Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

assistive-technology-abbr-results

2008-05-22T14:13:35Z

EatYourGreens: input type="hidden" is valid inside any block-level parent. Doesn't require FORM.

<h1>abbr-design-pattern alternatives</h1>
This page is for document the precise results of using [[assistive-technology]] with real world examples in the wild of the abbr design pattern, as nearly always used by [[hcalendar|hCalendar]] (e.g. dtstart, dtend), often by [[hreview|hReview]] (e.g. dtreviewed, rating) and sometimes by [[hcard|hCard]] (e.g. bday, type subproperty) and by [[geo|Geo]].

__TOC__

Each [[assistive-technology]] listed here should link to a precise description of the tool/service on the [[assistive-technology]] page, including version number, when published, etc. Each test result listed for each assistive technology should link to the example that was tested.

== Test Cases ==
The [http://www.webstandards.org/action/atf/ WaSP Accessibility Task Force] has developed a set of ([http://cookiecrook.com/test/uf/testcases/ extended test cases]]) that cover the following data formats and markup formats.

===Data Formats===
* ISO 8601 date with punctuation (YYYY-MM-DD)
* ISO 8601 datetime with punctuation (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS)
* ISO 8601 datetime with punctuation and no seconds (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM)
* ISO 8601 UTC datetime with punctuation (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SSZ)
* ISO 8601 pre-UTC datetime with punctuation (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS+HH:MM)
* ISO 8601 pre-UTC datetime with punctuation and no timezone minutes (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS+HH)
* ISO 8601 post-UTC datetime with punctuation (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS-HH:MM)
* ISO 8601 post-UTC datetime with punctuation and no timezone minutes (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS-HH)
* ISO 8601 datetime with punctuation but w/o timezone punctuation. ''The hypothesis is that something like "eleven o'clock plus oh seven hundred" may be more understandable than "eleven o'clock plus seven o'clock" (similarly for the hyphen, read as "dash").''
** pre-UTC (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS+HHMM)
** post-UTC (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS-HHMM)
* GEO Latitude/Longitude coordinates.
* ISO 8601 durations
* ISO 8601 recurrences

=== Rejected Data formats ===
Dates without punctuation as they have proved unusable. Proof is premise for [[http://www.webstandards.org/2007/04/27/haccessibility/ hAccessibility]] article on the Web Standards Project Buzz blog. Window Eyes and JAWS read un-punctuated dates as single number. [[http://www.webstandards.org/files/atf_microformats/jaws.mp3 JAWS 8 on IE7 citation (MP3 Audio)]] of "twenty million seventy-thousand three-hundred twelve" is reason enough for rejection.
* ISO 8601 date without dashes (YYYYMMDD)
* ISO 8601 datetime without dashes and colons (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSS)
* ISO 8601 datetime without dashes and colons and no seconds (YYYYMMDDTHHMM)
* ISO 8601 UTC datetime without dashes and colons (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSSZ)
* ISO 8601 pre-UTC datetime without dashes and colons (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSSZ+HHMM)
* ISO 8601 pre-UTC datetime without dashes and colons and no timezone minutes (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSSZ+HH)
* ISO 8601 post-UTC datetime without dashes and colons (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSSZ-HHMM)
* ISO 8601 post-UTC datetime without dashes and colons and no timezone minutes (YYYYMMDDTHHMMSSZ-HH)

===Markup Possibilities===
==== Valid HTML4 ====
* abbr-design-pattern (as currently recommended)
* abbr-design-pattern with "data " (or similar) prefix (<code><nowiki><abbr title="data: 20070713">13th</a></nowiki></code>)
* SPAN element with title attribute (with or without [[title-trigger]] as it behaves no differently in any known screen reader).
* SPAN element with "data " (or similar) prefix, as above.
** Proposed in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-December/011173.html microformats-discuss/2007-December/011173.html]
** Has advantage of allowing plain-language title also; see [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-February/011583.html microformats-discuss/2008-February/011583.html]
* [[dfn-design-pattern|DFN element with title attribute.]]
* Non-linked anchor element with title attribute. (<code><nowiki><a class="dtstart" title="20070713">13th</a></nowiki></code>)
* Nested SPAN element.
* Nested ABBR element.
* Nested DFN element (See: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-May/000335.html mailing list thread], verify at [http://alistapart.com/articles/hattrick ALA article]).
* Empty INS element with DATETIME attr (<code><nowiki><span class="dtstart">13th<ins datetime="20070713"></ins></span></nowiki></code>)
* Rarely used event handler. e.g. (<code><nowiki><span class="dtstart" onchange="void(20070713)">13th</span></nowiki></code>)
* Hidden INPUT element
* Empty ABBR element (<code><nowiki><span class="dtstart">13th<abbr title="20070713"></abbr></span></nowiki></code>)

==== Invalid HTML4 ====
Markup possibilities that are invalid in HTML4/XHTML1 are noted here to be clear that they were considered and rejected. Since microformats build on [[posh]], any technique that is invalid semantic (X)HTML is unacceptable for a microformats solution. There is no need to bother testing these.
* SPAN with RDF dc:date attribute.
* SPAN with RDF geo:position attribute.
* Anchor element with name attr (<code><nowiki><a class="dtstart" name="iso8601:20070713">13th</a></nowiki></code>) *[name] does not need to be unique, but a[name] does. [http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#h-12.2.1 HTML 4.01 Strict, 12.2.1]

==== Markup Rejections ====
* OBJECT with param value. (requires significant extra markup and CSS in order to *behave* correctly)
* OBJECT with in-page data attribute. (See [[include-pattern-feedback#Objects_and_Browser_Behavior]])

===Screenreader Language Pronunciations===
Localization is not the job of Microformats, so multiple human languages (English, Spanish, etc.) is irrelevant.

===Verbosity settings===

* Punctuation, speak none.
* Punctuation, speak some.
* Punctuation, speak all.
* Title attributes, speak none.
* Title attributes, speak some (abbr and acronym).
* Title attributes, speak all.

===Screenreaders===
* Freedom Scientific JAWS (multiple versions TBD)
* GW Micro Window Eyes (multiple versions TBD)
* Apple Voiceover (multiple versions TBD)
* Dolphin HAL (multiple versions TBD)

== Results ==

<s>Please provide hyperlinks to examples in the wild for each case that is to be tested. Test cases with example in the wild URLs merit more testing than those without.</s> The purpose of these test cases is to find the best solution, whether or not it is currently being used.

Results to be determined.

== See Also ==
* [[accessibility]]
* [[assistive-technology]]

governance-issues

2008-03-11T19:11:46Z

EatYourGreens: /* Petition */

== Issue Summary 2007-02-28 ==
=== Editor ===
[http://www.opendarwin.org/~drernie/ Ernest Prabhakar]

=== Contributors ===
*[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* Joe Andrieu
* Phae
* Ryan Cannon
* Colin Barrett
* ... Please add yourself.

== Preamble ==
Over the last year, a few people (AndyMabbett, JoeAndrieu, ErnestPrabhakar, JamesCraig, [[User:ManuSporny|ManuSporny]]) have raised issues about how the Microformats wiki, mailing list, and community are governed. This page is here to discuss ideas for documenting, formalizing, and/or improving our collective governance.

== Abstract ==
Governance has [http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/vs-sb/voluntarysector/glossary.html been defined] as "the traditions, institutions and processes that determine how power is exercised, how citizens are given a voice, and how decisions are made on issues of public concern." In the context of Microformats, it covers:
* Rules (both written and unwritten) expected of community members
* Formal process for change requests for known format problems (i.e. abbr-design-pattern) by voting, with leeway for admin vetoes.
* Who the various Admins are
* What powers Admins have
* Rules for how/when Admins can/should use those powers
* How to questioning/appealing a decision by an Admin
* How to become an Admin
* How to question/change any of these

While not all of these need to be explicitly spelled out, a healthy community our size requires a broad shared understanding of these facts -- as well as acceptance of them as "legitimate."

== Who Are Admins ==
* 2007-01-04 raised by [[User:DrErnie|DrErnie]] on [[microformats-issues]], before this page existed, and moved from there
*# ''As discussed in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-January/008011.html], there exist various concerns about the lack of clarity regarding governance of the list, wiki, and the specifications themselves. While agree that there does need to be some form of strong leadership to preserve the integrity of the community, I agree with [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-January/008022.html Colin Barrett] when he said:''
:::"I think there should be bit more visible superstructure around just who is in this "cabal". It seems to me like the Editors/Authors of the various specs form the majority it of it, but perhaps that should be made a bit more apparent, and the "powers" of an editor (essentially, the ability to veto changes to the wiki, it seems) outlined a bit and some information about how to become an editor (AFIACT, make numerous, quality edits to the Wiki that the other editors approve of)."
:An entry has been added to the FAQ regarding [http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q:_Who_controls_microformats.3F Who controls microformats?].[[User:DrErnie|Dr. Ernie]] 08:48, 2 Feb 2007 (PST)

== Mailing List Unmoderation Discussion ==
Discussion from [[mailing-list-unmoderation]].

* I'm glad to see this issue getting traction. However, I'm curious why Ernie's standing in the community is relevant to the issue of unmoderating Andy. Tantek, could you explain why that has been presented as an integral part of this decision making process? Clearly, personal clout always shapes one's ability to influence the community; however, I doubt it should be officially incorporated in these "proceedings". Shouldn't every member of the community have an equal hearing under whatever governance procedures we use? [[User:JoeAndrieu|JoeAndrieu]] 09:38, 19 Mar 2007 (PDT)

:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-March/009066.html Tantek also said]: "''Ernie, as someone who has made overwhelmingly positive contributions to the microformats community, IMHO the occasional OT post is reasonable'".
* I believe the statement was added to give context to the appealing member of the community. i.e. Ernie is a long standing, good contributor, as opposed to someone new who has no experience with this particular community or someone who has had little or no interaction with the community until now, and also negates it being a personal statement (rather he is interested in community as a whole, instead of being a friend of the Andy and having a personal goal, for example). Basically, he is a person with a certain amount of credibility and trustworthiness. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 10:25, 19 Mar 2007 (PDT)
* Agreed, Phae, Ernie is such a person and that is Tantek's point. But should one need to be a "friend of the court" to bring an action? That practice reinforces a culture of privilege that has historically proven antithetical to transparency and equality, both characteristics of good governance, IMO. It is great to see the powers-that-be responding to Ernie's request. It is also a bit frustrating that only those deemed meritorious by the peerage can call forth due process and that Andy's own efforts to speak on his behalf--referencing my previous request to do the same--were summarily dismissed by Tantek because they were "adversarial." Any robust governance should, IMO, work independent of privilege and be capable of addressing adversarial situations without arbitrary limits on the speech of those whose liberties are under challenge.--[[User:JoeAndrieu|JoeAndrieu]] 14:18, 19 Mar 2007 (PDT)
** Point taken and appreciated, but this is the first incident to come to this kind of a situation where someone else has felt the need to step in, and just happened to also involve someone that is felt to be a member of good standing. I'd like to hope that if another member of the community had felt a similar way and had chosen to bring it up, that it would also have been dealt with in this open manner (and I'm sure this incident will be brought up in the future). Hopefully this incident will be a good test case to better structure future interactions with administration. I can't personally comment on Andy's own appeals. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 14:45, 19 Mar 2007 (PDT)
**Agreed. The first efforts to work through a process like this are bound to be less than ideal. However, I'd like to get on the record two main points that appear problematic.
# [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008490.html my previous request to do the same] was not, in fact, dealt with in this open manner. Rather it decayed into a defensive debate about governance generally, leaving poor Andy stuck in moderated censure. Perhaps I'm not the most diplomatic sort, but the issue on the table is not about me. It is about Andy's continuing moderation.
# The [[mailing-list-unmoderation|unmoderation wiki page]] for Andy is effectively a public hearing on Andy's standing and privileges in the community, especially with [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-March/009066.html Tantek's request] that no replies be sent to the email list on the topic. I find it particularly disturbing that Andy's efforts to contribute to that hearing have been [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-list-unmoderation&diff=14419&oldid=14416 repeatedly] [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-list-unmoderation&diff=14456&oldid=14454 dismissed] by Tantek (see the [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-list-unmoderation&action=history history] for a complete list). While It probably wasn't the best form for Andy to edit my comment directly, he should, IMO, have a way to voice his opinion on the matter. He's been threatened with a ban if he does so on the mailing list. Is there another venue that is more appropriate than the wiki page taking input and votes on his unmoderation?--[[User:JoeAndrieu|JoeAndrieu]] 20:19, 19 Mar 2007 (PDT)
* Shouldn't this point be moot? According to the terms of the moderation, it will be lifted "if he successfully sends only topical / positive / improving email to the lists for one week." Once the week passed, this moderation ought to have been lifted automatically, and should not require a vote, right? --[[User:RCanine|Ryan Cannon]]
** At least one message was rejected during that first week, thus moderation was left as is, with the attention of the admins etc. focused on other higher priority matters. Given the higher quality of messages *with* moderation (as compared to before), some have made the statement that moderation is "working" and thus should be kept. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 08:58, 22 Mar 2007 (PDT)
* I dislike moderation because I find it causes me to be hesitant with my own contributions in some cases. Since I don't often know how long a message has been queued its hard for me to judge if my reply would be helpful, or if the moderated poster has already moved along with the rest of the discussion so I err on the side of moving onto something else. doesn't hurt me, but I feel sometimes it might not help with the overall discussions depth or conclusion. . Thus, I think the burden should be heavy to continue moderation for any length of time without a decision to unmoderate or outright ban. [[User:ChrisCasciano|ChrisCasciano]] 11:40, 23 Mar 2007 (ET)

== Examples ==
''Note: This is not to take a position on whether or not any of these decisions were appropriate or inappropriate. Rather, the existence of these events demonstrates the need to document why and how such decisions were -- or should be -- made and/or appealed.''

* Labelling microformats schema discussions as [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-March/003551.html off-topic]
** Already covered by the [[microformats]] principles.
* Issue rejection [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008864.html governance]
* Negative, PoV and derogatory edit summary content such as "[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=13621&oldid=12276#Add_To_Address_Book_Links smelled of excessive political correctness worrying]" and "[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&curid=1110&diff=13989&oldid=13988&rcid=23801 removed non-productive comment]".
** Removal of negative content from the wiki is not a negative. The Admins use their best judgment.
*[[rejected-formats#Pavatar|listing of items as "rejected"]] when [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-January/008271.html requests for evidence of said rejection] reveal none.
** Not every email can be answered, nor should anyone expect them to be. In this case the rejection is in the mailing list archives.
* Despite an assurance that "all of the admins will be apropriately (sic) listed on the wiki page [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008526.html]", the [http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q:_Who_controls_microformats.3F list given in FAQ] is prefaced with the qualifier "including".
** Reference for assurance? No such assurance should ever have been given.
* Removal of disputed edits / removal of negative content from the wiki
**[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-list-unmoderation&diff=next&oldid=14416 mailing-list-unmoderation (16:12, 19 Mar 2007)]
**[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance&curid=3084&diff=0&oldid=14390&rcid=24255 governance (12:50, 19 Mar 2007)]
** [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=14401&oldid=14396 governance-issues (14:55, 19 Mar 2007)]
**[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&curid=1297&diff=14391&oldid=14389&rcid=24254 mailing-lists (12:42, 19 Mar 2007)]

== Proposal ==

# Create a publicly-visible ''microformats-admin'' mailing list, for easily identifying and contacting all admins
# Document a forum/mechanism/process where individuals concerned about admin actions can legitimately raise their concerns, to ensure substantive issues are addressed
# Maintain a [[governance]] page that captures and describes
## the identity of current Admins
## how to contact them
## the process for becoming an Admin
## the specific kinds of behavior warranting Admin intervention
## how/when suspended/moderated individuals can return to "good standing"
## how to appeal an Admin decision/action

== Petition ==

We acknowledge that the microformats list and wiki is not a democracy, and that one of the key goals of microformats is to have as little process and structure as possible. However, at the same time we believe that the "dictatorship" needs to not merely ''be'', but ''be seen as'' "benevolent." This includes some minimal level of transparency and due process to ensure that there are legitimate ways for ordinary members to speak out if they feel (rightly or wrongly) that a particular administrative action was unwise or unfair. Whether that is similar to the '''[[#Proposal]]''' above, or a counter-proposal by the ''admin'' team, we believe that something is necessary.
:''Please add your vote here''
*+1 Ernest Prabhakar
*+1 Joe Andrieu
*+1 James Craig
*+1 Steve Robillard
*+1 Chris Messina
*+1 [[User:ManuSporny|ManuSporny]] 08:59, 3 Aug 2007 (PDT)
*+1 Ben Buchanan
*+1 [[User:EatYourGreens|Jim O'Donnell]]

== Resources ==

* [http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Clay Shirky] on a group as its own worst enemy
* [http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199600005 Cory Doctorow] on Internet Jerks

User:EatYourGreens

2008-01-09T13:54:19Z

EatYourGreens:

Hello, I'm Jim. Here is my infrequently updated blog thing [http://eatyourgreens.org.uk Eat Your Greens]

events/2008-london-microformats-vevent

2008-01-09T13:51:55Z

EatYourGreens: /* Attending */

= London Microformats vEvent =

This is a social [[events|event]] planned for the first quarter of 2008 in London.

__TOC__

== Details ==

TBC

This page will be filled as details are decided.

== Summary ==
We hope to put on a small social event in London in the first quarter of 2008. It'll feature a couple of speakers on the topic of microformats and the semantic web and hopefully some drinks too.

'''Note:''' '''If you don't want to sign up for the wiki''' to register your interest, drop a comment on this blog entry instead. Thanks! http://fberriman.com/2007/12/12/london-microformats-vevent/

== Organisers ==
*[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] - http://fberriman.com
*[[User:DrewMcLellan|Drew McLellan]] - http://allinthehead.com

== Attending ==
Please put yourself down if you're interested in attending an event in the first part of 2008. We're currently using this page to gauge interest right now.
#Luca Postpischl (february would be better for me)
# PJ Barry
# Jonathan Chetwynd - http://www.peepo.co.uk
# James Darling
# Jason Cale
# David Thompson
# Adam Liptrot
# Mark Ford
# Elliot Jay Stocks
# Mark Ng
# Julian Stahnke
# Simon Jobling
# George Ornbo
# Ben Ward
# [[User:Adactio|Jeremy Keith]]
# [[User:Premasagar|Premasagar Rose]]
# Suleiman Leadbitter
# Matthew Pennell
# Dirk Ginader
# Ribot
# Matt Harris
# [[User:NeilCrosby|Neil Crosby]]
# David Emery
# [[User:Dotcode|Jude Robinson]]
# [[User:TomMorris|Tom Morris]]
# [[User:CtrlSpc| Jason Marshall]]
# [[User:NigelCrawley| Nigel Crawley]]
# Glenn Jones
# [[User:IvanOats | Ivan Storck]]
# [[User:Antix | Anthony Johnston]]
# [[User:LaurianGridinoc | Laurian Gridinoc]]
# [[User:Utku | Utku Can Akyuz]]
# Andy Field
# [[User:RiccardoCambiassi|Riccardo Cambiassi]]
# Phil Parry
# [[User:CazMockett|Caz Mockett]]
# [[User:LightSurgery|Justin Goring]]
# [[User:RichardDallaway|Richard Dallaway]]
# David Singleton
# Jake Archibald
# James Stewart
# [[User:GavinBell|Gavin Bell]]
# [[User:MWTE|Michal Ordon]]
# Jamin Ellis
# Jeff Tupholme
# [[User:BenjaminNowack|Benjamin Nowack]]
# Fraser Pearce
# [[User:EatYourGreens|Jim O'Donnell]]

== Blog Posts ==

== Photos ==

== Additional Links / Information ==

hcard-examples-issues

2008-01-05T15:15:15Z

EatYourGreens:

<h1>hCard examples issues</h1>

Issues with specific examples and techniques recommended on the [[hcard-examples]] page, grouped by similar heading.

== Issues ==

=== MSN Messenger ===

Regarding [[hcard-examples#MSN_Messenger]] which was updated 14 May 2006 - [http://www.wackomenace.co.uk/ Ruben]

Ruben, I tried this, and "msnim:" is an unrecognized protocol on MacOSX.4 (this is with the latest MSN Messenger for Mac installed and running and logged int). Could you provide links to documentation about "msnim:" and links to actual pages that publish their MSNIM ids this way? I don't know of any - [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]

: Tantek, Wikipedia's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Windows_Live_Messenger History of Windows Live Messenger] states that MSN Messenger 7.5 for Windows, among other things, introduced: "the msnim protocol handler, allowing Web sites to provide links which automatically add a contact or start conversations (for example clicking on link msnim:chat?contact=login@passport.net will start chat conversation with user login@passport.net).". The Mac version is notoriously lagging behind, sadly. --''[[User:Chucker|chucker]] 11:33, 29 Jun 2006 (PDT)''

It also seems that the msnim protocol handler in only supported by Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 (haven't tried earlier versions) on Windows. Latest versions of Firefox, Opera and Netscape Navigator doesn't recognize the protocol. Well, for at least, not at the moment. - [http://www.juhaliikala.com/ Juha Liikala]

=== ADR type definition and LABEL type definition ===

Both these examples use <abbr> to mark up text which is not an abbreviation of the title of the <abbr> tag. Shouldn't these be replaced with examples that use semantic markup? [http://eatyourgreens.org.uk Jim O'Donnell]

== See Also ==
* [[hcard-examples]]