Speaking from my own viewpoint and that of the BibDesk users I've talked to (generally academics, not librarians - it is a bibtex editor), I think that a complete resource description framework would be welcome, but probably overkill. All we really need is enough metadata to import into our local collections and then reproduce a citation in the MLA/Chicago/insert journal style here/ format. I view hCite as one method to automate that process of publishing such automatically importable data. In BibDesk, we have a feature that lets people view a web page then select the text and choose mappings to bibtex fields (ie, select an author name and click on the author field) - people are doing this markup by hand, and they love that feature! There would be many happy people if this kind of simple mapping was done by markup already. You lost me with your discussion of comporting validity - are you referring to just expressing author/location information for the cited work or something more elaborate than what is currently done with citations? I added a bunch of markup examples to the wiki from databases I use. Their markup seems pretty lame. I wanted to add an example from <a href="http://www.citeulike.org/">http://www.citeulike.org/</a> but the site was unreachable just now - that site imports from the other sites, I believe using screen-scraping plugins. -mike <div>On 2/13/06, Ryan Cannon <<a href="mailto:ryan@ryancannon.com">ryan@ryancannon.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I agree that the use of hAtom + citation, or even Atom + citation (hCite?) would be a good method to syndicate citation formats. The discussion of citations has been kicking up and then dying a number of times, and I take some of the blame as one of the people who'd like to push the format along not taking enough initiative. I think the most difficult part of the hCite discussion is framing our 80/20. Most bloggers and less formal writers only define references to other web sites as a single link, without much in the was of data to be marked up by a Microformat, where as academics seem to be looking for a locator and authenticity-validator not unlike MLA or Chicago, while librarians and others have been talking about including even more data in order to form a complete (pardon the jargon pun) framework for resource description. I think the problem that hCite would be trying to solve, however, would be the current inability to create a reference (hyper- or not) to another work in a way that comports validity information to the reader *without viewing the work*. hCite would be an attempt to standardize that process and therefore allow both people and tools to better understand the information. -- Ryan Cannon Interactive Developer MSI Student, School of Information University of Michigan <a href="http://RyanCannon.com/">http://RyanCannon.com/</a> On 11 Feb 2006, at 3:00 PM, microformats-discuss- <a href="mailto:request@microformats.org"> request@microformats.org</a> wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:25:48 -0800 > From: Michael McCracken <<a href="mailto:michael.mccracken@gmail.com">michael.mccracken@gmail.com</a>> > Subject: [uf-discuss] one citation microformat use case > To: <a href="mailto:microformats-discuss@microformats.org">microformats-discuss@microformats.org</a> > Message-ID: >       <<a href="mailto:d4fa3cf70602101925s7bf082e4g809156385807e47e@mail.gmail.com"> d4fa3cf70602101925s7bf082e4g809156385807e47e@mail.gmail.com</a>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, I just found the recent conversations about a citation > microformat, and > saw that the discussion slowed down around the same time someone > asked about > what problem we're solving. I'd like to add my two cents: > > I have a particular use case in mind: I would like to have my > publications > list on my home page have enough detail to reconstruct at least a > BibTeX > entry from it, and ideally something richer. I'd also really like > to be sure > that there's an element that's a link to a hard-copy of the > referenced item > for download, if available. > > Given such a microformat, I'd add support to BibDesk to generate it > from > BibTeX (and our upcoming database format), and support to add items > from a > web page directly to a database in BibDesk. I would also like to be > able to > subscribe to a page with data in this format, so I'd know when new > publications were added. > > So, I'd like to hear opinions (since I'm new to the idea of > microformats) on > how to support subscriptions with the citation format, and whether > or not > it'd be best done by also using hAtom. > > I've been wanting to add this kind of support to BibDesk for years, > and the > number of citation metadata formats has made it difficult to decide > on a > good path to take. > > Thanks, > -mike > > -- > Michael McCracken > UCSD CSE PhD Candidate > research: <a href="http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/">http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/</a> > misc: <a href="http://michael-mccracken.net/blog/">http://michael-mccracken.net/blog/</a> </blockquote></div> -- Michael McCracken UCSD CSE PhD Candidate research: <a href="http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/"> http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/</a> misc: <a href="http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/">http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/</a>