Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

hatom-examples-in-wild

2008-05-22T15:56:56Z

KebabKing: /* 0.1 hAtom examples */

=hAtom Examples in the Wild=

The following sites have implemented [[hatom|hAtom]], and thus are a great place to start for anyone looking for examples "in the wild" to try parsing, indexing, organizing etc. If your site marked up with hAtom, feel free to add it o the '''top''' of this list. Please check back after a few days, to see if anyone has found any problems with the examples supplied.

== 0.1 hAtom examples==

* [http://www.vibereview.com/ VibeReview] uses hAtom for sex toy reviews and articles (no nudity, but still maybe NSFW). Two feeds can be found on the homepage.
* [http://www.linuxinfusion.com/ Linux Infusion] uses hAtom for blog posts and comments.
* Joseph Bergantine has used hAtom to mark up [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/my-microwave-has-a-button-that-says-record blog posts], [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/ article lists], and [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/doneish#comment000068 comments]
* [http://microrevie.ws/ MicroReviews] marks up each review with [[hAtom]] so that every page can be a feed. See [http://microrevie.ws/ the home page] or [http://microrevie.ws/★★★★★ 5-Star Reviews]
* LocalHero (localhero dot biz) A local search which returns it search results in hatom (as well as other microformats).
* [http://blog.livedoor.jp/forestk/ forestk's blog] uses hAtom (note it is Japanese!)
* [http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/ Niall Kennedy's Weblog] features hAtom on every page. includes comments.
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/ WebOrganics] - Has hAtom feeds on every page.
* [http://journal.redflavor.com/ Reprise] - A [http://redflavor.com/reprise.rb minimal blog] application which uses hAtom out of the box.
* [http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/bangladeshboat BBC World Service Bangladesh River Journey] a social network mashup, with hAtom entries & other microformats. See [http://dharmafly.com/blog/bangladeshboat Dharmafly blog discussion].
* [http://www.people.com/people/news/ People Magazine] uses hAtom to markup the latest news stories.
* [http://www.bo.ingv.it/italiano/News.html Istituto Nazionale Geofisica e Vulcanologia, Bologna] implemented hAtom entries with embedded rel-tags for categories in its news-page (custom template for [http://www.modxcms.com MODx CMS]).
* [http://v1.itvp.pl/blog/przebojowanoc/i.tvp/idb/24/ ITVP] uses hAtom for entries. See [http://twitter.com/Wojtek/statuses/299700082 Wojtek's announcement 2007-09-28].
* [http://shiftingpixel.com Shifting Pixel] uses hAtom for blog posts and comments.
* [http://lazylibrary.com LazyLibrary] uses hAtom on book results pages.
* [http://findsubstance.com Find Substance Blog] uses hAtom for blog posts.
* [http://www.blogger.com Blogger]
** [http://groups.google.com/group/bloggerDev/browse_thread/thread/69344c5cc35b472e Announcement] on Blogger Dev that all new blogs will have hAtom classes
* AOL
**[http://news.aol.com AOL News], AOL News has implemented hAtom into their center column. This display will be used on other AOL channels as well
**[http://sports.aol.com AOL Sports], AOL Sports is the second AOL channel to use the hAtom display for its center column data
* [http://www.creation.uk.com Creation design & marketing] uses hAtom for a lot of the content as well as [http://www.creation.uk.com/news/2007/06/06/easy-money/ comments on articles].
* [http://www.sndbx.org/ The Sandbox Designs Competition] uses hAtom for all content, hCard for participant (the competition designers) and sponsor information, hCalendar for the competition schedule, XFN for links, and rel-license for licensing information. It's all GNU GPL.
* [http://guyleech.net guyleech.net] uses hAtom for blog posts, and uses hCard for contact information. There is also an [http://guyleech.net/technical/html/minimal-microformats article] on how to minimise hAtom, to save time and code.
* [http://kpumuk.info/ Dmytro Shteflyuk] uses hAtom for all blog posts.
* [http://blog.no-panic.at Florian Beer] uses hAtom to mark up all the blog posts. There is also a [http://blog.no-panic.at/2006/11/16/hatom-and-wordpress/ tutorial] on how to convert Wordpress themes to include hAtom.
* [http://ficlets.com/ Ficlets] uses hAtom on the [http://ficlets.com/stories main stories page] and on [http://ficlets.com/stories/12 individual story pages].
* [http://www.international.unt.edu UNT International] uses hAtom combined with hCard on news/announcement pages (e.g., [http://www.international.unt.edu/quick/news the main news page]) in addition to providing traditional Atom feeds
* [http://www.absalom.net.au Absalom Media] uses hAtom combined with hCard for articles.
* [http://www.joomlamug.com Joomla! Melbourne User Group] uses hAtom combined with hCard for articles.
* [http://www.volume.co.uk Volume] - Main news page is marked up as hAtom 0.1
* [http://yedda.com Yedda] - Yedda support hAtom on exploration of questions where there is also support for Atom and RSS feeds. ([http://yedda.com/questions/recent/ example])
* The [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ West Midland Bird Club's] frequently-updated [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm What's New] page, [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ladywalk/latest.htm news from its Ladywalk Reserve] and [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/worcs/grimley/latest.htm news from Grimley Pits] — comments welcome on my talk page [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* [http://pixelsebi.com pixelsebi's repository] uses hAtom 0.1 for blog posts (and hCard, hCalendar, XFN, xFolk and many more) based on manual WordPress template modifications
* [http://www.qmpeople.com/ qmpeople] uses hAtom combined with hCard for [http://www.qmpeople.com/blog/ blog].
* [http://www.geekinthepark.co.uk Geek in the Park] uses hAtom for the comments. -- by [[User:Trovster|trovster]]
* [http://www.csarven.ca Sarven Capadisli] uses hAtom for the articles and comments -- by [[User:Csarven|csarven]]
* [http://www.capital.edu Capital University] uses hAtom 0.1 to mark up the feed of latest posts by student bloggers on its home page.
* [http://blog.davidjanes.com Ranting and Roaring] (David Janes)
* [http://ChunkySoup.net/ ChunkySoup.net] has redesigned using hAtom 0.1 and hCards on the entire site — by [[User:ChrisCasciano|Chris Casciano]]
* [http://sedna.spip.org/sedna/ Sedna RSS] (a feed aggregator based on SPIP, by Fil, IZO and others; GPLd sources are available at [http://zone.spip.org/trac/spip-zone/browser/_squelettes_/sedna SPIP-Zone])
* [http://quotedprintable.com/pages/scribbish Scribbish] is a Typo theme which uses hAtom.
* [http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/Changelog/ hAtom2Atom.xsl's Changelog] is published as hAtom and Atom.
* [http://federali.st/ federali.st]'s webbed Federalist Papers are each marked up in hAtom.
* [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/sandbox/ Sandbox] is a theme for [http://wordpress.org/ WordPress] that uses hAtom.
** The theme is also available to accounts on the [http://wordpress.com/ <username>.wordpress.com] hosting service. The [http://blog.coworking.info Coworking] and [http://barcamp.wordpress.com BarCamp] blogs are examples of custom Sandbox themes.
** Over 40 designs available for the Sandbox at the [http://www.sndbx.org/ Sandbox Designs Competition], which also uses hAtom
* [http://www.whump.com/dropbox/Strangelove.zip Strangelove] is a modification of the default WordPress theme (Kubrick) with hAtom support.
** It points to the hAtom2Atom proxy service as the link for syndication feeds.
* All [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/ plaintxt.org themes] for [http://wordpress.org/ WordPress] now use hAtom. The themes are also coded for hCard compliance. The themes, by name, are:
** [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/barthelme/ Barthelme] (two-column, fluid), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/blogtxt/ blog.txt] (two- or three-column, elastic), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/plaintxtblog/ plaintxtBlog] (three-column, fluid), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/simplr/ Simplr] (one column, elastic), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/veryplaintxt/ veryplaintxt] (two column, fluid)
* [http://www.pats.ua.ac.be/courses PATS Courses], the PATS Research Group uses hAtom to mark up the latest course documents for some of their courses
* [http://mix.excite.co.uk Excite MIX], the Ajax Start Page from Excite Europe, uses hAtom 0.1 and hCard in the Feed Viewer to mark up feed entries and authors.
* [http://last.fm Last.FM], a social music sharing platform, uses hAtom markup for [http://blog.last.fm/2007/05/30/rss-your-shoutbox-and-you shoutbox], and recommends using [http://tools.microformatic.com microformatic]'s transcode tool
* [http://vlograzor.com/ Vlog Razor] - Contains multiple hAtom feeds on the same page.


==Examples with some problems==

Entries may be moved here if there's a problem with the way hAtom is used on the page concerned. If the page is yours, and you want to improve it, see the [[hatom-faq|hAtom FAQ]], or raise any queries on [[hatom-issues|hAtom Issues]] or [[mailing-lists#microformats-discuss|the mailing list]], where people will be happy to help you.

=== Pre 0.1 hAtom examples===
These pages conform to an older draft standard and need to be updated.

* [http://www.myelin.co.nz/post/ Second p0st] (Phil Pearson)

==See Also==
{{hatom-related-pages}}

hatom-examples-in-wild

2008-05-22T15:55:45Z

KebabKing: /* 0.1 hAtom examples */

=hAtom Examples in the Wild=

The following sites have implemented [[hatom|hAtom]], and thus are a great place to start for anyone looking for examples "in the wild" to try parsing, indexing, organizing etc. If your site marked up with hAtom, feel free to add it o the '''top''' of this list. Please check back after a few days, to see if anyone has found any problems with the examples supplied.

== 0.1 hAtom examples==

* [http://www.vibereview.com/ VibeReview] uses hAtom for sex toy reviews and articles (no nudity, but still maybe NSFW).
* [http://www.linuxinfusion.com/ Linux Infusion] uses hAtom for blog posts and comments.
* Joseph Bergantine has used hAtom to mark up [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/my-microwave-has-a-button-that-says-record blog posts], [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/ article lists], and [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/doneish#comment000068 comments]
* [http://microrevie.ws/ MicroReviews] marks up each review with [[hAtom]] so that every page can be a feed. See [http://microrevie.ws/ the home page] or [http://microrevie.ws/★★★★★ 5-Star Reviews]
* LocalHero (localhero dot biz) A local search which returns it search results in hatom (as well as other microformats).
* [http://blog.livedoor.jp/forestk/ forestk's blog] uses hAtom (note it is Japanese!)
* [http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/ Niall Kennedy's Weblog] features hAtom on every page. includes comments.
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/ WebOrganics] - Has hAtom feeds on every page.
* [http://journal.redflavor.com/ Reprise] - A [http://redflavor.com/reprise.rb minimal blog] application which uses hAtom out of the box.
* [http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/bangladeshboat BBC World Service Bangladesh River Journey] a social network mashup, with hAtom entries & other microformats. See [http://dharmafly.com/blog/bangladeshboat Dharmafly blog discussion].
* [http://www.people.com/people/news/ People Magazine] uses hAtom to markup the latest news stories.
* [http://www.bo.ingv.it/italiano/News.html Istituto Nazionale Geofisica e Vulcanologia, Bologna] implemented hAtom entries with embedded rel-tags for categories in its news-page (custom template for [http://www.modxcms.com MODx CMS]).
* [http://v1.itvp.pl/blog/przebojowanoc/i.tvp/idb/24/ ITVP] uses hAtom for entries. See [http://twitter.com/Wojtek/statuses/299700082 Wojtek's announcement 2007-09-28].
* [http://shiftingpixel.com Shifting Pixel] uses hAtom for blog posts and comments.
* [http://lazylibrary.com LazyLibrary] uses hAtom on book results pages.
* [http://findsubstance.com Find Substance Blog] uses hAtom for blog posts.
* [http://www.blogger.com Blogger]
** [http://groups.google.com/group/bloggerDev/browse_thread/thread/69344c5cc35b472e Announcement] on Blogger Dev that all new blogs will have hAtom classes
* AOL
**[http://news.aol.com AOL News], AOL News has implemented hAtom into their center column. This display will be used on other AOL channels as well
**[http://sports.aol.com AOL Sports], AOL Sports is the second AOL channel to use the hAtom display for its center column data
* [http://www.creation.uk.com Creation design & marketing] uses hAtom for a lot of the content as well as [http://www.creation.uk.com/news/2007/06/06/easy-money/ comments on articles].
* [http://www.sndbx.org/ The Sandbox Designs Competition] uses hAtom for all content, hCard for participant (the competition designers) and sponsor information, hCalendar for the competition schedule, XFN for links, and rel-license for licensing information. It's all GNU GPL.
* [http://guyleech.net guyleech.net] uses hAtom for blog posts, and uses hCard for contact information. There is also an [http://guyleech.net/technical/html/minimal-microformats article] on how to minimise hAtom, to save time and code.
* [http://kpumuk.info/ Dmytro Shteflyuk] uses hAtom for all blog posts.
* [http://blog.no-panic.at Florian Beer] uses hAtom to mark up all the blog posts. There is also a [http://blog.no-panic.at/2006/11/16/hatom-and-wordpress/ tutorial] on how to convert Wordpress themes to include hAtom.
* [http://ficlets.com/ Ficlets] uses hAtom on the [http://ficlets.com/stories main stories page] and on [http://ficlets.com/stories/12 individual story pages].
* [http://www.international.unt.edu UNT International] uses hAtom combined with hCard on news/announcement pages (e.g., [http://www.international.unt.edu/quick/news the main news page]) in addition to providing traditional Atom feeds
* [http://www.absalom.net.au Absalom Media] uses hAtom combined with hCard for articles.
* [http://www.joomlamug.com Joomla! Melbourne User Group] uses hAtom combined with hCard for articles.
* [http://www.volume.co.uk Volume] - Main news page is marked up as hAtom 0.1
* [http://yedda.com Yedda] - Yedda support hAtom on exploration of questions where there is also support for Atom and RSS feeds. ([http://yedda.com/questions/recent/ example])
* The [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ West Midland Bird Club's] frequently-updated [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/new.htm What's New] page, [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/ladywalk/latest.htm news from its Ladywalk Reserve] and [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/worcs/grimley/latest.htm news from Grimley Pits] — comments welcome on my talk page [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* [http://pixelsebi.com pixelsebi's repository] uses hAtom 0.1 for blog posts (and hCard, hCalendar, XFN, xFolk and many more) based on manual WordPress template modifications
* [http://www.qmpeople.com/ qmpeople] uses hAtom combined with hCard for [http://www.qmpeople.com/blog/ blog].
* [http://www.geekinthepark.co.uk Geek in the Park] uses hAtom for the comments. -- by [[User:Trovster|trovster]]
* [http://www.csarven.ca Sarven Capadisli] uses hAtom for the articles and comments -- by [[User:Csarven|csarven]]
* [http://www.capital.edu Capital University] uses hAtom 0.1 to mark up the feed of latest posts by student bloggers on its home page.
* [http://blog.davidjanes.com Ranting and Roaring] (David Janes)
* [http://ChunkySoup.net/ ChunkySoup.net] has redesigned using hAtom 0.1 and hCards on the entire site — by [[User:ChrisCasciano|Chris Casciano]]
* [http://sedna.spip.org/sedna/ Sedna RSS] (a feed aggregator based on SPIP, by Fil, IZO and others; GPLd sources are available at [http://zone.spip.org/trac/spip-zone/browser/_squelettes_/sedna SPIP-Zone])
* [http://quotedprintable.com/pages/scribbish Scribbish] is a Typo theme which uses hAtom.
* [http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/Changelog/ hAtom2Atom.xsl's Changelog] is published as hAtom and Atom.
* [http://federali.st/ federali.st]'s webbed Federalist Papers are each marked up in hAtom.
* [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/sandbox/ Sandbox] is a theme for [http://wordpress.org/ WordPress] that uses hAtom.
** The theme is also available to accounts on the [http://wordpress.com/ <username>.wordpress.com] hosting service. The [http://blog.coworking.info Coworking] and [http://barcamp.wordpress.com BarCamp] blogs are examples of custom Sandbox themes.
** Over 40 designs available for the Sandbox at the [http://www.sndbx.org/ Sandbox Designs Competition], which also uses hAtom
* [http://www.whump.com/dropbox/Strangelove.zip Strangelove] is a modification of the default WordPress theme (Kubrick) with hAtom support.
** It points to the hAtom2Atom proxy service as the link for syndication feeds.
* All [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/ plaintxt.org themes] for [http://wordpress.org/ WordPress] now use hAtom. The themes are also coded for hCard compliance. The themes, by name, are:
** [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/barthelme/ Barthelme] (two-column, fluid), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/blogtxt/ blog.txt] (two- or three-column, elastic), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/plaintxtblog/ plaintxtBlog] (three-column, fluid), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/simplr/ Simplr] (one column, elastic), [http://www.plaintxt.org/themes/veryplaintxt/ veryplaintxt] (two column, fluid)
* [http://www.pats.ua.ac.be/courses PATS Courses], the PATS Research Group uses hAtom to mark up the latest course documents for some of their courses
* [http://mix.excite.co.uk Excite MIX], the Ajax Start Page from Excite Europe, uses hAtom 0.1 and hCard in the Feed Viewer to mark up feed entries and authors.
* [http://last.fm Last.FM], a social music sharing platform, uses hAtom markup for [http://blog.last.fm/2007/05/30/rss-your-shoutbox-and-you shoutbox], and recommends using [http://tools.microformatic.com microformatic]'s transcode tool
* [http://vlograzor.com/ Vlog Razor] - Contains multiple hAtom feeds on the same page.


==Examples with some problems==

Entries may be moved here if there's a problem with the way hAtom is used on the page concerned. If the page is yours, and you want to improve it, see the [[hatom-faq|hAtom FAQ]], or raise any queries on [[hatom-issues|hAtom Issues]] or [[mailing-lists#microformats-discuss|the mailing list]], where people will be happy to help you.

=== Pre 0.1 hAtom examples===
These pages conform to an older draft standard and need to be updated.

* [http://www.myelin.co.nz/post/ Second p0st] (Phil Pearson)

==See Also==
{{hatom-related-pages}}

datetime-design-pattern

2008-05-21T20:16:14Z

KebabKing: /* Current uses */

'''This page is a draft.'''

= Datetime Design Pattern =
This is a page for exploring a datetime design pattern.

== Purpose ==
* Use the [[datetime-design-pattern]] to make datetimes that are human readable also formally machine readable.

== Practical Need ==
* This design pattern arose as a result of solving the practical need for human readable dates for [[hcalendar|hCalendar]].

== How to use it ==
* enclose the human-friendly datetime that you want to make machine readable with <code><abbr></code>
* as per the [[class-design-pattern]], add the appropriate <code>class</code> attribute to the <code>abbr</code> element
* add a <code>title</code> attribute to the <code>abbr</code> element with the machine readable [[iso-8601|ISO8601]] datetime or date as the value

==Current uses==

The pattern, which is now available as part of [[hAtom]], [[hcalendar|hCalendar]], [[hcard|hCard]] and [[hreview|hReview]], is:

:<pre><abbr class="foo" title="YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS+ZZ:ZZ">Date Time</abbr></pre>

where foo is the semantic classname which is being applied to this date/time, the title of the <abbr> is an ISO 8601 date/time, with an appropriate level of specificity, and "Date Time" is a human-friendly representation of the same date/time.

An alternative, if you are using UTC-based timestamps, would be:

:<pre><abbr class="foo" title="YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SSZ">Date Time</abbr></pre>

with a single "Z" as per [[iso-8601|ISO 8601]]

Ruby: An easy way to get this format from a DateTime is this:
:<pre>DateTime.now.to_s</pre>

== Profile of ISO8601 ==

Any [[microformat]] using the date-time-design pattern {{should}} use a profile of [[iso-8601|ISO8601]]. There are currently two widely used profiles which {{should}} be reused.

* RFC 3339
* [http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime W3C Note on Datetimes]

==Accessibility issues==

Note: There are some accessibility issues [http://www.webstandards.org/2007/04/27/haccessibility/] with Datetime Design Pattern, and concerns that its use could breach WCAG accessibility guidelines, that are being addressed as part of the [[abbr-design-pattern-issues]] discussion. Possible change recommendations may follow after the accessibility testing is complete. The accessibility concerns are considerably lessened when using the [[date-design-pattern]], a subset of the [[datetime-design-pattern]].

== Discussion ==

This pattern is likely to be highly resuable.

--[[User:RyanKing]]

Can this not be viewed as a microformat in itself?

--[[User:DimitriGlazkov]]

It could, but inventing a microformat for the sake of inventing a microformat is against the microformat principles.
If there is a specific real world problem (and uses cases) that such an elemental microformat would solve, then it would be worth considering.

Until then it is best to keep the <abbr> datetime concept merely as a microformat design pattern, to be used in _actual_ microformats that have a demonstrated practical need.

-- [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]

Excerpt from #microformats Aug 18th. Please edit!

<pre>
Aug 18 15:16:14 <Tantek> DanC, what do you think of RFC3339?
Aug 18 15:17:14 <Tantek> ISO8601 subset
Aug 18 15:17:19 <DanC> Date and Time on the Internet: Timestamps http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3339.txt
Aug 18 15:17:30 <DanC> Klyne is a good guy. I wonder if I talked with him about this.
Aug 18 15:17:32 <Tantek> compat with W3C-NOTE-DATETIME
Aug 18 15:17:50 <Tantek> compat with xsd:dateTime
Aug 18 15:17:57 <Tantek> it's a strict intersection subset
Aug 18 15:17:59 <DanC> I consider W3C-NOTE-DATETIME obsoleted by XML Schema datatype-- yeah.. xsd:dateTime
Aug 18 15:18:32 <Tantek> compare/contrast normatively using xsd:dateTime vs. RFC3339
Aug 18 15:18:41 <Tantek> note: Atom 1.0 chose RFC3339
Aug 18 15:18:50 <Tantek> i would like input from the microformats community on this
Aug 18 15:19:27 <DanC> in what context are you evaluating RFC 3339?
Aug 18 15:19:28 <jcgregorio> http://bitworking.org/news/Date_Constructs_in_the_Atom_Syndication_Format
Aug 18 15:21:24 <DanC> which microformat is the question coming from, Tantek ?
Aug 18 15:23:31 <DanC> " The grammar element time-second may have the value "60" at the end of
Aug 18 15:23:31 <DanC> months in which a leap second occurs" The XML Schema WG is in the 27th level of
leap-second-hell for the past few months, I gather.
Aug 18 15:24:21 <DanC> yeah... here's the scary bit: " Leap seconds cannot be predicted far into the
future. The
Aug 18 15:24:21 <DanC> International Earth Rotation Service publishes bulletins [IERS] that
Aug 18 15:24:21 <DanC> announce leap seconds with a few weeks' warning."
Aug 18 15:26:03 <Tantek> DanC, which microformats? any/all that use datetime fields.
Aug 18 15:26:36 <DanC> hard to give useful advice, then.
Aug 18 15:26:58 <DanC> I expect they'll use datetime fields for different things that have different
cost/benefit trade-offs
Aug 18 15:27:26 <DanC> do you know of any particular differences that matter to anybody?
Aug 18 15:56:43 <KragenSitaker> RFC3339 suggests -07:00, which seems like an improvement over -0700 anyway
Aug 18 15:56:49 <Tantek> Kragen, agreed
Aug 18 15:57:01 <Tantek> RFC3339 is certainly preferable to the ISO8601 subset in iCalendar
Aug 18 16:05:57 <DanC> Tantek's right, Kragen; iCalendar looks like it solves the local timezone
problem but doesn't.
Aug 18 16:06:14 <DanC> and it's true that there's no standard solution to the local timezone problem
Aug 18 16:06:39 <Tantek> so instead of appearing to solve the problem but not solving it, we chose to
provide the ability to *approximate* the local timezone using e.g. "-07:00"
Aug 18 16:06:49 <DanC> the simplest thing is to have people use Z time in hCalendar. But I gather
that's unacceptably unusable?
Aug 18 16:07:35 <Tantek> DanC, yes, the simplest thing is to have everyone use UTC Z
Aug 18 16:07:38 <Tantek> However
Aug 18 16:07:50 <Tantek> it is not *nearly* as usuable/verifiable
Aug 18 16:07:55 <Tantek> as -07:00 etc.
Aug 18 16:08:02 <Tantek> hence the decision to go with the latter
Aug 18 16:08:12 <Tantek> some degree of human verifiability is important here
Aug 18 16:14:21 <Tantek> DanC, my perception is that RFC3339 is a subset
Aug 18 16:17:00 <DanC> time-numoffset = ("+" / "-") time-hour ":" time-minute
Aug 18 16:17:34 <DanC> ok, then I can't see any differences. (modulo recent leap seconds issues that
may affect xsd:dateTime )
Aug 18 16:18:07 <Tantek> would be interesting to know why Atom 1.0 chose RFC3339 over xsd:dateTime
Aug 18 16:18:21 <Tantek> if there was a "real" reason or if it was arbitrary / coin-flip.
</pre>

Here's an exhaustive [http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg13103.html comparison] from ndw. I think xsd:dateTime also allows unqualified local times, while RFC3339 allows only UTC with no known timezone (-00:00). In the end, Atompub followed the advice of [http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg13244.html Sam Ruby] and [http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg13248.html Scott Hollenbeck], our area director. Atom dates make some additional restrictions on RFC3339, such as uppercase T and Z characters for compatibility with xsd:dateTime, RFC3339, W3C-DTF, and ISO8601. --[http://franklinmint.fm Robert Sayre]

<pre>
Aug 18 16:18:43 <KragenSitaker> rfc3339 is pretty short.
Aug 18 16:19:36 <Tantek> DanC, BTW, which came first? REC for xsd:dateTime or RFC3339?
Aug 18 16:19:50 <DanC> RFC3339 is dated July 2002 ...
Aug 18 16:19:54 <KragenSitaker> Right --- and you might be able to understand xsd:dateTime without
reading all of xml schema, you wouldn't be confident of it
Aug 18 16:20:25 <DanC> W3C Recommendation 28 October 2004 ... but that's 2nd ed...
Aug 18 16:20:47 <DanC> W3C Recommendation 02 May 2001
Aug 18 16:22:10 <DanC> I don't see a BNF in http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xmlschema-2-20010502/#dateTime ...
Aug 18 16:22:43 <KragenSitaker> yeah, appendix D of the current xml schema datatypes document seems
a little scanty, actually
Aug 18 16:23:28 <DanC> ah... 2nd ed of http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#date is much more
explicit about syntax.
Aug 18 16:23:30 <KragenSitaker> it's 1100 words but still doesn't give any examples
Aug 18 16:23:35 <DanC> still, it's given in prose and not BNF
Aug 18 16:24:17 <KragenSitaker> sections 3.2.9 through 3.2.14 seem to be the relevant ones around #date
Aug 18 16:24:29 <KragenSitaker> which is another 2200 words
Aug 18 16:24:42 <DanC> wow... they changed the canonical form of date from always-Z to
timezone-allowed between 1st edition and 2nd edition
Aug 18 16:25:01 <Tantek> Kragen, DanC, these are very good analyses
Aug 18 16:25:21 <Tantek> could I ask you to summarize the pros/cons for each in a new section at
end of http://microformats.org/wiki/datetime-design-pattern
Aug 18 16:25:22 <Tantek> ?
Aug 18 16:25:58 <KragenSitaker> rfc 3339 is 4000 words, excluding the last two pages of boilerplate.
Aug 18 16:26:31 <KragenSitaker> so it's actually longer than the datetime-relevant parts of XSD but it
seems much more rigorous and clear
Aug 18 16:28:37 <DanC> my advice is: normatively cite both, and claim they specify the same
syntax, and let anybody who discovers otherwise send you a bug report
with a test case
Aug 18 16:29:12 <KragenSitaker> danc: nice hack
</pre>

The RFC3339 has a mandatory TIME portion of the DATE-TIME. Some vCard/iCalendar DATE-TIME stamps can omit the TIME. For instance, DTSTART, if that is a full day event, then you can omit the time. BDAY in vCard can be respresented by only a DATE. I like the idea of restricting the possible date formats, but i think that TIME should be optional, which it isn't in RFC3339. - [http://suda.co.uk/ brian suda]

RFC 3339 allows lowercase 't' and 'z' while XSD doesn't. Specifying RFC 3339 plus 'T' and 'Z' MUST be caps will make them the same. - [http://bitworking.org Joe Gregorio]

---

A few questions: asked by [[User:CharlesBelov|CharlesBelov]] 16:57, 24 Apr 2007 (PDT), answered by [[User:JamesCraig|JamesCraig]] on 15:58, 5 Jul 2007 (PDT).

# Would it make more sense for documenting the alternative codings pitting the abbr tag vs. other tags to be on this page? ''Answer: That documentation should go on the [[assistive-technology-abbr-results]] page.''
# Would using the title attribute of the abbr tag to encode the machine-readable date in fact cause a failure of WCAG 2.0 Accessibility? What about USA Section 508? It does appear to violate Technique for WCAG 2.0 [http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/#H28 H28: Providing definitions for abbreviations by using the abbr and acronym elements], although that is a supporting document and does not have the force of a guideline. ''Answer: Yes, it appears that is in violation of WCAG, 508, et al, so alternatives are being discussed on the [[assistive-technology-abbr-results]] page.''
# In order to maintain accessibility, would it make sense to enclose the machine-readable date in a span with a style of "display:none" instead of using the abbr tag? ''Answer: please refer to and add any suggestions to [[assistive-technology-abbr-results]].''
# For that matter, wouldn't you want to style such an abbr tag with text-decoration:none to hide that an abbr tag was used? Otherwise, visitors might cursor over the time, see the machine time, and be annoyed that their time was wasted or else be confused. And I don't think you can suppress the title from coming up if the human-readable time was inadvertently hovered. ''Answer: Microformats should not rely on CSS in order to work properly, but again, that discussion can be found here: [[assistive-technology-abbr-results]].''

== Code ==
The following regular expression (parsed VERBOSE) should break apart a datetime and cover many lightly broken cases seen in the wild. This has been tested under Python.

<pre><nowiki>
^
(?P<year>\d\d\d\d)
([-])?(?P<month>\d\d)
([-])?(?P<day>\d\d)
(
(T|\s+)
(?P<hour>\d\d)
(
([:])?(?P<minute>\d\d)
(
([:])?(?P<second>\d\d)
(
([.])?(?P<fraction>\d+)
)?
)?
)?
)?
(
(?P<tzzulu>Z)
|
(?P<tzoffset>[-+])
(?P<tzhour>\d\d)
([:])?(?P<tzminute>\d\d)
)?
$
</nowiki></pre>

== See Also ==

* [[Main_Page#Design_Patterns|All microformat design patterns]]
* [[abbr-design-pattern]] is used by [[datetime-design-pattern]]
* [[date-design-pattern]] is a subset of [[datetime-design-pattern]]
* HTML 4.01 definition of <code><[http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/text.html#edef-ABBR abbr]></code> element
* RFC [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3339.html 3339]: Date and Time on the Internet: Timestamps
* W3C: [http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime Note on Datetimes]
* Markus Kuhn: [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html A summary of the international standard date and time notation]
* Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 ISO 8601]