<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><DIV>On Apr 23, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Manu Sporny wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV>Scott Reynen wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV>On Apr 23, 2007, at 12:12 AM, Manu Sporny wrote:</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><div id="ktsampler" class="haudio"></DIV><DIV> <div id="ktsampler.bh" class="haudio"></DIV><DIV> </div></DIV><DIV></div></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>What's wrong with this:</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV><div class="audio-album"></DIV><DIV> <div class="audio-track"></DIV><DIV> </div></DIV><DIV></div></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Nothing really, if the problem of collections of tracks were isolated.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>What about podcasts? Symphonies? Speeches? We can't use 'audio-album'</DIV><DIV>and 'audio-track' for those... well - we can, but the Microformat</DIV><DIV>namespace will become incredibly bloated as we try to re-create the</DIV><DIV>concept of a collection/relationship for each uF format.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I don't know about those. The only documentation of those types of collections I see in the wiki is media-info, and that's full of many examples that have nothing to do with collections. If you want to solve the specific problem of collections, I'd encourage you to first document the specific problem of collections. Right now, it doesn't seem to me it's a problem we can solve generally, rather than in specific contexts, but I'm just speculating about abstract concepts. That's not how successful microformats develop, and I think we should follow the process here, e.g. first documentation, then analysis, then proposal.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV>It seems to me a collection pattern is solving a problem we could avoid</DIV><DIV>better by using more specific class names. In this case, tracks and</DIV><DIV>albums are two different things, so they should have two different class</DIV><DIV>names. Albums contain tracks by definition, so no need for additional</DIV><DIV>semantics here, right?</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>You are correct for the specific case of albums and tracks. However,</DIV><DIV>we're going to keep seeing this problem crop up. Video is next and it</DIV><DIV>has the exact same 'collection' problem that audio does. The same goes</DIV><DIV>for images (photo albums, collages, etc.)</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>Again, I'd encourage you to make a page in the wiki with real-world collection-examples of all of those together, if only to save yourself the trouble of explaining the scope of the problem you're trying to solve via email again and again.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>--</DIV><DIV>Scott Reynen</DIV><DIV>MakeDataMakeSense.com</DIV></SPAN></SPAN><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>