From mark at markwunsch.com Tue Mar 2 07:07:55 2010 From: mark at markwunsch.com (Mark Wunsch) Date: Tue Mar 2 07:08:23 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Introducing Prism: Microformat Parser and Library for Ruby Message-ID: <1b7e4d861003020707m7a06e21eq611142566543a6fb@mail.gmail.com> I'm really pleased to announce the first minor dot release of Prism, a new Microformat parser, library, and command line tool for the Ruby programming language. http://github.com/mwunsch/prism Prism is a Microformat parser and "html toolkit" backed by the powerful Nokogiri libxml2 parser (http://nokogiri.org). It defines a DSL (a domain-specific language) for parsing POSH formats, and comes included with support for several Microformats. Right now (v0.1.0) it supports: + rel-tag + rel-license + VoteLinks + XFN + XOXO + XMDP + geo + adr + hCard With support for more forthcoming. To get started, just make sure you have Ruby installed on your system and run `gem install prism` (you might need `sudo`). ## Using the command line tool ## prism --hcard http://markwunsch.com > ~/Desktop/mark.vcf Go ahead and try that: you can add me to your address book. Prism's CLI (command line interface) allows you to convert hcards to vcards (more coming soon, of course). Type `prism` to see a general help page. Man pages are in the works. I urge you all to check out Prism, run it and see if it parses to your expectations. If not, please open an issue on GitHub (http://github.com/mwunsch/prism/issues). Priorities for the next release include smarter handling of ISO8601, Geo, and E.123, and passing all of the Value Class pattern tests (http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern-tests). Following that, I plan on focusing on getting hCalendar and hAtom support in. Thanks for checking it out and I encourage contribution! Thanks, -Mark Wunsch @markwunsch on Twitter http://github.com/mwunsch mwunsch on Freenode From sedison-albright at mcic.org Wed Mar 10 13:33:39 2010 From: sedison-albright at mcic.org (Sean Edison-Albright) Date: Wed Mar 10 13:33:46 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number Message-ID: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> I'm coding up an hcard for my organization, and would like to list two phone numbers: one for general contact and one for help desk requests. It seems like both of these would be tel of type work, so that wouldn't distinguish them... is there a preferred way of indicating/labeling which is which? Sean From brian.suda at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 14:06:02 2010 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Wed Mar 10 14:06:07 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number In-Reply-To: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> References: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> Message-ID: <21e770781003101406l4f3b4254q3ba219c0bde3cece@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Sean Edison-Albright wrote: > I'm coding up an hcard for my organization, and would like to list two phone > numbers: one for general contact and one for help desk requests. ?It seems > like both of these would be tel of type work, so that wouldn't distinguish > them... is there a preferred way of indicating/labeling which is which? there is a "pref" meaning preferred, but I am not sure how applications would display this. You can see some examples here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#type_subproperty_values -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From paul.m.wilkins at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 14:20:07 2010 From: paul.m.wilkins at gmail.com (Paul Wilkins) Date: Wed Mar 10 14:20:32 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number In-Reply-To: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> References: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> Message-ID: On 11 March 2010 10:33, Sean Edison-Albright wrote: > > I'm coding up an hcard for my organization, and would like to list two phone numbers: one for general contact and one for help desk requests. ?It seems like both of these would be tel of type work, so that wouldn't distinguish them... is there a preferred way of indicating/labeling which is which? I believe that there is a label that can be applied for each phone number. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues-resolved?has an entry starting with "RFC2426?allows TYPE for LABEL" which covers the need to update the hCard specification so that they are formally used in the same manner in which they are used in the vCard specification. -- Paul Wilkins From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Wed Mar 10 15:55:22 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Wed Mar 10 15:55:30 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number In-Reply-To: References: <4B981033.6010402@mcic.org> Message-ID: <1268265322.27087.107.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 11:20 +1300, Paul Wilkins wrote: > I believe that there is a label that can be applied for each phone > number. > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues-resolved has an entry > starting with "RFC2426 allows TYPE for LABEL" which covers the need to > update the hCard specification so that they are formally used in the > same manner in which they are used in the vCard specification. I think you're misinterpreting that issue. It refers to the fact that the label property (for address labels) can have types. e.g.
Joe Bloggs Home 123 Test Street, Testville Work 45 Example Lane, Testville
The label property differs from adr in that it's not broken down into subproperties (street-address, etc). Here's how I'd do it:

My Org

General Enquiries: 01234 567 890

Help Desk 01234 567 899

-- Toby A Inkster From dave.corboy at ziplist.com Thu Mar 11 13:37:16 2010 From: dave.corboy at ziplist.com (Dave Corboy) Date: Thu Mar 11 13:37:24 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe Message-ID: I'm the development lead for a small company that has an interest in the establishment and adoption of a recipe-based microformat. Our research has led us to hRecipe and found it to be great, however we have need for a number of additional properties (which may -- or may not -- have broader applicability). One option we have is simply to publish (for our web customers) our recommendation for semantic HTML markup, but we would also like to promote an interoperability with hRecipe. While we are happy to bring our voice to the hRecipe microformat process, we do not want to do anything harmful by improperly extending hRecipe and thought to ask this community for advice on how to proceed. Some options we have considered: - Create a POSH format completely distinct from hRecipe (this would not be compatible with hRecipe) - Add our own extensions to hRecipe (this would not respect the formal methodology of microformats) - Augment hRecipe with our POSH format property extensions and recommend
...
I am hoping that an approach similar to the latter is appropriate. I apologize for my inexperience in working with the microformat community and thank you all in advance for your feedback. Best, Dave Corboy ZipList, Inc. From tdrake at yahoo-inc.com Thu Mar 11 14:23:18 2010 From: tdrake at yahoo-inc.com (Ted Drake) Date: Thu Mar 11 14:23:47 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extendinghRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dave The hrecipe microformat took a long time to develop and the implementation owes a lot to Thomas Loertsch (http://www.essen-und-trinken.de/) and the engineers at the Food Network http://foodnetwork.com (Jay Hung and Mark Wunsch). I'd suggest contacting them with your ideas. They may have gone through some of your concepts and can explain why they did or did not go in that direction. Ted DRAKE -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Dave Corboy Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:37 PM To: microformats-discuss@microformats.org Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extendinghRecipe I'm the development lead for a small company that has an interest in the establishment and adoption of a recipe-based microformat. Our research has led us to hRecipe and found it to be great, however we have need for a number of additional properties (which may -- or may not -- have broader applicability). One option we have is simply to publish (for our web customers) our recommendation for semantic HTML markup, but we would also like to promote an interoperability with hRecipe. While we are happy to bring our voice to the hRecipe microformat process, we do not want to do anything harmful by improperly extending hRecipe and thought to ask this community for advice on how to proceed. Some options we have considered: - Create a POSH format completely distinct from hRecipe (this would not be compatible with hRecipe) - Add our own extensions to hRecipe (this would not respect the formal methodology of microformats) - Augment hRecipe with our POSH format property extensions and recommend
...
I am hoping that an approach similar to the latter is appropriate. I apologize for my inexperience in working with the microformat community and thank you all in advance for your feedback. Best, Dave Corboy ZipList, Inc. _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From thomas at stray.net Fri Mar 12 01:43:42 2010 From: thomas at stray.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?thomas_l=F6rtsch?=) Date: Fri Mar 12 01:43:50 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extendinghRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C3736CA-74F7-4D23-80B0-28CA233E2C08@stray.net> Hi Ted, I sent him here ;-) I have no expertise in extending microformats nor in POSH specifically, so I can't answer this question anyway. Cheers Thomas Am 11.03.2010 um 23:23 schrieb Ted Drake: > Hi Dave > > The hrecipe microformat took a long time to develop and the > implementation owes a lot to Thomas Loertsch > (http://www.essen-und-trinken.de/) and the engineers at the Food Network > http://foodnetwork.com (Jay Hung and Mark Wunsch). I'd suggest > contacting them with your ideas. They may have gone through some of your > concepts and can explain why they did or did not go in that direction. > > Ted DRAKE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org > [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Dave > Corboy > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:37 PM > To: microformats-discuss@microformats.org > Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for > incorporating/extendinghRecipe > > I'm the development lead for a small company that has an interest in > the establishment and adoption of a recipe-based microformat. Our > research has led us to hRecipe and found it to be great, however we > have need for a number of additional properties (which may -- or may > not -- have broader applicability). > > One option we have is simply to publish (for our web customers) our > recommendation for semantic HTML markup, but we would also like to > promote an interoperability with hRecipe. > > While we are happy to bring our voice to the hRecipe microformat > process, we do not want to do anything harmful by improperly extending > hRecipe and thought to ask this community for advice on how to > proceed. > > Some options we have considered: > - Create a POSH format completely distinct from hRecipe (this would > not be compatible with hRecipe) > - Add our own extensions to hRecipe (this would not respect the formal > methodology of microformats) > - Augment hRecipe with our POSH format property extensions and > recommend
...
> > I am hoping that an approach similar to the latter is appropriate. I > apologize for my inexperience in working with the microformat > community and thank you all in advance for your feedback. > > Best, > Dave Corboy > ZipList, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > [ o ] [ o ] - ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From singpolyma at singpolyma.net Fri Mar 12 11:28:25 2010 From: singpolyma at singpolyma.net (Stephen Paul Weber) Date: Fri Mar 12 11:28:50 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6991f8e01003121128o46c8b2fesff61dc6d182eb21d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 16:37, Dave Corboy wrote: > Some options we have considered: > - Create a POSH format completely distinct from hRecipe (this would > not be compatible with hRecipe) Whatever you do, don't do this. Invention is the mother of all that is evil. If there exists a vocabulary for your data, use it. Otherwise, you can add new terms... you should basically never invent something completely new and incompatible. -- Stephen Paul Weber, @singpolyma Please see for how I prefer to be contacted. This message was sent from the GMail webmail interface. It's probably not signed. This is a problem. From dave.corboy at ziplist.com Wed Mar 17 12:37:21 2010 From: dave.corboy at ziplist.com (Dave Corboy) Date: Wed Mar 17 12:37:25 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:28, Stephen Paul Weber wrote: > If there exists a vocabulary for your data, use it. Otherwise, you > can add new terms... you should basically never invent something > completely new and incompatible. Excellent. I very much appreciate the willingness of this community to provide guidance. This note suggests that it is appropriate to simply add properties to an existing microformat if they do not exist already. I could find very little information on extending microformats so I have been reluctant to do this without better guidance. Given this response I will proceed forward with adding our own extensions to hRecipe and continue to monitor this board in case there are additional comments. Best, Dave Corboy From thomas at stray.net Wed Mar 17 13:50:26 2010 From: thomas at stray.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?thomas_l=F6rtsch?=) Date: Wed Mar 17 13:50:38 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dave, can you document your additions on the wiki, maybe on the recipe-brainstorming page? Should be interesting to follow your process. B.t.w.: POSH turned out to not be the right way to go? Cheers, Thomas Am 17.03.2010 um 21:37 schrieb Dave Corboy: > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:28, Stephen Paul Weber singpolyma.net > wrote: >> If there exists a vocabulary for your data, use it. Otherwise, you >> can add new terms... you should basically never invent something >> completely new and incompatible. > > Excellent. I very much appreciate the willingness of this community to > provide guidance. This note suggests that it is appropriate to simply > add properties to an existing microformat if they do not exist > already. I could find very little information on extending > microformats so I have been reluctant to do this without better > guidance. > > Given this response I will proceed forward with adding our own > extensions to hRecipe and continue to monitor this board in case there > are additional comments. > > Best, > Dave Corboy > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Wed Mar 17 14:21:29 2010 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Wed Mar 17 14:21:34 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <531E8DD3-CED5-4EBA-9E01-6E4DA5533349@ben-ward.co.uk> On 17 Mar 2010, at 14:50, thomas l?rtsch wrote: > can you document your additions on the wiki, maybe on the recipe-brainstorming page? Should be interesting to follow your process. Seconded. recipe-brainstorming is absolutely the correct place for this. Thanks! > B.t.w.: POSH turned out to not be the right way to go? I think that this form of ?extension??where you use hRecipe as far as it will take you and mark up additional common elements with your own classnames *is* POSH. Documenting these new classnames and use cases for future recipe iterations is the best thing to do. The additional point I would make to Dave is to please try and document this work openly, as you go along (on the aforementioned -brainstorm wiki). That way you'll be benefit from Microformats process in your own work, and where desirable hRecipe additions do emerge, they'll can be drafted in tandem with your work and hopefully ease future compatibility between our work. Thanks, and good luck, Ben Am 17.03.2010 um 21:37 schrieb Dave Corboy: > >> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:28, Stephen Paul Weber > singpolyma.net > wrote: >>> If there exists a vocabulary for your data, use it. Otherwise, you >>> can add new terms... you should basically never invent something >>> completely new and incompatible. >> >> Excellent. I very much appreciate the willingness of this community to >> provide guidance. This note suggests that it is appropriate to simply >> add properties to an existing microformat if they do not exist >> already. I could find very little information on extending >> microformats so I have been reluctant to do this without better >> guidance. >> >> Given this response I will proceed forward with adding our own >> extensions to hRecipe and continue to monitor this board in case there >> are additional comments. >> >> Best, >> Dave Corboy >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From elli at sustainlane.com Wed Mar 17 16:42:14 2010 From: elli at sustainlane.com (Elli Albek) Date: Wed Mar 17 16:42:18 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, this post ended up in my gmail spam folder. No idea why, so just heads up to check the spam folders once in a while. E 2010/3/17 thomas l?rtsch > > Hi Dave, > > can you document your additions on the wiki, maybe on the recipe-brainstorming page? Should be interesting to follow your process. > > B.t.w.: POSH turned out to not be the right way to go? > > Cheers, > Thomas > > > > Am 17.03.2010 um 21:37 schrieb Dave Corboy: > > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:28, Stephen Paul Weber > singpolyma.net > wrote: > >> If there exists a vocabulary for your data, use it. Otherwise, you > >> can add new terms... you should basically never invent something > >> completely new and incompatible. > > > > Excellent. I very much appreciate the willingness of this community to > > provide guidance. This note suggests that it is appropriate to simply > > add properties to an existing microformat if they do not exist > > already. I could find very little information on extending > > microformats so I have been reluctant to do this without better > > guidance. > > > > Given this response I will proceed forward with adding our own > > extensions to hRecipe and continue to monitor this board in case there > > are additional comments. > > > > Best, > > Dave Corboy > > _______________________________________________ > > microformats-discuss mailing list > > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From dave.corboy at ziplist.com Wed Mar 17 21:17:55 2010 From: dave.corboy at ziplist.com (Dave Corboy) Date: Wed Mar 17 21:24:21 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Help with proper method for incorporating/extending hRecipe Message-ID: 2010/3/17 thomas l?rtsch > can you document your additions on the wiki, maybe on the recipe-brainstorming page? Should be interesting to follow your process. Wed Mar 17 14:21 Ben Ward lists at ben-ward.co.uk > I think that this form of ?extension??where you use hRecipe as far as it will take you and mark up additional common elements with > your own classnames *is* POSH. > Documenting these new classnames and use cases for future recipe iterations is the best thing to do. The additional point I would > make to Dave is to please try and document this work openly, as you go along (on the aforementioned -brainstorm wiki). Thank you all for your replies (and my apologies for not being able to thread my responses.) Our intent is absolutely to work with the community. Where the formats diverge (mostly by extension), we are certainly looking for feedback. Is it appropriate to post a draft specification to the brainstorm wiki and seek comment there? Eventually, we will host a public page outlining our extensions which will refer to microformats.org as the authoritative source for hRecipe. Thanks for all the help, Dave Corboy VP, Development ZipList, Inc. From sedison-albright at mcic.org Thu Mar 18 06:31:32 2010 From: sedison-albright at mcic.org (Sean Edison-Albright) Date: Thu Mar 18 06:31:40 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number In-Reply-To: <201003172223.o2HMNbei007202@microformats.org> References: <201003172223.o2HMNbei007202@microformats.org> Message-ID: <4BA23944.7000107@mcic.org> On 3/17/2010 5:23 PM, microformats-discuss-request@microformats.org wrote: > Here's how I'd do it: > >
>

My Org

>

> General Enquiries: > 01234 567 890 >

>

> > > Help Desk > > 01234 567 899 >

>
> > -- Toby A Inkster > This makes sense -- if I'm following correctly, the Help Desk is essentially an individual entity within the organization, rather than part of the contact info for the org. Thanks for your help, all! From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Thu Mar 18 07:02:47 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Thu Mar 18 07:02:53 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Org HCard with special phone number In-Reply-To: <4BA23944.7000107@mcic.org> References: <201003172223.o2HMNbei007202@microformats.org> <4BA23944.7000107@mcic.org> Message-ID: <1268924567.29519.36.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 09:31 -0500, Sean Edison-Albright wrote: > This makes sense -- if I'm following correctly, the Help Desk is > essentially an individual entity within the organization, rather than > part of the contact info for the org. Thanks for your help, all! Yes - and the 'agent' property relates the two hCards. Of interest may be the definition of the AGENT property in vCard: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt -- Toby A Inkster From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:29:25 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:29:29 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Medical domain microformats Message-ID: <7e437be91003220729h3dea4453k92ba9ce6d605545a@mail.gmail.com> Have anyone heard anything about medical microformat standards? In particular anything in anatomy or radiology fields? Thanks! -Andriy Drozdyuk From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:27:13 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:32:42 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] xFold name origin Message-ID: <7e437be91003220727p5168791cq7f995a99591819ce@mail.gmail.com> Where did the xFolk name come from, and why not "bookmarks"? Is there a discussion somewhere? Thank you, -Andriy Drozdyuk From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:28:07 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:34:08 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only Message-ID: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Is it possible to use HTML 4 strict only with microformats? Without introducing extra xhtml tags or attributes. I see no discussion of this anywhere on the wiki. Thanks! -Andriy Drozdyuk From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:26:51 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:34:56 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Why "vevent" and not Event? Message-ID: <7e437be91003220726u5014baddr285fdce534e26d05@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I'm new :-) Can somebody explain to me the names "vcalendar" and "vevent" were chosen, as opposed to just "calendar" and "event"? Along with some other confusing short names for other properties. Is there some reason for this? I can see at least one reason for not using these non-obvious names: alienating designers, who will have hard time with it. But maybe I am missing some insight, please let me know! Thanks! -Andriy Drozdyuk From brian.suda at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:50:24 2010 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:50:30 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] xFold name origin In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220727p5168791cq7f995a99591819ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220727p5168791cq7f995a99591819ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e770781003220750y63797498kdbd3afece55a1640@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > Where did the xFolk name come from, and why not "bookmarks"? > Is there a discussion somewhere? --- unfortunately xfolk predates the microformats.org website, so there isn't much information documented about it. It was modeling folksonomies, and that is probably where the name came from. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From brian.suda at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:51:37 2010 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:51:41 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > Hello, > Is it possible to use HTML 4 strict only with microformats? Without > introducing extra xhtml tags or attributes. --- microformats make use of the semantics existing elements and a few additional attributes, such as class and rel. It should be possible to mark-up what you nee using only HTML 4. Do you have an example in mind or an issue that we could work through. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From brian.suda at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:54:37 2010 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Mon Mar 22 06:54:41 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Why "vevent" and not Event? In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220726u5014baddr285fdce534e26d05@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220726u5014baddr285fdce534e26d05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e770781003220754m6092123arfdd8a486b91cad02@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > Can somebody explain to me the names "vcalendar" and "vevent" were > chosen, as opposed to just "calendar" and "event"? > Along with some other confusing short names for other properties. > > Is there some reason for this? --- it mainly comes from the original formats that they are connected to. The vCalendar standard uses vcalendar, vevent, vcard and other values. These values are also unique and avoid confusion with possible meanings and uses. The wiki does have some additional information about the topic http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-faq#Why_are_the_root_class_names_vcalendar_and_vevent -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From fberriman at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 07:02:10 2010 From: fberriman at gmail.com (Frances Berriman) Date: Mon Mar 22 07:02:34 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Medical domain microformats In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220729h3dea4453k92ba9ce6d605545a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220729h3dea4453k92ba9ce6d605545a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 22 March 2010 14:29, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > Have anyone heard anything about medical microformat standards? > In particular anything in anatomy or radiology fields? > No, not either that I've seen. The closest is the species work. Are either of those fields regularly published on the web in somewhat standardised ways? From harald at effenberg.de Mon Mar 22 07:06:08 2010 From: harald at effenberg.de (Harald Effenberg) Date: Mon Mar 22 07:06:17 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Why "vevent" and not Event? In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220726u5014baddr285fdce534e26d05@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220726u5014baddr285fdce534e26d05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andriy Drozdyuk" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:26 PM Subject: [uf-discuss] Why "vevent" and not Event? > Can somebody explain to me the names "vcalendar" and "vevent" were > chosen, as opposed to just "calendar" and "event"? "Calendar" is a calendar. "vCalendar" is a standard for exchanging calendar-data. The "v" came probably because it was developed along with the vCard-standard for exchanging address-data. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar#vCalendar_1.0 Best regards Harald -- Imam bay?ld? http://www.effenberg.de/imam-bayildi.htm From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 07:27:50 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 07:27:54 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> Well, my main concern is wether the attributes of certain elements are HTML sctrict or not. For example "rel" attribute - can it be attached to any dom element or only script and such. There are other examples of attributes that microformats uses - which I am not sure are part of script specification. -Andriy Drozdyuk On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Brian Suda wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: >> Hello, >> Is it possible to use HTML 4 strict only with microformats? Without >> introducing extra xhtml tags or attributes. > > --- microformats make use of the semantics existing elements and a few > additional attributes, such as class and rel. It should be possible to > mark-up what you nee using only HTML 4. Do you have an example in mind > or an issue that we could work through. > > -brian > > > -- > brian suda > http://suda.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 07:29:32 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 07:29:36 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Medical domain microformats In-Reply-To: References: <7e437be91003220729h3dea4453k92ba9ce6d605545a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e437be91003220829x207c684t8279471a1bb1f0d3@mail.gmail.com> Well, there has been extensive "effort" to standardize the DICOM standard with xml schemas and such. It has so far failed miserably. -Andriy Drozdyuk On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Frances Berriman wrote: > On 22 March 2010 14:29, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: >> Have anyone heard anything about medical microformat standards? >> In particular anything in anatomy or radiology fields? >> > > No, not either that I've seen. ?The closest is the species work. ?Are > either of those fields regularly published on the web in somewhat > standardised ways? > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From ajaswa at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 07:38:55 2010 From: ajaswa at gmail.com (Andrew Jaswa) Date: Mon Mar 22 07:39:01 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> > There are other examples of attributes that microformats uses - which > I am not sure are part of script specification. Like what? class? id? If I remember correctly microformats where meant to be portable across all versions* and using non-standard attributes wouldn't make sense. Do you have any examples of attributes that might be in question? * 4.0+ atleast ============= Andrew Jaswa From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 09:57:25 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 09:57:29 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e437be91003221057s247fce30jf35c741d7594ea93@mail.gmail.com> My bad, it seems like everything is html4 compliant. In particular I was comparing these two lists, and they seem to match: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html http://microformats.org/wiki/semantic-html Thanks, -Andriy Drozdyuk On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Jaswa wrote: >> There are other examples of attributes that microformats uses - which >> I am not sure are part of script specification. > > Like what? class? id? If I remember correctly microformats where meant > to be portable across all versions* and using non-standard attributes > wouldn't make sense. > > Do you have any examples of attributes that might be in question? > > * 4.0+ atleast > > > > ============= > Andrew Jaswa > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Mon Mar 22 11:25:59 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Mon Mar 22 11:26:07 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Mon, 2010-03-22 at 09:38 -0600, Andrew Jaswa wrote: > Like what? class? id? If I remember correctly microformats where meant > to be portable across all versions* and using non-standard attributes > wouldn't make sense. > > * 4.0+ atleast The rel- and rev-based microformats (e.g. rel-tag, votelinks, etc) can be used validly as far back as HTML 2.0. But HTML 2.0 didn't include a class attribute, so the bigger microformats can't be used. I think the HTML 3.0 drafts included the class attribute, but HTML 3.0 faltered and never really happened. HTML 3.2 was published as a W3C Recommendation, but didn't include class. (The DTD explicitly mentions it as something that was omitted.) -- Toby A Inkster From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 12:38:52 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 12:38:56 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation Message-ID: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> I see the microformats in the upcoming drafts section all named: hAtom, hAudio, hListing, hMedia, hNews, hProduct, hRecipe, hResume, hReview While in the actual documentation: http://microformats.org/wiki/process one can find this philosophy: "DO NOT start with even labeling your effort "hXYZ". This is a very common mistake." What is the purpose of naming things with "h" prefixes and using all kinds of abbreviations? (e.g. "adr" instead of "address"). It's already on the web (hence html) - shouldn't it be clear that it's (h)tml? I was just wandering if anyone else ever thought about it, or am I just being silly, or missing something? Thanks, -Andriy Drozdyuk From fberriman at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:24:21 2010 From: fberriman at gmail.com (Frances Berriman) Date: Mon Mar 22 13:24:47 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 22 March 2010 20:38, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > I see the microformats in the upcoming drafts section all named: > hAtom, hAudio, hListing, hMedia, hNews, hProduct, hRecipe, hResume, hReview > > While in the actual documentation: > http://microformats.org/wiki/process > > one can find this philosophy: > "DO NOT start with even labeling your effort "hXYZ". This is a very > common mistake." > > What is the purpose of naming things with "h" prefixes and using all > kinds of abbreviations? (e.g. "adr" instead of "address"). > It's already on the web (hence html) - shouldn't it be clear that it's (h)tml? > > I was just wandering if anyone else ever thought about it, or am I > just being silly, or missing something? > Thanks, Good question. It's more for the benefit of parsers. It's a sort of simple name-spacing technique. Imagine trying to look for recipe microformats in HTML - the class name "recipe" may be used for all sorts of correct reasons, but a microformat parser is specifically interested in the instance where it's going to retrieve the right kind of data. Looking for "hRecipe" is much easier. Of course, you can infer whether the data is useful from it's child elements, but it's a quicker solution in many cases (and isn't the universal solution). I think the comment you quoted is a slightly different topic - It's just advice that step 1. of defining a new microformat is not naming it :) From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:35:14 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 13:35:18 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation In-Reply-To: References: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e437be91003221435t1c96261ud5a7041cd8e050a7@mail.gmail.com> I thought so, but what about: - Rel tags - they could be used for something else - these is no way to infer if the rel-tag is beign used in "semantic ways" or not. - Other formats that don't have namespaces, e.g. geo - "Design for humans first, machines second" I mean, wouldn't one always go for either "all-must-use-namespaces" (aka xml schemas!) or let's keep it as simple as possible? Sorry - I am just trying to get a jist of where the ideas are coming from in these standards, not trying to undermine them... -Andriy Drozdyuk On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Frances Berriman wrote: > On 22 March 2010 20:38, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: >> I see the microformats in the upcoming drafts section all named: >> hAtom, hAudio, hListing, hMedia, hNews, hProduct, hRecipe, hResume, hReview >> >> While in the actual documentation: >> http://microformats.org/wiki/process >> >> one can find this philosophy: >> "DO NOT start with even labeling your effort "hXYZ". This is a very >> common mistake." >> >> What is the purpose of naming things with "h" prefixes and using all >> kinds of abbreviations? (e.g. "adr" instead of "address"). >> It's already on the web (hence html) - shouldn't it be clear that it's (h)tml? >> >> I was just wandering if anyone else ever thought about it, or am I >> just being silly, or missing something? >> Thanks, > > Good question. > > It's more for the benefit of parsers. ?It's a sort of simple > name-spacing technique. ?Imagine trying to look for recipe > microformats in HTML - the class name "recipe" may be used for all > sorts of correct reasons, but a microformat parser is specifically > interested in the instance where it's going to retrieve the right kind > of data. Looking for "hRecipe" is much easier. ?Of course, you can > infer whether the data is useful from it's child elements, but it's a > quicker solution in many cases (and isn't the universal solution). > > I think the comment you quoted is a slightly different topic - It's > just advice that step 1. of defining a new microformat is not naming > it :) > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From fberriman at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:50:22 2010 From: fberriman at gmail.com (Frances Berriman) Date: Mon Mar 22 13:50:46 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003221435t1c96261ud5a7041cd8e050a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003221435t1c96261ud5a7041cd8e050a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 22 March 2010 21:35, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > I thought so, but what about: > - Rel tags - they ?could be used for something else - these is no way > to infer if the rel-tag is beign used in "semantic ways" or not. But in this case - rel is part of the HTML spec and should be used correctly. Can't assume any HTML is ever actually used semantically, beyond recommendation. > - Other formats that don't have namespaces, e.g. geo Generally these are the ones that pre-date the "microformats" movement. > - "Design for humans first, machines second" I'd say the name-space aids humans too. It's much easier for a developer to spot the usage in amongst their code if the names stand out amongst their other classes. > Sorry - I am just trying to get a jist of where the ideas are coming > from in these standards, not trying to\ undermine them... Of course - it's good to ask questions :) From drozzy at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 14:09:34 2010 From: drozzy at gmail.com (Andriy Drozdyuk) Date: Mon Mar 22 14:09:38 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation In-Reply-To: References: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003221435t1c96261ud5a7041cd8e050a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e437be91003221509q809c488ldbfff7e55f7df36a@mail.gmail.com> "Generally these are the ones that pre-date the "microformats" movement." Should that not be documented as part of the philosophy or design? It seems like random naming right now... -Andriy Drozdyuk On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Frances Berriman wrote: > On 22 March 2010 21:35, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: >> I thought so, but what about: >> - Rel tags - they ?could be used for something else - these is no way >> to infer if the rel-tag is beign used in "semantic ways" or not. > But in this case - rel is part of the HTML spec and should be used > correctly. ?Can't assume any HTML is ever actually used semantically, > beyond recommendation. > >> - Other formats that don't have namespaces, e.g. geo > Generally these are the ones that pre-date the "microformats" movement. > >> - "Design for humans first, machines second" > I'd say the name-space aids humans too. ?It's much easier for a > developer to spot the usage in amongst their code if the names stand > out amongst their other classes. > >> Sorry - I am just trying to get a jist of where the ideas are coming >> from in these standards, not trying to\ undermine them... > > > Of course - it's good to ask questions :) > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From martin at weborganics.co.uk Mon Mar 22 14:11:11 2010 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Mon Mar 22 14:11:14 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation In-Reply-To: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003221338s12be17d1y29cd313500dd65ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA7EAFF.5070409@weborganics.co.uk> Hello Andriy Welcome .... On 22/03/2010 20:38, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > I see the microformats in the upcoming drafts section all named: > hAtom, hAudio, hListing, hMedia, hNews, hProduct, hRecipe, hResume, hReview > > While in the actual documentation: > http://microformats.org/wiki/process > > one can find this philosophy: > "DO NOT start with even labeling your effort "hXYZ". This is a very > common mistake." > Most of the drafts you mention above did not *start* out being named hAtom, hAudio .. etc. hAtom was simply about a blog posts format, hAudio was audio info and hMedia was media info... what I am trying to say is that it was only in the final stages of the process they were given their "h" prefix names, they didn't start out that way. > What is the purpose of naming things with "h" prefixes and using all > kinds of abbreviations? (e.g. "adr" instead of "address"). > For most new microformats, those that were created using "the process", get their naming conventions from hCard and hCalendar the "h" bit has just been re-used from them. Personally in the case of hAudio and hMedia I wouldn't mind if they lost their h-bit at the beginning I believe the would be more modular and easier to mix with other microformats... but that's just me ;) The adr property comes from hCard which gets its naming conventions from the vCard rfc http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt, but as a rule its not really common to abbreviate or shorten words you will find that microformats use short "meaningful" class names mostly. > It's already on the web (hence html) - shouldn't it be clear that it's (h)tml? > The "h" bit of microformat class names in *most* cases is short for "HTML version of", http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q._What_is_the_.27h.27_for.2C_in_front_of_Calendar_and_Card.3F "Think this is this thing, represented in html" -- Frances Berriman http://www.mail-archive.com/microformats-discuss@microformats.org/msg11051.html but there are some variations of its meaning, the best interpretation I have seen is ... "hAtom, hCard, hCalendar, hReview etc are all named after the character Horatio "H" Caine from the popular police procedural television series "CSI: Miami"." -- Toby Inkster http://www.mail-archive.com/microformats-discuss@microformats.org/msg11054.html Best wishes. -- Martin McEvoy From ajaswa at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 14:12:13 2010 From: ajaswa at gmail.com (Andrew Jaswa) Date: Mon Mar 22 14:12:19 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> <1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: <1e76a9d61003221512l7e08b82fl7f57ca7ab04e7c03@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Toby Inkster wrote: > The rel- and rev-based microformats (e.g. rel-tag, votelinks, etc) can > be used validly as far back as HTML 2.0. But HTML 2.0 didn't include a > class attribute, so the bigger microformats can't be used. > > I think the HTML 3.0 drafts included the class attribute, but HTML 3.0 > faltered and never really happened. HTML 3.2 was published as a W3C > Recommendation, but didn't include class. (The DTD explicitly mentions > it as something that was omitted.) Ha. I would hop no-one uses HTML 2.0 any more! Thanks for pointing that out. ============= Andrew Jaswa From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Mon Mar 22 16:11:19 2010 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Mon Mar 22 16:11:30 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <1e76a9d61003221512l7e08b82fl7f57ca7ab04e7c03@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> <1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <1e76a9d61003221512l7e08b82fl7f57ca7ab04e7c03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1269303079.8745.52.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Mon, 2010-03-22 at 16:12 -0600, Andrew Jaswa wrote: > Ha. I would hop no-one uses HTML 2.0 any more! I use HTML 2.0 for the error pages on my personal website, more as an "easter egg" than for any other reason. e.g. http://tobyinkster.co.uk/this/should/give/you/a/404 -- Toby A Inkster From harald at effenberg.de Tue Mar 23 01:51:41 2010 From: harald at effenberg.de (Harald Effenberg) Date: Tue Mar 23 01:51:46 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only In-Reply-To: <1269303079.8745.52.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com><21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com><7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com><1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com><1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk><1e76a9d61003221512l7e08b82fl7f57ca7ab04e7c03@mail.gmail.com> <1269303079.8745.52.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Inkster" To: "Microformats Discuss" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] HTML 4 strict only > I use HTML 2.0 for the error pages on my personal website, more as an > "easter egg" than for any other reason. > > e.g. http://tobyinkster.co.uk/this/should/give/you/a/404 Is References: <7e437be91003220728y66e7549dga0e4fb3aeab359b0@mail.gmail.com> <21e770781003220751q65a93121q228e3effe616dd13@mail.gmail.com> <7e437be91003220827k6f84f414h5d090ce3d0a584a@mail.gmail.com> <1e76a9d61003220838o38fd8e63id51e5c72b0cb339@mail.gmail.com> <1269285959.8745.46.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> <1e76a9d61003221512l7e08b82fl7f57ca7ab04e7c03@mail.gmail.com> <1269303079.8745.52.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Message-ID: <1269339873.8745.58.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> On Tue, 2010-03-23 at 10:51 +0100, Harald Effenberg wrote: > Is FooBar

That's valid in HTML 3 and 4 too. It's an SGML shortcut that browsers never actually implemented, but in the particular place I've used it their error-correction seems to compensate for it. How about this... It is, I think the shortest possible valid HTML 4.0 document. But this is getting seriously off-topic... -- Toby A Inkster <mailto:mail@tobyinkster.co.uk> <http://tobyinkster.co.uk>