On 3/30/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Bruce D'Arcus</b> <<a href="mailto:bdarcus.lists@gmail.com">bdarcus.lists@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On 3/30/06, Tim White <<a href="mailto:tjameswhite@yahoo.com">tjameswhite@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> I understand the desire to capture "type" metadata - I wanted to<br>> include it for the longest time. But - from a microformats point of
<br>> view - we have to keep two things in mind:<br>><br>> 1) Humans first, machines second.<br><br>At what point does this become mere dogma? It sounds like what you're<br>advocating in fact suggests "human first, who cares about machines";
<br>as if the one can't support the other in any case.</blockquote><div><br>
I can't agree with Bruce enough on this. If it's easy to include,
would enable more functionality, but is not intended for display
purposes, what is the harm? Having an arbitrary line drawn in the
sand serves no purpose and will be problematic in the future.<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> This means keeping everything visible, not trapped in metadata. If you<br>> really want to note that it's a photo then include that:
</blockquote><div><br>
You know, this refrain keeps popping up and I'm just not buying
it. hCard has a non-displaying 'tel' span (which would be similar
to the 'journal|book|photograph|etc' we're discussing here. <br>
<br>
"Vote Links" has non-displaying metadata. XOXO as well.<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> 2) "Adapted to current behaviors and usage patterns."<br>> Microformats are suppose to be modeled on what people are currently
<br>> doing (80/20) on the web. I think of it in terms of the Everyman/woman.</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
"Everyman/woman" has no idea what microformats are.</blockquote><div><br>
Not only that, I think it's completely off-base as to where your 80/20
are! If you look at the /vast/ majority of citations that are
available via HTML, they are /are not/ from Everyman/woman and frankly
never would or could be. Think of the potential of Google Scholar
or Scirus or MSN's upcoming Academic Live Search (esp. since, you know,
MS invented microformats and everything ;) if they adopted microformats
and there are actual things you could do with each citation result.<br>
<br>
The potential of that is so much greater than any benefit of keeping it
confined to book reviews in blogs and CVs (although both can and should
be acheived).<br>
<br>
In fact, I am meeting with MS about the Academic Live Search in a
couple of weeks to talk about, among other things, the possibility of
including COinS or mfs in their results.<br>
<br>
While I agree, that unneeded complexity or overanalysis of use cases is
bad and should be avoided, making this good and useful and for more
than just hobbyists is critical at this point.<br>
<br>
-Ross.<br>
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