From jesse at wezaggle.com Wed Sep 2 17:53:39 2009 From: jesse at wezaggle.com (Jesse Hammons) Date: Wed Sep 2 17:53:44 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hevent aggregation and search? Message-ID: I was pretty excited to learn that hevent's are indexed by searchmonkey at last night's microformats dinner. Does anyone have pointers on people/projects that have deal with searching for hevents? Ideally I would like to search for events in a given region and a given time range, I haven't been about to figure out a way to do that with the BOSS api. thanks! -Jesse http://boss.yahooapis.com/ysearch/web/v1/red+searchmonkeyid:com.yahoo.page.uf.hcalendar?appid=%200UNA8NDV34Hg9Ppoxy66LMqfi1vvj6SVq8IL1z7oEsBJ9Uv4sWHU41t6H27t27onBUIT&format=xml&start=0&count=15&view=keyterms%2Csearchmonkey_feed%2Csearchmonkey_rdf -- Jesse Hammons time to see your friends! http://www.wezaggle.com From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Mon Sep 7 04:32:11 2009 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Mon Sep 7 04:32:13 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] microformats.org hacked! Message-ID: Seems to have fallen victim to the current WordPress security problem. -- Toby A Inkster From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Mon Sep 7 09:43:56 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Mon Sep 7 09:44:19 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] microformats.org hacked! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60cb038a0909070943w614386a6w389b97b58626d91d@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Toby Inkster wrote: > Seems to have fallen victim to the current WordPress security problem. Thanks for the heads-up Toby. Ben Ward had already updated our WordPress install to 2.8.4 a couple of days ago, so I'm not sure if the attack still got through, or if what you were seeing were remnants of an attack before upgrade. I've cleaned up the permalinks problem as discussed here: http://www.journeyetc.com/uncategorized/wordpress-permalink-rss-problems/ and double-checked the list of users/admins for anything out of place. If you see any other remaining signs of the current WordPress security problem, please feel free to send specifics to me or Ben Ward. Thanks, Tantek From glenn.jones at madgex.com Tue Sep 8 03:49:02 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Tue Sep 8 03:51:28 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi All The company I am part of has just released the first implementation of a new product called CV Search and Match for the Guardian newspaper group. It is a next generation CV database for the job board industry. http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ The interesting bit for the list is that it can import hResume as a starting point for creating your online CV. The "Import your CV from another website" feature can parse hResume data from any public web page. We have also added NLP (Natural Language Processing) as a fall back if there is no hResume. The microformat import is done using my UfXtract parser. This is first of many sites we will be adding this type of functionality to over the next few months. At the moment I believe Linked-in are the biggest publishers of hResume although I know a lot of individuals also publish their CV's using the hResume format. Please give it a go and give me feedback. You can try it even if you do not want to be contacted by employers by switching the CV to "hidden" once you finishing playing or you can delete all your CV data at any time. Glenn Jones Madgex From info at csarven.ca Tue Sep 8 04:31:41 2009 From: info at csarven.ca (Sarven Capadisli) Date: Tue Sep 8 04:31:50 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 11:49 +0100, Glenn Jones wrote: > Hi All > > The company I am part of has just released the first implementation of a > new product called CV Search and Match for the Guardian newspaper group. > It is a next generation CV database for the job board industry. > > http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ > > The interesting bit for the list is that it can import hResume as a > starting point for creating your online CV. The "Import your CV from > another website" feature can parse hResume data from any public web > page. We have also added NLP (Natural Language Processing) as a fall > back if there is no hResume. The microformat import is done using my > UfXtract parser. > > This is first of many sites we will be adding this type of functionality > to over the next few months. At the moment I believe Linked-in are the > biggest publishers of hResume although I know a lot of individuals also > publish their CV's using the hResume format. > > Please give it a go and give me feedback. You can try it even if you do > not want to be contacted by employers by switching the CV to "hidden" > once you finishing playing or you can delete all your CV data at any > time. Neat. Quick feedback: I tried it on http://csarven.ca/cv and it seems to pick up only a few of the org vCards. It'd be great if it picked up the personal and contact details of vcard with .uid on the page. Skills didn't pick up. Education level didn't pick up. -Sarven From david at dsingleton.co.uk Tue Sep 8 05:21:45 2009 From: david at dsingleton.co.uk (David Singleton) Date: Tue Sep 8 05:21:51 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import In-Reply-To: <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> Message-ID: <104235c20909080521l3bbe4954s1802514c98d12af3@mail.gmail.com> Looks pretty interesting. My CV isn't marked up with hResume at the moment, i'll fix that and give it a go. 2009/9/8 Sarven Capadisli : > On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 11:49 +0100, Glenn Jones wrote: >> Hi All >> >> The company I am part of has just released the first implementation of a >> new product called CV Search and Match for the Guardian newspaper group. >> It is a next generation CV database for the job board industry. >> >> http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ >> >> The interesting bit for the list is that it can import hResume as a >> starting point for creating your online CV. The "Import your CV from >> another website" feature can parse hResume data from any public web >> page. We have also added NLP (Natural Language Processing) as a fall >> back if there is no hResume. The microformat import is done using my >> UfXtract parser. >> >> This is first of many sites we will be adding this type of functionality >> to over the next few months. At the moment I believe Linked-in are the >> biggest publishers of hResume although I know a lot of individuals also >> publish their CV's using the hResume format. >> >> Please give it a go and give me feedback. You can try it even if you do >> not want to be contacted by employers by switching the CV to "hidden" >> once you finishing playing or you can delete all your CV data at any >> time. > > Neat. Quick feedback: > > I tried it on http://csarven.ca/cv and it seems to pick up only a few of > the org vCards. > > It'd be great if it picked up the personal and contact details of vcard > with .uid on the page. > > Skills didn't pick up. > > Education level didn't pick up. > > -Sarven > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- David Singleton david@dsingleton.co.uk From glenn.jones at madgex.com Wed Sep 9 03:54:59 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Wed Sep 9 03:56:45 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import In-Reply-To: <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F52C@MOBY.Clarence.local> > Sarven wrote: > Neat. Quick feedback: > I tried it on http://csarven.ca/cv and it seems to pick up only a few of > the org vCards. The parser is picking up your mark-up. For example I can see that you have use hcard/org to mark-up educational institution names. http://ufxtract.com/api/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcsarven.ca%2Fcv&format=hresume &output=xml It's just the mapping from raw microformat data to our CV structure has not made the best use of your mark-up. I will update our application. > It'd be great if it picked up the personal and contact details of vcard > with .uid on the page. The hResume spec looks for a hCard using which is marked up with the class "contact". I could extend the parser to follow the Representative hCard rules, but I things its better if you mark-up a hCard for hResume. The "contact" hCard is required and technically a hResume is invalid without it. > Skills didn't pick up. You need to add rel="tag" to your skill links. This only half the problem because if you review the http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag page and read the "Tag Spaces" section you will find skills can be very difficult to define in real world use. This is because the skill is not the text of the link but the last segment of the URL structure. Not correct use Ubuntu Correct use - has rel-tag and a tag namespace in the URL structure > Education level didn't pick up. The education level is not part of the hResume structure. I could infer an education level by using the NPL function on the education elements of the hResume. So far I have resisted mixture explicit structured data from Microformats with the more implicit data parsed by the NPL functionality. I am worried what user expectation would be. > -Sarven Thanks for the feedback very useful. Glenn From info at csarven.ca Wed Sep 9 05:43:27 2009 From: info at csarven.ca (Sarven Capadisli) Date: Wed Sep 9 05:43:35 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F52C@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F23C@MOBY.Clarence.local> <1252409501.4032.7.camel@csarven-laptop> <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF0398F52C@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <1252500207.4401.46.camel@csarven-laptop> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 11:54 +0100, Glenn Jones wrote: > > Sarven wrote: > > Neat. Quick feedback: > > > I tried it on http://csarven.ca/cv and it seems to pick up only a few > of > > the org vCards. > > The parser is picking up your mark-up. For example I can see that you > have use hcard/org to mark-up educational institution names. > http://ufxtract.com/api/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcsarven.ca%2Fcv&format=hresume > &output=xml > > It's just the mapping from raw microformat data to our CV structure has > not made the best use of your mark-up. I will update our application. > > > It'd be great if it picked up the personal and contact details of > vcard > > with .uid on the page. > > The hResume spec looks for a hCard using which is marked up with the > class "contact". I could extend the parser to follow the Representative > hCard rules, but I things its better if you mark-up a hCard for hResume. > The "contact" hCard is required and technically a hResume is invalid > without it. But, the CV does have a 'contact': hresume address + hCard though, not necessarily a class="contact". >From what I can tell, the draft spec is not very clear about this. For instance, the field details doesn't mention class="contact" and neither does the Contact example. Representative hCard may be sufficient for hresume contact (updated: http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hresume-issues&diff=40740&oldid=37958 ) and it might resolve Open Issue 2006-10-19 raised by Steve Ganz http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues > > Skills didn't pick up. > > You need to add rel="tag" to your skill links. This only half the > problem because if you review the http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag > page and read the "Tag Spaces" section you will find skills can be very > difficult to define in real world use. This is because the skill is not > the text of the link but the last segment of the URL structure. > > Not correct use > Ubuntu > > Correct use - has rel-tag and a tag namespace in the URL structure > > Thanks for the heads-up. Updated. > > Education level didn't pick up. > > The education level is not part of the hResume structure. I could infer > an education level by using the NPL function on the education elements > of the hResume. So far I have resisted mixture explicit structured data > from Microformats with the more implicit data parsed by the NPL > functionality. I am worried what user expectation would be. I was referring to your NLP function. Presenting additional data outside of structured data is probably a plus given that structured data has a higher priority. I'm sure there are different view camps about this but worth to test, at least in this specific case =) > Thanks for the feedback very useful. > > Glenn > Thanks, -Sarven From black_death_slayer at hotmail.com Wed Sep 9 05:47:25 2009 From: black_death_slayer at hotmail.com (black_death_slayer@hotmail.com) Date: Wed Sep 9 05:47:29 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Antwoord bij afwezigheid In-Reply-To: <200909091245.n89CjYw5024285@microformats.org> Message-ID: From goer at yahoo-inc.com Wed Sep 9 09:45:34 2009 From: goer at yahoo-inc.com (Evan Goer) Date: Wed Sep 9 09:46:58 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Re: hevent aggregation and search? In-Reply-To: <200909091245.n89CjYw5024285@microformats.org> References: <200909091245.n89CjYw5024285@microformats.org> Message-ID: <7085DF4A-9288-4C29-9D8A-3124CF4E21AB@yahoo-inc.com> > I was pretty excited to learn that hevent's are indexed by > searchmonkey at last night's microformats dinner. Does anyone have > pointers on people/projects that have deal with searching for hevents? > Ideally I would like to search for events in a given region and a > given time range, I haven't been about to figure out a way to do that > with the BOSS api. > > thanks! > -Jesse > > http://boss.yahooapis.com/ysearch/web/v1/red+searchmonkeyid:com.yahoo.page.uf.hcalendar?appid=%200UNA8NDV34Hg9Ppoxy66LMqfi1vvj6SVq8IL1z7oEsBJ9Uv4sWHU41t6H27t27onBUIT&format=xml&start=0&count=15&view=keyterms%2Csearchmonkey_feed%2Csearchmonkey_rdf > > -- > Jesse Hammons > time to see your friends! http://www.wezaggle.com Hi Jesse, Right now "searchmonkey:com.yahoo.page.uf." works as a simple filter. You can't do fancy queries like, "Give me all events with a title of 'Jesse's Birthday'" -- what you can do is, "Give me all pages with hcalendar that *also* have the text 'Jesse's Birthday' somewhere on the page." So it's kind of crude. That said, using "searchmonkey:" plus some query terms can be surprisingly interesting & effective. hcalendar searches can be nifty, but I also like hresume searches (hresume + "php", etc.) You could potentially use BOSS to mine out hcalendar data from various sites -- since BOSS returns the hcalendar in DataRSS XML, you could then store that info and do fancier operations. BOSS has no QPD limit, so go nuts. :) As a side note, I recommend using "searchmonkey:" rather than "searchmonkeyid:" -- the latter has been deprecated for a number of months, though it's safe to use right now. Evan Goer Yahoo! SearchMonkey Team From hober0 at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 11:08:17 2009 From: hober0 at gmail.com (Edward O'Connor) Date: Wed Sep 9 11:14:34 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] normalization of implied property optimizations in hCard & hAtom Message-ID: <3b31caf90909091108v4942a627sb241e245777a05f5@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, vCard's "n" property is required, but in hCard it may be implied by markup other than an explicit class="n", via the various implied "n" optimization rules[0]. There's a similar situation in hAtom with regard to "updated": Atom requires an in each entry, and in hAtom, if there's no explicit "updated", hAtom processors are encouraged to resort to using the entry's "published" value for "updated" as well. Nevertheless, these situations are described differently in each spec. I think it might help microformat spec readers for these situations to be presented similarly in both specs, perhaps by updating hAtom to have an explicit "Implied 'updated' Optimization" section. -- Ted 0. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implied_.22n.22_Optimization From karstenj at microsoft.com Tue Sep 22 16:56:02 2009 From: karstenj at microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Tue Sep 22 16:57:08 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats Message-ID: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Hey All - I was just on MySpace and noticed that /some/ profile pages are now formatted using hCard - for example: http://www.myspace.com/irhetoric. It appears that newly created MySpace profile pages are using Microformats now. However, lots of other profile pages don't use Microformats -- I'm guessing they are generated using a different codebase. I just posted a thread on the forums (http://developer.myspace.com/Community/forums/p/9026/43520.aspx) to see what folks say, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the press, etc. Nonetheless -- another big win for Microformats adoption! Karsten From scott at randomchaos.com Tue Sep 22 17:47:36 2009 From: scott at randomchaos.com (Scott Reynen) Date: Tue Sep 22 17:47:43 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats In-Reply-To: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > I was just on MySpace and noticed that /some/ profile pages are now > formatted using hCard - for example: http://www.myspace.com/ > irhetoric. It appears that newly created MySpace profile pages are > using Microformats now. However, lots of other profile pages don't > use Microformats -- I'm guessing they are generated using a > different codebase. I just posted a thread on the forums (http://developer.myspace.com/Community/forums/p/9026/43520.aspx > ) to see what folks say, but I couldn't find any mention of it in > the press, etc. Nonetheless -- another big win for Microformats > adoption! Nice. I've done a lot of scraping of MySpace. In my experience, they roll out changes *very* gradually, over the course of weeks, if not months. So hopefully the microformat markup is part of the new version and will be everywhere relatively soon. Peace, Scott From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Tue Sep 22 18:08:30 2009 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Tue Sep 22 18:08:44 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats In-Reply-To: References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <5068BF9C-9DB1-4659-9866-3130B0925837@ben-ward.co.uk> On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:47, Scott Reynen wrote: > On Sep 22, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Karsten Januszewski wrote: > >> I was just on MySpace and noticed that /some/ profile pages are now >> formatted using hCard - for example: http://www.myspace.com/ >> irhetoric. It appears that newly created MySpace profile pages are >> using Microformats now. However, lots of other profile pages don't >> use Microformats -- I'm guessing they are generated using a >> different codebase. I just posted a thread on the forums (http://developer.myspace.com/Community/forums/p/9026/43520.aspx >> ) to see what folks say, but I couldn't find any mention of it in >> the press, etc. Nonetheless -- another big win for Microformats >> adoption! > > Nice. I've done a lot of scraping of MySpace. In my experience, > they roll out changes *very* gradually, over the course of weeks, if > not months. So hopefully the microformat markup is part of the new > version and will be everywhere relatively soon. MySpace has a branched codebase for profiles, the newer versions simply referred to as ?Profiles 2.0?. 2.0 has been live for a while now, and upgrading from an old form profile to a new 2.0 form is actually in control of the MySpace user, not MySpace as a service. The reason for this being that the MySpace community is heavily based around profile visual customizations, all of which depend on the old mark-up. If MySpace ever upgraded all users to the new profiles there'd be outrage because people would lose their page designs. The number of third party templates for Profiles 2.0 is smaller than Profiles 1.0. So again, the incentive to switch is taking time to build up. That Microformats are there in the new template though is great news! B From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Tue Sep 22 22:09:26 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Tue Sep 22 22:09:38 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats In-Reply-To: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <1898250339-1253682569-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-828751489-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Karsten, That is great news! Could you add MySpace to the list of hCard supporting user profiles on the wiki? http://tr.im/hcards and note your profile as an example? Thanks, Tantek -----Original Message----- From: Karsten Januszewski Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:56:02 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats Hey All - I was just on MySpace and noticed that /some/ profile pages are now formatted using hCard - for example: http://www.myspace.com/irhetoric. It appears that newly created MySpace profile pages are using Microformats now. However, lots of other profile pages don't use Microformats -- I'm guessing they are generated using a different codebase. I just posted a thread on the forums (http://developer.myspace.com/Community/forums/p/9026/43520.aspx) to see what folks say, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the press, etc. Nonetheless -- another big win for Microformats adoption! Karsten _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From karstenj at microsoft.com Wed Sep 23 09:49:27 2009 From: karstenj at microsoft.com (Karsten Januszewski) Date: Wed Sep 23 09:49:41 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats In-Reply-To: <1898250339-1253682569-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-828751489-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863B493@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <1898250339-1253682569-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-828751489-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <818F00D9E83D494A8C74DA34C3582D751863CE3F@TK5EX14MBXW652.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Done! -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Tantek Celik Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:09 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats Karsten, That is great news! Could you add MySpace to the list of hCard supporting user profiles on the wiki? http://tr.im/hcards and note your profile as an example? Thanks, Tantek -----Original Message----- From: Karsten Januszewski Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:56:02 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: [uf-discuss] MySpace and Microformats Hey All - I was just on MySpace and noticed that /some/ profile pages are now formatted using hCard - for example: http://www.myspace.com/irhetoric. It appears that newly created MySpace profile pages are using Microformats now. However, lots of other profile pages don't use Microformats -- I'm guessing they are generated using a different codebase. I just posted a thread on the forums (http://developer.myspace.com/Community/forums/p/9026/43520.aspx) to see what folks say, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the press, etc. Nonetheless -- another big win for Microformats adoption! Karsten _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From glenn.jones at madgex.com Fri Sep 25 06:03:54 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Fri Sep 25 06:07:02 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hResume skills property issues Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03ACD7B9@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi all I would like to try and move the hResume microformat forward and deal with some of the outstanding issues. I have placed the contents of this email into a wiki page. Please feedback your thoughts on my suggestions. http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-skill-brainstorm Tagspace issue. When you review how skills are authored in resume they are equally expressed either as terms or narrative sentences. The following examples where taken from a small sample [1] of online resumes: * Object development * CSS * C# developer with 5 years team commercial experience * Quick to recognize problems and execute solutions * English - Very good * Speak, read and write English fluently As Ciaran McNulty mentioned in the hResume issues page," in reality authors end up linking to places like Wikipedia". You are also unlikely to create a tagspace just to support the publishing of your resume. I think this is true whether you're adding a resume to a blog or building a large resume hosting service. On top of which tagspaces do not work well with the narrative style of expressing skills used by some authors. Although rel-tag can create interesting cross linkages it is no use if it cannot be practically used for the majority of use cases when authoring a human readable document. I would suggest that a simple text property is used instead of the rel-tag. This would be a more practical solution, as below:

Application development

C# developer with 5 years team commercial experience

Separating language from skills If you have read many resumes you will appreciate how varied the labelling of skills sections are. There is one common division that I think should be reflected in the schema, the separation of languages from other skills. >From a sample of 10,000 structured resume's entered into one of our systems 42% entered a skill, 35.2% entered a language skill and 18.9% entered a professional skill. This system is based in Europe and has an international reach. Please remember that structured entry systems can encourage a bias that would not be seen in a sample of freeform resumes. Even the small sample [1] of 10 freeform resumes picked at random had 3 that listed language skills. We could redesign 'skills' into two separate properties; 'skills' and' language' and use a common compound structure "competency" to describe both or we could use the type pattern to define the type of skill. Using a competency structure

Application development >

French

So the hResume spec would have two properties; ' skills' and 'language' which would be of the type competency, just like the contact property in hResume is of the type hCard Using a type pattern

Application development skill

French - language

I think that the type pattern would be very verbose with large lists of skills therefore I would suggest the creation of the competency structure. Rating skills Rating skills are very common, it helps to give the reader an understanding of the level of competency claimed by the author. The Microformats community already has a nice rating pattern in hReview that can be applied to a competency structure. It allows a value of (0.0 - 5.0) to be applied to an item.

Application development - Basic

French - Fluent

I wish I could backup the use of ratings with a good set of stats. Our structured resumes place an optional rating next to each skill entered. The UI of these systems encourages users to rate their skills and gives a bias to any results. Consequently, 97.7% of skills in our sample 10,000 structured resumes are rated by authors. I did look at using a Natural Language Parser to exact some stats from a collection of freeform resumes, but the error rate on parsing skills ratings is high and would not give a true result. Therefore the only reliable stats I have are that 2 out of my 10 randomly picked online resumes used ratings. Durations It is common to express skills in terms of years/months of experience. This can be industry specific and is most often found in IT. It would be relatively simple to add an ISO Duration to the competency structure. We already use this data format in hCalendar.

Application development - 3 Years

Again, I am unable to back this up with a good set of stats. Duration is less commonly used than rating, but is still important in certain industry sectors. I would like to purpose a new competency structure to replace the current 'skills' property in hResume. We add two separate properties skills and language that use a common structure "competency" * competency * Summary (text) * Rating (0.0 to 5.0) * Duration (ISO Duration)

Application development - Intimidate

Application development - 3 Years

French - Fluent

Implied competency optimization It would be worth considering a new implied optimization rule for competency similar to the one used on the org property in hCard. Where an author only wants to use a value without rating or duration the summary property can be omitted and the value placed directly in the parent element, i.e. both structures below would be valid.

French -

French

[1] Madgex, the company I work for, hold approximately 4 million resumes across a number of job boards we host for our clients. I can, under some circumstances, do analysis of this data as long as it falls within the use prescribed by EU/UK data protection laws. I cannot publish examples from this data. Therefore, I picked 10 random online resumes as a point of reference. These resume have all been written freeform, come from different industries and represent individuals from different nationalities. Janne Kotiaho - Professor http://users.jyu.fi/~jkotiaho/cv.html Donald Henslay- Aviation Consultant http://www.safeskyllc.com/don's_resume.htm Jeremy Nevill Software - Architect http://www.nevill.co.uk/ Tristan Nitot - Company President http://www.nitot.com/cv/ Lezli Renee (Thomas) Gill - Teacher http://www.valdosta.edu/~lrgill/Resume.html Lucie Moussu - Assistant Professor http://www.moussu.net/TP/curriculumvitae.html Susan Sparkes-Hoskin - Business Development http://www.telusplanet.net/public/shoskins/Sue_Hoskins_Resume_2008.rtf Jeff Colen - Tour Promotions http://www.jcolen.com/Resume.htm Michael Barnett - Sales Training http://www.michaelcbarnett.com/resume Okwaisie Timothy - Metallurgist http://www.min-eng.com/cvs/okwaisie.doc Thanks Glenn Jones From volvox at poczta.fm Sun Sep 27 14:20:17 2009 From: volvox at poczta.fm (Volvox) Date: Sun Sep 27 14:20:23 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Problem with using class tel Message-ID: (sorry for my poor english) Hey I have question about correct usage of class="tel" in hCard microformat. After reading wiki i think it should look like this: Cell (061) 99 99 99 But what if i dont want "Cell" word, and i would like diffrent? Do i really have to hide this 'type' span and make another before 'tel' with my text? komCell999 999 999 Or maybe anyone got better ideas? Can you also explain me why telephones in hCard are done so strange? In adress, city, zip code and all others hCard elements i have only to add proper class name to correct object. Why in telephones there is mandatory text in object with class 'type'? Wouldn't be better to make it like this: 999 999 999 999 999 999 or 999 999 999 999 999 999 In both examples there is no redundant "Cell" or "Work" words, which have to be hidden for non-english speaking peoples. Volvox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bezplatne konto i limit do 100 tys. Otwierasz? http://link.interia.pl/f2342 From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Sun Sep 27 21:11:13 2009 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Sun Sep 27 21:11:24 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Problem with using class tel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4419BE97-E0F3-435F-8893-4408413B3BED@ben-ward.co.uk> Hi Volvox, On 27 Sep 2009, at 14:20, Volvox wrote: > Cell (061) 99 99 99 > But what if i dont want "Cell" word, and i would like diffrent? Do i > really have to hide this 'type' span and make another before 'tel' > with my text? > kom class="type">Cell999 999 999 > Or maybe anyone got better ideas? Two options: 1. You do not have to include the ?type? at all. You can just do: (061) 99 99 99 I feel that it is, at that this point in history, increasingly irrelevant whether a telephone number is a mobile telephone or a landline. The ?work? and ?fax? indications are more relevant, perhaps. 2. You can embed the type using the value-class-pattern Like so: (061) 99 99 99 Telephone type is one of the properties for which this pattern is valid. > Why in telephones there is mandatory text in object with class 'type'? It's not mandatory. The structure is inherited from vcard's property semantics in combination with the microformats principal of visible data. However, I agree that this particular detail was a massive internationalisation oversight to require en-us strings in page content. Requiring language specific visible content should be regarded as an anti-pattern for all future microformats developments. Ben