From codedread at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 10:19:39 2011
From: codedread at gmail.com (Jeff)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:20:10 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard, i18n and screen readers
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=NT5e40BJSL6BGj5cDD2o3hVr=_dKxPa6pPNpt@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to hCard. ?Let's say I have the following markup:

<div>
?<h3>T?l?phone Mobile</h3>
?<div>1-408-555-1234</div>
</div>

What is the proper way to mark this up such that it is identified as a
mobile phone number, but it is also i18n friendly (i.e. it does not
require me to put "CELL" in the text contents of the page).

This is what I think is one option:

<div class="tel">
?<h3><abbr class="type" title="cell">T?l?phone Mobile</abbr></h3>
?<div class="value">1-408-555-1234</div>
</div>

However, it introduces the semantically incorrect 'abbr' element into
my markup. ?It would also introduce an undesirable tooltip when
hovering over Mobile Phone.

Similar questions go for ADR types, gender (when hCard is presumably
updated for vCard4), etc.

Someone just now pointed me to
http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Using_value-title_to_publish_machine-data
which indicates that the following is another option:

<div class="tel">
?<h3 class="type"><span class="value-title"
title="cell"></span>T?l?phone Mobile</h3>
?<div class="value">1-408-555-1234</div>
</div>

The extra span seems ... dirty, but I guess it can work.  My only
question is whether screen readers interpret the title of the empty
span in any way.

Thanks,
Jeff

From lists at ben-ward.co.uk  Tue Jan 11 16:32:17 2011
From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (lists@ben-ward.co.uk)
Date: Tue Jan 11 16:32:21 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard, i18n and screen readers
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=NT5e40BJSL6BGj5cDD2o3hVr=_dKxPa6pPNpt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=NT5e40BJSL6BGj5cDD2o3hVr=_dKxPa6pPNpt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1294792337.16098.1414820133@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:19 -0800, "Jeff" <codedread@gmail.com> wrote:

> Someone just now pointed me to
> http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Using_value-title_to_publish_machine-data
> which indicates that the following is another option:
> 
> <div class="tel">
> ?<h3 class="type"><span class="value-title"
> title="cell"></span>T?l?phone Mobile</h3>
> ?<div class="value">1-408-555-1234</div>
> </div>
> 
> The extra span seems ... dirty, but I guess it can work.  My only
> question is whether screen readers interpret the title of the empty
> span in any way.

This is the correct way; you don't need to abuse <abbr> for translation.
value-title was worked out partially for this very issue.

When we wrote up the pattern we ran thorough testing against screen
readers; yes, it's a somewhat ugly markup cludge, but it's all we've got
in HTML for the time being.

Regards,

Ben

From codedread at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 17:06:33 2011
From: codedread at gmail.com (Jeff)
Date: Tue Jan 11 17:06:59 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard, i18n and screen readers
In-Reply-To: <1294792337.16098.1414820133@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <AANLkTi=NT5e40BJSL6BGj5cDD2o3hVr=_dKxPa6pPNpt@mail.gmail.com>
	<1294792337.16098.1414820133@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=be7njx_STBx6QbiQBwPWQho=Z4Fu6+Fer2Qig@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ben,

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 4:32 PM,  <lists@ben-ward.co.uk> wrote:
>
> This is the correct way; you don't need to abuse <abbr> for translation.
> value-title was worked out partially for this very issue.
>
> When we wrote up the pattern we ran thorough testing against screen
> readers; yes, it's a somewhat ugly markup cludge, but it's all we've got
> in HTML for the time being.

Doesn't HTML5 microdata use the <meta> element for this purpose?

>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>

Thanks,
Jeff
From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk  Sun Jan 16 10:40:48 2011
From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster)
Date: Sun Jan 16 10:40:33 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard, i18n and screen readers
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=be7njx_STBx6QbiQBwPWQho=Z4Fu6+Fer2Qig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=NT5e40BJSL6BGj5cDD2o3hVr=_dKxPa6pPNpt@mail.gmail.com>
	<1294792337.16098.1414820133@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<AANLkTi=be7njx_STBx6QbiQBwPWQho=Z4Fu6+Fer2Qig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110116184048.3889db6a@miranda.g5n.co.uk>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:06:33 -0800
Jeff <codedread@gmail.com> wrote:

> Doesn't HTML5 microdata use the <meta> element for this purpose?

That doesn't really work outside XHTML.

The problem is that the HTML5 parsing algorithm hoists <meta> elements
into the document head. In other words:

  <!doctype html>
  <head><title>Example</title></head>
  <body>
    <meta name="foo" content="bar">
    <script>
      var heads = document.getElementsByTagName('head');
      var metas = heads[0].getElementsByTagName('meta');
      window.alert(metas[0].name + metas[0].content);
    </script>
  </body>

Will alert "foobar". The browser assumes that you really meant to put
the <meta> element in the head. This behaviour is inherited from legacy
browsers who made this assumption because <meta> has never been allowed
in the <body>.

RDFa's content attribute is a nice solution for hiding a machine
readable value, and somewhat less of a hack:

e.g.

  <p about="#i" rel="foaf:based_near">
    I live in <span property="geo:lat_long"
    content="50.875627;0.017855">Lewes (50?52?N, 0?1?E)</span>
  </p>

-- 
Toby A Inkster
<mailto:mail@tobyinkster.co.uk>
<http://tobyinkster.co.uk>


From alex at nlpfu.com  Sat Jan 29 19:07:15 2011
From: alex at nlpfu.com (Alexandre Patry)
Date: Sat Jan 29 19:07:20 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] The wiki has been spammed
Message-ID: <4D44D5E3.6040204@nlpfu.com>

Hi,

I just wanted to inform you that your wiki (at least 
http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page) has been spammed.

Best regards,

Alexandre
From tantek at cs.stanford.edu  Sat Jan 29 19:38:30 2011
From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=)
Date: Sat Jan 29 19:39:15 2011
Subject: [uf-discuss] The wiki has been spammed
In-Reply-To: <4D44D5E3.6040204@nlpfu.com>
References: <4D44D5E3.6040204@nlpfu.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim6xXd400oDmW-F9VG-dLx+udNSH2fpNG7YQU+8@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 19:07, Alexandre Patry <alex@nlpfu.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just wanted to inform you that your wiki (at least
> http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page) has been spammed.

Thanks for the heads-up Alexandre - should be all cleaned up now.

Tantek