hCard resolved issues

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(resolved 2010: follow-up to i18n examples, note authoring guidance of MUST use given-name, family-name on sites in languages where fn-opt doesn't apply, and need new issue for english social nets)
 
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<entry-title>hCard resolved issues</entry-title>
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== resolved issues ==
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[[hCard]] <span id="Resolved_Issues">issues that are resolved but may have outstanding [[to-do]] items.</span>
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= hCard Resolved Issues =
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As issues are resolved, they will be moved from the [[hcard-issues|Issues list]] to this section.
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See [[hcard-issues]] for unresolved issues.
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As actions are taken according to the resolutions noted in the issues, they are moved to [[hcard-issues-closed]].
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== closed issues ==
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=== resolved 2005 ===
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<span id="Closed_Issues">Resolved issues that have no further actions to take.</span>  These will likely be moved to a separate page like [[hcard-issues-closed]].
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'''Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.'''
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=== 2007 ===
 
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* 2007-01-26 raised by [[User::JamesCraig|JamesCraig]].
 
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*# ''Proposal to use the class attribute for qname prefixed type values (and others such as dtstart values), AKA meta classes.'' <pre><nowiki>
 
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<span xml:lang="en">Home (preferred): <span class="tel type:home type:pref">+1.415.555.1212</span></span>
 
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<span xml:lang="es">Casa (preferido): <span class="tel type:home type:pref">+1.415.555.1212</span></span>
 
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</nowiki></pre>
 
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*#* REJECTED DUPLICATE ETC. Class attributes for type values [http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#ISSUE_2 was tried and rejected] and in addition, [[qnames-considered-harmful]].
 
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*#* Clarified proposal, leaving REJECTED.
 
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*2007-05-08 raised by Tantek as a result of a message from [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] on microformats-new
 
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*#''How do you distinguish a '''place''' vs. an '''organization''' hCard, both from the perspective of a publisher (author) wishing to express the particular semantic, and from the perspective of a parser (developer) wishing to discern the difference? This is different from the 2006-12-15 issue on semantic specificity because this issue is *specifically* about place vs. org, rather than conflating that with person.''
 
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*#Note: mailing list post cited in 2006-12-15 issue is quite clear; it says "''when a spider finds an hCard, it can't tell if it is a person, company, organization, or place.''".
 
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*#* DUPLICATE.  See 2006-12-15 issue.
 
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* ...
 
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<span id="Resolved_Issues">Issues that are resolved but may have outstanding [[to-do]] items.</span> As issues are resolved, they will be moved from the top of the [[hcard-issues#Issues|Issues list]] to the bottom of this section.
 
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=== 2005 ===
 
* 2005-06-21 raised by Hixie
* 2005-06-21 raised by Hixie
*# ''Issue H-1: This specification is lacking a user agent conformance section. There's basically nothing that says how hCards must be parsed, how to handle errors, and so forth. Is it defined in terms of the DOM? Is it defined in terms of a serialisation? How do you handle unexpected content or missing content?
*# ''Issue H-1: This specification is lacking a user agent conformance section. There's basically nothing that says how hCards must be parsed, how to handle errors, and so forth. Is it defined in terms of the DOM? Is it defined in terms of a serialisation? How do you handle unexpected content or missing content?
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*#*A: ACCEPTED RESOLVEDSee [[hcard-parsing]] for how hCards must be parsed.  For errors/unexpected content/missing content, please provide specific examples.
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*#*A: ACCEPTED.   
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*#** [[to-do]]: add "user agent conformance section" similar to or better than conformance criteria documented in [http://dev.w3.org/html5/mdvcard/ microdata vCard vocabulary].
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* 2005-06-30 raised by Jack L. Wolfgang II. Please feel free to move these to the FAQs if they are better suited there.
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*#** See [[hcard-parsing]] for how hCards must be parsed.   
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*# ''Handling middle names and suffixes: How does one handle middle initials/names in the hCard format and suffixes that are not honorific suffixes (e.g. Jr., Sr., II, III, etc. as opposed to Ph.D., Esq., M.D., etc.)?''
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*#** [[to-do]]: add more deatils to [[hcard-parsing]] on how to handle errors in invalid hCards, unexpected content, or missing content.
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*#*A: ACCEPTED FAQ. By [http://suda.co.uk Brian Suda] (2005-11-08 updated by [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]; 2006-11-16 updated by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]) hCard is based of the RFC2426 spec. I you want to use a middle initial it can be expanded using the abbr element. <code>&lt;abbr title="[MiddleName]" class="additional-name"&gt;M&lt;/abbr&gt;</code>. Honorific Suffixes in the RFC include Jr., Esq. and other inherited suffixes, so I would just use <code>&lt;abbr class="honorific-suffix" title="Junior"&gt;Jr.&lt;/abbr&gt;</code> etc.
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*#** [[to-do]]: clarify in [[hcard-parsing]] that is based upon the parse tree (e.g. DOM) of the source document. Provide general parsing details but defer to specific parsing rules of document source (e.g. defer to HTML5 for how to parse an HTML5 document (HTML serialization or XHTML serialization) and produce a DOM tree, which hcard-parsing then uses to extract hCards).
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*# ''Handling different types of addresses: How does one handle the TYPE (e.g. postal, work, etc.) specification for addresses as specified in RFC 2426 Section 3.2.1?''
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*#** [[to-do]]: add a section to [[hCard]] or a separate normative page (subsection page) that provides additional vCard-format-specific details for converting hCards to vCards (.vcf).
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*#*A: ACCEPTED FAQ. By [http://suda.co.uk Brian Suda] (2005-11-08 updated by [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]) If you want to add a type to certain elements, including address and telephone it may be done in the following manner:
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<pre><nowiki>
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&lt;span class="adr"&gt;
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&lt;span class="type"&gt;work&lt;/span&gt;:
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...
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&lt;/span&gt;
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</nowiki></pre>
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<pre><nowiki>
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&lt;span class="tel"&gt;
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&lt;span class="type"&gt;work&lt;/span&gt;:
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&lt;span class="value"&gt;123.456.7890&lt;/span&gt;
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&lt;/span&gt;
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</nowiki></pre>
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the TYPE needs to be a sub-element of the property (adr, tel, etc) NOTE: EMAIL does NOT have many TYPE attributes, only INTERNET and X400
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* 2005-07-22 raised by DanConnolly
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*# ''...in my cellphone/sidekick address book, I have a number of entries for companies. I wrote [http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/palmagent/asHCard.xsl asHCard.xsl] to convert the data from RDF to hCard, but I don't know what to do with entries for companies, since FN is mandatory in hCard.''
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*#*A: ACCEPTED. This should at least be an FAQ.  "How do I write an hCard for a company?"  The vCard specification is silent on this point (entries for companies).  Thus there are two options as far as the hCard standard is concerned:
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*#*# Set "fn" and "org" to the same value.  E.g. <code>&lt;span class="fn org"&gt;W3C&lt;/span&gt;</code> (recommended)
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*#*# Set "org" as usual, and set "fn" explicitly to empty. E.g. <code>&lt;span class="fn"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="org"&gt;W3C&lt;/span&gt;</code> or
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*#*#* Simply have no "fn", and on the parsing side, if there is no "fn" present, but there is an "org" property, then duplicate the "org" value as "fn"
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*#*The last two options are effectively the same and are both not explicit and easily confusable with a "missing data" condition.  Thus option 1 is preferred.  For converting applications (hCard to vCard), they ''may'' consider using proprietary extensions to make the distinction explicit in generated vCards, based on either case 1 or 2 above.  E.g. Apple's Address Book application supports the property: <code>X-ABShowAs:COMPANY</code>
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*#*We are looking for descriptions of how other vCard supporting applications treat "company" vCards differently from "person" vCards.  Please provide descriptions here:
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*#** Address Book / MacOSX.3:
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*#*** Export (e.g. drag & drop to desktop, view in text editor)
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*#**** Sets "FN" and "ORG" to the name of the company
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*#**** Sets proprietary <code>X-ABShowAs:COMPANY</code>
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*#*** Import (e.g. edit in text editor, drag & drop from desktop)
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*#**** By setting "FN" and "ORG' to the same name (e.g. Banana Computers Inc.)
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*#**** And removing any proprietary properties (e.g. X-ABShowAs)
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*#**** Address Book user interface showed new vCard as a "company" contact rather an a person
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*#** Address Book MacOSX.4:
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*#*** same results as above -RyanKing
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*#** The Danger Hiptop (aka T-Mobile Sidekick) address book:
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*#*** Export (e.g. [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Sep/0007.html email to a mailing list])
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*#**** Sets "FN" to the empty string and puts the company name in "ORG".
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*#*** Import - could not find a way to import a .vcf, by email, IM, or other means into the Sidekick.
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*#** Contacts / Outlook 2003 Windows
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*#*** Export (e.g. Highlight contact, File, Save As, vcard)
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*#**** Sets "N" and "ORG to the name of the company
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*#**** Sets "FN" to value in "File as:"
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*#** Add another vCard app here.
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*#* RESOLVED. hCard now specifically describes [[hcard#Organization_Contact_Info|organization contact info]]. Remaining [[to-do]]: add to [[hcard-faq]] accordingly.
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* 2005-07-23 raised by DanConnolly
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*# ''Are class names case sensitive or not? [[hcard]] says "If names in the source schema are case-insensitive, then use an all lowercase equivalent."''
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*#* A: ACCEPTED FAQ. Class names are case sensitive per the HTML4 specification. Hence hCard explicitly specifies the case of class name to use for source schema names that are case-insensitive.
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*# ''...but I find example data with class="Given-Name"''
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*#* A: ACCEPTED RESOLVED. That is from an older preliminary version of the hCard spec which used mixed case class namesSuch class names are no longer valid hCard. Please note which examples (URLs) are using the older class names and hopefully we can get them fixed.
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*#** A: By [http://suda.co.uk Brian Suda] I have fixed all the references in the [[hcard-brainstorming]] page to reflect the lower-case style, this is a hold-over from the original design, X2V has been updated.
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*# ''..and code that supports it [data with class="Given-Name"].''
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*#* A: ACCEPTED RESOLVED. Any code supporting the older class name(s) is for backward compatibility only, and should be phased out. Any new hCard code SHOULD NOT support such mixed case class names.
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*#** [http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html rfc2629xslt.html] uses Street-Address, Family-Name, etc.
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*#*** A: By [http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/ Julian Reschke] Fixed rfc2629.xslt (2005-10-29)
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*#** [http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/ X2V] Version 0.5.1 2005-07-08 supports Family-Name etc.
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*#*** A: By [http://suda.co.uk Brian Suda] I agree that the upper-case class names can be removed from the code, this was a hold-over and will be trimmed.
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*# ''The ul/ol stuff for multiple values of a property seems to be in the X2V code and in [[hcard-brainstorming]] but not in the [[hcard]] spec.''
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*#* A. ACCEPTED RESOLVED. This needs to be added to the spec. 2005-11-08 Update: the way multiple values has been updated to work much better and not require ul/ol.
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*# ''the [[hcard-profile]] says country-name but X2V and lots of the data I've seen says country''
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*#* A. ACCEPTED RESOLVED. RFC 2426 clearly says "country name" in both the prose and the grammar, thus "country-name" is the correct class name to use. If X2V uses just "country", it needs to be fixed to use "country-name", and any such examples as well. Please note which examples (URLs) are using the class name "country" and hopefully we can get them fixed.
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*#** A: By [http://suda.co.uk Brian Suda] I have fixed all the references in the [[hcard-brainstorming]] page to reflect the proper country-name, X2V will support this in the next iteration when i fix several bugs at once.
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* 2005-08-12 raised by [http://home.alltel.net/jackwolfgang/contact/ Jack L. Wolfgang II]. Use of mailto transport functionality for the E-Mail address field.
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*# ''As stated in the [[hcard-brainstorming]] document, mailto is abused by spammers. As a result, many organizations have moved to form-based contacts as opposed to mailtos. According to [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt RFC 2426], Section 3.3.2, "A non-standard value can also be specified." Does this refer to a non-standard e-mail address value or type value?''
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*#* A: ACCEPTED FAQ. Type value.
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* 2005-10-30 raised by [http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/ Julian Reschke].
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*# ''Several implementations'' '''(Which ones? Please provide links.)''' ''seem to assume that any class attribute that contains the substring "vcard" indeed signals the presence of vcard information. Not so: there are examples'' '''(What examples? Please provide links.)''' ''of where a token in the class attribute indeed only ''starts with'' "vcard", in which it should be ignored. Implementations using XPath (such as XSLT or Greasemonkey scripts) should be advised to do a <code>contains(concat(@class,' '),'vcard ')</code>.
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*#* REJECTED VAGUE. Which implementations?  And which examples?
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*#*''(Note: the code <code>contains(concat(@class,' '),'vcard ')</code> is broken see [[parsing-microformats#Parsing_class_values]] for a correct example --[[User:RobertBachmann|Robert Bachmann]])''
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* 2005-12-08 raised by [http://www.heatonarts.com Kenny Heaton].
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*# ''The specification gives no way to to declare a telephone extension, as in (800) 234-5678 ext. 101''
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*#* ACCEPTED FAQ. What is the best way to declare a telephone extension in a "tel" property?  (also seems like it would be a vCard FAQ).
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=== 2006 ===
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* 2006-01-21 raised by [http://inspire.server101.com/ben/resume/ Ben Boyle].
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*# ''Have run into issues trying to use definition lists with hCard, specifically around nesting requirements for tel where the DT element takes a class "type" (e.g. Telephone, Facsimile) and the DD element marks the value. It is invalid to place any other elements within a DL that wrap around the DT/DD pairs so there is no available element to assign the class "tel" to. XHTML2 proposes a DI element that will resolve this issue. I am hoping for an interim solution for those that wish to use definition lists, perhaps that "any class that would be placed on the DI parent (in XHTML2) must instead be placed on the first DT element". I realise this will cause headaches for those implementing hCard parsers. I'd also like to note this may affect other (current or future) microformats and relates to the general hassle of definition lists in current (X)HTML recommendations. For your consideration - thanks!''
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*#* REJECTED WORKAROUND AVAILABLE. Either don't use definition lists in this manner (because  the description of a definition should go completely in the DD element, and thus you should be able to put the class on that), or use separate DLs in the cases where you would otherwise have needed a DI element.
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* 2006-01-23 raised by David Janes (?).
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*# ''Issue 1: Specifying Authoritative or Canonical or Official hCard''
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*#* Use of rel="me" only specifies an alternate version, not necessarily the canonical version
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*#* Suggestion: use rel="me self".  Adopt "self" semantics from Atom which means "the", or controversially "alternate, equivalent" version
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*#** The combined use of rel="me" and rel="self" may conflict with their definitions in the [http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/11#me XFN Profile] and RFC 4287 respectively. See [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-January/008443.html the mailing list discussion on rel="me self"] for more information. From [[User:RCanine|Ryan Cannon]].
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*#* Suggestion: use rel="via". Per RFC 4287, via "signifies that the IRI in the value of the href attribute identifies a resource that is the source of the information provided in the containing element." from [[User:RCanine|Ryan Cannon]].
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*#* Other suggestions?  "authoritative", "canonical"?
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*#* Problems with this suggestion?
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*#* How does this relate to authentication/trust issues? Is this a different problem with a different scope?
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*#** (microformats-discuss list) Joe Andrieu: The concept behind an "authoritative" hCard rather than "definitive" or "canonical" one was that "authoritative" would explicitly be a ''claim'' by the author of the hCard regarding its authority in describing the subject of the hCard, i.e., use ''this'' hCard as the one true source of this individual's contact information.
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*#** To summarize: authentication/trust is a separate topic.
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*#* What exactly is the scope of the problem to solve here?
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*#** (IRC) (10:47:44) sreynen: for example, all of the examples I've seen involve a single person publishing multiple hCards of himself
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*#** (IRC) (10:48:13) sreynen: yet many people are talking about 3rd parties publishing hCards and pointing back to the subject's own hCard
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*#* rel="me" must be symmetrical, per the XFN spec. What exactly does this mean for this use?
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*#* "me" (and, depending on usage, "self") are not appropriate for content referring to third- parties. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
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''TODO:'' please add appropriate context and history of this issue from the mailing list. Sign your name to your comments.
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*#* ACCEPTED PARTIAL. MULTIPLE ISSUES AND BRAINSTORMING. The questions of authoritative, and canonical, and representative are likely different questions and must be deconstructed into separate issues. - Tantek
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*#** See [[representative-hcard]] for the resolution of the the representative hCard question.
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*#** "authoritative" hCard needs a better definition of the specific question.
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*#** "canonical" hCard needs a better definition of the specific question.
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* 2006-01-28 raised by [http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-01-28#T075222 Tantek on #microformats]
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*# ''Is hCard is really appropriate for a named phone bridge, or do we need something else for a named phone numbers that are neither people nor organizations. For example see the "Zakim" hCard on http://www.w3.org/2005/12/allgroupoverview.html''
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*#* ACCEPTED FAQ. Though hCard has been expanded to allow named locations, those are *physical* locations, and hCard is not really appropriate for named virtual locations (aka virtual addresses) such as a phone number or URL. However, given the use case of having a contact in one's address book for "Zakim" in order to "dial Zakim" as may be recommended in a working group IRC discussion, perhaps Zakim is a virtual entity like an organization. -Tantek
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*2006-02-03 raised by Brian
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=== resolved 2006 ===
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*# We can use the [[geo]] microformat in [[hatom]] to represent GeoRSS element
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'''Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.'''
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*#* ACCEPTED DOCUMENTATION.  Yes, this should be documented in [[hatom-examples]]. -Tantek
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* 2006-02-13 raised by [http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Eron_Wright Eron Wright]
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*# ''Few systems contemplate the altitude component of a coordinate, yet it exists.  Altitude becomes important when working with 3D mapping software such as Google Earth. Indeed, the geocoding service that Google Earth uses returns a three-dimensional coordinate.  I suggest that hCard provide explicit support for altitude.''
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*#* REJECTED POSTPONED. Not in vCard. There is no "altitude" component in vCard (RFC 2426), and thus (certainly for now) there won't be any in hCard. If a new version of vCard were to come out with altitude, then we would add it to hCard.  At some point we may also consider adding explicit extensions beyond vCard, but if we were to do so, we would capture them first on the [[hcard-brainstorming]] page. See also [[geo-extension-elevation]].
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* 2006-02-19 raised by Miika Mäkinen.
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*# ''Couldn't the types for tel numbers be specified in a class? Now, for a phone number one needs to add the type as "visible" text, which is not always preferred. For example, type "Work", many times more suitable label could be "Office" or similar and sometimes you might not want to display any type information at all.''
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*#* REJECTED TRIED ALREADY. Using class names for the "type" of a tel or adr [http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#ISSUE_2 was attempted], and failed in many situations. In addition, the "type" information is actual data, not just a property name, and thus deserves to be in the ''visible'' markup. Note that you can use abbreviations, e.g. <code><nowiki><abbr class="type" title="work">W:</abbr></nowiki></code> in order to present the type in a way that may better fit in with the rest of your presentation.
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* 2006-02-23 raised by [http://www.thefutureoftheweb.com/ Jesse Skinner] and [http://www.thefutureoftheweb.com/blog/2006/1/hcard#comment1 Ben Buchanan].
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*# ''Are multiple URLs allowed? The [http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Property_List Property List] suggests not, whereas email and tel have multiple type/value pairs. However, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#finding_hCard_properties parsing page] suggests multiple URLs are OK. Either way, it seems clear that a type cannot be associated with a URL. So how exactly does hCard deal with multiple URLs?''
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*#* RESOLVED FAQ: Multiple URLs are allowed. Some consuming agents (Apple's AddressBook.app among them) don't have an interface for producing multiple URLs, but they are still valid in vCard and therefore hCard. --[[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]] 17:58, 12 Jun 2006 (PDT)
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* 2006-03-07 raised by [http://tantek.com Tantek].
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*# ''Issue 1: In 99% of the cases I am finding the need to explicitly do "n" markup, the person has a three word fn which is in the form "given-name additional-name(or initial) family-name". Should we make three word fn's into another shorthand notation to make this easier for authors?''
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*#* REJECTED.  I have seen sufficient additional cases in systems that have full names but not structured names that have multi-word family names that I think such an algorithm may cause minor data corruption where part of a family-name is interpreted as an additional-name. -Tantek
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* 2006-04-06 raised by [[User:Evan|Evan]].
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*# ''What is the relationship between the CATEGORY property and [[rel-tag]]? Can you add a tag to an hCard? How can you add a tag to a particular hcard on a page without tagging the other cards on a page?''
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*#* ACCEPTED. Categories can optionally be represented as tags. The classname 'category' should always be used, but rel="tag" can  optionally be used (in addition to the category classname). In the case that a rel-tag tag is used, the tag (as defined by [[rel-tag]]) is used for the category. Examples: (1) <code><nowiki><span class="category">food</span></nowiki></code> and (2) <code><nowiki><a class="category" rel="tag" href="http://example.com/food">Food!</a></nowiki></code>. --[[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]] 15:16, 13 Jun 2006 (PDT)
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* 2006-04-10 raised by [[User:ScottReynen|Scott Reynen]].
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*# ''When someone looks at the [[hcard|hCard]] pages, one sees no collection of real-world publishing of contact data nor discussion of the properties implied by such examples, I think it's far too easy to infer that microformats come from other formats more than actual behavior. There's nothing on the [[process]] nor the hcard pages explaining this discrepancy. I would argue that there should be an explanation, probably in both places.''
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*#* ACCEPTED. Agreed.  Part of this is now documented in [[hcard-design-methodology]], but [[to-do]]: document additional specifics in the [[process]] and [[process-faq]] accordingly.
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* 2006-11-15 raised by [http://lachy.id.au/ Lachy] in [irc://freenode/whatwg #whatwg] (an IRC channel on [http://freenode.net/ freenode] about [http://whatwg.org/ The WHATWG]).
* 2006-11-15 raised by [http://lachy.id.au/ Lachy] in [irc://freenode/whatwg #whatwg] (an IRC channel on [http://freenode.net/ freenode] about [http://whatwg.org/ The WHATWG]).
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*# ''The [[hcard|hCard]] spec basically reads as a brainstorm, not a normative spec.''
*# ''The [[hcard|hCard]] spec basically reads as a brainstorm, not a normative spec.''
*#* ACCEPTED. As editor I will seek to make the hCard spec as normatively written as at least common W3C recommendations, and hopefully to the level of the HTML5 specification. -Tantek
*#* ACCEPTED. As editor I will seek to make the hCard spec as normatively written as at least common W3C recommendations, and hopefully to the level of the HTML5 specification. -Tantek
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* 2006-11-16 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
 
-
*# ''The "type" for "tel" lacks a "textphone" option (for the devices used by, e.g., people who are deaf or have speech difficulties. Example: [http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/contact Birmingham City Council (303 1119)].''
 
-
*#*A: REJECTED. This is a vCard issue, as the "type" taxonomy for "tel" is determined by vCard. We are not presently extending hCard beyond the properties and values in vCard.
 
-
*#** ''I'm not clear how you can "reject" a provably factual statement. What's the process of suggesting an update to vCard? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]''
 
-
*#***A: ACCEPTED PARTIAL RESOLVED. Unfortunately it is not clear what the process is for updating vCard. However, we can at least capture suggestions for improvement to vCard from this community which may be helpful once the process for updating vCard is understood. I've created [[vcard-suggestions]] for this purpose and added this suggestion. - Tantek 
 
-
*#**** The vCard spec is updated by RFC, for example [http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4770.txt RFC 4770]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:22, 12 Jan 2007 (PST)
 
* 2006-11-17 raised by [http://lachy.id.au/ Lachlan Hunt] (I second all of these feedback items. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 07:15, 17 Nov 2006 (PST))
* 2006-11-17 raised by [http://lachy.id.au/ Lachlan Hunt] (I second all of these feedback items. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 07:15, 17 Nov 2006 (PST))
Line 230: Line 76:
*# originally [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-November/007337.html raised  on uf-discuss] by David Janes.
*# originally [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-November/007337.html raised  on uf-discuss] by David Janes.
*#* ACCEPTED. This is a good suggested clarification. Tantek [[to-do]]: update [[hcard|hCard]] accordingly.
*#* ACCEPTED. This is a good suggested clarification. Tantek [[to-do]]: update [[hcard|hCard]] accordingly.
-
 
-
* 2006-12-15 raised by [[User:WizardIsHungry|WizardIsHungry]]
 
-
*# ''[Moved from a user talk page] Hey, why is hiding semi-useful information using CSS bad? The Geo and Address stuff wouldn't be enough to contact me, but I would like there so bookmarklets, crawlers, greasemonkey etc can manipulate it. Is there a policy on using CSS hiding of fields? Thanks :)''
 
-
*#* I guess we can't rely that anything that consumes hCards is normalizing it to a particular format instead of just taking all the xml inside the hcard classed block and sticking it somewhere. If it does just store it as a string, then generating html from it will yield the same hidden fields. Perhaps hiding fields by applying a stylesheet to the relevant hcard styles is ok, but not hiding them using in-line CSS styling. Feedback? --[[User:WizardIsHungry|Jon Williams]] 10:28, 22 Dec 2006 (PST)
 
-
*#* Furthermore, [[hcard-example1-steps]] shows using inline CSS to hide fields. What gives? I still think this is an open issue; particularly the distinction between external stylesheet hiding and inline rules though. --[[User:WizardIsHungry|Jon Williams]] 13:33, 5 Jan 2007 (PST)
 
-
*#* Should this be on [[microformats-issues]]? --[[User:WizardIsHungry|Jon Williams]] 13:37, 5 Jan 2007 (PST)
 
-
*#** REJECTED. The example you cite is the first of several steps, which refine and improve the first step's suboptimal hCard, not intended as examples for publication.
 
-
*#*** The question is: ''why is this considered suboptimal if it is ok to hide the entire card?'''
 
-
*#**** REJECTED. It is not OK to hide the entire card.
 
-
*#***** Here are a number of examples of hiding the entire card, taken from [[hcard-examples-in-wild]]: [http://www.meryl.net/] [http://www.fberriman.com/] [http://www.fberriman.com/] [http://www.last.fm/user/Crok/?scrobbling=t1]  -- Could someone link to where this was discussed and decided in the past, as it seems like this is being governed by fiat. Even if you don't care to have consensus, but could you at least justify this? This stonewalling is rather rude. --[[User:WizardIsHungry|Jon Williams]] 13:24, 9 Jan 2007 (PST)
 
-
*#****** ACCEPTED FAQ. This based on the microformats [[principle]] of visibility data is better than invisible data.  More documentation is on the microformats [[principles]] page.  The [[faq#Q._Given_that_Google_now_looks_at_hidden_content_as_potential_spam.2C_will_invisible_microformats_be_considered_spam.3F|faq also has a related question and answer]].
 
-
*#* [[hcard-brainstorming#CSS_Styles]] explicitly permits this. I'm going with what they say.
 
-
*#** REJECTED. Note [[hcard-brainstorming#CSS_Styles|that section]] explicitly says: "WARNING: This is very much recommended AGAINST". -Tantek
 
* 2006-12-15 raised ([http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-December/007730.html on 2006-12-14, on the mailing list]) by Joe Andrieu.
* 2006-12-15 raised ([http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-December/007730.html on 2006-12-14, on the mailing list]) by Joe Andrieu.
Line 253: Line 86:
*#** If so, the "implied-n-optimisation" rule will need to be modified, to exclude cases where the fn is on the same attribute as an adr-child (which should probably not happen anyway). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 13:59, 2 Jan 2008 (PST)
*#** If so, the "implied-n-optimisation" rule will need to be modified, to exclude cases where the fn is on the same attribute as an adr-child (which should probably not happen anyway). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 13:59, 2 Jan 2008 (PST)
-
=== 2007 ===
+
=== resolved 2007 ===
 +
'''Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.'''
 +
 
* 2007-01-22 raised by [[User:Christina Hope|Christina Hope]].
* 2007-01-22 raised by [[User:Christina Hope|Christina Hope]].
-
*# ''What is the easiest way to display an hCard all on one line with spacing.  Currently I am using this - but I know that there has to be an easier/ simpler way to do it. <br/>Examples: (1) <pre><nowiki><p>
+
*# ''What is the easiest way to display an hCard all on one line with spacing.  Currently I am using this - but I know that there has to be an easier/ simpler way to do it. Example:''
 +
<pre><nowiki><p>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
Line 263: Line 99:
<span class="tel"> x3408</span> & nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="tel"> x3408</span> & nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="email"><a href="mailto:chope@example.com">chope@example.com</a></span>
<span class="email"><a href="mailto:chope@example.com">chope@example.com</a></span>
-
</span></p></nowiki></pre>''
+
</span></p></nowiki></pre>
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ.
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ.
-
:: Try <pre><nowiki><p class="vcard">
+
:: Try  
 +
<pre><nowiki><p class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>
<span class="department">Information Technology</span>
<span class="department">Information Technology</span>
Line 277: Line 114:
::[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:34, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)
::[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:34, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)
 +
 +
 +
* 2007-01-26 raised by [[User:JamesCraig|JamesCraig]].
 +
*# <span id="type-l10n">RFC2426 'type' values cannot be localized/internationalized in hCard.</span> In the example below, there is no solution to mark the Spanish version with a type of 'home' since the RFC2426 values are defined in English. <strong>abbr-design-pattern</strong> would suggest using abbr, but 'Casa' is not an abbreviated form of 'home', therefore the currently recommended version (below) is not valid.
 +
 +
<pre><nowiki>
 +
<span class="tel" xml:lang="es">
 +
  <abbr class="type" title="home">Casa</abbr> (<span class="type">pref</span>erido):
 +
  <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
 +
</span>
 +
</nowiki></pre>
 +
 +
*#* REJECTED. TOO LITTLE INFORMATION.  Please provide the precise URL to the specific statement on the accessify forum discussion that asserts that using abbr is not valid.  Please also provide a precise URL to a *real world* (as opposed to an artificially constructed test case) example in the wild of an non-English hCard which attempts to specify RFC2426 type information on a "tel" property and fails to do so.
 +
*#* REOPENED and clarified (Also removed Accessify reference pulled from [[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=accessibility&oldid=12943 original raising]]).
 +
*#*# Though erroneously first raised on the accessibility page, this is not an accessibility issue. It is an HTML semantics issue for internationalization. <code>abbr[title]</code> should be an expanded form of <code>abbr</code> contents, in the same language.
 +
*#*# There are real-world non-English examples in the current Mac OS 10.5 (Leopard) developer seed. This code example illustrates the point sufficiently.
 +
*#*# Please leave the clarification as-is even if you feel you must RE-REJECT (add-on, don't revert). My original points were lost when they were taken out of context and moved here. -[[User:JamesCraig|JamesCraig]]
 +
*# To avoid [[i18n]] issues, microformats should keep its hands off content (this also affects [[hReview]]). [[abbr-design-pattern]] doesn't seem the right solution here. Someone from France suggested elsewhere to use the class value '''telwork''', etc. but again it's a dubious solution (remember that a ''tel'' can have a type of ''voice'' and ''work'' '''at the same time'''). I suggest considering:
 +
 +
<pre><nowiki>
 +
<span class="tel home pref" xml:lang="es">
 +
  Casa (preferido):
 +
  <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
 +
</span>
 +
</nowiki></pre>
 +
 +
It could be argued that somehow this solution violates the microformats [[principles|principle of visible data]]. Maybe it does, but [[i18n]] should come first because otherwise microformats violates the first rule: '''solve a specific problem''' (and the last: "enable and encourage decentralized and distributed development, content, services: explicitly encourage the original 'spirit of the Web'"). -[[User:XavierBadosa|Xavier Badosa]]
 +
*#* ACCEPTED SOLVED. The use of <code>abbr</code> and <code>title</code> attribute to provide an alternate language representation rather than an abbreviation expansion falls outside the semantics of <code>abbr</code>. The [[value-class-pattern]] has been devised as a solution to this problem, to avoid the semantic mis-use of abbr for this instance.
Line 283: Line 148:
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. My first instinct is that if a precise grammar can be defined for the human friendlier d-m-s syntax, and if that precise grammar reflects the 80% of existing real world cases (e.g. Wikipedia as cited), then it should be considered for addition to the [[geo]] property and thus hCard. This may help reduce the number of instances of needing to duplicate the d-m-s value as a decimal value for machines. -Tantek
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. My first instinct is that if a precise grammar can be defined for the human friendlier d-m-s syntax, and if that precise grammar reflects the 80% of existing real world cases (e.g. Wikipedia as cited), then it should be considered for addition to the [[geo]] property and thus hCard. This may help reduce the number of instances of needing to duplicate the d-m-s value as a decimal value for machines. -Tantek
-
* 2007-02-02 raised by [[User::DerrickPallas|Derrick Pallas]]
+
* 2007-02-02 raised by [[User:DerrickPallas|Derrick Pallas]]
*# [[adr]] says that all of it's properties are singular; however, "street-address" is listed as zero-or-more.
*# [[adr]] says that all of it's properties are singular; however, "street-address" is listed as zero-or-more.
*#* ACCEPTED. This appears to have been fixed in the [[adr]] specification.  "street-address" is no longer listed as zero-or-more.
*#* ACCEPTED. This appears to have been fixed in the [[adr]] specification.  "street-address" is no longer listed as zero-or-more.
Line 290: Line 155:
*#internationalization Note: <code>country-code</code> may be missing. Usually a postal-code prefix such as "FIN-00630 Helsinki" or "L-4750 Petange" (Luxembourg).
*#internationalization Note: <code>country-code</code> may be missing. Usually a postal-code prefix such as "FIN-00630 Helsinki" or "L-4750 Petange" (Luxembourg).
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ.  This seems like just an FYI/FAQ rather than any real issue.  Often country names can be inferred from postal-codes.  Also perhaps the country-name can be marked up as an abbr subset of the postal-code in cases like the "FIN" example given. -Tantek
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ.  This seems like just an FYI/FAQ rather than any real issue.  Often country names can be inferred from postal-codes.  Also perhaps the country-name can be marked up as an abbr subset of the postal-code in cases like the "FIN" example given. -Tantek
 +
 +
* 2007-03-19 raised by [[User:ChristinaHope|Christina Hope]]
 +
*# ''Does Microsoft Outlook 2003 allow the use of the "role" property? I have added it to all of my hCards and it is not appearing. Am I doing something wrong?''
 +
*#** URL? (if no URL to a demonstrative example is provided within a year of this issue being raised, it will be closed as REJECTED INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION.)
 +
*#** REJECTED INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION.  Perhaps a note can be added to [[vcard-implementations]] with mention of this issue, in case others come across it and can then document it more thoroughly.
* 2007-03-26 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* 2007-03-26 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
Line 296: Line 166:
* 2007-03-28 raised by [[User:JamesCraig|James Craig]]
* 2007-03-28 raised by [[User:JamesCraig|James Craig]]
-
*#[[internationalization|Internationalization]] (i18n) issue for implied optimization of FN. Many languages (for example, Japanese) often list FN as "family-name given-name" instead of the assumed "given-name family-name" in English and other Western languages. There should be a affordance to indicate the order ''or'' a note in the spec indicating that the two-word FN is a shorthand for Western languages and any languages not fitting this format should explicitly define "family-name" and "given-name" every time.
+
*#[[internationalization|Internationalization]] <span id="fn-opt-i18n">(i18n) issue for implied optimization of FN</span>. Many languages (for example, Japanese) often list FN as "family-name given-name" instead of the assumed "given-name family-name" in English and other Western languages. There should be a affordance to indicate the order ''or'' a note in the spec indicating that the two-word FN is a shorthand for Western languages and any languages not fitting this format should explicitly define "family-name" and "given-name" every time.
-
*#* ACCEPTED. Tantek [[to-do]]: add internationalization section in [[hcard|hCard]] spec, and note in the spec indicating that the two-word FN is a shorthand for Western languages and any languages not fitting this format should explicitly define "family-name" and "given-name" every time.
+
*#* ACCEPTED. Tantek [[to-do]]: add internationalization section in [[hcard|hCard]] spec, and note in the spec indicating that the two-word FN is a shorthand for Western languages and any languages not fitting this format should explicitly define "family-name" and "given-name" every time.  In particular, the fn implied n optimization should be limited to fn properties which themselves are on elements that are on a whitelist of Western languages that typically publish with "given-name family-name" order, such as "en" (add others as confirmed by i18n experts). fn elements of other languages should not imply this optimization. When the optimization is not implied, then the n property is left as is - if it were otherwise empty, it is left empty.
 +
* 2007-03-31 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
 +
*# The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System WGS84 scehma] used as a default by <code>geo</code> will not remain valid forever. Fortunately, the proposed [[geo-extension-strawman|geo extension]], originally intended for lunar/ Martian coordinates, also provides a facility for the specification of other, Earth-bound schema, which will alleviate this problem. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 13:00, 31 Mar 2007 (PDT)
 +
*#* Note also the forthcoming [http://www.euref-iag.net/ European Terrestrial Reference System 89 schema] (See also [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989 Etrs89 on Wikipedia]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 03:11, 5 Apr 2007 (PDT)
 +
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. The [[geo-extension-strawman]] should be listed in [[geo-brainstorming]] for consideration in a revision of [[geo]] and the microformats that use it ([[hCard]] and [[hCalendar]]).
* 2007-04-09 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* 2007-04-09 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
*#Why is [[geo]] still a draft, when it's included in the already-published [[hcard|hCard]] spec?  
*#Why is [[geo]] still a draft, when it's included in the already-published [[hcard|hCard]] spec?  
*#* ACCEPTED. [[geo]] has been vetted long enough by the community to be raised to the same level as hCard. Tantek [[to-do]]: send an email to microformats-new proposing this.
*#* ACCEPTED. [[geo]] has been vetted long enough by the community to be raised to the same level as hCard. Tantek [[to-do]]: send an email to microformats-new proposing this.
 +
 +
* 2007-04-19 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
 +
*#How should we handle [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_and_New_Style_dates Old Style and New Style dates] (i.e. Julian calendar vs. Gregorian), in DoB? For instance, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Pasternak Boris Pasternak], born "10 February [O.S. January 29] 1890". Should the hCard spec. specify New Style, using the [[abbr-design-pattern]] (or its successor) if necessary: <code><nowiki><abbr title="1890-02-10">29 January 1890</abbr></nowiki></code>?
 +
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ. The author of the content should specify *at least* an ISO compatible Gregorian date (i.e. using the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proleptic_Gregorian_calendar Proleptic Gregorian Calendar] as necessary), e.g. as the Boris Pasternak example does, and mark *that* date up with the <code>bday</code> property: <code><nowiki>"<abbr title="1890-02-10">10 February</abbr> [O.S. January 29] 1890"</nowiki></code>  Since the likelihood of error/drift/misunderstanding is greatly increased by two different representations of date with different numbers with one of them being less visible (e.g. in the <code>title</code> attribute), pattern like the suggested <code><nowiki><abbr title="1890-02-10">29 January 1890</abbr></nowiki></code> MUST be '''avoided''' by authors.
* 2007-04-21 raised by [http://www.mnot.net/ Mark Nottingham].
* 2007-04-21 raised by [http://www.mnot.net/ Mark Nottingham].
Line 319: Line 197:
* 2007-04-27 raised by Sjoerd Mullender
* 2007-04-27 raised by Sjoerd Mullender
-
*# There is a proposal for a geo URI scheme [http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mayrhofer-geo-uri-00.txt].  It would be nice if that scheme and the geo hCard type could somehow be combined.  It seems to me that if you want to use both and also have a human-readable version, you need three copies of the latitude/longitude: <pre><nowiki><p>Location: <a href="geo:52.356389,4.952222"><span class="geo"><abbr class="latitude" title="52.356389">52&deg;21'23.00"
+
*# There is a proposal for a geo URI scheme [http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mayrhofer-geo-uri-00.txt].  It would be nice if that scheme and the geo hCard type could somehow be combined.  It seems to me that if you want to use both and also have a human-readable version, you need three copies of the latitude/longitude: <pre><nowiki><p>Location: <a href="geo:52.356389,4.952222"><span class="geo"><abbr class="latitude" title="52.356389">52&deg;21'23.00" N</abbr> <abbr class="longitude" title="4.952222">4&deg;57'08.00" E</abbr></span></a></p></nowiki></pre>
-
N</abbr> <abbr class="longitude" title="4.952222">
+
-
4&deg;57'08.00" E</abbr></span></a></p></nowiki></pre>
+
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING.  This is a very interesting proposal, and clearly it is desirable to minimize the number of copies of the latitude/longitude.  Thus this should be added to the [[geo-brainstorming#geo_links|geo brainstorming geo links section]]. -Tantek
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING.  This is a very interesting proposal, and clearly it is desirable to minimize the number of copies of the latitude/longitude.  Thus this should be added to the [[geo-brainstorming#geo_links|geo brainstorming geo links section]]. -Tantek
Line 339: Line 215:
*# ''Issue 5: Concatenation of texts is not consistent in the examples. Example file 21 contatinates telephone fields with spaces. Example 16 concatenates multiple name sub-properties by a comma. Example 34 even concatinates multiple note fields.''
*# ''Issue 5: Concatenation of texts is not consistent in the examples. Example file 21 contatinates telephone fields with spaces. Example 16 concatenates multiple name sub-properties by a comma. Example 34 even concatinates multiple note fields.''
*#* ACCEPTED. Tantek [[to-do]]: clarify concatenation handling in [[hcard-parsing]]. [[to-do]]: correct [[hcard-examples]] accordingly.
*#* ACCEPTED. Tantek [[to-do]]: clarify concatenation handling in [[hcard-parsing]]. [[to-do]]: correct [[hcard-examples]] accordingly.
 +
 +
=== resolved 2008 ===
 +
'''Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.'''
 +
 +
* 2008-01-01 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011182.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011182.html]
 +
*# The "n" optimization rules (nickname, fn) should not apply where the fn is on part of adr or label: e.g <code><nowiki>   
 +
<span class="fn locality">New York</span></nowiki></code>; <code><nowiki><span class="fn label">Asia</span></nowiki></code>,  since, in these examples, "Asia" is not a nickname, "New" is not a given-name and "York" is not a family-name. (see also [[hcard-brainstorming#Named_locations]])
 +
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. This both makes sense from the point of view of avoiding a shorthand optimization to represent a person in a case where clearly the markup represents a place, and for allowing one possible way to use hCard for named locations.
 +
 +
* 2008-01-09 <span id="tel-type-lang">2008- moved from [[vcard-suggestions]]</span>
 +
*#We can't have a generic type name cause we have to localize in French. so, for us, hCard work phone number is: <nowiki><div class="tel"><span class="type">Travail</span> : <span class="value">0321596224</span></div></nowiki>. How will a bot recognize that type ? We cannot specify every types in every languages in the specification. That's why i think something like this would be better: <nowiki>Travail : <span class="telwork">0321596224</span></nowiki> Please, use class and id attributes ONLY for microformats specifications ! XML #cdata and #data are localized ! Thanks !
 +
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE, REJECTED PROPOSAL. The localization issue is recognized and now addressed by the [[value-class-pattern]]. The proposal  for "telwork" is unnecessary, will contribute to vocabulary expansion for every other property that has a work subtype for example, illustrates a vocabulary anti-pattern, and is thus undesirable.
 +
 +
* 2008-01-13 raised by Christopher Allen at OpenIDDevCamp (collected by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]).
 +
*# What is the best practice for publishing your TZ in your hCard? As publishing just a fixed offset will likely result in 1 hour off error half the year for more people, given that the rest of the hCard is likely to be static.
 +
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ EXAMPLES. This is an excellent question, and a good subject to address as an example in [[hcard-authoring]] as well as on a page on [[date-time-authoring]] with perhaps a Q&A pointer from [[hcard-faq]].  For now, see [[value-class-pattern]] and Jakob Nielsen's post on [http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9608.html International Usability] which mentions time zone.
 +
 +
*  2008-02-02 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
 +
*# The "<code>n</code>" optimization rules (<code>nickname</code>, <code>fn</code>) should not apply where the <code>fn</code> is also the <code>role</code> or <code>title</code>: e.g <code><nowiki>
 +
<span class="fn role">Webmaster</span></nowiki></code>; <code><nowiki><span class="fn title">Duty Manager</span></nowiki></code>,  since, in these examples, "Webmaster" is not a nickname, "Duty" is not a given-name and "Manager" is not a family-name.
 +
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. This makes sense from the point of view of avoiding a shorthand optimization to represent a specific person's nickname or given/family names in a case where clearly the markup represents a generic person. In both examples given, it may be better to define the n property as having an implied empty value, while the fn has the explicitly marked up value.
 +
 +
* 2008-02-06 raised by [[User:Guillaume Lebleu| Guillaume Lebleu]]
 +
*# It seems to me that FN has been reused beyond its original vCard scope of person names, to cover any name. This led to the fn/title debate, but it seems some implementors are confused between following the vCard semantics (FN only for person names) or the hCard ones (FN for any name). See http://cinematreasures.org/theater/365/, which uses an empty FN, resulting in their vCard not being detected by Operator, only the address.
 +
*#* REJECTED MISCONCEPTION, MARKUP ERROR. ACCEPTED FAQs. 1. The scope that vCard provides is that of "person" or "organization", combined with that with the FN meaning of "formatted name" results in the meaning of "formatted name of a person or organization" (e.g. "person name" as stated). FN by itself does not have the scope of person or organization.  The page given, http://cinematreasures.org/theater/365/, erroneously uses an empty fn, when they should be marking up the following markup: <code><nowiki><a href="/theater/365/">Hornbeck &amp; Penthouse Theatre</a></nowiki></code> with fn org url uid for property hCard semantics: <code><nowiki><a class="fn org url uid" href="/theater/365/">Hornbeck &amp; Penthouse Theatre</a></nowiki></code>. This example should be added to [[hcard-examples-in-wild]], along with this noted correction in markup.
 +
 +
* 2008-02-07[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
 +
*# The "<code>fn</code>" optimization rule should not apply where the full <code>fn</code> is also the <code>nickname</code>: e.g <code><nowiki><span class="fn nickname">Plastic Bertram</span></nowiki></code>, since a given-name+family-name pair is not usually a nickname. (But how to deal with pseudonyms such as "Maurice Micklewhite (known professionally as Michael Caine)"?)
 +
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING AND FAQ. This makes sense from the point of view of avoiding a shorthand optimization to represent a person's given/family names in a case where clearly the markup represents their nickname. The given pseudonym could perhaps be marked up as: <code><nowiki><span class="vcard"><span class="n"><span class="given-name">Maurice</span> <span class="family-name">Micklewhite</span></span> (known professionally as <span class="fn">Michael Caine</span>)</span>"?)</span></nowiki></code>, however, without additional context of where that example is used, it's not clear that that's the best markup possible for the text.
 +
 +
* 2008-02-07 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-February/011552.html microformats-discuss/2008-February/011552.html]
 +
*# Is "n" optional or mandatory? The spec says yes (with exceptions) the cheat-sheet says no. Parsers and common practice seem to indicate not.
 +
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ. The "n" property is required, but that requirement may be met by satisfying one of the n property optimizations/shorthands.  Thus parsers and common practice, by implementing those optimization/shorthands are still indicating the "n" property requirement.
 +
 +
* 2008-02-08 raised by [[User:Guillaume Lebleu| Guillaume Lebleu]]
 +
*# The required FN makes it difficult to use hCard in HTML Tables without resorting to hiding information (as in http://www.bo.ingv.it/contents/INGV-Bologna/Staff.html) or using the [[include-pattern]]. Perhaps FN should not be required if some N are present. Originally raised in [http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats/IRC/2008-02-08#T181749]
 +
*#* ACCEPTED BRAINSTORMING. Because of this and other mentions of challenges of using hCard (and other microformats) in semantic HTML Tables, as well as the observation that fewer levels of hierarchy makes microformats easier to understand, a proposal is being considered to promote subproperties of a singular property to being properties themselves, e.g. the <code>n</code> subproperties (<code>given-name</code>, </code>family-name</code>, etc.), and in the case of non-singular properties with subproperties (e.g. <code>adr</code>), allowing the use of such subproperties (e.g. <code>street-address</code>, <code>locality</code>, <code>region</code>, etc.) with a single default/implied <code>adr</code> property container instance for the hCard.
 +
 +
 +
* 2008-06-01 raised by [[User:Kornel|Kornel]]
 +
*#  I need clarification how should "more semantic equivalents" be interpreted inside values (when they don't have relevant class name, but are inside another parsed element)
 +
*#* <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;email&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:href&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code> &ndash; is it "href", "nodetext" or an error? What if there are multiple links inside?
 +
*#** Parsed as "nodetext" [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;&lt;abbr title=&quot;title&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code> &ndash; is it "title" or "nodetext"?
 +
*#** Parsed as "nodetext" [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;&lt;img alt=&quot;alt&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code> &ndash; is it "alt", "nodetext" or both?
 +
*#** Per [[hcard-parsing]], since the "fn" property is a text/string property, in this example it should be parsed as "nodetext" [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC).
 +
*#** A matter of debate recently. Some parsers as "nodetext", others as "altnodetext". [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#*** What parsers produce "altnodetext"? Please add them to [[hcard-implementations]] and per [[hcard-parsing]] note that those parsers are buggy since the fn property should be parsed as "nodetext" in this example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;&lt;abbr title=&quot;title&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;value&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code> &ndash;&nbsp;"title", "nodetext" or both?
 +
*#** Parsed as "nodetext" [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;url&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;src&quot; alt=&quot;alt&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code> &ndash; "src", "alt", "nodetext" or "altnodetext"?
 +
*#** Per [[hcard-parsing]] in this example it should be parsed as "nodetext" [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC).
 +
*#** A matter of debate recently. Some parsers as "nodetext", others as "altnodetext". [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#*** What parsers produce "altnodetext"? Please add them to [[hcard-implementations]] and per [[hcard-parsing]] note that those parsers are buggy it should be parsed as "nodetext" in this example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* <code>&lt;div class=&quot;category&quot;&gt;&lt;a rel=&quot;tag bookmark&quot; href=&quot;href&quot;&gt;nodetext&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</code> – is it a tag? What if there are multiple links inside?
 +
*#** Not sure how other parsers treat this, but Cognition will create two categories based on this. One because of the [rel-tag], based on the final component of the URL; and the second category because of class=category, based on the node text. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#** As Toby indicates, that example would likely generate two "category" values for the hCard, "href" (or the last segment of the href, if "href" was not intended as a literal), and "nodetext". I say "likely" because if those two happened to be the same, only one <code>category</code> value would be generated.
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Lots of questions here that are answered by [[hcard-parsing]] but could also be listed in [[hcard-parsing-faq]] for hopefully easier discovery. In addition, each example presented would make a good test case.
 +
*# Does <code>agent</code> property have to be an hCard?
 +
*#* Is <code>&lt;span class=&quot;agent&quot;&gt;Joe Sixpack&lt;/span&gt;</code> allowed?
 +
*#** Yes. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* Is <code>&lt;span class=&quot;agent&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;vcard&quot;&gt;&hellip;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</code> ok?
 +
*#** [http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/ Cognition] doesn't specifically support this format - they'll be parsed as two separate hCards. The "outer" hCard will have an "agent" property containing the unparsed node text for the inner hCard, as if you'd used a plain string for the agent as per the previous example. If you want to provide an hCard for the agent, and have it parsed as such, Cognition requires that you use: <code>&lt;div class=&quot;agent vcard&quot;&gt;&hellip;&lt;/div&gt;</code>. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#** As Toby says, it is "ok" in that it is valid, but the agent relationship is not established by that example. Toby's change to the example to use <code>class="agent vcard"</code> fixes it to have the intended effect. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* What about <code>&lt;a class=&quot;agent&quot; href=&quot;card.vcf&quot;&gt;&hellip;&lt;/a&gt;</code>?
 +
*#** I don't think many hCard parsers also parse vCard. If they support vCard it's probably as an output format rather than input. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#** No. The example given will be parsed as "&hellip;" for the <code>agent</code>. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*# Is value of <code>&lt;abbr&gt;</code> without <code>title</code> empty or should it be interpreted like <code>&lt;span&gt;</code>?
 +
*#* I think consensus is that the node text should be used. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* More than consensus, per the [[hcard-parsing#all_properties|hCard parsing spec]]: "<code>&lt;abbr title&gt;</code>: use the value of the 'title' attribute. If there is no 'title' attribute then use the contents of the element." [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Lots of questions here that are answered by [[hcard-parsing]] but could also be listed in [[hcard-parsing-faq]] for hopefully easier discovery. In addition, each example presented would make a good test case.
 +
*# Does <code>&lt;acronym&gt;</code> work like <code>&lt;abbr&gt;</code>?
 +
*#* Not as per spec, but some parsers do treat it like <code>&lt;abbr&gt;</code>. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#** Which parsers? Please list them and note their extra support of <code>&lt;acronym&gt;</code> on the [[hcard-implementations]] page.
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ and BRAINSTORMING.''' <code>&lt;acronym&gt;</code> is not currently handled in any special way per [[hcard-parsing]].  If you (or anyone) thinks that <code>&lt;acronym&gt;</code> should be handled like <code>&lt;abbr&gt;</code>, please add it as a proposal to [[hcard-brainstorming]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*# Is this allowed: <code><nowiki>&lt;div class=&quot;photo&quot;&gt;http://example.com/photo.jpg&lt;/div&gt;</nowiki></code>?
 +
*#* It is allowed and will parse the URL as the photo property per step 3 of [[hcard-parsing#parsing_hCard_properties_and_values|hCard parsing properties and values]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* Yes, though it ''may'' cause problems for some naive parsers, and is probably less useful for humans viewing the page. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#** Which "naive" parsers? Please list them on [[hcard-implementations]] and note what problems they supposedly have with this example.
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Lots of questions here that are answered by [[hcard-parsing]] but could also be listed in [[hcard-parsing-faq]] for hopefully easier discovery. In addition, each example presented would make a good test case.
 +
*# Is it allowed to use <code><nowiki>http://</nowiki></code> URLs in <code>email</code>? or <code><nowiki>mailto:</nowiki></code> in <code>url</code>?
 +
*#* Non-SMTP e-mail addresses can be used - the presence of a e-mail "type" of "x400" confirms this - so e-mail addresses which don't start with "mailto:" and do not contain an @-sign are theoretically possible. But given the prevalence of SMTP for mail delivery on the modern Internet, I don't see why this would be useful. For "url" it is often useful to encode non-HTTP URIs, such as FTP addresses or URIs for use with various instant messaging protocols, but given the existence of the "email" property, I don't see that it makes sense to encode "mailto" URIs. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* Yes both are allowed but there is insufficient detail in the example(s) given to understand what utility they would have. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Lots of questions here that are answered by [[hcard-parsing]] but could also be listed in [[hcard-parsing-faq]] for hopefully easier discovery. In addition, each example presented would make a good test case.
 +
*# Is it allowed/required to use <code>mailto:</code> when e-mail is in non-<code>&lt;a&gt;</code>, e.g. <code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;email&quot;&gt;mailto:joe@example.com&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code>
 +
*#* Yes, but for copy-and-pasteability I'd recommend leaving out the "mailto:" prefix. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ and BRAINSTORMING.''' Yes it is allowed per step 3 of [[hcard-parsing#parsing_hCard_properties_and_values|hCard parsing properties and values]]. However the "mailto:" prefix is currently only removed when specifying the <code>email</code> property on <code>a</code> or <code>area</code> elements per [[hcard-parsing#email_property|hCard parsing - email property]]. Thus this should  both be clarified in [[hcard-authoring]], that is, Toby's suggestion to leave otu the "mailto:" prefix in user visible text of the email property, and be clarified in [[hcard-parsing]], that is, that a "mailto:" prefix should be removed from the <code>email</code> property regardless of what HTML element is used for the <code>email</code> property.
 +
*# If value of a property is empty (<code><nowiki>&lt;span class=&quot;email&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</nowiki></code>) should it be interpreted as unknown value? ignored completely like it didn't exist? an error?
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Yes it is allowed and per step 3 of [[hcard-parsing#parsing_hCard_properties_and_values|hCard parsing properties and values]] will result in an empty value.
 +
*# Can hCard contain nested hCard <i>anywhere</i>? or only outside any property or only inside <code>agent</code>?
 +
*#* Yes, though naive parsers may have problems. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Yes a nested hCard is allowed anywhere inside an hCard, however, note that any property inside the nested hCard will not be seen as part of the container hCard per [[hcard-parsing#nested_hCards|hCard parsing - nested hCards]]. A nested hCard on the <code>agent</code> property provides structured details on an agent of the containing hCard, and a nested hCard on the <code>org</code> property provides structured details on an org of the containing hCard.
 +
*# Can <code>organi'''s'''ation-name</code> (note spelling) be interpreted by parsers?
 +
*#* It should not. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' No. See [[en-us-faq#why_not_create_multiple_aliases_for_properties_in_other_spellings_and_languages|en-US FAQ: why not create aliases for properties in other spellings and languages.]].
 +
*# Is <code>type</code> class ignored in values anywhere? It is ignored in <code>&lt;div class=&quot;tel&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;type&quot;&gt;Work&lt;/span&gt; 555&lt;/div&gt;</code>, but is it in <code>&lt;div class=&quot;fn&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;type&quot;&gt;Work&lt;/span&gt; Joe&lt;/div&gt;</code>?
 +
*#* It doesn't have any special meaning within "fn", so should not be ignored. That is, the person's name would be parsed as "Work Joe". [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 08:30, 1 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED FAQ.''' Indeed, any markup that is not specified to do anything should be ignored by parsers - this is a "MUST IGNORE" aspect of the forwards/backwards compatibility design of microformats. Lots of questions here that are answered by [[hcard-parsing]] but could also be listed in [[hcard-parsing-faq]] for hopefully easier discovery. In addition, each example presented would make a good test case.
 +
 +
* 2008-06-15 raised by [[User:Kornel|Kornel]]
 +
*# [[RFC2426]] allows TYPE for LABEL, however [[hcard-cheatsheet|hCard cheatsheet]] does not list any subproperties for <code>label</code>. Is this intentional? Is <code>label</code>'s <code>type</code> allowed in hCard?
 +
*#* I raised this very issue on the mailing list about a month ago, but received no responses. Given that hCard claims to be a "a 1:1 representation of vCard (RFC2426) properties and values in semantic HTML or XHTML" (direct quote from [[hcard|spec]]), I think it's reasonable to infer that these types *are* allowed, but simply undocumented so far. I'll be including support for them in the next alpha of Cognition. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 23:59, 15 Jun 2008 (PDT)
 +
*#* '''ACCEPTED.''' Indeed this is an unintentional omission from the [[hCard]] specification. In the [[hcard#Property_List|hCard list of properties]], the entry for "label" should be changed to "label (type, value)" and the section on [[hcard#adr_tel_email_types|adr tel email types]] should be renamed to "adr email label tel types" and a list item should be added as follows: "* label type: INTL, POSTAL, PARCEL, WORK, dom, home, pref".
 +
 +
* 2008-06-16 raised by [[User:Kornel|Kornel]]
 +
*# In the rfc2426 the KEY property defaults to binary. hCard profile suggests to use &lt;abbr&gt; for the key. Shouldn't it recommend data: URI with application/pgp-keys type or HTTP URL to a PGP/GPG key file? Key in &lt;abbr&gt; can't be copied/saved without dedicated hCard parser. And I'm not sure if line-breaks (removed by attribute whitespace normalisation) aren't neccessary for parsing key file.
 +
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ EXAMPLES. How to author a "key" property value should be better addressed as indicated, in both [[hcard-examples]] and [[hcard-authoring]] with perhaps a Q&A pointer from [[hcard-faq]].
 +
 +
* 2008-12-11 raised by [[User:mephtu|mephtu]]
 +
* I am concerned that hCard usage will foster widespread abuse of personal datamining by scrapers/spammers, as a standard markup of personal information formalizes the structure of such information which until now has been loosely encoded as formatting markup (e.g. HTML).
 +
** The nice thing about microformats is that you are not required to publish everything. If you are not comfortable publishing your email, address, phone or other information, then you don't have to. If you are already publishing it on the web, then by adding microformats you are disambiguating a plain string of text and a string as meaning your name. [[User:Brian|Brian]] 08:56, 12 Dec 2008 (UTC)
 +
*** That is true, but it does more tightly associate e-mail addresses with other information. Spammers could use this to tie an e-mail address to other personal/contact details and make their messages less spammy in an attempt to fool filters. For example, some filters will raise the spam score of a message if the "To" field contains just an e-mail address, and not the recipient's name - hCard provides spammers with a fairly reliable way of finding out that name. I don't think this is a ''huge'' concern, but it is a slight concern which shouldn't be entirely dismissed. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 16:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 +
*** ACCEPTED FAQ. There is already [[faq#Microformats_and_Spam|a general microformats FAQ on SPAM]] and this should be either added to that or perhaps specifically to [[hcard-faq]].
 +
 +
* 2008-12-16 raised by [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
 +
*# '''n''' is listed as a required property. Sometimes this is implicit from the '''fn''', and that's fine. However, when <code><nowiki><span class="fn">Foo</span></nowiki></code> is found, "Foo" is implicitly a nickname, so the hCard still has no '''n''' property — does such an hCard still need an explicit '''n''' added?
 +
*#* ACCEPTED FAQ. The conclusion that "the hCard still has no '''n''' property" is incorrect. The hCard has an "n" property, it is just empty. This should be noted explicitly in [[hcard-parsing]] or perhaps [[hcard-parsing-faq]].
 +
 +
=== resolved 2009 ===
 +
<div class="hentry">
 +
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-218</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Singpolyma|Singpolyma]]</span></span>
 +
<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
 +
* <strong class="entry-title">Format for key</strong>. What format should be used for key?  I suggest the following:<pre><nowiki><a class="key" type="application/pgp-keys" href="https://path.to/key">My PGP Key</a></nowiki></pre>With MIME type obviously changed based on type of key.
 +
** RESOLVED ACCEPTED FAQ EXAMPLES. This seems reasonable to me, and we should update [[hcard-examples]] and [[hcard-faq]] accordingly. Thanks for the suggestion. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 +
</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
<div class="hentry">
 +
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TomMorris|TomMorris]]</span></span>
 +
<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
 +
* <strong class="entry-title">Parsing UTF-8 'special' space characters in telephone fields</strong>. I recently designed a page that used an hCard with a <code>span</code> containing the <samp>tel</samp> value. To space the phone number appropriately, I used the U+8201 (THIN SPACE) character <code>&amp;#8201;</code>. [[operator|Operator's]] hCard parser coughed up on this and refused to read both the contents of the <samp>tel</samp> <code>span</code> but also an <code>a</code> element containing the <samp>email</samp> property that was contained in the parent <code>p</code> element. I cannot find a clear definition of what is acceptable content for the <samp>tel</samp> property. There seems to be two ways of resolving this: (1) instruct authors of microformat parsing libraries to normalise the Unicode characters U+8194 (EN SPACE), U+8195 (EM SPACE), U+8196 (THREE-PER-EM SPACE), U+8197 (FOUR-PER-EM SPACE), U+8198 (SIX-PER-EM SPACE), U+8199 (FIGURE SPACE), U+8200 (PUNCTUATION SPACE), U+8201 (THIN SPACE), U+8202 (HAIR SPACE), U+8203 (ZERO WIDTH SPACE) and other similar characters (including the HTML entities <code>&amp;ensp;</code>, <code>&amp;emsp;</code>, <code>&amp;thinsp;</code> and <code>&amp;nbsp;</code>) so that, for the purpose of parsing the microformat they are treated as a standard space (U+0020) or (2) instructing microformat authors to not use any other space character than U+0020 (and to use the [http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/text.html#spacing-props CSS <code>word-spacing</code> property] for manipulating <samp>tel</samp> properties). Which of these is best? Anyone want to survey the current implementations to see how they currently parse telephone numbers with unexpected characters in them? Part of the problem may be that there doesn't seem to be any clear specification of what a valid telephone number is, so far as I can see—which is just from reading [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt RFC 2426] §3.3, which says that it should simply be the telephone format defined in X.500 ([http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1274.txt RFC 1274]), but there is no explicit definition in X.500 except to say it is "telephoneNumberSyntax", which is defined in [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1778.txt RFC 1778] §2.16 as simply being a printable string. Perhaps I've gone off down a blind alley! (Do we need a page for character encoding/Unicode issues?)
 +
** ACCEPTED FAQ, parsing. [[microformats]] depend on the character parsing of the language they are in. In this case, let's for example see what HTML4 and HTML5 say, and advise accordingly in [[hcard-faq]] and [[hcard-parsing]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 08:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 +
</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
=== resolved 2010 ===
 +
 +
<div class="hentry">
 +
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2010-02-03</span> raised by <span class="fn">[http://foolip.org/ Philip Jägenstedt]</span></span>
 +
<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
 +
* <strong class="entry-title">Implied "n" Optimization</strong>. The [[hcard#Implied_.22n.22_Optimization|hCard spec]] and the derived [http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html#conversion-to-vcard microdata vCard spec] has some magic intended to derive N from FN when it is not given explicitly, as N is required by the vCard spec. The guessing employed will fail for at least Vietnamese names (e.g. Phương Thanh => N:Thanh;Phương;;;), Chinese names (e.g. 冯小刚 => N:;冯小刚;; and Feng Xiaogang => N:Xiaogang;Feng;;;) and Japanese/Korean names for the same reasons. The problem is both that family-name and given-name are reversed and that Chinese is written without space, so the whole name is interpreted as family name. If the only issue is that N is mandatory, simply outputting N:;;;; seems the safest. Although it's technically possible to add markup to avoid the guessing, that's not going to be an option when microdata/microformats are used in a template and the user isn't asked for both the full name and all of its components. This issue was previously raised on [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2010-February/013187.html microformats-discuss].
 +
** RESOLVED PARTIAL DUPLICATE.  This is mostly a duplicate of [[hcard-issues-resolved#fn-opt-i18n|previous issue raised by James Craig 2007-03-28]], however, the additional information is appreciated.  This documentation of the issue contains several points useful to a refined resolution. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:22, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 +
*** MUST NOT apply FN to implied N optimization when lang is Vietnamese (need lang code), Chinese ("zh", need lang code(s)), Japanese ("ja"), or Korean (need lang code).
 +
*** For hCard to vCard converters: If an hCard lacks an 'n' property (either explicit or implied), when producing the equivalent vCard, output an empty N "N:;;;;" property in order to satisfy vCard's requirement that an N property be specified.
 +
** '''Further information''' Hey Tantek, this assumes that the page has lang declared. That just isn’t common in Japan, and I guess in the other countries mentioned, given the monolingualism. I did some quick research for you, using the first 10 search results for Nakamura (a common Japanese family name) in kanji:
 +
*** http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%中村&ei=UTF-8&fr=top_ga1_sa&x=wrt
 +
**** 303,000,000 results
 +
**** http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中村 yes
 +
**** http://www.nakamura.ed.jp/ no
 +
**** http://shunsuke.com/ yes
 +
**** http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中村紀洋 yes
 +
**** http://www.mypixel.co.jp/kabuki/nakamura/ no
 +
**** http://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/index.html no
 +
**** http://www.nakamura-net21.co.jp/ no
 +
**** http://www.eriko-nakamura.com/index.html no
 +
**** http://ataru-atariya.com/ yes
 +
**** http://baseball.yahoo.co.jp/npb/player?id=12101 yes
 +
**** 5 out of 10
 +
*** http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=中村
 +
**** 28,700,000 results
 +
**** http://www.nakamura.ed.jp/ no
 +
**** http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中村 yes
 +
**** http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中村俊輔 yes
 +
**** http://nakamura-japan.net/ no
 +
**** http://shunsuke.com/ yes
 +
**** http://www.nakamura-udon.jp/ no (not even encoding!)
 +
**** http://www.city.nakamura.kochi.jp/topj.html yes
 +
**** http://www.nakamura-u.ac.jp/ yes
 +
**** http://dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/fc/sports/shunsuke/ no (!)
 +
**** http://nakamurajapan.blog17.fc2.com/ yes
 +
**** 6 out of 10
 +
*** I’d like to note these are the highest ranked pages for a very popular search term, and include universities, schools and soccer star (well in Japan ;-) Shunsuke Nakamura’s homepage. There’s even a yahoo.co.jp site without lang="ja". I guess you can imagine the long tail :/ If you need Japanese examples or further info, please let me know. Also, check the hCards for http://twitter.com/boblet/following for examples of Philip’s comment about template/social media sites. Ignoring the current invalid stuff, you can see my friend Channy’s vcard is wrong.
 +
**** Two things: (noted by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC) )
 +
**** First, all the search results demonstrate is that we need to provide more precise authoring guidance for hCards in multiple languages. E.g. if/when those sites decide to add hCard, then they {{must}} explicitly markup "given-name" and "family-name", and {{should}} add the correct <code>lang</code> attribute at least to the page at the same time.  I'll consider that part of the resolution for this issue (authoring guidance in addition to parsing details).
 +
**** Second, the example of non-English names on primarily English social media sites is a good one and potentially a bigger challenge. Rather than re-open this entire issue, let's open a new issue for the specific example of multilingual pages or primarily English pages with non-English names in languages where the fn optimization doesn't make sense.
 +
</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
== see also ==
 +
* [[hcard-issues]]
 +
* <span id="Closed_Issues"><span id="closed_issues">[[hcard-issues-closed]]</span></span>

Current revision

Contents

resolved issues

hCard issues that are resolved but may have outstanding to-do items.

As issues are resolved, they will be moved from the Issues list to this section.

As actions are taken according to the resolutions noted in the issues, they are moved to hcard-issues-closed.

resolved 2005

Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.

resolved 2006

Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.

resolved 2007

Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.

<p>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="department">Information Technology</span>& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="role">Website Coordinator</span>& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span display="none" class="region"></span>
<span class="tel"> x3408</span> & nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;
<span class="email"><a href="mailto:chope@example.com">chope@example.com</a></span>
</span></p>
Try
<p class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Christina Hope</span>
<span class="department">Information Technology</span>
<span class="role">Website Coordinator</span>
<abbr class="tel" title="+44123 456 7890 x 3408"> x3408</abbr>
<a class="email" href="mailto:chope@example.com">chope@example.com</a>
</p>
Note: apply classes to existing elements; use abbr to give the phone number in full, in international format. Also, use CSS, not non- breaking spaces, for spacing.
Andy Mabbett 08:34, 22 Jan 2007 (PST)


<span class="tel" xml:lang="es">
  <abbr class="type" title="home">Casa</abbr> (<span class="type">pref</span>erido):
  <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
</span>
<span class="tel home pref" xml:lang="es">
  Casa (preferido):
  <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
</span>

It could be argued that somehow this solution violates the microformats principle of visible data. Maybe it does, but i18n should come first because otherwise microformats violates the first rule: solve a specific problem (and the last: "enable and encourage decentralized and distributed development, content, services: explicitly encourage the original 'spirit of the Web'"). -Xavier Badosa


<h2>Pizza Shops in Burlingame, California</h2> <ul> <li>Round Table - 231 Burlingame Avenue</li> <li>Village Host - 303 Broadway</li> <li>Pizza Hut - 43423 El Camino Real</li> </ul>

As specified, there'd be a lot of repeated information here.

However, if adr allowed use of locality, region, postcode and country as ancestors of the more specific address tags, it would save a lot of bits -- and help adoption of these microformats in this kind of case (which is quite common).

resolved 2008

Note: As the resolutions are enacted and the issues are closed, it may be worth moving this year of issues to its own page.


resolved 2009

resolved issue 2009-218 raised by Singpolyma

  • Format for key. What format should be used for key? I suggest the following:
    <a class="key" type="application/pgp-keys" href="https://path.to/key">My PGP Key</a>
    With MIME type obviously changed based on type of key.
    • RESOLVED ACCEPTED FAQ EXAMPLES. This seems reasonable to me, and we should update hcard-examples and hcard-faq accordingly. Thanks for the suggestion. Tantek 02:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

resolved issue 2009-09-10 raised by TomMorris

  • Parsing UTF-8 'special' space characters in telephone fields. I recently designed a page that used an hCard with a span containing the tel value. To space the phone number appropriately, I used the U+8201 (THIN SPACE) character &#8201;. Operator's hCard parser coughed up on this and refused to read both the contents of the tel span but also an a element containing the email property that was contained in the parent p element. I cannot find a clear definition of what is acceptable content for the tel property. There seems to be two ways of resolving this: (1) instruct authors of microformat parsing libraries to normalise the Unicode characters U+8194 (EN SPACE), U+8195 (EM SPACE), U+8196 (THREE-PER-EM SPACE), U+8197 (FOUR-PER-EM SPACE), U+8198 (SIX-PER-EM SPACE), U+8199 (FIGURE SPACE), U+8200 (PUNCTUATION SPACE), U+8201 (THIN SPACE), U+8202 (HAIR SPACE), U+8203 (ZERO WIDTH SPACE) and other similar characters (including the HTML entities &ensp;, &emsp;, &thinsp; and &nbsp;) so that, for the purpose of parsing the microformat they are treated as a standard space (U+0020) or (2) instructing microformat authors to not use any other space character than U+0020 (and to use the CSS word-spacing property for manipulating tel properties). Which of these is best? Anyone want to survey the current implementations to see how they currently parse telephone numbers with unexpected characters in them? Part of the problem may be that there doesn't seem to be any clear specification of what a valid telephone number is, so far as I can see—which is just from reading RFC 2426 §3.3, which says that it should simply be the telephone format defined in X.500 (RFC 1274), but there is no explicit definition in X.500 except to say it is "telephoneNumberSyntax", which is defined in RFC 1778 §2.16 as simply being a printable string. Perhaps I've gone off down a blind alley! (Do we need a page for character encoding/Unicode issues?)
    • ACCEPTED FAQ, parsing. microformats depend on the character parsing of the language they are in. In this case, let's for example see what HTML4 and HTML5 say, and advise accordingly in hcard-faq and hcard-parsing. Tantek 08:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

resolved 2010

resolved issue 2010-02-03 raised by Philip Jägenstedt

see also

hCard resolved issues was last modified: Tuesday, July 20th, 2010

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