[uf-new] Revisiting grouping problem solution proposal: hset

Manu Sporny msporny at digitalbazaar.com
Tue May 22 13:35:44 PDT 2007

Tantek Çelik wrote:
> Use of "." or any other sort of semantic separator in class names is a bad
> idea for *numerous* reasons (introducing hierarchy where we there isn't any
> currently, 

We are introducing hierarchy ONLY in the case of hset. We are only
talking about grouping - we are not talking about any other Microformat.
We are not talking about boiling the oceans - we are talking about a
tiny Microformat called hset that uses '.' as a separator for identifiers.

> using a character that is requires escaping when writing CSS
> rules etc.)

Why would we write CSS rules for hset?

> I too am convinced that we can do simple sets through aggregation. 

Please explain as I don't think I've heard this problem solution yet...

> Let's start with that and iterate.

We need something more than simple sets to support the problem stated in


> You don't need the all-inclusive format in the first version. 

We don't need to half-bake anything that isn't going to solve the real
problem, either. We've demonstrated that we have a sparse grouping problem:


> Classes with hierarchy and special
> characters (not to mention hiding data in the class attribute) are so far
> beyond simple it is ridiculous.

I'm having a hard time understanding what is so complex about:


It seems like a very simple solution - Brian, Tantek, please take some
time to explain your position. Or in the very least, include a link to
where your arguments and position have been explained before.

By saying something is a "bad idea for *numerous* reasons" without
defining all of those reasons doesn't help the discussion. I understand
that you are opposed to the idea, but I don't understand *why*. Clearly,
if this has been discussed to death before - we should be able to look
at a page that summarizes the arguments against "using a class name and
a separated list to denote object identifiers and grouping".

Here are all the grouping discussions to date:


We also have a set of grouping problem solutions with pros/cons listed:


If you have an idea of what we should be doing instead, please give a
couple of examples so that there is some movement forward.

-- manu

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