From bradleyramos at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:12:10 2009 From: bradleyramos at gmail.com (Bradley Ramos) Date: Mon Aug 3 14:12:26 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Organization Confusion Message-ID: <3DC41039-B4DD-44E1-A189-3527407A74A0@gmail.com> I am having a little trouble semantically setting up some hCard data. I am writing contact information for the official website of the Department of Transportation Services, which is part of the City & County of Honolulu. Therefore, ideally I would like "DTS" to be class="fn organization-unit", while "C&CoH" is organization-name. However, the spec only allows an implied n if fn and organization-name are the same, but this is not correct for my situation. How should I format it? Thanks for your help! From scott at randomchaos.com Mon Aug 3 18:53:18 2009 From: scott at randomchaos.com (Scott Reynen) Date: Mon Aug 3 18:59:06 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Organization Confusion In-Reply-To: <3DC41039-B4DD-44E1-A189-3527407A74A0@gmail.com> References: <3DC41039-B4DD-44E1-A189-3527407A74A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Bradley Ramos wrote: > I am having a little trouble semantically setting up some hCard > data. I am writing contact information for the official website of > the Department of Transportation Services, which is part of the City > & County of Honolulu. Therefore, ideally I would like "DTS" to be > class="fn organization-unit", while "C&CoH" is organization-name. > However, the spec only allows an implied n if fn and organization- > name are the same, but this is not correct for my situation. How > should I format it? Thanks for your help! The implied value of N when FN and ORG have the same value is empty. The implied value of N when no N is present is also empty. So you're not losing anything on N by not doing FN and ORG in the same element. You may be losing some specific functionality in tools that don't know what to do with a card describing an organization unit rather than an organization (relatively uncommon), but I wouldn't expect general problems. Peace, Scott From aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com Wed Aug 12 11:47:30 2009 From: aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 12 11:50:28 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar event formatting Message-ID: <003701ca1b7d$58bcf180$0a36d480$@flax@peopletomysite.com> Good Afternoon, I have a few questions regarding the use of hcalendar event formatting.?? We have a page that has all of the event information scattered throughout the page and was wondering if we used a single span or div ID to enclose each individual section would this information still be read as a single event? Example Page: http://arnold.ptmstech.com/home/sports-and-events/amateur-strongman-contest. html Event Title: Located to the Left in the main section Location: Located to the right in a different section in its own block Schedule: Located Below the Location section with Date/Times. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Aaron From chris at chriscressman.com Wed Aug 12 13:55:21 2009 From: chris at chriscressman.com (Chris Cressman) Date: Wed Aug 12 14:25:16 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar event formatting In-Reply-To: <7029130053858916280@unknownmsgid> References: <7029130053858916280@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <3d99ba250908121355i4d00f90ek44d7651c88274d6f@mail.gmail.com> > I have a few questions regarding the use of hcalendar event formatting.?? We > have a page that has all of the event information scattered throughout the > page and was wondering if we used a single span or div ID to enclose each > individual section would this information still be read as a single event? > > Example Page: > http://arnold.ptmstech.com/home/sports-and-events/amateur-strongman-contest. > html Since your event occurs on 2 different days/times and occurs at a different location each day, I would suggest marking it up as two separate events. You can wrap the vevent container around the content block that contains the dates, mark up the datetimes, and then include the event name and locations using the include pattern [1]. Sorry I don't have time to go into more detail. I may be able to take a closer look later -- it's certainly an interesting example. [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern Chris -- Chris Cressman http://chriscressman.com From scott at randomchaos.com Wed Aug 12 16:38:16 2009 From: scott at randomchaos.com (Scott Reynen) Date: Wed Aug 12 16:38:27 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar event formatting In-Reply-To: <003701ca1b7d$58bcf180$0a36d480$@flax@peopletomysite.com> References: <003701ca1b7d$58bcf180$0a36d480$@flax@peopletomysite.com> Message-ID: On Aug 12, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Aaron wrote: > We > have a page that has all of the event information scattered > throughout the > page and was wondering if we used a single span or div ID to enclose > each > individual section would this information still be read as a single > event? As Chris said, the include pattern is the way to pull together content scattered throughout a page. To address your more specific question, if I'm understanding you, you're talking about using the same ID multiple times in the document? That would be invalid HTML [1], which is never recommended in microformats. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.2 "This name must be unique in a document." Peace, Scott From subscriptions at jtarthur.net Sun Aug 16 20:45:07 2009 From: subscriptions at jtarthur.net (John Arthur) Date: Sun Aug 16 20:45:20 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] uF Profile Permalinks - Where to find them? Message-ID: <4A88D243.2070708@jtarthur.net> I was reading a few of the suggested implementation posts linked from the hAtom section of the Wiki, and came across "Getting Semantic With Microformats, Part 5: hAtom" [1], where the author brings up the concept of the profile attribute of the head element. Now putting aside the fact that I had never seen that attribute before (I'll own that as part of my immense ignorance), I can't seem to see the permalink for the XMDP profiles anywhere on the entire uF site. This wouldn't be the first time I'd overlooked the glaringly obvious, but could someone please point out where this information can be found? I'd assume that if it's not one of the regular sections of a Wiki entry, there'd be some general profile URL listing page. Thanks, JA 1 - http://www.ablognotlimited.com/articles/getting-semantic-with-microformats-part-5-hatom/ From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Sun Aug 16 21:17:59 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Sun Aug 16 21:18:13 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] uF Profile Permalinks - Where to find them? In-Reply-To: <4A88D243.2070708@jtarthur.net> References: <4A88D243.2070708@jtarthur.net> Message-ID: <455355462-1250482685-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-153888128-@bxe1303.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi John, Your question comes at a good time, as I've been writing/updating official profiles for various microformats specs and drafts. You can find links to them here: http://microformats.org/wiki/profile-uris The microformats.org/profile/ URLs can be considered stable, referenceable, and updated per respective wiki issues/resolutions pages. There have been a number of unofficial/experimental profiles as well. The biggest updates consist of various bug fixes and incorporation of the value-class-pattern[1] as an accessibility improvement for most microformats. Thanks, Tantek [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern -----Original Message----- From: John Arthur Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:45:07 To: Subject: [uf-discuss] uF Profile Permalinks - Where to find them? I was reading a few of the suggested implementation posts linked from the hAtom section of the Wiki, and came across "Getting Semantic With Microformats, Part 5: hAtom" [1], where the author brings up the concept of the profile attribute of the head element. Now putting aside the fact that I had never seen that attribute before (I'll own that as part of my immense ignorance), I can't seem to see the permalink for the XMDP profiles anywhere on the entire uF site. This wouldn't be the first time I'd overlooked the glaringly obvious, but could someone please point out where this information can be found? I'd assume that if it's not one of the regular sections of a Wiki entry, there'd be some general profile URL listing page. Thanks, JA 1 - http://www.ablognotlimited.com/articles/getting-semantic-with-microformats-part-5-hatom/ _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From glenn.jones at madgex.com Tue Aug 18 00:46:22 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Tue Aug 18 00:47:34 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Shameless plug for SXSWi microformats related talk Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF038BD1B3@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi All I have submitted an SXSWi proposal for a microformats related talk. Like everyone else I am trying to get some votes on the public panel picker. http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/2628 The idea is to talk about using rel=me and hCard profiles to find and explore distributed identity. Outline - Distributed Identity: API's of the Semantic Web Without much conscious thought, most of us have built identities across the web. We fill in profiles, upload photos, videos, reviews and bookmarks. This session will explore the practical use of Social Graph API and YQL to build new types of user experience combining identity discovery and data portability. Your help voting this up would much appreciated Thanks Glenn Jones From me at gavinbell.com Tue Aug 18 03:19:32 2009 From: me at gavinbell.com (Gavin Bell) Date: Tue Aug 18 03:19:46 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Shameless plug for SXSWi microformats related talk In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF038BD1B3@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF038BD1B3@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <19D97DC6-2915-40E7-81A3-A12CC34A0269@gavinbell.com> On 18 Aug 2009, at 08:46, "Glenn Jones" wrote: > Hi All > > I have submitted an SXSWi proposal for a microformats related talk. > Like > everyone else I am trying to get some votes on the public panel > picker. > > http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/2628 > > The idea is to talk about using rel=me and hCard profiles to find and > explore distributed identity. > > Outline - Distributed Identity: API's of the Semantic Web > Without much conscious thought, most of us have built identities > across > the web. We fill in profiles, upload photos, videos, reviews and > bookmarks. This session will explore the practical use of Social Graph > API and YQL to build new types of user experience combining identity > discovery and data portability. > > Your help voting this up would much appreciated > > Thanks > Glenn Jones > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From mirko.gustony at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 04:57:56 2009 From: mirko.gustony at gmail.com (Mirko Gustony) Date: Tue Aug 18 04:58:01 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Quotes, cites, authors Message-ID: Hello, while reading up on the cite-rel microformat I was wandering which way would be the best to mark up an author of a quote. HTML4/XHTML1 doesn't seem to provide tools for this. I already asked at the HTML5 help list where Ian Hickson pointed me to the microdata feature of HTML5. The example I used there was:

Douglas Crockford writes in Javascript: The Good Parts: Deep down, Javascript has more in common with Lisp and Scheme than with Java. It is Lisp in C?s clothing.

Is there already a solution or some brainstorming on this? Or do you think it's unnecessary? Regards, Mirko From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Tue Aug 18 08:53:30 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Tue Aug 18 08:53:48 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Shameless plug for SXSWi microformats related talk In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF038BD1B3@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF038BD1B3@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <785540251-1250610818-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1331354050-@bxe1303.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Glenn this is a great proposal! Perhaps you could create an entry for SXSW 2010 on the microformats events page[1], and a separate page for SXSW 2010 specifically, and list your proposed panel there: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2010-03-12-sxsw This is so that a) your proposal doesn't get lost in email b) we can add links to additional microformats related proposals (e.g. I know @Silona has proposed a panel on Open and Transparent government through the use of microformats) Thanks! Tantek [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/events -----Original Message----- From: "Glenn Jones" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:46:22 To: Subject: [uf-discuss] Shameless plug for SXSWi microformats related talk Hi All I have submitted an SXSWi proposal for a microformats related talk. Like everyone else I am trying to get some votes on the public panel picker. http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/2628 The idea is to talk about using rel=me and hCard profiles to find and explore distributed identity. Outline - Distributed Identity: API's of the Semantic Web Without much conscious thought, most of us have built identities across the web. We fill in profiles, upload photos, videos, reviews and bookmarks. This session will explore the practical use of Social Graph API and YQL to build new types of user experience combining identity discovery and data portability. Your help voting this up would much appreciated Thanks Glenn Jones _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From chris.messina at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:53:27 2009 From: chris.messina at gmail.com (Chris Messina) Date: Tue Aug 18 11:53:32 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] diso/activity streams/microformats meetup tonight in SF! Message-ID: <1bc4603e0908181153h6400fa7bw2cb9fbc9175d6dfd@mail.gmail.com> We'll be having a diso/activity streams/microformats meetup tonight at 21st Amendment in San Francisco at 6pm ? and then heading to Citizen Space up the street at 8pm to attempt to get some real work done! ;) http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4234949/ All are welcome to attend! Chris -- Chris Messina Open Web Advocate Personal: http://factoryjoe.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina Citizen Agency: http://citizenagency.com Diso Project: http://diso-project.org OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net This email is: ? [X] bloggable ? ?[ ] ask first ? [ ] private From karstenj at microsoft.com Tue Aug 25 13:40:10 2009 From: karstenj at microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Tue Aug 25 13:40:19 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph2 -- An Update To The Mix Online Microformats Tools Message-ID: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D7503ED4000@TK5EX14MBXW651.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Greetings all -- We just released version 2 of Oomph: A Microformats Toolkit at http://www.visitmix.com/lab/oomph. Oomph2 provides the following new features to our microformats toolkit: * Complete Implementation of the Value Class Pattern * Support for hMedia * ASP.NET Microformats Control * User Interface Enhancements * Bug Fixes and Code Refactoring You can see a cross-browser example of it in action here: http://visitmix.com/labs/oomph/2.0/client/style/firstrun.html. In association with the release, there are two new articles about Microformats we've published by Emily Lewis and Jeremy Keith on our homepage at http://visitmix.com. Emily smartly explains why microformats matter to different audiences ? including users, designers, and developers ? in her piece. Jeremy provides an easy-to-understand, clear explanation of what the value class pattern means for microformats in his piece. We are excited to get Oomph2 and these new articles out to the public and hope it helps to support the adoption and usage of microformats. Regards, Karsten Januszewski From martin at weborganics.co.uk Tue Aug 25 16:21:57 2009 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Tue Aug 25 16:21:51 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph2 -- An Update To The Mix Online Microformats Tools In-Reply-To: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D7503ED4000@TK5EX14MBXW651.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D7503ED4000@TK5EX14MBXW651.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <4A947215.6080509@weborganics.co.uk> Hello Karsten Karsten Januszewski wrote: > * Support for hMedia > Great stuff, a very good implementation of hMedia. Best Wishes Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ From aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com Wed Aug 26 07:49:08 2009 From: aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 26 07:42:29 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar disjointed Event Information formatting Message-ID: <01be01ca265c$5e309790$1a91c6b0$@flax@peopletomysite.com> I have marked up this page (http://www.arnoldsportsfestival.com/home/sports-and-events/22nd-arnold-clas sic.html) to use the include class due to having the event's information scattered a few different places on the page. I'm having issues w/ certain Microformat readers not properly identifying the include class to bring the information together. I'm also having issues w/ the description class not being identified as well. I was wondering if someone could take a look at the markup of this page and see if I missed something. Also in hcalendar what is the proper use of the category class and the rel="tag"? Can't seem to find a clear description of these. Again...Thanks for the help. -Aaron From brian.suda at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 07:53:52 2009 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Wed Aug 26 07:53:58 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar disjointed Event Information formatting In-Reply-To: <-2796309119103209170@unknownmsgid> References: <-2796309119103209170@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <21e770780908260753k362aa60euf1d8b889e4068923@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Aaron wrote: > I have marked up this page > (http://www.arnoldsportsfestival.com/home/sports-and-events/22nd-arnold-clas > sic.html) to use the include class due to having the event's information > scattered a few different places on the page. ?I'm having issues w/ certain > Microformat readers not properly identifying the include class to bring the > information together. --- can you give a list of what you are testing with? some parsers use the include pattern, some don?t. Some 'replace' the node with class="include", so make it a child. Knowing what you have tested and what works and what doesn't could better identify the problem. Also, some of your data links are missing the # reference, so this might also by why it isn?t working > Also in hcalendar what is the proper use of the category class and the > rel="tag"? ?Can't seem to find a clear description of these. --- if there is a class="category" (singular) w/o rel-tag, then it will take the text value. If there is ALSO a rel-tag then it should take the last portion of the URL. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com Wed Aug 26 11:39:52 2009 From: aaron.flax at peopletomysite.com (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 26 11:33:14 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hcalendar disjointed Event Information formatting In-Reply-To: <21e770780908260753k362aa60euf1d8b889e4068923@mail.gmail.com> References: <-2796309119103209170@unknownmsgid> <21e770780908260753k362aa60euf1d8b889e4068923@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01bf01ca267c$998b16b0$cca14410$@flax@peopletomysite.com> Thanks Brian, Basically I was wondering if the way I have written the includes for the events on that page look to be ok...except for the missing # of course, which I have fixed. (Thanks) Trying to use oomph but running into issues actually getting it to work on IE, also using the Operator plugin for Firefox. Are there others you might suggest? Thanks Again! -Aaron -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Brian Suda Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:54 AM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hcalendar disjointed Event Information formatting On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Aaron wrote: > I have marked up this page > (http://www.arnoldsportsfestival.com/home/sports-and-events/22nd-arnold-clas > sic.html) to use the include class due to having the event's information > scattered a few different places on the page. ?I'm having issues w/ certain > Microformat readers not properly identifying the include class to bring the > information together. --- can you give a list of what you are testing with? some parsers use the include pattern, some don?t. Some 'replace' the node with class="include", so make it a child. Knowing what you have tested and what works and what doesn't could better identify the problem. Also, some of your data links are missing the # reference, so this might also by why it isn?t working > Also in hcalendar what is the proper use of the category class and the > rel="tag"? ?Can't seem to find a clear description of these. --- if there is a class="category" (singular) w/o rel-tag, then it will take the text value. If there is ALSO a rel-tag then it should take the last portion of the URL. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From karstenj at microsoft.com Wed Aug 26 13:53:59 2009 From: karstenj at microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Wed Aug 26 14:18:01 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph2 -- An Update To The Mix Online Microformats Tools In-Reply-To: <4A947215.6080509@weborganics.co.uk> References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D7503ED4000@TK5EX14MBXW651.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <4A947215.6080509@weborganics.co.uk> Message-ID: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D7503ED48D0@TK5EX14MBXW651.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thanks! I hope we see more content marked up with hMedia moving forward... Regards, Karsten -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Martin McEvoy Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:22 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Announcing Oomph2 -- An Update To The Mix Online Microformats Tools Hello Karsten Karsten Januszewski wrote: > * Support for hMedia > Great stuff, a very good implementation of hMedia. Best Wishes Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From kavi at google.com Wed Aug 26 20:42:29 2009 From: kavi at google.com (Kavi Goel) Date: Wed Aug 26 20:42:35 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool Message-ID: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> Microformats friends, We have created an early version of a testing tool to allow webmasters to check that their markup is being correctly parsed by Google for use in Rich Snippets. Since many of you manage websites with microformats markup, and since you are likely to be amongst our most well-informed and opinionated users, we would love to have you try the tool out and send us suggestions, points of confusion, bugs, or any other general feedback. Testing tool: http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets A couple points to note up front: - Currently Rich Snippets supports hCard, hReview, hReview-aggregate, and hProduct. Other microformats may not be recognized by the tool. - We don't currently support the include pattern. We're happy to see comments on this email thread, or feel free to email Othar, Pravir, and myself directly. Thanks! Kavi Goel, on behalf of the Rich Snippets team From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Thu Aug 27 00:26:31 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Thu Aug 27 00:26:55 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] outstanding hCard and hCalendar issues resolved (except dtend which needs your opinion!) Message-ID: <60cb038a0908270026u199e9774ye0c3fa7af312358e@mail.gmail.com> All outstanding hCard and hCalendar issues have been resolved (except for dtend). If over the past several years you raised an issue on the wiki regarding hCard and/or hCalendar, or if you work on an hCard/hCalendar implementation, please take a look at: * http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues-resolved * http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues-resolved And review resolutions to see if you find anything you disagree with or anything left unresolved. Please make comments inline on issues and issue resolutions on the wiki. One issue in particular I want to draw your attention to: I have chosen to keep the "dtend" inconsistency issue *open* because I have changed my mind about what I think is the best resolution for it (based on additional evidence collected this year), and very much want authors and developers to review this issue, and add both their own research/evidence and opinions towards the goal of making the best decision for the community: http://microformats.org/wiki/dtend-issue I am incorporating the resolutions as follows: * Minor, informative, and clarifying brainstorming and resolutions will be applied to the existing hCard and hCalendar pages (often informative examples and FAQs) * Minor, normative changes and brainstorming that likely affect implementations will be made to 1.0.1 versions of hCard and hCalendar ** e.g. requiring implementation of the value-class-pattern. * Major changes and additions e.g. in brainstorming will be added to version 1.1 *drafts* for hCard and hCalendar ** e.g. beginning incorporation of stable draft vCard 4.0 properties into hCard 1.1 ** I'll likely track and collect 1.1 additions first on respective *-brainstorming pages before actually writing up v1.1 drafts. Note that since hCard and hCalendar are or contain building blocks used by nearly every other compound microformat, it is highly likely that many of these resolutions and fixes will make their way into iterations of most other microformats (such as hReview, hAtom, hResume, etc.) thus if you're an editor of a microformat, you should review the resolutions as well. Thanks, Tantek -- http://tantek.com/ From davidjanes at blogmatrix.com Thu Aug 27 04:18:27 2009 From: davidjanes at blogmatrix.com (David Janes) Date: Thu Aug 27 04:18:54 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] outstanding hCard and hCalendar issues resolved (except dtend which needs your opinion!) In-Reply-To: <60cb038a0908270026u199e9774ye0c3fa7af312358e@mail.gmail.com> References: <60cb038a0908270026u199e9774ye0c3fa7af312358e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e523c20908270418q421478b2j929b73f64787203e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:26 AM, Tantek ?elik wrote: > > All outstanding hCard and hCalendar issues have been resolved (except > for dtend). > > If over the past several years you raised an issue on the wiki > regarding hCard and/or hCalendar, or if you work on an hCard/hCalendar > implementation, please take a look at: > > * http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues-resolved > * http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues-resolved > > And review resolutions to see if you find anything you disagree with > or anything left unresolved. ?Please make comments inline on issues > and issue resolutions on the wiki. > > One issue in particular I want to draw your attention to: > > I have chosen to keep the "dtend" inconsistency issue *open* because I > have changed my mind about what I think is the best resolution for it > (based on additional evidence collected this year), and very much want > authors and developers to review this issue, and add both their own > research/evidence and opinions towards the goal of making the best > decision for the community: > > http://microformats.org/wiki/dtend-issue > > > > I am incorporating the resolutions as follows: > > * Minor, informative, and clarifying brainstorming and resolutions > will be applied to the existing hCard and hCalendar pages (often > informative examples and FAQs) > > * Minor, normative changes and brainstorming that likely affect > implementations will be made to 1.0.1 versions of hCard and hCalendar > ** e.g. requiring implementation of the value-class-pattern. > > * Major changes and additions e.g. in brainstorming will be added to > version 1.1 *drafts* for hCard and hCalendar > ** e.g. beginning incorporation of stable draft vCard 4.0 properties > into hCard 1.1 > ** I'll likely track and collect 1.1 additions first on respective > *-brainstorming pages before actually writing up v1.1 drafts. > > > Note that since hCard and hCalendar are or contain building blocks > used by nearly every other compound microformat, it is highly likely > that many of these resolutions and fixes will make their way into > iterations of most other microformats (such as hReview, hAtom, > hResume, etc.) thus if you're an editor of a microformat, you should > review the resolutions as well. > > > Thanks, > > Tantek > > > -- > http://tantek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss And I'll just throw it out there that a hypothetical hAtom 0.2 is waiting for everyone's opinion [1], quite frankly even if it's voting "0 I don't have an opinion". In particular: - we want to know _what_ should be included in hAtom 0.2 - we want to know _how_ to do those things - some issues that people raised need expansion My opinion is that I'd love to at least get the non-contentious stuff (if such a thing exists in the uf world) out of the way and consider doing a hAtom 0.2, then immediately start working for 0.3 with the more tetchy problems. Regards, etc... David [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues From hober0 at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 10:11:21 2009 From: hober0 at gmail.com (Edward O'Connor) Date: Thu Aug 27 10:18:44 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool In-Reply-To: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> References: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b31caf90908271011sae941d5v6d91d5fc95286238@mail.gmail.com> Hi, > We have created an early version of a testing tool to allow webmasters > to check that their markup is being correctly parsed by Google for use > in Rich Snippets. Wow, very nice. Thanks for making this available! > We would love to have you try the tool out and send us suggestions, > points of confusion, bugs, or any other general feedback. Does the tool support hCard's additional-name? I don't see any of the middle names from in the results. I'm also surprised by some results for . Thanks again, Edward O'Connor From kevinmarks at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 12:06:32 2009 From: kevinmarks at gmail.com (Kevin Marks) Date: Thu Aug 27 12:06:36 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool In-Reply-To: <3b31caf90908271011sae941d5v6d91d5fc95286238@mail.gmail.com> References: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> <3b31caf90908271011sae941d5v6d91d5fc95286238@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <73766b160908271206y28e3a6ddracc7c31b5a96cb81@mail.gmail.com> Great tool guys. I tried it on my original hReviews, - looks like your rating extraction is not honouring the abbr title pattern - it shows you seeing my unicode stars, not the title='4' http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fepeus.blogspot.com%2F2005%2F04%2Frevisiting-waugh-and-armstrong.html On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Edward O'Connor wrote: > Hi, > >> We have created an early version of a testing tool to allow webmasters >> to check that their markup is being correctly parsed by Google for use >> in Rich Snippets. > > Wow, very nice. Thanks for making this available! > >> We would love to have you try the tool out and send us suggestions, >> points of confusion, bugs, or any other general feedback. > > Does the tool support hCard's additional-name? I don't see any of the > middle names from in the results. I'm > also surprised by some results for . > > > Thanks again, > Edward O'Connor > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From chris.ruppel at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 12:24:07 2009 From: chris.ruppel at gmail.com (Chris Ruppel) Date: Thu Aug 27 12:30:48 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool In-Reply-To: <73766b160908271206y28e3a6ddracc7c31b5a96cb81@mail.gmail.com> References: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> <3b31caf90908271011sae941d5v6d91d5fc95286238@mail.gmail.com> <73766b160908271206y28e3a6ddracc7c31b5a96cb81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: First, another echo for the great work that went into this tool! I noticed another issue with the results of Kevin's test: the dtreviewed value isn't getting parsed into a human-readable date in the sample result. Here's a sample with a human-friendly date for comparison (it may be due to the dashes in my dtreviewed value) http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwhichtwitterapp.com%2Freviews%2Fadobe-air%2Ftweetdeck-desktop Chris On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Kevin Marks wrote: > Great tool guys. > > I tried it on my original hReviews, - looks like your rating > extraction is not honouring the abbr title pattern - it shows you > seeing my unicode stars, not the title='4' > > > http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fepeus.blogspot.com%2F2005%2F04%2Frevisiting-waugh-and-armstrong.html > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Edward O'Connor wrote: >> Hi, >> >>> We have created an early version of a testing tool to allow webmasters >>> to check that their markup is being correctly parsed by Google for use >>> in Rich Snippets. >> >> Wow, very nice. Thanks for making this available! >> >>> We would love to have you try the tool out and send us suggestions, >>> points of confusion, bugs, or any other general feedback. >> >> Does the tool support hCard's additional-name? I don't see any of the >> middle names from in the results. I'm >> also surprised by some results for . >> >> >> Thanks again, >> Edward O'Connor >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From nobrega.luis at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 15:35:22 2009 From: nobrega.luis at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?THXtcyBO82JyZWdh?=) Date: Sat Aug 29 15:35:30 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] microformat related to tourism itinerarys Message-ID: <3477c4040908291535h57a2c66dvc762f5413e37ec54@mail.gmail.com> Hi there! I was thinking if there is already a microformat related to tourism, more specifically, to tourism itinerarys. In the meanwhile I've collected some information(1) about it: - The problem(2) to be solved; - And real world examples(3). What do you think about it? Is it useful? Thanks in advance for your time! Lu?s N?brega (1) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary (2) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary#Itinerary_Problem (3) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary-examples From jeremy at adactio.com Sat Aug 29 16:25:33 2009 From: jeremy at adactio.com (Jeremy Keith) Date: Sat Aug 29 16:25:39 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] microformat related to tourism itinerarys In-Reply-To: <3477c4040908291535h57a2c66dvc762f5413e37ec54@mail.gmail.com> References: <3477c4040908291535h57a2c66dvc762f5413e37ec54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <121AC188-794D-44C5-A0B2-E4B3CEFFD15F@adactio.com> Lu?s wrote: > I was thinking if there is already a microformat related to tourism, > more specifically, to tourism itinerarys. This is already solved by hCalendar (dates) and hCard/adr/geo (places). There's no need for a more specific format when more general formats are already in place. What do you think about it? Is it useful? It's useful information that should be marked up with microformats but we've already got everything we need to do that with existing microformats. Bye, Jeremy -- Jeremy Keith a d a c t i o http://adactio.com/ From chris.ruppel at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 16:36:54 2009 From: chris.ruppel at gmail.com (Chris Ruppel) Date: Sat Aug 29 16:36:57 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] microformat related to tourism itinerarys In-Reply-To: <3477c4040908291535h57a2c66dvc762f5413e37ec54@mail.gmail.com> References: <3477c4040908291535h57a2c66dvc762f5413e37ec54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that a combination of hCalendar, hCard and possibly hReview would satisfy the functionality you're imagining. - Each event would have one location, or at least one general region with more than one specific location. - Each specific specific location has an address, or at least a name. Address, locality, region, and geo provide your "where" information. - If you want to write notes about the places you visit on the trip, that is essentially a review, be it a place of business, a concert, etc. - rel-tag could be used on more than one of these, allowing you to specify attractions or recreational activities for each day of travel, location visited, or both. In general, I believe the main effort behind microformats goes into defining concrete units of information (people, places, events), instead of purpose-driven composites. That's what makes it so easy to present data that can be "searched for, saved, cross-referenced or combined" - http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction#What_are_Microformats.3F Many of the desired behaviors you defined could be accomplished by relating the standard microformats in a travel-specific manner. Chris Ruppel 2009/8/29 Lu?s N?brega : > Hi there! > > > I was thinking if there is already a microformat related to tourism, > more specifically, to tourism itinerarys. > > In the meanwhile I've collected some information(1) about it: > > - The problem(2) to be solved; > - And real world examples(3). > > > What do you think about it? Is it useful? > > > Thanks in advance for your time! > > Lu?s N?brega > > (1) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary > (2) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary#Itinerary_Problem > (3) http://microformats.org/wiki/itinerary-examples > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From glenn.jones at madgex.com Mon Aug 31 00:41:53 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Mon Aug 31 00:48:20 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool In-Reply-To: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> References: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF039185B6@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi First I would just I like to say great job on Rich Snippets it is a big step forward for the semantic web. A while back I started building a test-suite for testing microformats parsers. You may find it useful - http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/. When are viewing a test-fixture page like http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/hcard1.htm press alt-x to get the test runner. The link to UfXtract parser API (my own) is broken at the moment so it is incorrectly showing fail on everything. I had a quick look through the hCard tests to get a feel of where you're at. Hopefully the notes I made below are useful. hCard 1 [http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/hcard1.htm] The vcard.n is not correctly supporting the Implied "n" Optimization http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implied_.22n.22_Optimization Returns vcard.role, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.uid, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.n, but is not mark as a support property in documentation hCard 2 The vcard.email property is displayed but returns no value Returns vcard.tel, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.email incorrectly and it is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.urls, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.category, but is not mark as a support property in documentation hCard 3 The vcard.adr[0].post-office-box property returns no value incorrectly The vcard.adr[0].extended-address property returns no value incorrectly hCard 4 hCard.n.honorific-prefix[0] property is displayed but returns no value hCard6 Fails all 6 test on vcard.email[0].value and vcard.email[0].type hCard13 The vcard.tel[0].type[0] property is not support even though the tel value is hCard 10 It hard to tell which of these failed because of the order in which the results are display does not match the page order. hCard 18 Fails all 4 test using table header includes hCard 20 Fails all 3 test using hyperlink include hCard 21 Fails all 6 test for opaque/embedded hCards I like the error massaging you add to the Rich Snippets Testing Tool, I have found a number of places where the tests need fn properties. If you have any question please feel free to contact me. If we continue this on the list, it may be better to move it over the dev list. Glenn Jones PS - Yes Tantek, I will add this to the wiki later and email the list back with a URL :-) From glenn.jones at madgex.com Mon Aug 31 05:36:23 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Mon Aug 31 05:56:55 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool In-Reply-To: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> References: <199b56630908262042i4e198f62o58e61e421281e62e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF039185BC@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi All I created a page on the wiki to capture issues in the standard wiki format. Kavi you and your team can close down or disregard the items as you see fit. The community have found helpful to capture issue in this format in the past as email threads can get lost or duplicated. http://microformats.org/wiki/google-rich-snippets-issues Glenn Jones