[uf-new] hAudio: audio-title/album-title vs. recording/album

[Martin McEvoy]

So we leave album-title and audio-title as it is?

Or are we going to talk about it?


Thanks

Martin

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 21:22 +0100, Martin McEvoy wrote:
> Hello Manu
> 
> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 00:03 -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> > One of the last remaining (and most pedantic) issues for hAudio is the
> > naming of the audio-title and album-title properties. This includes the
> > following issues (we could close them all if we can finally decide on
> > these two names):
> > 
> > hAudio ISSUE #2: audio-title Property
> > http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#audio-title_Property
> > 
> > hAudio ISSUE #9: album-title Property
> > http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#album-title_Property
> > 
> > hAudio ISSUE #10: Collection Names
> > http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-issues#Collection_Names
> > 
> > The primary issue that I have with audio-title and album-title is that
> > they are not orthogonal in the programming language sense:
> > 
> > http://www.lrdev.com/lr/frequently-asked-questions.html#programming-language-orthogonality
> > 
> > audio-title is the title of a singular/atomic audio expression. It is a
> > rather general term used to identify a singular work.
> > 
> > album-title is the title of an audio album. It is a specific term used
> > to identify a collection of singular works that are in an album/track
> > format.
> > 
> > To add to the complexity of the semantics behind these two terms, they
> > not only denote the title, but the type of the hAudio as well.
> > 
> > The question is: Can we make these terms more orthogonal to publishers.
> > Can we choose terms that denote both title and type. The first attempt
> > was to name them something like the following:
> > 
> > recording-title and album-title
> > 
> > The use of -title seemed a bit redundant, so it was dropped to form:
> > 
> > recording and album
> > 
> > Speaking and reading the words in context makes sense:
> > 
> > hAudio recording
> > hAudio album
> > 
> > whereas speaking and reading what we have currently doesn't really make
> > sense:
> > 
> > hAudio audio-title (specifies the recording title AND the hAudio type)
> > hAudio album-title (specifies the album title AND the hAudio type)
> > 
> > There is also only one example to back-up using the "*-title" pattern in
> > Microformats, that being ENTRY-TITLE in hAtom. There are, however, loads
> > of examples of taking the other approach, which is using nouns to denote
> > "title (type)":
> > 
> > author (Person), item (Thing), label (Identifier), locality (Place),
> > logo (Image), note (Text), photo (Image), summary (Text), region
> > (Place), reviewer (Person), sound (Sound), and title (Text) are a
> > handful of examples of nouns being used to denote title and type.
> > 
> > The best that we've been able to do has been RECORDING and ALBUM. Any
> > suggestions on addressing these issues?
> 
> In Principle I agree with you certainly *album-title* and *audio-title*
> don't seem to sit right and are causing some problems as regards naming
> and definition, we do have to resolve these issues. Also *track* to me
> is causing similar concerns.
> 
> +1 for changing album-title to just album because on its own it is both
> type and title
> 
> My concern is "recording" although the name suggests type and title, I
> dont think it is specific enough Its still a very loose term to describe
> what actually may be a recording or just the title itself. 
> 
> I know I have brought up that we re use ITEM from hReview before on the
> list but I guess I didnt explain my reasoning correctly, and I never
> really understood why It is that we cant use ITEM, because from what i
> can glean from the wiki and how people use it in other formats such as
> rss It seems to do exactly what we need.
> So please consider again.
> 
> so another attempt at simplifying hAudio using my previous example
> 
> <div class="haudio">
> 	<span class="album">Best Before 1984</span>
> 	By <span class="contributor">Crass</span>
> [...]
>     <div class="item">
>         <span class="track">Nagasaki Nightmare</span> 
>         <abbr class="duration" title="P268T">4:46</abbr>
>     </div>
> 
>     <div class="item">
>         <span class="track">Big A, Little A </span> 
>         <abbr class="duration" title="P368T"> 6:13</abbr>
>     </div>
> [...]
> </div>
> 
> If we were to do this in hReview the markup would be..
> 
> [...]
>   <div class="item">
>     <span class="fn">Nagasaki Nightmare</span>
>     <abbr class="duration" title="P268T">4:46</abbr>
>   </div>
> [...]
> 
> The above markup does seem to make hAudio compact and clean no confusion
> about what our hAudio properties mean?
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Martin
> 
> > 
> > -- manu
> > 
> > PS: Keep in mind that RECORDING can be re-used in hVideo.
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