name, URL
> (and perhaps even XFN relationship to them) for you.  That little bit of
> extra markup pales in comparison to the typical prose of a blog post.
>
> Perhaps we could ask various blogging tool makers to add such a feature.
> Similarly for events.
>
> I've noted this in the plugins / web-apps sections of hCard advocacy:
>
> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-advocacy#WYSIWYG_buttons
>
>
> > Regards, etc...
>
>
> Thanks again as always David, you've raised and clarified good points.
>
> Tantek
>
>
>
> On 1/4/08 2:50 PM, "Kevin Marks" <kevinmarks at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In semantic HTML, the right way to do this would be to use <cite>
> > around the name:
> > <cite>Julie</cite>
> > so doing
> > <cite class="hcard" ><a href="http://juliettemelton.com/" class="url
> > uid fn" rel="friend">Julie</a></cite>
> >
> > which has an implied nickname, and adds the XFN for "my friend"
>
> I'm not really quoting or citing Julie for saying something, so I'm not sure
> that <cite> is appropriate in this case.  However, the markup I ended up
> using is close to what you suggested.  Here it is with white-space added for
> readability:
>
> <span class="vcard">
>  <abbr class="fn" title="Juliette Melton">
>   <a class="url nickname" rel="friend" href="http://juliettemelton.com/">
>    Julie</a>
>  </abbr>
> </span>
>
> I've added this example to the hcard-authoring natural language hCard
> section as well.
>
>
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-- 
David Janes
Founder, BlogMatrix
http://www.blogmatrix.com
http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com