From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Wed Oct 1 15:02:50 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Wed Oct 1 15:03:00 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Greetings all - Awhile back, Andre Luis posted some statistics on the number of Microformatted content out in the wild: > 1. hCard - 1,220,000,000 (+70,000,000) > 2. hCalendar - 89,200,000 (+4,500,000) > 3. hReview - 46,600,000 (+3,300,000) > 4. hAtom - 300,000,000 (-4,000,000) ops... > 5. xfn - 259,000,000 pages (-5,000,000) ops... What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate Microformats as such? Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" or "can you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" Thanks, Karsten From brian.suda at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 15:34:37 2008 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Wed Oct 1 15:34:41 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> On 10/1/08, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate Microformats as such? --- Both technorati's pingerati and alexa were good sources of data. Yahoo's search monkey allows you to style search output, but i don't think the microformatted data is directly exposed. > Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" or "can you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" --- that's a good question! I know there has been some effort to make microformats lower-case 'm' as well. You might also consider adding that question to the FAQs page, then we can all work on an answer together http://microformats.org/wiki/faq or possibly start a new page http://microformats.org/wiki/usage (maybe)? to help describe how to, or how freely you can, and in what context the term 'microformat' can be used. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From tdrake at yahoo-inc.com Thu Oct 2 02:18:45 2008 From: tdrake at yahoo-inc.com (Ted Drake) Date: Thu Oct 2 02:18:50 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007901c9246f$df98e980$2bdf4c0a@ds.corp.yahoo.com> Search monkey provides hcard and I believe hevent directly to the developer. It's a great use of microformats. Ted -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Brian Suda Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:35 AM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats On 10/1/08, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate Microformats as such? --- Both technorati's pingerati and alexa were good sources of data. Yahoo's search monkey allows you to style search output, but i don't think the microformatted data is directly exposed. > Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" or "can you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" --- that's a good question! I know there has been some effort to make microformats lower-case 'm' as well. You might also consider adding that question to the FAQs page, then we can all work on an answer together http://microformats.org/wiki/faq or possibly start a new page http://microformats.org/wiki/usage (maybe)? to help describe how to, or how freely you can, and in what context the term 'microformat' can be used. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From richard at cyganiak.de Thu Oct 2 04:42:14 2008 From: richard at cyganiak.de (Richard Cyganiak) Date: Thu Oct 2 04:42:21 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:02, Karsten Januszewski wrote: >> 1. hCard - 1,220,000,000 (+70,000,000) >> 2. hCalendar - 89,200,000 (+4,500,000) >> 3. hReview - 46,600,000 (+3,300,000) >> 4. hAtom - 300,000,000 (-4,000,000) ops... >> 5. xfn - 259,000,000 pages (-5,000,000) ops... > > What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate > Microformats as such? There's also http://sindice.com, which indexes microformats, RDFa and RDF/XML. You can search for "format:XFN", "format:HCARD", format:MICROFORMAT" and look at the result count to get a feel for the number of pages in the index. Obviously, Sindice knows about a much smaller part of the Web than the numbers you quoted above. Best, Richard > > > Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word > "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" > or "can you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" > > Thanks, > Karsten > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Thu Oct 2 05:00:56 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Thu Oct 2 06:46:18 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe -brainstorming and issues refactoring Message-ID: Hi, following Tantek's advice on how to garner more interest for my recent submissions to hRecipe I created a seperate issues page and made some changes to brainstorming - most of them rather cosmetic, but you better check. I also added most of the suggestions and comments that I had posted on this list last week and on which feedback would still be very welcome! Thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Thu Oct 2 10:04:03 2008 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Thu Oct 2 10:04:16 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: <007901c9246f$df98e980$2bdf4c0a@ds.corp.yahoo.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> <007901c9246f$df98e980$2bdf4c0a@ds.corp.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2 Oct 2008, at 02:18, Ted Drake wrote: > Search monkey provides hcard and I believe hevent directly to the > developer. > It's a great use of microformats. SearchMonkey parses microformats and associates that data with search results, but at this point the data is not queryable. (e.g. you can't search for ?pages with an hatom published date of today? or ?pages containing an event located in London?). You can only access that info once you have the results of a more conventional search query. SM is still excellent, I just mean to clarify that it is not an indexer of microformats. B -----Original Message----- > From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org > [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of > Brian > Suda > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:35 AM > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats > > On 10/1/08, Karsten Januszewski > wrote: >> What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate >> Microformats > as such? > > --- Both technorati's pingerati and alexa were good sources of data. > Yahoo's search monkey allows you to style search output, but i don't > think the microformatted data is directly exposed. > >> Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word > "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" > or "can > you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" > > --- that's a good question! I know there has been some effort to make > microformats lower-case 'm' as well. > > You might also consider adding that question to the FAQs page, then we > can all work on an answer together > > http://microformats.org/wiki/faq > > or possibly start a new page > > http://microformats.org/wiki/usage (maybe)? > > to help describe how to, or how freely you can, and in what context > the term 'microformat' can be used. > > -brian > > -- > brian suda > http://suda.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From robertc at gmail.com Fri Oct 3 05:15:10 2008 From: robertc at gmail.com (Rob Crowther) Date: Fri Oct 3 05:15:45 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> <007901c9246f$df98e980$2bdf4c0a@ds.corp.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3ce2ebd20810030515k317145ebl407b8ee8b9d9b47@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/2 Ben Ward : > you can't search for 'pages with an hatom published date of today' or 'pages containing an > event located in London' > You can make the search results include only pages with particular microformats on them using some of the searchmonkey backend, eg. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=searchmonkeyid%3Acom.yahoo.uf.hcard%20rob%20crowther So your second example would be: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=searchmonkeyid%3Acom.yahoo.uf.hcalendar%20London Though you're correct that there isn't a way to reason with the data in the query ('events in London in October 2008'). I get the following: 1 - 10 of 1,310,000,000 for searchmonkeyid:com.yahoo.uf.hcard 1 - 10 of 46,500,000 for searchmonkeyid:com.yahoo.uf.hcalendar 1 - 10 of 330,000,000 for searchmonkeyid:com.yahoo.uf.hatom Of course, this could include duplicates and have other issues which make it less than completely accurate, but I guess that's par for the course? Rob From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Fri Oct 3 10:19:16 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Fri Oct 3 10:19:21 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats In-Reply-To: <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16311@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <21e770780810011534v76d475a1i9300ee8274865425@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303A16A6A@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thanks all for your responses. Very helpful. Also, I've updated the faq with my take on the usage of the term Microformat... Regards, Karsten -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Brian Suda Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 3:35 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] indexing microformats On 10/1/08, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > What tool or services are out there that index and tabulate Microformats as such? --- Both technorati's pingerati and alexa were good sources of data. Yahoo's search monkey allows you to style search output, but i don't think the microformatted data is directly exposed. > Another question: how do people feel about the use of the word "Microformat" as a verb or adjective, aka "microformatted content" or "can you please Microformat that page with an hCard?" --- that's a good question! I know there has been some effort to make microformats lower-case 'm' as well. You might also consider adding that question to the FAQs page, then we can all work on an answer together http://microformats.org/wiki/faq or possibly start a new page http://microformats.org/wiki/usage (maybe)? to help describe how to, or how freely you can, and in what context the term 'microformat' can be used. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From csarven at gmail.com Fri Oct 3 21:29:48 2008 From: csarven at gmail.com (Sarven Capadisli) Date: Fri Oct 3 21:29:51 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] User comment entries Message-ID: Hi all, here is what I'm thinking about user comments: A user comment (e.g., in blogs, wikis, forms) can be marked as an hAtom [1] since it has a similar content pattern. A way to differentiate an hEntry (e.g., a blog post) from another hEntry (e.g., a user comment) can be done reusing "in-replies-to" [2] from Atom Threading Extensions [3]. It provides a mechanism to indicate that an entry is a response to another resource. rel="in-repl-to" can indicate that the current hEntry is a reply to another hEntry and has a reference point @href: Parent hEntries that use rel="in-reply-to" can be considered as a comment entry in response to a parent entry in the threaded conversation (e.g., in blogs, wikis, forms). hEntries that are chronologically listed can all use rel="in-repl-to" and refer to the root hEntry (e.g., blog post, form post) By reusing in-reply-to , we can solve the microformats representation for user comments [4], [5], [6]. I've put the above into hatom-brainstorming in the Wiki [7]. What do you think? [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4685#section-3 [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4685 [4] http://microformats.org/wiki/mfcomment [5] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcomment [6] http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-brainstorming [7] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming#User_comment_entries Sarven Capadisli http://www.csarven.ca From csarven at gmail.com Sat Oct 4 15:12:57 2008 From: csarven at gmail.com (Sarven Capadisli) Date: Sat Oct 4 15:13:01 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Re: User comment entries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Apologies for some of the obvious typos in my previous email. If it may have caused any confusion, please see the Wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming#User_comment_entries Thanks, -Sarven On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Sarven Capadisli wrote: > Hi all, here is what I'm thinking about user comments: > > A user comment (e.g., in blogs, wikis, forms) can be marked as an > hAtom [1] since it has a similar content pattern. A way to > differentiate an hEntry (e.g., a blog post) from another hEntry (e.g., > a user comment) can be done reusing "in-replies-to" [2] from Atom > Threading Extensions [3]. It provides a mechanism to indicate that an > entry is a response to another resource. > > rel="in-repl-to" can indicate that the current hEntry is a reply to > another hEntry and has a reference point @href: > Parent > > hEntries that use rel="in-reply-to" can be considered as a comment > entry in response to a parent entry in the threaded conversation > (e.g., in blogs, wikis, forms). > > hEntries that are chronologically listed can all use rel="in-repl-to" > and refer to the root hEntry (e.g., blog post, form post) > > By reusing in-reply-to , we can solve the microformats representation > for user comments [4], [5], [6]. > > I've put the above into hatom-brainstorming in the Wiki [7]. > > What do you think? > > [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom > [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4685#section-3 > [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4685 > [4] http://microformats.org/wiki/mfcomment > [5] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcomment > [6] http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-brainstorming > [7] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming#User_comment_entries > > Sarven Capadisli > http://www.csarven.ca > From erikh at ethicalspender.org Wed Oct 8 18:49:10 2008 From: erikh at ethicalspender.org (Erik Hermansen) Date: Wed Oct 8 18:49:15 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Request for feedback: Using hReview with barcode-scanning mobile devices. Message-ID: <774005280810081849v24f02a4exd022f2d9e464465@mail.gmail.com> Hello! My group is putting together a system specification, called "IPORR", that works like this: 1. A webmaster (or other person editing HTML content) puts hReviews on his website that have a few extra requirements for their formatting beyond what hReview specifies. 2. The webmaster notifies us that he has these IPORR-friendly hReviews on his site. 3. We crawl the website, generate an index to hReviews, and make that index publicly accessible through a REST interface. 4. People come to our website where the available hReview sources are categorized and choose the ones they like. 5. Those people's mobile devices are configured to listen to the chosen hReview sources. 6. When the people are out shopping, they scan barcodes for products in which they interested. 7. hReviews from chosen sources download from the internet and onto their mobile devices, giving them immediate advice on spending decisions. I've completed instructions for the webmaster to use in publishing an IPORR-friendly hReview. They can be found at this URL: http://ethicalspender.org/articles/howtopublishyourreviews You might be wary of an "embrace and extend" tactic creating lots of nasty, incompatible hReview mutants. But keep in mind we are just adding extra restrictions for what our system would accept, so any "IPORR" hReview is 100% compatible with the hReview spec. To summarize what makes an hReview usable for IPORR: * The "item info" field is limited to identifying a product or organization. A product is identified with a GTIN URN. An organization (business, nonprofit, governmental) is identified with a website URL. The idea is to narrow down the number of ways the target of the rating can be identified so that it is practical to perform lookups. This is done so that we can match one or more hReviews to the digits pulled from a product's barcode scan. * The "type" field is either "product" or "url". * The "rating" field is required, and some rough guidelines are given for normalizing the numeric value. This is required because the intended applications will need to provide a single indicator of whether a consumer should buy something or not--a number between 1 and 5 shown on a tiny screen. Or maybe the consumer doesn't even look at the screen and he just hears an audio cue. * The "dtreviewed" field is required. With hReviews affected people's buying decisions so directly, it becomes more important to limit the influence of obsolete information. * The "summary" field is a brief justification for the value of the numeric "rating" field. * The "description" field is a more complete explanation of the numeric "rating" field. I would sincerely appreciate any feedback, particularly if I'm not promoting good use of the hReview format. It would be better to work out the kinks in my publishing instructions now than to have a bunch of people making hReviews in a way that needs to be corrected later. I'm happy to discuss any aspect of what we're doing as well. This is not a promote-and-run post--I'll be checking back for responses and reply on the list. -Erik Hermansen President, Ethical Spender erikh@ethicalspender.org http://ethicalspender.org From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Thu Oct 9 03:31:12 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Thu Oct 9 03:31:40 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to propose the development of an RDFa serialization of Recipe. I'd like to extend Recipe to become: * Recipe, the vocabulary * hRecipe, the Microformat serialization of that vocabulary * aRecipe, the RDFa serialization. The motivation for this has both a vocabulary side and a syntax side. Let's start technically... I don't want to open some microformats versus RDFa debate here, since they both have there validity: while Microformats are a good 80/20-solution for simple usecases where things should be moving smooth and fast, RDFa provides means for more complex situations. I guess this analysis is already commen sense. It just happens that right now I'm working on a problem where I could very well use the extensibility of RDFa. The vocabulary side of the motivation of this proposal: I was looking for a recipe format and found that (h)Recipe is the most mature format around on the web. After 3 posts in about 5 weeks to this list and very few replies I'm a little less enthusiastic about the community backing than I was in the beginning but I guess it's just normal that interest in some specific format comes and goes and development proceeds in waves. I just hope I won't have to wait too long before some more people take up interest again so that we can have a nice and productive discussion, come to some conclusions and move things forward ;-) Anyway I like the microformats way of developing formats. It provides the chance to develop formats of reasonable complexity, with good standing and community backing, but without the overhead of some ISOish process. That's very attractive and I don't see a similar process for RDFa (which is no surprise since RDFa concentrates on developing a purely technical solution for integrating existing vocabularies in the web). That's where things come together for me: technically I need the extensibility of RDFa, vocabulary-wise I need the community process established by microformats.org. So why not develop a vocabulary and two serializations in parallel? An RDFa-serialization isn't much work to do, the hard part is the vocabulary and that's the same for both serializations, RDFa and microformat. Basically it would just mean that we give the RDFa-serialization a nice home on the web, side by side with the microformat-serialization, improving interoperabilty and reuse. Any thoughts? Thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From tom at tommorris.org Thu Oct 9 04:01:42 2008 From: tom at tommorris.org (Tom Morris) Date: Thu Oct 9 04:01:46 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Thomas Loertsch wrote: > That's where things come together for me: technically I need the > extensibility of RDFa, vocabulary-wise I need the community process > established by microformats.org. So why not develop a vocabulary and two > serializations in parallel? An RDFa-serialization isn't much work to do, the > hard part is the vocabulary and that's the same for both serializations, > RDFa and microformat. Basically it would just mean that we give the > RDFa-serialization a nice home on the web, side by side with the > microformat-serialization, improving interoperabilty and reuse. > I'm not sure that an RDFa serialization is something that needs endorsement or hosting by microformats.org. Once hRecipe is formalised, RDF/RDFa-based work that uses the hRecipe vocabulary needs no input from microformats.org. The syntax for the RDFa is derived simply from the RDF/OWL model - there's nothing there that needs deciding on. And, well, if you have a microformat, it seems pointless to publish RDFa - just create a GRDDL profile describing the transformation of hRecipe into RDF/XML and use that (HTML 5 @profile concerns aside). You do raise an important point though: the RDF world needs a microformats.org-style development community. That was the intention I had behind setting up GetSemantic, and I think the creation of such a community is the intention behind VoCamp. At VoCampOxford, we discussed the problem of the lack of a microformats-style venue for discussion and creation of RDF vocabularies, and this is an active problem that I think needs solving. We can't just tack this on to microformats - it needs to be separate. Such a group would, of course, tell people to use microformats where appropriate. Here's how you (or whoever else is interested) should probably proceed: when hRecipe reaches a point of maturity, sit down and properly RDFize it - work out the classes and the properties involved, and figure out how they map both ways from the RDF to the microformat. Draft that up as an OWL ontology, put a draft version up in Notation3 format on the web and solicit comments. You don't have to specify an RDFa mapping, because that's implicit - if you understand RDFa, and you understand the vocabulary, the RDFa syntax that you would use becomes obvious. Read http://vocamp.org/wiki/Best_Practices And if you've got questions, ask on irc.freenode.net #swig Sorry to regular mf-discuss readers for that extended diversion into RDF-land. Back to your regular scheduled programming. -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Thu Oct 9 06:02:45 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Thu Oct 9 06:02:57 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 09.10.08 13:01, "Tom Morris" wrote: > I'm not sure that an RDFa serialization is something that needs > endorsement or hosting by microformats.org. Once hRecipe is > formalised, RDF/RDFa-based work that uses the hRecipe vocabulary needs > no input from microformats.org. The syntax for the RDFa is derived > simply from the RDF/OWL model - there's nothing there that needs > deciding on. There are still things that can go wrong - you confirm that below when you propose to draft a mapping and post that as N3-Draft on the web to solicit comments. My question is if microformats wouldn't be a good place to do just that. It's the question if we need another site, another organisation to develop vocabularies and/or serializations in a community-process or if, at least if a proposal with a microformats-syntax is already active, can add a RDFa-serialization project to it? > And, well, if you have a microformat, it seems pointless > to publish RDFa - just create a GRDDL profile describing the > transformation of hRecipe into RDF/XML and use that (HTML 5 @profile > concerns aside). If I want to use several vocabularies in one page, how would a GRDDL-profile of a microformat help with conflicting microformats and the lack of namespaces on that page in the first place? > You do raise an important point though: the RDF world needs a > microformats.org-style development community. That was the intention I > had behind setting up GetSemantic, and I think the creation of such a > community is the intention behind VoCamp. At VoCampOxford, we > discussed the problem of the lack of a microformats-style venue for > discussion and creation of RDF vocabularies, and this is an active > problem that I think needs solving. We can't just tack this on to > microformats - it needs to be separate. Such a group would, of course, > tell people to use microformats where appropriate. I don't see why it needs to be seperate. I would understand, although not necessarily agree, if "the" microformats-people said: "It's not just the process and it's not just the serialization either - it's both together". I'd like to discuss that. > Here's how you (or whoever else is interested) should probably > proceed: when hRecipe reaches a point of maturity, sit down and > properly RDFize it - work out the classes and the properties involved, > and figure out how they map both ways from the RDF to the microformat. > Draft that up as an OWL ontology, put a draft version up in Notation3 > format on the web and solicit comments. You don't have to specify an > RDFa mapping, because that's implicit - if you understand RDFa, and > you understand the vocabulary, the RDFa syntax that you would use > becomes obvious. > > Read http://vocamp.org/wiki/Best_Practices That's a start of an Ontology 101 - not sure how that would help with my proposal. > And if you've got questions, ask on irc.freenode.net #swig > > Sorry to regular mf-discuss readers for that extended diversion into > RDF-land. Back to your regular scheduled programming. Not so fast, please ;-) You would have to explain why you think a seperate place for RDFa-serializations is necessary. Because microformats-people don't want to be bothered with RDF-issues? That might be a reason but nobody has actually raised it so far. Greets, Thomas Thomas L?rtsch Business Development _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg Postanschrift: 20444 Hamburg Telefon +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 43 14 Telefax +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 42 12 E-Mail loertsch.thomas@guj.de http://www.livingathome.de http://www.essen-und-trinken.de http://www.dogs-magazin.de http://www.wiewohnstdu.de _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH | Sitz: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 75612 | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Lindner, Nadja Stavenhagen | Ein Unternehmen von Gruner + Jahr From msporny at digitalbazaar.com Thu Oct 9 06:48:47 2008 From: msporny at digitalbazaar.com (Manu Sporny) Date: Thu Oct 9 06:48:54 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48EE0BBF.9030208@digitalbazaar.com> Thomas Loertsch wrote: >> I'm not sure that an RDFa serialization is something that needs >> endorsement or hosting by microformats.org. Once hRecipe is >> formalised, RDF/RDFa-based work that uses the hRecipe vocabulary needs >> no input from microformats.org. The syntax for the RDFa is derived >> simply from the RDF/OWL model - there's nothing there that needs >> deciding on. > > There are still things that can go wrong - you confirm that below when you > propose to draft a mapping and post that as N3-Draft on the web to solicit > comments. My question is if microformats wouldn't be a good place to do just > that. It's the question if we need another site, another organisation to > develop vocabularies and/or serializations in a community-process or if, at > least if a proposal with a microformats-syntax is already active, can add a > RDFa-serialization project to it? Clearly stating the RDFa equivalent of Microformat markup would be beneficial to website authors. This would also halt duplication of work in both the Microformats and RDFa communities and thus would be something that is beneficial to the semantics community at large. We don't want other communities duplicating work done in this community. I'd like to point out that hAudio has gone through this already and it would be really nice if we could clearly state what the RDFa equivalent of hAudio is without having to host the RDFa vocabulary elsewhere. What would be even better is a unified syntax for expressing both Microformats and RDFa, as described here: http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies#Creating_a_document_that_uses_microformat_terms_via_RDFa If the preceding proposal were pushed forward and adopted, it would mean that any Microformats vocabulary would automatically be RDFa-izable and that we would have a unified syntax for expressing both RDFa and Microformats. Food for thought. -- manu From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Fri Oct 10 01:33:56 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Fri Oct 10 01:34:43 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? Message-ID: <57595200-E94C-4607-A4B0-AFA13003851E@tobyinkster.co.uk> Hi Thomas, There is already a reasonably good RDF recipe schema: http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema# If you want to map hRecipe to RDFa, then the best technique would be to use a combination of the schema above, plus Dublin Core (for authorship) and then create your own vocabulary only to fill in the gaps which the combination of the two more established vocabularies couldn't cover. That would be similar to what Manu has done for his RDFa mapping of hAudio. For what it's worth, I've already performed a mapping of hRecipe to RDF. (This is basically the way my parser, Cognition, works. All microformats are converted into RDF, and then RDF is converted to, for example, vCard or JSON or whatever. Thus, when I added support for hRecipe, I had to map it to RDF as part of that process.) The mapping I've used is: hrecipe => http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#Recipe recipe-title => http://purl.org/dc/terms/title recipe-summary => http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract author => http://purl.org/dc/terms/creator published => http://purl.org/dc/terms/issued photo => http://purl.org/media#depiction ingredient => http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#ingredient method => http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#directions yield => http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#x-yield (Namespace squatting a bit here.) preparation-time => http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#x-preparation-time (Ditto.) category => http://www.holygoat.co.uk/owl/redwood/0.1/tags/taggedWithTag Within ingredients, I also map: quantity => http://buzzword.org.uk/rdf/measure#quantity item => http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#value note => http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract optional => http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract How might all this be used in RDFa? Well, here's an example:

Mince and Dumplings

Toby Inkster

Ingredients

For the mince

  • 400 g minced beed
  • 1 carrot, chopped
  • 1 onion, chopped
  • 60 g peas, shelled (frozen are OK)
  • 500 mL ale
  • 2 tbsp tomato puree
  • worcestershire sauce to taste
  • sage
  • butter

For the dumplings

  • 75 g shredded suet
  • 150 g self-raising flour
  1. Preheat the oven to 190ūC.
  2. In a casserole dish, fry the onion gently with a little butter.
  3. Brown the beef in the dish.
  4. Mix in the other mince ingredients.
  5. Bake for 45 minutes, covered.
  6. While the mince is baking, prepare a dough from the suet, flour and a little water.
  7. Divide the dough into eight balls.
  8. After the mince has been baking for 45 minutes, add the dumplings to the dish. They should float like icebergs, partly poking out of the mince.
  9. Return to the oven for another 35 minutes - covered for 20 minutes and uncovered for the last 15.

Preparation: 10 minutes; Cooking: 90 minutes.

-- Toby A Inkster From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Mon Oct 13 08:01:01 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Mon Oct 13 08:02:06 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? In-Reply-To: <57595200-E94C-4607-A4B0-AFA13003851E@tobyinkster.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Toby, I like the reuse of existing vocabularies but I'm wondering if it could be done in another, less involved way. The way you do it also scarces me a little because I find it hard to judge how stable vocabularies like those of donnafales.com or holygoat.co.uk are. And what if there where two slightly different vocabularies for recipes that I both liked and that both had their merits? Which one would I chose and what would happen to the other one? How about the following approach: * define a RDFa-vocabulary with exactly the same element-names as the microformats vocabulary * define mappings from this vocabulary to other, existing vocabularies through OWL, eg hRecipe:title owl:equivalentClass dc:title * or, mapping from the microformat serialization of Recipe to the RDFa serialization hRecipe:title owl:sameAs aRecipe:title I think this would also reflect the higher importance of the vocabulary over the serializations. The serializations can be easily mapped to each other, once the technical basics are developed while the vocabularies are the hard part to develop. Imho it would make sense to reuse the vocabularies as much to the letter as possible. That makes things more memorable, and easier to identify e.g. when scanning source code. Cheers, Thomas On 10.10.08 10:33, "Toby A Inkster" wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > There is already a reasonably good RDF recipe schema: > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema# > > If you want to map hRecipe to RDFa, then the best technique would be > to use a combination of the schema above, plus Dublin Core (for > authorship) and then create your own vocabulary only to fill in the > gaps which the combination of the two more established vocabularies > couldn't cover. That would be similar to what Manu has done for his > RDFa mapping of hAudio. > > For what it's worth, I've already performed a mapping of hRecipe to > RDF. (This is basically the way my parser, Cognition, works. All > microformats are converted into RDF, and then RDF is converted to, > for example, vCard or JSON or whatever. Thus, when I added support > for hRecipe, I had to map it to RDF as part of that process.) The > mapping I've used is: > > hrecipe => > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#Recipe > > recipe-title => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/title > > recipe-summary => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract > > author => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/creator > > published => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/issued > > photo => > http://purl.org/media#depiction > > ingredient => > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#ingredient > > method => > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#directions > > yield => > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#x-yield > (Namespace squatting a bit here.) > > preparation-time => > http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#x-preparation-time > (Ditto.) > > category => > http://www.holygoat.co.uk/owl/redwood/0.1/tags/taggedWithTag > > Within ingredients, I also map: > > quantity => > http://buzzword.org.uk/rdf/measure#quantity > > item => > http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#value > > note => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract > > optional => > http://purl.org/dc/terms/abstract > > How might all this be used in RDFa? Well, here's an example: > >
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/terms/" > xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" > xmlns:m="http://buzzword.org.uk/measure#" > typeof="r:Recipe"> > >

Mince and Dumplings

>
Toby Inkster
> >

Ingredients

> >

For the mince

> >
    >
  • > 400 g > minced beed >
    • >
  • > 1 > carrot, > chopped >
    • >
  • > 1 > onion, > chopped >
    • >
  • > 60 g > peas, > shelled (frozen are OK) >
    • >
  • > 500 mL > ale >
    • >
  • > 2 tbsp > tomato puree >
    • >
  • > worcestershire sauce > to taste >
    • >
  • > sage >
    • >
  • > butter >
    • >
> >

For the dumplings

>
    >
  • > 75 g > shredded suet >
    • >
  • > 150 g > self-raising flour >
    • >
> >
>
    >
  1. Preheat the oven to 190?C.
    2. >
  2. In a casserole dish, fry the onion gently > with a little butter.
    3. >
  3. Brown the beef in the dish.
    4. >
  4. Mix in the other mince ingredients.
    5. >
  5. Bake for 45 minutes, covered.
    6. >
  6. While the mince is baking, prepare a > dough from the suet, flour and a little > water.
    7. >
  7. Divide the dough into eight balls.
    8. >
  8. After the mince has been baking for > 45 minutes, add the dumplings to the dish. > They should float like icebergs, partly > poking out of the mince.
    9. >
  9. Return to the oven for another 35 > minutes - covered for 20 minutes and > uncovered for the last 15.
    10. >
>
> >

> > Preparation: 10 minutes; > > Cooking: 90 minutes. >

> >
Thomas L?rtsch Business Development _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg Postanschrift: 20444 Hamburg Telefon +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 43 14 Telefax +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 42 12 E-Mail loertsch.thomas@guj.de http://www.livingathome.de http://www.essen-und-trinken.de http://www.dogs-magazin.de http://www.wiewohnstdu.de _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH | Sitz: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 75612 | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Lindner, Nadja Stavenhagen | Ein Unternehmen von Gruner + Jahr From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Mon Oct 13 15:59:32 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Mon Oct 13 16:00:10 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? Message-ID: <5FA6DF90-9C75-4D85-88FB-D9583A3BF3EB@tobyinkster.co.uk> > The way you do it also scarces me a > little because I find it hard to judge how stable vocabularies like > those of > donnafales.com or holygoat.co.uk are. The former I don't know, but the latter is probably the most widely used RDF tagging vocab that there is - Richard Newman is very unlikely to make any incompatible changes to it. > And what if there where two slightly > different vocabularies for recipes that I both liked and that both > had their > merits? Which one would I chose and what would happen to the other > one? Good luck finding another RDF recipe vocab with merit. Good luck finding another RDF recipe vocab at all! > * define mappings from this vocabulary to other, existing vocabularies > through OWL, eg > > hRecipe:title owl:equivalentClass dc:title The problem with this is that only tools that support OWL will realise that hRecipe:title is the item's title. This leaves the majority of simple RDF tools out in the cold. > That makes things more memorable, and easier to > identify e.g. when scanning source code. If you want to make the properties you're using for recipes more obvious, you could always use: xmlns:recipe="http://donnafales.com/2002/07/28/recipe-schema#" xmlns:recipeDC="http://purl.org/dc/terms/" xmlns:recipeTag="http://www.holygoat.co.uk/owl/redwood/0.1/tags/"

...

... etc ... Anyway, this is probably becoming off-topic for uf-discuss. Perhaps we should shift over to the SWIG mailing list? -- Toby A Inkster From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Tue Oct 14 02:02:50 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Tue Oct 14 02:02:59 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] How about adding aRecipe, an RDFa serialization of hRecipe? In-Reply-To: <5FA6DF90-9C75-4D85-88FB-D9583A3BF3EB@tobyinkster.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Toby, thanks for your comments! On 14.10.08 00:59, "Toby A Inkster" wrote: > Anyway, this is probably becoming off-topic for uf-discuss. Perhaps > we should shift over to the SWIG mailing list? Maybe you're right. I have some hope that people here are interested in issues of interoperabilty too but I don't want to annoy anybody either. So, see you on SWIG... Ciao Thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Tue Oct 14 08:59:22 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Tue Oct 14 08:59:38 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe example Message-ID: Hi, I've put together an example of a very simple (h)recipe. It would be great if people could check this. If it's okay or if I get no responses I'll put it up on the wiki and generate a more involved example. Btw: what would be the right page to do so? Brainstorming? Or a new "Examples"-page? Cheers, Thomas

Pommes Frites

Pommes frites come from the outer space. They are served hot. This recipe is only an example. Don't try this at home!

Thomas Loertsch

Published 14. Oct 2008

500 gramme potatoes, hard cooking, or use frozen pommes frites from the supermarket instead.

  • First wash the potatoes.
  • Then slice and dice them and put them in boiling fat.
  • After a few minutes take them out again.

Enough for 12 children.

Preparation time is approximately 1 hour 30 minutes.

This recipe is and .

This recipe licensed under cc by 2.0.

. Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Tue Oct 14 09:03:37 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Tue Oct 14 09:03:55 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe brainstorming - Property List and Field Details Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to edit the property list and field details on the recipe-brainstorming page to reflect the recent discussions on the mailinglist. Since I dominated most of these discussions this is admittedly a rather subjective task. I would try to be very consensual but still ... are there any procedures? Objections? May I just go ahaed (it's a wiki, after all)? Or is this totally evil? Thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Tue Oct 14 09:31:33 2008 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Tue Oct 14 09:33:33 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe brainstorming - Property List and Field Details In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <934308821-1224002005-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-902107440-@bxe019.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thomas - on brainstorming pages it is best to *add* another proposal with your thoughts rather than change someone else's. This way the community can compare and contrast several brainstorm proposals. As part of your proposal you may wish to document the reasons behind each choice of property name etc. Tantek -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Loertsch Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:03:37 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe brainstorming - Property List and Field Details Hi, I'd like to edit the property list and field details on the recipe-brainstorming page to reflect the recent discussions on the mailinglist. Since I dominated most of these discussions this is admittedly a rather subjective task. I would try to be very consensual but still ... are there any procedures? Objections? May I just go ahaed (it's a wiki, after all)? Or is this totally evil? Thomas . Thomas L?rtsch Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online .. Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg ... eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From loertsch.thomas at guj.de Tue Oct 14 09:41:16 2008 From: loertsch.thomas at guj.de (Thomas Loertsch) Date: Tue Oct 14 09:41:35 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe brainstorming - Property List and Field Details In-Reply-To: <934308821-1224002005-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-902107440-@bxe019.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: but it's not really a new proposal. it's at least 90% the same, and discussions are reflected in the brainstorming section already. i have absolutely no problem with documenting changes but i guess it's hard to find the differences and it doesn't improve the usability of the page if there are two almost/quite identical proposals ? thomas On 14.10.08 18:31, "Tantek Celik" wrote: > Thomas - on brainstorming pages it is best to *add* another proposal with your > thoughts rather than change someone else's. This way the community can compare > and contrast several brainstorm proposals. As part of your proposal you may > wish to document the reasons behind each choice of property name etc. > > Tantek > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Loertsch > > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:03:37 > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe brainstorming - Property List and Field Details > > > Hi, > > I'd like to edit the property list and field details on the > recipe-brainstorming page to reflect the recent discussions on the > mailinglist. Since I dominated most of these discussions this is admittedly > a rather subjective task. I would try to be very consensual but still ... > are there any procedures? Objections? May I just go ahaed (it's a wiki, > after all)? Or is this totally evil? > > Thomas > > > > . > Thomas L?rtsch > Living at Home Multi Media GmbH > Redaktion Online > .. > Stubbenhuk 5 > 20459 Hamburg > ... > eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss Gr??e, Thomas Thomas L?rtsch Business Development _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH Redaktion Online Stubbenhuk 5 20459 Hamburg Postanschrift: 20444 Hamburg Telefon +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 43 14 Telefax +49 (0) 40 / 37 03 - 42 12 E-Mail loertsch.thomas@guj.de http://www.livingathome.de http://www.essen-und-trinken.de http://www.dogs-magazin.de http://www.wiewohnstdu.de _________________________________________________________ Living at Home Multi Media GmbH | Sitz: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 75612 | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thomas Lindner, Nadja Stavenhagen | Ein Unternehmen von Gruner + Jahr From kazuhito at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 19:39:01 2008 From: kazuhito at gmail.com (Kazuhito Kidachi) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:39:23 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe example In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I feel that you're missing root element for hRecipe. It may any kind of block level elemet with class="herecipe" or something. In case you add the root element, some properties like recipe-title and recipe-summary can be more simpler, dropping such a prefix of "recipe-". ...My two cents. Kazuhito 2008/10/15 Thomas Loertsch : > Hi, > > I've put together an example of a very simple (h)recipe. It would be great > if people could check this. If it's okay or if I get no responses I'll put > it up on the wiki and generate a more involved example. Btw: what would be > the right page to do so? Brainstorming? Or a new "Examples"-page? > > Cheers, > Thomas > > > >

Pommes Frites

> > >

Pommes frites come from the outer space. They are > served hot. This recipe is only an example. Don't try this at home!

> > >

Thomas Loertsch

> > >

Published 14. > Oct 2008

> > > > > >

> > > > 500 class="unit">gramme > > > potatoes, > > > > hard cooking, > > > or use frozen pommes frites from the supermarket > instead. >

> > >
    >
  • First wash the potatoes.
    • >
  • Then slice and dice them and put them in boiling fat.
    • >
  • After a few minutes take them out again.
    • >
> > >

Enough for 12 children.

> > >

Preparation time is approximately class="h">1 hour 30 minutes.

> > >

This recipe is rel="tag">easy and href="http://www.eut.de/tags/tastyness/delicious" > rel="tag">delicious.

> > >

This recipe licensed under href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/" rel="license">cc by > 2.0.

> > > > > > > . > Thomas L?rtsch > Living at Home Multi Media GmbH > Redaktion Online > .. > Stubbenhuk 5 > 20459 Hamburg > ... > eMail: loertsch.thomas@guj.de > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:kazuhito@gmail.com From glenn.jones at madgex.com Wed Oct 15 08:31:31 2008 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Wed Oct 15 08:31:01 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Converting mircoformats to Portable Contacts API Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF026FD682@MOBY.Clarence.local> I have been doing some research work on the new Portable Contacts API[4] and mircoformats. The Portable Contacts API is designed to enable users to securely port their profile, friend lists or address books from one site to another. It could be another part of the answer to the password anti-pattern. It uses a number of pre-existing technologies, with its data structures based around OpenSocial and vCard, which could create a common access pattern and contact schema for everyone to use. I have built a number of interfaces to help evaluate any data loss or added ambiguity that may occur when converting microformats into the Portable Contacts API data schema. 1 hCard to Portable Contacts API demo 2 hCard-XFN pattern to Portable Contacts API demo 3 hResume to Portable Contacts API demo They do not yet provide the querying, sorting and pagination nor the endpoint URL elements of the specification. It's also worth mentioning that Portable Contacts API is still in development and these interfaces are based on the Draft C specification. May or may not be of interest Glenn Jones [1] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hcardtopoco.aspx [2] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hcardxfntopoco.aspx [3] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hresumetopoco.aspx [4] http://portablecontacts.net/ From davidjanes at blogmatrix.com Fri Oct 17 13:54:29 2008 From: davidjanes at blogmatrix.com (David Janes) Date: Fri Oct 17 13:54:37 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Yahoo Profiles Message-ID: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> I just read [1] about Yahoo's new profiles. Does anyone know if Microformats are supported? Regards, etc... [1] http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/16/go-get-yer-shiny-new-yahoo-profileand-make-some-connections/ -- David Janes Mercenary Programmer From philip.tellis at gmail.com Fri Oct 17 14:28:29 2008 From: philip.tellis at gmail.com (Philip Tellis) Date: Fri Oct 17 14:28:31 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Yahoo Profiles In-Reply-To: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e95f9b80810171428k4c81eecaif33c29ef4239083d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/17 David Janes : > I just read [1] about Yahoo's new profiles. Does anyone know if > Microformats are supported? Not that I can see, but if not, I'll put in a feature request. From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Fri Oct 17 20:21:26 2008 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Fri Oct 17 20:21:41 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Yahoo Profiles In-Reply-To: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 17 Oct 2008, at 13:54, David Janes wrote: > I just read [1] about Yahoo's new profiles. Does anyone know if > Microformats are supported? There are some. You connections have hcards, although there's an error with class='photo' not being added to an IMG element (instead a parent). I've filed bugs for the addition of hcard to profile pages themselves and XFN to connection relationships. Thanks, David. B From davidjanes at blogmatrix.com Sat Oct 18 02:02:34 2008 From: davidjanes at blogmatrix.com (David Janes) Date: Sat Oct 18 02:02:39 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Yahoo Profiles In-Reply-To: References: <21e523c20810171354i4fd17fb6ra9628f5a682af9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e523c20810180202k46874838hc555c95f603c0be2@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Ben Ward wrote: > On 17 Oct 2008, at 13:54, David Janes wrote: > >> I just read [1] about Yahoo's new profiles. Does anyone know if >> Microformats are supported? > > There are some. > > You connections have hcards, although there's an error with class='photo' > not being added to an IMG element (instead a parent). > > I've filed bugs for the addition of hcard to profile pages themselves and > XFN to connection relationships. > > Thanks, David. > Thank you (all). I'd like a good place to put "me" hcards, especially for people who don't roll-their-own websites. Regards, etc... -- David Janes Mercenary Programmer From mdagn at spraci.com Tue Oct 21 21:56:02 2008 From: mdagn at spraci.com (Michael MD) Date: Tue Oct 21 21:56:25 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] mama References: <1b42308f0703122057h6c25197dg674af511cb043676@mail.gmail.com><004001c76527$85ca0e10$bc08a8c0@nzto22><1b42308f0703131028x260ae36w6f5c8859261d4d12@mail.gmail.com><002301c76a95$3dad2fe0$116bacca@COMCEN><21e770780703200230g70980579ya4ac8c0a26aeb233@mail.gmail.com><1E9970C4-1442-47CD-A9E2-4F3B556F341A@deri.org> Message-ID: <002d01c93402$7eec8ae0$116bacca@COMCEN> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/mama/ looks interesting ... might there be a way to search for classnames with this soon? From derrick at pallas.us Tue Oct 21 22:02:11 2008 From: derrick at pallas.us (Derrick Lyndon Pallas) Date: Tue Oct 21 22:02:19 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] mama In-Reply-To: <002d01c93402$7eec8ae0$116bacca@COMCEN> References: <1b42308f0703122057h6c25197dg674af511cb043676@mail.gmail.com><004001c76527$85ca0e10$bc08a8c0@nzto22><1b42308f0703131028x260ae36w6f5c8859261d4d12@mail.gmail.com><002301c76a95$3dad2fe0$116bacca@COMCEN><21e770780703200230g70980579ya4ac8c0a26aeb233@mail.gmail.com><1E9970C4-1442-47CD-A9E2-4F3B556F341A@deri.org> <002d01c93402$7eec8ae0$116bacca@COMCEN> Message-ID: <48FEB3D3.30409@pallas.us> Michael MD wrote: > looks interesting ... > might there be a way to search for classnames with this soon? If you mean "on the web, in general" there already is. I added the ClassTag operator (the name is not my fault) to Alexa Internet's search a long time ago. It is accessible through Alexa Web Search at Amazon Web Services. A query of should find documents where "xfolk" is used in a class somewhere in the document. ~D From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Wed Oct 22 00:40:10 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Wed Oct 22 00:40:46 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] mama Message-ID: > A query of should find documents where > "xfolk" is used in a class somewhere in the document. ~D Though that doesn't tell you much, as the xFolk root class name is "xfolkentry". ;-) Does it cope with multiple class names in one attribute, like class="contact vcard mine"? -- Toby A Inkster From derrick at pallas.us Wed Oct 22 08:20:55 2008 From: derrick at pallas.us (Derrick Lyndon Pallas) Date: Wed Oct 22 08:21:05 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] mama In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48FF44D7.2090608@pallas.us> Toby A Inkster wrote: >> A query of should find documents where >> "xfolk" is used in a class somewhere in the document. ~D > > Though that doesn't tell you much, as the xFolk root class name is > "xfolkentry". ;-) > > Does it cope with multiple class names in one attribute, like > class="contact vcard mine"? > Oops! You're correct, xfolkentry not xfolk. That operator is connected to a search-only field in the index that records all classes used in documents. It works for all NMTOKENs in the class attribute. For what it's worth, there is an equivalent field called RelTag for the rel attribute. I looked at doing RevTag but the field was mostly full of auto-generated garbage. There were too few common revs and too many meaningless ones, which meant it was too big to justify its uselessness. ~D From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Wed Oct 22 10:46:36 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Wed Oct 22 10:46:57 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. The Mix Online team here at Microsoft wanted to do something with Microformats and Oomph is the result. Our main goal with Oomph is to make Microformats more accessible for users, developers and designers. Oomph is an amalgamation of applications: an Internet Explorer Add-in built in C++; a cross-browser HTML overlay built using JQuery that aggregates Microformats (hCard and hCalendar); a set of CSS styles for Microformats; and a Windows Live Writer plug-in written for inserting hCards. And, the entire project is up on Codeplex (http://codeplex.com/oomph), ready for community contribution and extensibility. We have a video that demos the various components of Oomph, although it hasn't been posted to the Mix Online site yet. But you can check it out on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2f2Z9MMQ8 I wanted to thank the various people who have responded to my questions on this alias. Now that we shipped, I look forward to continuing to work with folks moving forward and welcome your feedback. With all the code up on Codeplex, we have the opportunity to keep iterating on the code and we are seeking contributors to the project moving forward. I also wanted to mention that, if any of you are at the Microsoft Professional Developers conference next week in LA, I'll be giving a talk on Oomph and Microformats, Wednesday October 29th. I'd love to meet up with folks while I'm there. And I'm hoping to make it to a Microformat meetup dinners one of these weeks in San Francisco. Regards, Karsten Januszewski From chris.messina at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 15:48:57 2008 From: chris.messina at gmail.com (Chris Messina) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:49:01 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> OMFG. This is from Microsoft?! Next you'll say that you're implementing OpenID. Oh... yeah. ;) Congrats, this is great. I'm a little confused about how to make use of this stuff on my Mac, but for PC folks who use Internet Explorer, this must be pretty useful! Chris On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > > Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. The Mix Online team here at Microsoft wanted to do something with Microformats and Oomph is the result. > > Our main goal with Oomph is to make Microformats more accessible for users, developers and designers. Oomph is an amalgamation of applications: an Internet Explorer Add-in built in C++; a cross-browser HTML overlay built using JQuery that aggregates Microformats (hCard and hCalendar); a set of CSS styles for Microformats; and a Windows Live Writer plug-in written for inserting hCards. And, the entire project is up on Codeplex (http://codeplex.com/oomph), ready for community contribution and extensibility. > > We have a video that demos the various components of Oomph, although it hasn't been posted to the Mix Online site yet. But you can check it out on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2f2Z9MMQ8 > > I wanted to thank the various people who have responded to my questions on this alias. Now that we shipped, I look forward to continuing to work with folks moving forward and welcome your feedback. With all the code up on Codeplex, we have the opportunity to keep iterating on the code and we are seeking contributors to the project moving forward. > > I also wanted to mention that, if any of you are at the Microsoft Professional Developers conference next week in LA, I'll be giving a talk on Oomph and Microformats, Wednesday October 29th. I'd love to meet up with folks while I'm there. And I'm hoping to make it to a Microformat meetup dinners one of these weeks in San Francisco. > > Regards, > Karsten Januszewski > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen-Participant & Open Technology Advocate-at-Large factoryjoe.com # diso-project.org citizenagency.com # vidoop.com This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private From davidjanes at blogmatrix.com Wed Oct 22 16:13:23 2008 From: davidjanes at blogmatrix.com (David Janes) Date: Wed Oct 22 16:13:27 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <21e523c20810221613n4b3faea8q305b599f115cff3b@mail.gmail.com> Neat. On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. The Mix Online team here at Microsoft wanted to do something with Microformats and Oomph is the result. > > Our main goal with Oomph is to make Microformats more accessible for users, developers and designers. Oomph is an amalgamation of applications: an Internet Explorer Add-in built in C++; a cross-browser HTML overlay built using JQuery that aggregates Microformats (hCard and hCalendar); a set of CSS styles for Microformats; and a Windows Live Writer plug-in written for inserting hCards. And, the entire project is up on Codeplex (http://codeplex.com/oomph), ready for community contribution and extensibility. > > We have a video that demos the various components of Oomph, although it hasn't been posted to the Mix Online site yet. But you can check it out on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2f2Z9MMQ8 > > I wanted to thank the various people who have responded to my questions on this alias. Now that we shipped, I look forward to continuing to work with folks moving forward and welcome your feedback. With all the code up on Codeplex, we have the opportunity to keep iterating on the code and we are seeking contributors to the project moving forward. > > I also wanted to mention that, if any of you are at the Microsoft Professional Developers conference next week in LA, I'll be giving a talk on Oomph and Microformats, Wednesday October 29th. I'd love to meet up with folks while I'm there. And I'm hoping to make it to a Microformat meetup dinners one of these weeks in San Francisco. > > Regards, > Karsten Januszewski > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- David Janes Mercenary Programmer From andr3.pt at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 16:16:00 2008 From: andr3.pt at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Lu=EDs?=) Date: Wed Oct 22 16:16:03 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hya, On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Chris Messina wrote: > OMFG. > > This is from Microsoft?! Good question... is it? Great work. Now all IE users can join the party as well! :D Is it compatible with all IEs? 6, 7 and 8? And I haven't tried using the Live Write extension but from the videos it appeared that if you leave the address field blank it will add an element
... Shouldn't it be absent from the generated html? Or was this fixed on the final version? Thanks! -- Andr? Lu?s From msporny at digitalbazaar.com Wed Oct 22 18:06:45 2008 From: msporny at digitalbazaar.com (Manu Sporny) Date: Wed Oct 22 18:06:50 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FFCE25.4030209@digitalbazaar.com> > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Karsten Januszewski > wrote: >> Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, > which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. Great stuff, Karsten! Looking forward to seeing where this goes... what are the next steps, if you're allowed to elaborate? Where are you putting your efforts for the next 3-6 months regarding Oomph? Supporting more Microformats? Doing more stuff like Ubiquity[1]? What are the future goals for Oomph? -- manu [1] http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/08/introducing-ubiquity/ -- Manu Sporny President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. blog: POSIX Threads Kill: Scaling Past 100K Concurrent Web Requests http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/09/30/scaling-webservices-part-1 blog: Fibers are the Future: Scaling Past 100K Concurrent Web Requests http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/10/21/scaling-webservices-part-2 From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Thu Oct 23 09:43:10 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Thu Oct 23 09:45:02 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF313035B1C1C@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thanks for catching that on the Live Writer plug-in. I've added a work item in Codeplex so that we can track it and update it ASAP. http://www.codeplex.com/Oomph/WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=758 As far as versions of IE, we've only tested on IE7 & 8. Regards, Karsten ________________________________________ From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Andr? Lu?s [andr3.pt@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:16 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit Hya, On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Chris Messina wrote: > OMFG. > > This is from Microsoft?! Good question... is it? Great work. Now all IE users can join the party as well! :D Is it compatible with all IEs? 6, 7 and 8? And I haven't tried using the Live Write extension but from the videos it appeared that if you leave the address field blank it will add an element
... Shouldn't it be absent from the generated html? Or was this fixed on the final version? Thanks! -- Andr? Lu?s _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Thu Oct 23 09:49:57 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Thu Oct 23 09:50:47 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <48FFCE25.4030209@digitalbazaar.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com>, <48FFCE25.4030209@digitalbazaar.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF313035B1C1D@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thanks, Manu. Our plans for Oomph are to continue to maintain and improve it moving forward. There is an implementation (oomphx.js) already posted on Codeplex for supporting hAudio; I'd love to see more microformats supported moving forward. Part of the reason we've put the whole project on Codeplex is in the hopes that we can garner a community around the project who will also help move it forward. As far as Ubiquity, from the brief look I took, it appears similar to IE8 accelerators and web slices [1], no? Regards, Karsten [1] http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/beta/readiness/developers-new.aspx ________________________________________ From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Manu Sporny [msporny@digitalbazaar.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:06 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Karsten Januszewski > wrote: >> Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, > which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. Great stuff, Karsten! Looking forward to seeing where this goes... what are the next steps, if you're allowed to elaborate? Where are you putting your efforts for the next 3-6 months regarding Oomph? Supporting more Microformats? Doing more stuff like Ubiquity[1]? What are the future goals for Oomph? -- manu [1] http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/08/introducing-ubiquity/ -- Manu Sporny President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. blog: POSIX Threads Kill: Scaling Past 100K Concurrent Web Requests http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/09/30/scaling-webservices-part-1 blog: Fibers are the Future: Scaling Past 100K Concurrent Web Requests http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/10/21/scaling-webservices-part-2 _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From karstenj at windows.microsoft.com Thu Oct 23 11:41:10 2008 From: karstenj at windows.microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Thu Oct 23 11:45:14 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit In-Reply-To: <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31303E58951@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>, <1bc4603e0810221548o5fc9a5f3vb93075801d3ca314@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF313035B1C1F@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thanks, Chris. There is a Mac story, btw. We've made oomph.js available [1] for websites to manually add to their pages with Microformats. In that case, any browser on any OS will get the "oomph" experience. You can see an example of on my blog [2] which should work on your Mac. In fact, you'll notice we provide "Export to Apple" icons for both hCard and hCalendar. Of course, behind the scenes, it is doing the exact same thing as the "Export to Outlook" icon: just generating a vCard or iCal from the hCard/hCalendar. :) Regards, Karsten [1] http://www.codeplex.com/Oomph [2] http://www.rhizohm.net/contact.html ________________________________________ From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Chris Messina [chris.messina@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:48 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit OMFG. This is from Microsoft?! Next you'll say that you're implementing OpenID. Oh... yeah. ;) Congrats, this is great. I'm a little confused about how to make use of this stuff on my Mac, but for PC folks who use Internet Explorer, this must be pretty useful! Chris On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > > Greetings - I'm excited to announce the release of Oomph: A Microformat Toolkit, which just went live at http://visitmix.com/lab/oomph. The Mix Online team here at Microsoft wanted to do something with Microformats and Oomph is the result. > > Our main goal with Oomph is to make Microformats more accessible for users, developers and designers. Oomph is an amalgamation of applications: an Internet Explorer Add-in built in C++; a cross-browser HTML overlay built using JQuery that aggregates Microformats (hCard and hCalendar); a set of CSS styles for Microformats; and a Windows Live Writer plug-in written for inserting hCards. And, the entire project is up on Codeplex (http://codeplex.com/oomph), ready for community contribution and extensibility. > > We have a video that demos the various components of Oomph, although it hasn't been posted to the Mix Online site yet. But you can check it out on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2f2Z9MMQ8 > > I wanted to thank the various people who have responded to my questions on this alias. Now that we shipped, I look forward to continuing to work with folks moving forward and welcome your feedback. With all the code up on Codeplex, we have the opportunity to keep iterating on the code and we are seeking contributors to the project moving forward. > > I also wanted to mention that, if any of you are at the Microsoft Professional Developers conference next week in LA, I'll be giving a talk on Oomph and Microformats, Wednesday October 29th. I'd love to meet up with folks while I'm there. And I'm hoping to make it to a Microformat meetup dinners one of these weeks in San Francisco. > > Regards, > Karsten Januszewski > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Chris Messina Citizen-Participant & Open Technology Advocate-at-Large factoryjoe.com # diso-project.org citizenagency.com # vidoop.com This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From lucapost at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 04:15:55 2008 From: lucapost at gmail.com (LucaP) Date: Fri Oct 24 04:16:01 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] clarification request on usage of id attributes in XMDP Message-ID: I tried asking this directly on Twitter yesterday: "@t why no IDs for
s in hcard XMDP? XMDP spec seems to require them, so that
1st val
still defines a val1 class" but I got no response -hence I'll restate it more clearly in here, without the 140 chars limit: the XMDP for hcard on microformats.org wiki does not use IDs for
elements, while reading the XMDP-specification itself they seem to be required, and used to actually define the allowed values for class attributes of the microformat being formalized trought the url given in the profile argument of the . ?! Ciao From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:33:30 2008 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby A Inkster) Date: Fri Oct 24 13:34:02 2008 Subject: [uf-discuss] clarification request on usage of id attributes in XMDP Message-ID: Using @id is useful so that people can link to particular terms, but I think it would be unwise for any tool to rely on them (as the XMDP spec says that @id does not need to match the name of the term being defined - which is important, given that hCard profiles define both the 'class' attribute and a 'class' class). And if no tools are going to rely on them, then it shouldn't actually be harmful to leave them out. -- Toby A Inkster