[uf-new] Metadata/machine-readable data patterns
Bob Jonkman
bjonkman at sobac.com
Fri Mar 14 13:25:43 PST 2008
+1 for <input type="hidden">
Has someone tested this with a screen reader?
I'm surprised that an <input> is valid without being nested inside a
<form>, but pleasantly so.
This syntax seems no more difficult to parse than <abbr
title="something"> and using a standards-compliant attribute to
identify hidden text is far better than keeping visible something that
is meant only for machines.
And it isn't _really_ hiding anything. The human-readable equivalent
text is still very visible, and has exactly the same meaning as the
value="something".
--Bob.
>>> 14 Mar 2008 20:50 Nelson Menezes <microformats-
new at microformats.org> >>>
> On 14/03/2008, Christopher St John <ckstjohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd read:
> >
> > http://tantek.com/log/2005/06.html#d03t2359
>
> That is a good read, and a good point. I concede that you really don't
> want to use hidden data unless there is a good case for it.
>
> > then spend a bit of time looking through the mailing list and chat
> > logs (google with site:microformats.org is helpful)
>
> I did, but I can't find anything referring specifically to this
> scenario. Apologies if I'm a bit thick! If you know of a specific
> talk/page I'm happy to read it...
>
> > Short version: If you gotta hide stuff (like ISO dates), then hide
> > them very, very close to the visible representation on the page of
> > the thing you're hiding.
>
> Agreed. And when there are relevant (i.e. semantically meaningful)
> tags or tag attributes that should be the way to go. If, however,
> there aren't or they cause significant side-effects, I think that
> carefully-thought-through use of <input type="hidden" /> fields could
> be a good option.
>
> The ISO date seems like one of these scenarios: the usage of the
> <abbr> title attribute makes sense but has practical disadvantages
> that (in my opinion) will actually hinder its adoption. For instance,
> many designers would dislike the idea of non-human-friendly tooltips
> scarring their websites (and so might want to opt out of using the
> microformat). More importantly, there's the well-documented
> accessibility issue with screen readers.
>
> So I would suggest something like this as the simplest approach for a
> date pattern:
>
> <span class="date">March 14th<input type="hidden" value="2008-03-14"
> /></span>
>
> Is it hidden data? Yes, but so is the title attribute in an <abbr>
> tag. This is maybe slightly more "hidden", but I think it's a good
> compromise.
>
> --
> Nelson Menezes
> flying.mushroom at gmail.com
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-- -- -- --
Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cel: +1-519-635-9413
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