From mingli.yuan at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 22:25:08 2011 From: mingli.yuan at gmail.com (Mingli Yuan) Date: Mon Mar 7 22:25:13 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] How to involve a new format design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, folks, I have a requirement of a new format for knowledge exchange. But I am new to this area, and I want to get some advices. My specific requirement is for a format to exchange Wikipedia knowledge, but of cause this format could be used in a boarder situations. For each article from Wikipedia, I want fill below metadata in its talk page: * title (different title in different language variant) * permalink * links for different language variant * categories * lead sentence * abstract * main photo (img link, width, hight) Some metadata can be retrieved via API calls from WIkipedia, but it need many API calls. Some metadata should be generated by human for good quality. I think I should separate common requirements from Wikipedia specific, and I can understand this. My questions are: * Is this requirement common enough to make a specification? * How dose people involve in a new specification? * How about other choices: such as RDFa, or HTML5 Micordata? Thanks for your help. Regards, Mingli From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Tue Mar 8 02:20:32 2011 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Tue Mar 8 02:21:19 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] How to involve a new format design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 22:25, Mingli Yuan wrote: > Hi, folks, Hi Mingli, > I have a requirement of a new format for knowledge exchange. > But I am new to this area, and I want to get some advices. > > My specific requirement is for a format to exchange Wikipedia knowledge, > but of cause this format could be used in a boarder situations. In general in microformats we try to make the most use of existing microformats first before attempting to create a new format. In this case, many of the examples you mention appear to be covered by existing microformats: > For each article from Wikipedia, I want fill below metadata in its talk page: > > * title (different title in different language variant) > * permalink > * links for different language variant > * categories > * lead sentence > * abstract > * main photo (img link, width, hight) Take a look at hAtom which I believe covers almost all of this. http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom For different language variants, that's covered by plain HTML using rel="alternate" and hreflang="..." the language of the variant. > Some metadata can be retrieved via API calls from WIkipedia, but it > need many API calls. > Some metadata should be generated by human for good quality. > > I think I should separate common requirements from Wikipedia specific, > and I can understand this. > > My questions are: > > * Is this requirement common enough to make a specification? > * How dose people involve in a new specification? "Common enough" is necessary but not sufficient. For some details on what it takes to at least create a microformats draft specification, see the process: http://microformats.org/wiki/process > * How about other choices: such as RDFa, or HTML5 Micordata? No matter what syntax you use, you'll have to pick and use a vocabulary. microformats focuses on creating/discovering vocabularies to describe common web publishing behaviors. Many developers/designers find the microformats syntax (of using class attributes) easier and simpler to publish than other alternatives. > > Thanks for your help. > > Regards, > Mingli Regards Mingli, Also I highly recommend that you join the IRC channel at: irc://irc.freenode.net/microformats And feel free to ask questions there too - as you'll likely receive a much more precision answer as a results. Thanks! Tantek > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- http://tantek.com/ - I made an HTML5 tutorial! http://tantek.com/html5 From tom at tommorris.org Tue Mar 8 07:32:29 2011 From: tom at tommorris.org (Tom Morris) Date: Tue Mar 8 07:32:53 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] How to involve a new format design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 06:25, Mingli Yuan wrote: > Hi, folks, > > I have a requirement of a new format for knowledge exchange. > But I am new to this area, and I want to get some advices. > > My specific requirement is for a format to exchange Wikipedia knowledge, > but of cause this format could be used in a boarder situations. > > For each article from Wikipedia, I want fill below metadata in its talk page: > > * title (different title in different language variant) > * permalink > * links for different language variant > * categories > * lead sentence > * abstract > * main photo (img link, width, hight) > > Some metadata can be retrieved via API calls from WIkipedia, but it > need many API calls. > Some metadata should be generated by human for good quality. > The combination of MediaWiki API and dbpedia should be able to do what you need. Dbpedia provides all that: see for instance http://dbpedia.org/resource/London It's all RDFish, but it is provided in a variety of syntaxes. If you are building something on top of Wikipedia data, Dbpedia is a pretty good starting point. This kind of thing isn't appropriate for Microformats. There have been discussions about adding microformats to Wikipedia, and there are bits and pieces, but it's a huge change that is fairly low down on the list of things MediaWiki developers are working on. If you want to add structured data to other wikis than Wikipedia, there are a variety of solutions for that. Yours, -- Tom Morris Please don't print this e-mail out unless you want a hard copy of it. If you do, go ahead. I won't stop you. From mingli.yuan at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 08:36:22 2011 From: mingli.yuan at gmail.com (Mingli Yuan) Date: Tue Mar 8 08:36:28 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] How to involve a new format design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Tantek and Morris, I found hatom is helpful, also I found metadata in dbpedia is comprehensive. Thanks for your information and advice. My use cases are for Chinese WIkipedia, I think the coverage of dbpedia is limited on this language. For example, the category tree are almost in English, if I am not wrong. Comparing with dbpedia, a fine-tuned and limited metatdata set by human will be also helpful for many use cases. I will try to recognize the vocabulary for my problem-set and seek the exist standards first. Thanks again. Regards, Mingli On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Tom Morris wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 06:25, Mingli Yuan wrote: > > Hi, folks, > > > > I have a requirement of a new format for knowledge exchange. > > But I am new to this area, and I want to get some advices. > > > > My specific requirement is for a format to exchange Wikipedia knowledge, > > but of cause this format could be used in a boarder situations. > > > > For each article from Wikipedia, I want fill below metadata in its talk page: > > > > * title (different title in different language variant) > > * permalink > > * links for different language variant > > * categories > > * lead sentence > > * abstract > > * main photo (img link, width, hight) > > > > Some metadata can be retrieved via API calls from WIkipedia, but it > > need many API calls. > > Some metadata should be generated by human for good quality. > > > > The combination of MediaWiki API and dbpedia should be able to do what you need. > > Dbpedia provides all that: see for instance > http://dbpedia.org/resource/London > > It's all RDFish, but it is provided in a variety of syntaxes. If you > are building something on top of Wikipedia data, Dbpedia is a pretty > good starting point. > > This kind of thing isn't appropriate for Microformats. There have been > discussions about adding microformats to Wikipedia, and there are bits > and pieces, but it's a huge change that is fairly low down on the list > of things MediaWiki developers are working on. If you want to add > structured data to other wikis than Wikipedia, there are a variety of > solutions for that. > > Yours, > > -- > Tom Morris > > > Please don't print this e-mail out unless you want a hard copy of it. > If you do, go ahead. I won't stop you. > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com Mon Mar 28 15:21:25 2011 From: hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com (John M. Dlugosz) Date: Mon Mar 28 15:21:39 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] General vcard help Message-ID: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> My work-in-progress can be viewed at . My immediate question is how do I decorate the FAX number?
PHONE
+1 800-818-5336
FAX
+1 214-295-9491
... There is no element enclosing (just) the label FAX and the value, and XHTML prohibits a dummy div here. So where do I put the "type=fax" information? From brian.suda at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 02:54:33 2011 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Tue Mar 29 02:54:38 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] General vcard help In-Reply-To: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> References: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:21 PM, John M. Dlugosz wrote: >
>
PHONE
>
+1 800-818-5336
> >
FAX
>
+1 214-295-9491
> There is no element enclosing (just) the label FAX and the value, and XHTML > prohibits a dummy div here. ?So where do I put the "type=fax" information? --- You will need to change your HTML to accomidate both a TYPE and VALUE. You can see an example on the wiki here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#type_subproperty_values -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:04:25 2011 From: hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com (John M. Dlugosz) Date: Tue Mar 29 07:04:42 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] General vcard help In-Reply-To: References: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <10910-1301411072-70704@sneakemail.com> On 3/29/2011 5:54 AM, Brian Suda brian.suda-at-gmail.com |Microformats dicsussion/Allow to home| wrote: > --- You will need to change your HTML to accomidate both a TYPE and VALUE. That's not nice. From martin at weborganics.co.uk Tue Mar 29 09:08:16 2011 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Tue Mar 29 09:06:26 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] General vcard help In-Reply-To: <10910-1301411072-70704@sneakemail.com> References: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> <10910-1301411072-70704@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <4D921200.7070500@weborganics.co.uk> On 29/03/11 16:04, John M. Dlugosz wrote: > On 3/29/2011 5:54 AM, Brian Suda brian.suda-at-gmail.com |Microformats > dicsussion/Allow to home| wrote: >> --- You will need to change your HTML to accomidate both a TYPE and >> VALUE. > > That's not nice. > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss you could also take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Using_value-title_to_publish_machine-data If you are worried about making your data look "nice" eg:
PHONE
+1 800-818-5336
FAX
+1 214-295-9491
of course the above is a lot more verbose than your original example ... but the data you are publishing will look "nice" to a machine too ;) Best wishes ans welcome John Martin McEvoy. From hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com Tue Mar 29 09:26:23 2011 From: hevv9sktcu at snkmail.com (John M. Dlugosz) Date: Tue Mar 29 09:26:34 2011 Subject: [uf-discuss] General vcard help In-Reply-To: <4D921200.7070500@weborganics.co.uk> References: <12973-1301354489-522474@sneakemail.com> <10910-1301411072-70704@sneakemail.com> <4D921200.7070500@weborganics.co.uk> Message-ID: <15748-1301419587-656819@sneakemail.com> On 3/29/2011 12:08 PM, Martin McEvoy martin-at-weborganics.co.uk |Microformats dicsussion/Allow to home| wrote: > you could also take a look at > http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Using_value-title_to_publish_machine-data > > If you are worried about making your data look "nice" eg: > >
>
PHONE
>
> > > +1 800-818-5336 >
> >
FAX
>
> > +1 214-295-9491 >
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> > of course the above is a lot more verbose than your original example ... > but the data you are publishing will look "nice" to a machine too ;) > > Best wishes ans welcome John > > Martin McEvoy. > Ah, I think value-type is exactly what I was looking for: be able to put the keyword in an attribute instead of the element's text content.