Josh, My question would be, will there ever be much of an advantage to the user to utilize a scraping tool over .ics files?  All the calendar clients inherintly support iCal, not to mention the fact that you could use Brian's x2v tool to output an iCal file.  I don't think it should be up to the user to utilize the scraping tool, it should be up to developers to deliver the content to them in tools they already have.  I recently had a discussion with Brian Deer of <a href="http://evdb.com">evdb.com</a> and we discussed this very thing, why force the user to switch/add tools?  It just doesn't make sense to me. --Josh <div>On 7/14/05, Joshua Porter <<a href="mailto:porter@bokardo.com">porter@bokardo.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> To add to Bud's post: I wrote up a short piece for my blog ( http:// <a href="http://bokardo.com/archives/intro-to-microformats/">bokardo.com/archives/intro-to-microformats/</a> ) right after the <a href="http://microformats.org"> microformats.org</a> site went up. It was my initial impression, and contains some wrong impressions...but ones that could be used, if combined with other impressions from other designers, to come up with a framework for explaining what they are more clearly. It doesn't matter if microformats are *right*, it matters if they are *supported*. Support comes in part from developers who code for them, but without *demand* from users support will die on the vine. Support is not just having microformats on a site. It includes the ability of users to do something useful with them. A "showcase" application is a great way to grow demand. <a href="http://Upcoming.org">Upcoming.org </a> is not a showcase application for microformats, because they already have .ics and feed files available. There is no incentive for users to use a scraping tool over simply grabbing the .ics file. As I say in my post, a great example of a showcase application is <a href="http://housingmaps.com">http://housingmaps.com</a> After seeing housingmaps, you don't need to know anything else...you just want to use the Google Maps API. josh On Jul 14, 2005, at 11:27 AM, Bud Gibson wrote: > On Jul 14, 2005, at 8:48, Andy Hume wrote: > > >> I'm more concerned with getting your 'average designer in the >> street' to start authoring contact details within an hcard as a >> matter of course. Teach them that the cost is negligible, the >> benefits are good today, and may be great tomorrow. Without an >> uptake of microformat authors they'll be no reason to implement >> applications or parsing machines. Correct? >> >> > > Chicken and egg.  My discussions with authors often suggest that > they are looking for the compelling value proposition to make the > extra coding worth it.  That value proposition will come through > applications and services that consume the microformat. > > I humbly submit hCalendar and hCard as examples to support this claim. > > Adoption of microformats depends on a clear value proposition to > the author and ultimate end-user.  This in turn depends partly on > the availability of applications and services. > > Bud > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > <a href="mailto:microformats-discuss@microformats.org">microformats-discuss@microformats.org</a> > <a href="http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss"> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss</a> > _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:microformats-discuss@microformats.org"> microformats-discuss@microformats.org</a> <a href="http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss">http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss</a> </blockquote></div>