http://microformats.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Gut1975&feedformat=atomMicroformats Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T14:15:04ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.38.4http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-issues&diff=42271hnews-issues2010-04-01T14:37:16Z<p>Gut1975: /* Issues */ fixed formatting to new issue to keep it consistent with page look-n-feel</p>
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<div><h1> hNews issues </h1><br />
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__TOC__<br />
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These are externally raised issues about [[hnews|hNews]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the draft. <br />
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'''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[hnews-faq|hNews FAQ]] before giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered.<br />
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Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
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Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
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See related [[hatom-issues]] and [[hcard-issues]].<br />
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== Template ==<br />
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== Issues ==<br />
=== Open Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2010-03-29</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Trondhuso|Trond Husø]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Add lead class/tag</strong>. An article consists of a title, lead and the body content. I would very much like to see the lead attribute/tag being added. I see two possible usages: 1) In a world of AJAX you could show the content related to the lead-part + Click here for more. When you click the link the rest of the article becomes visible. Or it can be used in parts where you load to a title/lead carousel. 2) In RSS/Atom the Lead-part is what you would like to see in the description part of the feed.<br />
** Trond, I really like the idea. I suggest taking a look at using [http://microformats.org/wiki/hAtom#Entry_Summary hAtom entry-summary] for this purpose. I feel the lead paragraph of the typical upside-pyramid-style news story is an ideal value for the [http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format-spec.php#element.summary atom:summary] element. And, by re-using the hAtom conventions in this way, your news item will be semantically available to software focusing on both hAtom and hNews. The Associated Press interpreted Atom in this way, as illustrated by one of [http://hosted.ap.org/lineups/TOPHEADS-atom_0.3.xml?SITE=CAANG&SECTION=HOME AP's public Atom feeds]. [[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]] 14:25, 01 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
** Follow-up comment #2<br />
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{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-16</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Allowable number of item-licenses?</strong>. In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content. Modeling this relationship in the hNews world would result in two or more "item-license" elements, with each item-license element potentially linking to a separate license for each news company. Hence, I think the hNews format should explicitly allow more than one item-license for each "hnews hentry" container. Thoughts?<br />
** If as you say "In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content" then please provide URLs to real world examples that demonstrate as such. Absent any such examples, we must not change hNews for an otherwise assumed to be theoretical example, per microformats [[process]] and [[principles]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Some examples are:<blockquote><p>[http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/preview?gid=2006122911 Capitals-Devils Preview on Yahoo!] which was created under a joint arrangement between AP and STATS, Inc (scroll to page bottom).</p><p>[http://www.kcbd.com/global/story.asp?s=11520396 Colo. medical pot & taxes on KCBD 11 in Lubbock, TX] which was an AP story but since AP and some of its customers have special copyright arrangements, KCBD and its parent company also share copyright on the content (see bottom of page).</p></blockquote>As you can see, it's somewhat inefficient to have the license separate from the content in this way, and I think the hNews schema should permit multiple item-license elements for these situations. [[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]] 16:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-20</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">News, Commentary, and Opinion pieces as they relate to hNews</strong>. An interesting comment came up today when looking at how to use hNews on other AOL properties outside of our main news site, and that is, some of our sites are both news and commentary. Let's take our sports site for example http://www.fanhouse.com/ <br />
<br />
This site reports on sports news with article headlines such as: <br />
[http://www.fanhouse.com/news/nfl/big-ben-tops-pass-rankings/723353 Big Ben tops pass rankings]<br />
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But fanhouse.com also has some obvious opinion pieces such as:<br />
[http://kevin-blackistone.fanhouse.com/2009/10/19/ail-to-the-redskins-worst-run-franchise-on-the-planet/ Fail to the Redskins: Worst-Run Franchise on the Planet]<br />
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Currently we have one publishing system for all of our content within Fanhouse whether it be feed driven, in house publisher, news content, or commentary. So at the moment if one thing gets hNews it all does. <br />
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Have you given this situation thought? My initial thinking is that perhaps this is where a principles statement specific to Fanhouse could account for the different types of content being labeled hNews. <br />
** Very glad you brought this up. We've given this alot of thought. I think your initial thinking is right. Right now the place to distinguish differences such as these (e.g. reporting from opinion) is within the principles statement. But this is something I think would benefit significantly from further development (i.e. the development of additional hNews criteria) [[User:Martinjemoore|Martin Moore]]<br />
** I believe that hNews is applicable to many types of news, ranging from reporting facts, to analysis pieces, opinion and columns. It is not unusual for a given piece of news to be a mix of two or three "types". Really, the purpose of hNews is allow for the common structural components of news to be more clearly marked up. The exact content is less important than the form. However, I also see that there is also value for a publisher of hNews to be able to self-classify the "type" of content. One way to do this would be to use rel-tag to indicate how the publisher would like to describe the hNews-encoded content (as commentary, opinion, analysis, interview, satire or whatever). [[User:Smyles|Stuart Myles]]<br />
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{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".<br />
** Seems like a useful extra to me, any objections ? [[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]<br />
** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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=== Resolved Issues ===<br />
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{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-15</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">XMDP defines 'principles' incorrectly.</strong> The XMDP for hNews defines 'principles' as a class, whereas the rest of the draft refers to it as a link type (i.e. 'rel' value).<br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: thanks for pointing that out. I believe the updated profile reflects that correctly now. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 15:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-13</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">The item-license element is incorrectly described as a class</strong>. The XMDP profile and element description for item-license in hNews describes the element as a class attribute value, however, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container Licensing Brainstorming] proposal describes this field as a link type. In addition, the hNews examples purport item-license as a link type. Which item-license description is correct? <br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: the correct description is as a link (rel). The profile has been updated to reflect that correctly. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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=== Closed Issues ===<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-09</span> raised by <span class="fn">Miles De Feyter</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Implementation of item-license as it relates to hNews</strong>. Reading through the item-license brainstorm it seems to indicate that "item-license" would need to be nested within something with the class of "item". So as this relates to hNews is the suggestion to then have an articles containing div have the three class names of "hnews hentry item"?<br />
** At this point, Miles, that is correct (following the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] concept and guidance). I expect we'll see changes around item-license (it's still just brainstorming), but for the time being, the third class name "item" is needed. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Added to [[hnews-faq]] --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 02:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-28</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Principles as a requirement</strong>. Working for a publishing company that owns and operates a large number of different organizations I'd love to incorporate hNews within our publishing system. The hNews requirement for a principles statement could pose a problem though or at least make rolling out hNews a more involved process then it would be otherwise. The issue is, I would now have to go to each product owner and ask then to provide this principles statement to link to. So my concern is now rather then just making a change to the publishing system to support hNews there is this requirement for some supporting content. And due to the nature of the content I can only assume our legal dep. would need to sign off as well, further complicating the adoption of hNews.<br />
** +1 I agree that the "principles" property (and probably all other others) should be optional. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** I think it's important to explain why principles is a requirement. hnews is essentially a specialization of hAtom. Its purpose is to distinguish news on the web. Hence the description of source organisation, license and principles. Of these, principles is the only one which consistently distinguishes news on the web from other content (eg. commercial, government). In the future it should be distinguished further by making the principles themselves machine readable (but that is for a later date). Most professional news organisations adhere to a Statement of Principles (e.g. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards and http://www.journalism.org/resources/ethics_codes). If a site wants to mark up its content but does not want to distinguish it as news, then wouldn't it be easiest to use hAtom? [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 9:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** Having discussed this issue at length outside this brainstorming, we understand some of the concerns of the microformat community regarding 'must', but are still convinced of the criticality of principles to hNews - therefore recommend downgrading from 'must' to 'should'. [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 14:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
**** Accepted and implemented in 0.1. In keeping with the general direction here, we've changed <code>item-license</code> as well, and would consider adopting the same with <code>source-org</code> as well, if it proves to present the same problems. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCalendar instead of dateline?</strong> Would an [[hCalendar]] event (which can contain an hCard location) make sense for a dateline, or is the 'date' part more often omitted?<br />
** Confusingly, the journalistic term "dateline" isn't anything to do with a date or time. It is the location from which a report is filed and is generally the main location associated with a story. Generally, a dateline consists of a city (e.g. "Rome") but could be the name of a ship at sea or even a space station. [[User:Stuart Myles|Stuart Myles]] 21:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCard instead of geo?</strong> Is geo really in use here, or would using an hCard (that can contain geo) be a better way of representing locations referred to in the story, as more human readable?<br />
** The reason for geo being highlighted (as an optional field) is to promote at least one location identifier in the story--preferably the most appropriate single location on a map for that particular story. Geo does not have to be related to dateline, but in some [http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews examples] we've worked on, we show the two collapsed into a single field. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** For locations referred to in the story, I agree--publishers should be using [[hCard]] with the contained geo to markup the locations themselves. One of the concepts I've struggled with is drawing an admittedly arbitrary line between the metadata ''about'' a story from the metadata ''within'' a story. For the former, we've focused on simplicity and minimalism, primarily as a means to encourage adoption. That has meant preferring [[rel-tag]] over in-line entity extraction and markup using compound microformats. For the latter, we feel that the field is open: use whatever microformat fits your purpose, however you can--the more, the better. This lets publishers with minimal technology capabilities at least get started by tweaking a few templates in their CMS, while those more technically inclined aren't limited by the simplicity of the format to a paucity of data. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Also, dateline can be text or [[hCard]], as noted in the [[news-brainstorming#Common_News_Fields|Common News Fields]] section. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">What is item-license?</strong> Using [[rel-license]] presumably?<br />
** We're working off the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] discussions for this. Our concern with [[rel-license]] was its definition as applying to an entire page, rather than an item within a page. The current discussions around licensing definitely address that. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** +1 using item-license for news-brainstorming makes sense. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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</div></div>Gut1975http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-issues&diff=42270hnews-issues2010-04-01T14:26:51Z<p>Gut1975: /* Open Issues */ Added follow-up comment with pointer to hAtom entry-summary to "Add lead class" issue</p>
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<div><h1> hNews issues </h1><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
These are externally raised issues about [[hnews|hNews]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the draft. <br />
<br />
'''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[hnews-faq|hNews FAQ]] before giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered.<br />
<br />
Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
<br />
Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
<br />
See related [[hatom-issues]] and [[hcard-issues]].<br />
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== Template ==<br />
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== Issues ==<br />
=== Open Issues ===<br />
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{{OpenIssue}} <br />
<span class="entry-summary author vcard"><br />
<span class="published">2010-03-29</span> <br />
raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Trondhuso|Trond Husø]]</span><br />
</span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Add lead class/tag</strong>. An article consists of a title, lead and the body content. I would very much like to see the lead attribute/tag being added. I see two possible usages: 1) In a world of AJAX you could show the content related to the lead-part + Click here for more. When you click the link the rest of the article becomes visible. Or it can be used in parts where you load to a title/lead carousel. 2) In RSS/Atom the Lead-part is what you would like to see in the description part of the feed.<br />
** Trond, I really like the idea. I suggest taking a look at using [http://microformats.org/wiki/hAtom#Entry_Summary hAtom entry-summary] for this purpose. I feel the lead paragraph of the typical upside-pyramid-style news story is an ideal value for the [http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format-spec.php#element.summary atom:summary] element. And, by re-using the hAtom conventions in this way, your news item will be semantically available to software focusing on both hAtom and hNews. The Associated Press interpreted Atom in this way, as illustrated by one of [http://hosted.ap.org/lineups/TOPHEADS-atom_0.3.xml?SITE=CAANG&SECTION=HOME AP's public Atom feeds]. [[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]] 14:25, 01 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
** Follow-up comment #2<br />
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<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-16</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Allowable number of item-licenses?</strong>. In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content. Modeling this relationship in the hNews world would result in two or more "item-license" elements, with each item-license element potentially linking to a separate license for each news company. Hence, I think the hNews format should explicitly allow more than one item-license for each "hnews hentry" container. Thoughts?<br />
** If as you say "In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content" then please provide URLs to real world examples that demonstrate as such. Absent any such examples, we must not change hNews for an otherwise assumed to be theoretical example, per microformats [[process]] and [[principles]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Some examples are:<blockquote><p>[http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/preview?gid=2006122911 Capitals-Devils Preview on Yahoo!] which was created under a joint arrangement between AP and STATS, Inc (scroll to page bottom).</p><p>[http://www.kcbd.com/global/story.asp?s=11520396 Colo. medical pot & taxes on KCBD 11 in Lubbock, TX] which was an AP story but since AP and some of its customers have special copyright arrangements, KCBD and its parent company also share copyright on the content (see bottom of page).</p></blockquote>As you can see, it's somewhat inefficient to have the license separate from the content in this way, and I think the hNews schema should permit multiple item-license elements for these situations. [[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]] 16:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-20</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">News, Commentary, and Opinion pieces as they relate to hNews</strong>. An interesting comment came up today when looking at how to use hNews on other AOL properties outside of our main news site, and that is, some of our sites are both news and commentary. Let's take our sports site for example http://www.fanhouse.com/ <br />
<br />
This site reports on sports news with article headlines such as: <br />
[http://www.fanhouse.com/news/nfl/big-ben-tops-pass-rankings/723353 Big Ben tops pass rankings]<br />
<br />
But fanhouse.com also has some obvious opinion pieces such as:<br />
[http://kevin-blackistone.fanhouse.com/2009/10/19/ail-to-the-redskins-worst-run-franchise-on-the-planet/ Fail to the Redskins: Worst-Run Franchise on the Planet]<br />
<br />
Currently we have one publishing system for all of our content within Fanhouse whether it be feed driven, in house publisher, news content, or commentary. So at the moment if one thing gets hNews it all does. <br />
<br />
Have you given this situation thought? My initial thinking is that perhaps this is where a principles statement specific to Fanhouse could account for the different types of content being labeled hNews. <br />
** Very glad you brought this up. We've given this alot of thought. I think your initial thinking is right. Right now the place to distinguish differences such as these (e.g. reporting from opinion) is within the principles statement. But this is something I think would benefit significantly from further development (i.e. the development of additional hNews criteria) [[User:Martinjemoore|Martin Moore]]<br />
** I believe that hNews is applicable to many types of news, ranging from reporting facts, to analysis pieces, opinion and columns. It is not unusual for a given piece of news to be a mix of two or three "types". Really, the purpose of hNews is allow for the common structural components of news to be more clearly marked up. The exact content is less important than the form. However, I also see that there is also value for a publisher of hNews to be able to self-classify the "type" of content. One way to do this would be to use rel-tag to indicate how the publisher would like to describe the hNews-encoded content (as commentary, opinion, analysis, interview, satire or whatever). [[User:Smyles|Stuart Myles]]<br />
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<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".<br />
** Seems like a useful extra to me, any objections ? [[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]<br />
** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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=== Resolved Issues ===<br />
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<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-15</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">XMDP defines 'principles' incorrectly.</strong> The XMDP for hNews defines 'principles' as a class, whereas the rest of the draft refers to it as a link type (i.e. 'rel' value).<br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: thanks for pointing that out. I believe the updated profile reflects that correctly now. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 15:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-13</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">The item-license element is incorrectly described as a class</strong>. The XMDP profile and element description for item-license in hNews describes the element as a class attribute value, however, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container Licensing Brainstorming] proposal describes this field as a link type. In addition, the hNews examples purport item-license as a link type. Which item-license description is correct? <br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: the correct description is as a link (rel). The profile has been updated to reflect that correctly. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
=== Closed Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-09</span> raised by <span class="fn">Miles De Feyter</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Implementation of item-license as it relates to hNews</strong>. Reading through the item-license brainstorm it seems to indicate that "item-license" would need to be nested within something with the class of "item". So as this relates to hNews is the suggestion to then have an articles containing div have the three class names of "hnews hentry item"?<br />
** At this point, Miles, that is correct (following the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] concept and guidance). I expect we'll see changes around item-license (it's still just brainstorming), but for the time being, the third class name "item" is needed. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Added to [[hnews-faq]] --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 02:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-28</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Principles as a requirement</strong>. Working for a publishing company that owns and operates a large number of different organizations I'd love to incorporate hNews within our publishing system. The hNews requirement for a principles statement could pose a problem though or at least make rolling out hNews a more involved process then it would be otherwise. The issue is, I would now have to go to each product owner and ask then to provide this principles statement to link to. So my concern is now rather then just making a change to the publishing system to support hNews there is this requirement for some supporting content. And due to the nature of the content I can only assume our legal dep. would need to sign off as well, further complicating the adoption of hNews.<br />
** +1 I agree that the "principles" property (and probably all other others) should be optional. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** I think it's important to explain why principles is a requirement. hnews is essentially a specialization of hAtom. Its purpose is to distinguish news on the web. Hence the description of source organisation, license and principles. Of these, principles is the only one which consistently distinguishes news on the web from other content (eg. commercial, government). In the future it should be distinguished further by making the principles themselves machine readable (but that is for a later date). Most professional news organisations adhere to a Statement of Principles (e.g. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards and http://www.journalism.org/resources/ethics_codes). If a site wants to mark up its content but does not want to distinguish it as news, then wouldn't it be easiest to use hAtom? [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 9:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** Having discussed this issue at length outside this brainstorming, we understand some of the concerns of the microformat community regarding 'must', but are still convinced of the criticality of principles to hNews - therefore recommend downgrading from 'must' to 'should'. [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 14:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
**** Accepted and implemented in 0.1. In keeping with the general direction here, we've changed <code>item-license</code> as well, and would consider adopting the same with <code>source-org</code> as well, if it proves to present the same problems. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCalendar instead of dateline?</strong> Would an [[hCalendar]] event (which can contain an hCard location) make sense for a dateline, or is the 'date' part more often omitted?<br />
** Confusingly, the journalistic term "dateline" isn't anything to do with a date or time. It is the location from which a report is filed and is generally the main location associated with a story. Generally, a dateline consists of a city (e.g. "Rome") but could be the name of a ship at sea or even a space station. [[User:Stuart Myles|Stuart Myles]] 21:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCard instead of geo?</strong> Is geo really in use here, or would using an hCard (that can contain geo) be a better way of representing locations referred to in the story, as more human readable?<br />
** The reason for geo being highlighted (as an optional field) is to promote at least one location identifier in the story--preferably the most appropriate single location on a map for that particular story. Geo does not have to be related to dateline, but in some [http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews examples] we've worked on, we show the two collapsed into a single field. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** For locations referred to in the story, I agree--publishers should be using [[hCard]] with the contained geo to markup the locations themselves. One of the concepts I've struggled with is drawing an admittedly arbitrary line between the metadata ''about'' a story from the metadata ''within'' a story. For the former, we've focused on simplicity and minimalism, primarily as a means to encourage adoption. That has meant preferring [[rel-tag]] over in-line entity extraction and markup using compound microformats. For the latter, we feel that the field is open: use whatever microformat fits your purpose, however you can--the more, the better. This lets publishers with minimal technology capabilities at least get started by tweaking a few templates in their CMS, while those more technically inclined aren't limited by the simplicity of the format to a paucity of data. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Also, dateline can be text or [[hCard]], as noted in the [[news-brainstorming#Common_News_Fields|Common News Fields]] section. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">What is item-license?</strong> Using [[rel-license]] presumably?<br />
** We're working off the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] discussions for this. Our concern with [[rel-license]] was its definition as applying to an entire page, rather than an item within a page. The current discussions around licensing definitely address that. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** +1 using item-license for news-brainstorming makes sense. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div></div>Gut1975http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-examples&diff=42068hnews-examples2010-02-26T18:10:33Z<p>Gut1975: /* Contributors */ added Guthrie Collin as a contributor to hNews examples</p>
<hr />
<div><h1>hNews Examples</h1><br />
{{TOC-right}}<br />
<br />
Examples of [[hnews]] - '''Work in progress!'''<br />
<br />
= Contributors =<br />
* [[User:JonathanMalek|Jonathan Malek]]<br />
* [[User:Gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]<br />
* [[User:Alejandro217|Alejandro Fernandez]]<br />
<br />
= Sample News Story = <br />
The following is a typically formatted news story:<br />
<br />
<div style="border: thin dashed black; padding: .5em 1em;"><br />
'''Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy'''<br />
<br />
by BEN FELLER, Associated Press - 19 April 2009 18:17 GMT <br />
<br />
PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad (AP) -- Defending his brand of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...<br />
<br />
Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's "State of the Union."<br />
<br />
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
Typically news organizations will have a significant amount of metadata behind this story, communicated in a variety of formats like [http://www.iptc.org/cms/site/ NewsML]. By the time they are presented to the reader, much of the metadata (amounting in some cases to hundreds of fields) has been stripped away. We can add a bit of that back in, and using hnews, create possibilities for some interesting semantic actions. Taking the above story, and formatting it as hnews:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
<div class="hnews hentry item"><br />
<h4><br />
<a class="url entry-title" href="http://example.org/article/us-latam-obama-democracy.html" rel="bookmark"><br />
Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy</a><br />
</h4><br />
<br />
<div><br />
<small> by <br />
<span class="author vcard"><a class="email fn" <br />
href="mailto:ben.feller@example.org">BEN FELLER</a></span>, <br />
<span class="source-org vcard"><a class="url org fn" <br />
href="http://www.ap.org">Associated Press</a></span>,<br />
<a href="http://www.ap.org/newsvalues/index.html" rel="principles"><img src="/wikidir/images/principles-button-blue.png" /></a> - <br />
<span class="updated dtstamp" <br />
title="2009-04-19T18:17:29Z">19 April 2009 18:17 GMT</span><br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="entry-content"><br />
<p><span class="dateline">PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad</span> (AP) -- Defending his brand <br />
of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
<p>Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's <br />
"State of the Union."</p><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div><br />
<small><br />
News Topics:<br />
<a href="http://example.org/Summits" rel="tag">Summits</a>, ...,<br />
<a href="http://example.org/Government+policy" rel="tag">Government policy</a><br />
<br/><br />
People, Places and Companies: <br />
<a href="http://example.org/Barack+Obama" rel="tag">Barack Obama</a>, ..., <br />
<a href="http://example.org/Hugo+Chavez" rel="tag">Hugo Chavez</a> <br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="geo"><br />
<small><br />
Lat: <span class="latitude">10.65715</span> <br />
Long: <span class="longitude">-61.483582</span><br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div id="first-sample-license"><br />
<small><br />
Copyright 2009 The <a rel="item-license" href="#first-sample-license">Associated Press</a>. <br />
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.<br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
We get a richly-formatted news story that enhances the reader's experience with news: <br />
<br />
<div style="border: thin dashed black; padding: .5em 1em;"><br />
<div class="hnews hentry item"><br />
<h4><br />
[http://example.org/article/us-latam-obama-democracy.html Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy]<br />
</h4><br />
<span><br />
<small> by [mailto:ben.feller@example.org BEN FELLER], <br />
[http://www.ap.org Associated Press]<br />
[http://www.ap.org/newsvalues/index.html principles] - <br />
<span class="updated dtstamp" <br />
title="2009-04-19T18:17:29Z">19 April 2009 18:17 GMT</span><br />
</small><br />
</span><br />
<br />
<span class="entry-content"><br />
<p><span class="dateline">PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad</span> (AP) -- Defending his brand <br />
of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
<p>Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's <br />
"State of the Union."</p><br />
</span><br />
<br />
<span><br />
<small><br />
News Topics:<br />
[http://example.org/Summits Summits], ...,<br />
[http://example.org/Government+policy Government policy]<br />
<br/><br />
People, Places and Companies: <br />
[http://example.org/Barack+Obama Barack Obama], ..., <br />
[http://example.org/Hugo+Chavez Hugo Chavez] <br />
</small><br />
</span><br />
<br/><br />
<span class="geo"><br />
<small><br />
Lat: <span class="latitude">10.65715</span> <br />
Long: <span class="longitude">-61.483582</span><br />
</small><br />
</span><br />
<br/><br />
<span><br />
<small><br />
Copyright 2009 The [http://www.ap.org Associated Press]. <br />
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.<br />
</small><br />
</span><br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
== Geo Alternative ==<br />
There are a number of options with how this information is formatted. For instance, rather than adding in a separate [[geo]] line, we could chose to do something proposed as an improvement on [[geo-brainstorming#Geo_improvements|geo-brainstorming]]: <br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
<p><abbr title="10.65715,-61.483582" class="dateline geo">PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad</abbr> (AP) -- Defending his brand <br />
of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
Which renders as:<br />
<div style="border: thin dashed black; padding: .5em 1em;"><br />
<abbr title="10.65715,-61.483582" class="dateline geo">PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad</abbr> (AP) -- Defending his brand of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...<br />
</div><br />
<br />
Naturally, a valid option (as discussed [[assistive-technology-abbr-results#Markup_Possibilities|here]]) is to use the <code>&lt;span></code> element instead.<br />
<br />
= Sample News Story with essential hNews format = <br />
<br />
Taking the above story, and formatting it as hnews applying only '''required''' fields:<br />
<br />
#hNews hentry<br />
#entry title<br />
#author<br />
#source-org<br />
#updated<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
<div class="hnews hentry item"><br />
<h4><br />
<span class="entry-title"><br />
Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy<br />
</span><br />
</h4><br />
<div><br />
<small> by <br />
<span class="author vcard"><span class="fn" >BEN FELLER</span></span>, <br />
<span class="source-org vcard"><span class="org fn">Associated Press</span></span> - <br />
<span class="updated" title="2009-04-19T18:17:29Z">19 April 2009 18:17 GMT</span><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<p>PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad (AP) -- Defending his brand of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
<p>Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's "State of the Union."</p><br />
</div><br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
We get an '''hNews''' formatted news story that gives the same reader's experience but at the same time adds simple markup.<br />
<br />
<div style="border: thin dashed black; padding: .5em 1em;"><br />
<div class="hnews hentry item"><br />
<h4><br />
<span class="entry-title"><br />
Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy<br />
</span><br />
</h4><br />
<div> <small> by <span class="author vcard"><span class="fn">BEN FELLER</span></span>,<span class="source-org vcard"><span class="org fn">Associated Press</span></span> - <span class="updated" title="2009-04-19T18:17:29Z">19 April 2009 18:17 GMT</span></small><br />
</div><br />
<p>PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad (AP) -- Defending his brand of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
<p>Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's "State of the Union."</p><br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
= Sample News Story with Media (Photo) = <br />
<br />
Another example is combining this same story with a related photo by folding an [[hmedia]] item into the [[hnews]] entry:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
<div class="hnews hentry item"><br />
<div class="hmedia"><br />
<img class="photo" width="256" height="342" border="0" alt="President Barack Obama speaks on the South Lawn of the White House in Washington, Wednesday, Aug. 5, 2009, about the release of Laura Ling and Euna Lee, the two freed American journalists who were arrested in March after allegedly crossing into North Korea from China. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)" src="http://example.org/Obama_Mana.jpg"/><br />
<span class="fn">President Barack Obama</span><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<h4><br />
<a class="url entry-title" href="http://example.org/article/us-latam-obama-democracy.html" rel="bookmark"><br />
Renewing US ties with Latin America, Obama says he wants to lead, not lecture, on democracy</a><br />
</h4><br />
<br />
<div><br />
<small> by <br />
<span class="author vcard"><a class="email fn" <br />
href="mailto:ben.feller@example.org">BEN FELLER</a></span>, <br />
<span class="source-org vcard"><a class="url org fn" <br />
href="http://www.ap.org">Associated Press</a></span>,<br />
<a href="http://www.ap.org/newsvalues/index.html" rel="principles"><img src="/wikidir/images/principles-button-blue.png</a> - <br />
<span class="updated dtstamp" <br />
title="2009-04-19T18:17:29Z">19 April 2009 18:17 GMT</span><br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="entry-content"><br />
<p><span class="dateline">PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad</span> (AP) -- Defending his brand <br />
of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday...</p><br />
<p>Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Ensign was interviewed on CNN's <br />
"State of the Union."</p><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div><br />
<small><br />
News Topics:<br />
<a href="http://example.org/Summits" rel="tag">Summits</a>, ...,<br />
<a href="http://example.org/Government+policy" rel="tag">Government policy</a><br />
<br/><br />
People, Places and Companies: <br />
<a href="http://example.org/Barack+Obama" rel="tag">Barack Obama</a>, ..., <br />
<a href="http://example.org/Hugo+Chavez" rel="tag">Hugo Chavez</a> <br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="geo"><br />
<small><br />
Lat: <span class="latitude">10.65715</span> <br />
Long: <span class="longitude">-61.483582</span><br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div><br />
<small><br />
Copyright 2009 The <a rel="item-license" href="http://www.ap.org">Associated Press</a>. <br />
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.<br />
</small><br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
</nowiki></pre></div>Gut1975http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-issues&diff=41406hnews-issues2009-11-17T16:25:11Z<p>Gut1975: /* Open Issues */ added examples to multiple item-license issue</p>
<hr />
<div><h1> hNews issues </h1><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
These are externally raised issues about [[hnews|hNews]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the draft. <br />
<br />
'''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[hnews-faq|hNews FAQ]] before giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered.<br />
<br />
Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
<br />
Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
<br />
See related [[hatom-issues]] and [[hcard-issues]].<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
{{issues-format}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Issues ==<br />
=== Open Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-16</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Allowable number of item-licenses?</strong>. In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content. Modeling this relationship in the hNews world would result in two or more "item-license" elements, with each item-license element potentially linking to a separate license for each news company. Hence, I think the hNews format should explicitly allow more than one item-license for each "hnews hentry" container. Thoughts?<br />
** If as you say "In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content" then please provide URLs to real world examples that demonstrate as such. Absent any such examples, we must not change hNews for an otherwise assumed to be theoretical example, per microformats [[process]] and [[principles]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 23:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Some examples are:<blockquote><p>[http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/preview?gid=2006122911 Capitals-Devils Preview on Yahoo!] which was created under a joint arrangement between AP and STATS, Inc (scroll to page bottom).</p><p>[http://www.kcbd.com/global/story.asp?s=11520396 Colo. medical pot & taxes on KCBD 11 in Lubbock, TX] which was an AP story but since AP and some of its customers have special copyright arrangements, KCBD and its parent company also share copyright on the content (see bottom of page).</p></blockquote>As you can see, it's somewhat inefficient to have the license separate from the content in this way, and I think the hNews schema should permit multiple item-license elements for these situations. [[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]] 16:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-20</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">News, Commentary, and Opinion pieces as they relate to hNews</strong>. An interesting comment came up today when looking at how to use hNews on other AOL properties outside of our main news site, and that is, some of our sites are both news and commentary. Let's take our sports site for example http://www.fanhouse.com/ <br />
<br />
This site reports on sports news with article headlines such as: <br />
[http://www.fanhouse.com/news/nfl/big-ben-tops-pass-rankings/723353 Big Ben tops pass rankings]<br />
<br />
But fanhouse.com also has some obvious opinion pieces such as:<br />
[http://kevin-blackistone.fanhouse.com/2009/10/19/ail-to-the-redskins-worst-run-franchise-on-the-planet/ Fail to the Redskins: Worst-Run Franchise on the Planet]<br />
<br />
Currently we have one publishing system for all of our content within Fanhouse whether it be feed driven, in house publisher, news content, or commentary. So at the moment if one thing gets hNews it all does. <br />
<br />
Have you given this situation thought? My initial thinking is that perhaps this is where a principles statement specific to Fanhouse could account for the different types of content being labeled hNews. <br />
** Very glad you brought this up. We've given this alot of thought. I think your initial thinking is right. Right now the place to distinguish differences such as these (e.g. reporting from opinion) is within the principles statement. But this is something I think would benefit significantly from further development (i.e. the development of additional hNews criteria) [[User:Martinjemoore|Martin Moore]]<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".<br />
** Seems like a useful extra to me, any objections ? [[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]<br />
** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
=== Resolved Issues ===<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-15</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">XMDP defines 'principles' incorrectly.</strong> The XMDP for hNews defines 'principles' as a class, whereas the rest of the draft refers to it as a link type (i.e. 'rel' value).<br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: thanks for pointing that out. I believe the updated profile reflects that correctly now. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 15:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-13</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">The item-license element is incorrectly described as a class</strong>. The XMDP profile and element description for item-license in hNews describes the element as a class attribute value, however, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container Licensing Brainstorming] proposal describes this field as a link type. In addition, the hNews examples purport item-license as a link type. Which item-license description is correct? <br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: the correct description is as a link (rel). The profile has been updated to reflect that correctly. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
=== Closed Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-09</span> raised by <span class="fn">Miles De Feyter</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Implementation of item-license as it relates to hNews</strong>. Reading through the item-license brainstorm it seems to indicate that "item-license" would need to be nested within something with the class of "item". So as this relates to hNews is the suggestion to then have an articles containing div have the three class names of "hnews hentry item"?<br />
** At this point, Miles, that is correct (following the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] concept and guidance). I expect we'll see changes around item-license (it's still just brainstorming), but for the time being, the third class name "item" is needed. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Added to [[hnews-faq]] --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 02:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-28</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Principles as a requirement</strong>. Working for a publishing company that owns and operates a large number of different organizations I'd love to incorporate hNews within our publishing system. The hNews requirement for a principles statement could pose a problem though or at least make rolling out hNews a more involved process then it would be otherwise. The issue is, I would now have to go to each product owner and ask then to provide this principles statement to link to. So my concern is now rather then just making a change to the publishing system to support hNews there is this requirement for some supporting content. And due to the nature of the content I can only assume our legal dep. would need to sign off as well, further complicating the adoption of hNews.<br />
** +1 I agree that the "principles" property (and probably all other others) should be optional. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** I think it's important to explain why principles is a requirement. hnews is essentially a specialization of hAtom. Its purpose is to distinguish news on the web. Hence the description of source organisation, license and principles. Of these, principles is the only one which consistently distinguishes news on the web from other content (eg. commercial, government). In the future it should be distinguished further by making the principles themselves machine readable (but that is for a later date). Most professional news organisations adhere to a Statement of Principles (e.g. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards and http://www.journalism.org/resources/ethics_codes). If a site wants to mark up its content but does not want to distinguish it as news, then wouldn't it be easiest to use hAtom? [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 9:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** Having discussed this issue at length outside this brainstorming, we understand some of the concerns of the microformat community regarding 'must', but are still convinced of the criticality of principles to hNews - therefore recommend downgrading from 'must' to 'should'. [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 14:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
**** Accepted and implemented in 0.1. In keeping with the general direction here, we've changed <code>item-license</code> as well, and would consider adopting the same with <code>source-org</code> as well, if it proves to present the same problems. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCalendar instead of dateline?</strong> Would an [[hCalendar]] event (which can contain an hCard location) make sense for a dateline, or is the 'date' part more often omitted?<br />
** Confusingly, the journalistic term "dateline" isn't anything to do with a date or time. It is the location from which a report is filed and is generally the main location associated with a story. Generally, a dateline consists of a city (e.g. "Rome") but could be the name of a ship at sea or even a space station. [[User:Stuart Myles|Stuart Myles]] 21:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCard instead of geo?</strong> Is geo really in use here, or would using an hCard (that can contain geo) be a better way of representing locations referred to in the story, as more human readable?<br />
** The reason for geo being highlighted (as an optional field) is to promote at least one location identifier in the story--preferably the most appropriate single location on a map for that particular story. Geo does not have to be related to dateline, but in some [http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews examples] we've worked on, we show the two collapsed into a single field. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** For locations referred to in the story, I agree--publishers should be using [[hCard]] with the contained geo to markup the locations themselves. One of the concepts I've struggled with is drawing an admittedly arbitrary line between the metadata ''about'' a story from the metadata ''within'' a story. For the former, we've focused on simplicity and minimalism, primarily as a means to encourage adoption. That has meant preferring [[rel-tag]] over in-line entity extraction and markup using compound microformats. For the latter, we feel that the field is open: use whatever microformat fits your purpose, however you can--the more, the better. This lets publishers with minimal technology capabilities at least get started by tweaking a few templates in their CMS, while those more technically inclined aren't limited by the simplicity of the format to a paucity of data. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Also, dateline can be text or [[hCard]], as noted in the [[news-brainstorming#Common_News_Fields|Common News Fields]] section. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">What is item-license?</strong> Using [[rel-license]] presumably?<br />
** We're working off the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] discussions for this. Our concern with [[rel-license]] was its definition as applying to an entire page, rather than an item within a page. The current discussions around licensing definitely address that. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** +1 using item-license for news-brainstorming makes sense. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div></div>Gut1975http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-issues&diff=41384hnews-issues2009-11-16T19:44:41Z<p>Gut1975: /* Open Issues */ added new issue on multiple item-licenses</p>
<hr />
<div><h1> hNews issues </h1><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
These are externally raised issues about [[hnews|hNews]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the draft. <br />
<br />
'''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[hnews-faq|hNews FAQ]] before giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered.<br />
<br />
Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
<br />
Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
<br />
See related [[hatom-issues]] and [[hcard-issues]].<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
{{issues-format}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Issues ==<br />
=== Open Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-16</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Allowable number of item-licenses?</strong>. In the news world, different news companies sometimes share the copyright on specific works, and this arrangement results in two copyright statements appearing for one piece of content. Modeling this relationship in the hNews world would result in two or more "item-license" elements, with each item-license element potentially linking to a separate license for each news company. Hence, I think the hNews format should explicitly allow more than one item-license for each "hnews hentry" container. Thoughts?<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-20</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">News, Commentary, and Opinion pieces as they relate to hNews</strong>. An interesting comment came up today when looking at how to use hNews on other AOL properties outside of our main news site, and that is, some of our sites are both news and commentary. Let's take our sports site for example http://www.fanhouse.com/ <br />
<br />
This site reports on sports news with article headlines such as: <br />
[http://www.fanhouse.com/news/nfl/big-ben-tops-pass-rankings/723353 Big Ben tops pass rankings]<br />
<br />
But fanhouse.com also has some obvious opinion pieces such as:<br />
[http://kevin-blackistone.fanhouse.com/2009/10/19/ail-to-the-redskins-worst-run-franchise-on-the-planet/ Fail to the Redskins: Worst-Run Franchise on the Planet]<br />
<br />
Currently we have one publishing system for all of our content within Fanhouse whether it be feed driven, in house publisher, news content, or commentary. So at the moment if one thing gets hNews it all does. <br />
<br />
Have you given this situation thought? My initial thinking is that perhaps this is where a principles statement specific to Fanhouse could account for the different types of content being labeled hNews. <br />
** Very glad you brought this up. We've given this alot of thought. I think your initial thinking is right. Right now the place to distinguish differences such as these (e.g. reporting from opinion) is within the principles statement. But this is something I think would benefit significantly from further development (i.e. the development of additional hNews criteria) [[User:Martinjemoore|Martin Moore]]<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".<br />
** Seems like a useful extra to me, any objections ? [[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]<br />
** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
=== Resolved Issues ===<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-15</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">XMDP defines 'principles' incorrectly.</strong> The XMDP for hNews defines 'principles' as a class, whereas the rest of the draft refers to it as a link type (i.e. 'rel' value).<br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: thanks for pointing that out. I believe the updated profile reflects that correctly now. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 15:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-13</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">The item-license element is incorrectly described as a class</strong>. The XMDP profile and element description for item-license in hNews describes the element as a class attribute value, however, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container Licensing Brainstorming] proposal describes this field as a link type. In addition, the hNews examples purport item-license as a link type. Which item-license description is correct? <br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: the correct description is as a link (rel). The profile has been updated to reflect that correctly. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
=== Closed Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-09</span> raised by <span class="fn">Miles De Feyter</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Implementation of item-license as it relates to hNews</strong>. Reading through the item-license brainstorm it seems to indicate that "item-license" would need to be nested within something with the class of "item". So as this relates to hNews is the suggestion to then have an articles containing div have the three class names of "hnews hentry item"?<br />
** At this point, Miles, that is correct (following the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] concept and guidance). I expect we'll see changes around item-license (it's still just brainstorming), but for the time being, the third class name "item" is needed. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Added to [[hnews-faq]] --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 02:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-28</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">Principles as a requirement</strong>. Working for a publishing company that owns and operates a large number of different organizations I'd love to incorporate hNews within our publishing system. The hNews requirement for a principles statement could pose a problem though or at least make rolling out hNews a more involved process then it would be otherwise. The issue is, I would now have to go to each product owner and ask then to provide this principles statement to link to. So my concern is now rather then just making a change to the publishing system to support hNews there is this requirement for some supporting content. And due to the nature of the content I can only assume our legal dep. would need to sign off as well, further complicating the adoption of hNews.<br />
** +1 I agree that the "principles" property (and probably all other others) should be optional. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** I think it's important to explain why principles is a requirement. hnews is essentially a specialization of hAtom. Its purpose is to distinguish news on the web. Hence the description of source organisation, license and principles. Of these, principles is the only one which consistently distinguishes news on the web from other content (eg. commercial, government). In the future it should be distinguished further by making the principles themselves machine readable (but that is for a later date). Most professional news organisations adhere to a Statement of Principles (e.g. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards and http://www.journalism.org/resources/ethics_codes). If a site wants to mark up its content but does not want to distinguish it as news, then wouldn't it be easiest to use hAtom? [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 9:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** Having discussed this issue at length outside this brainstorming, we understand some of the concerns of the microformat community regarding 'must', but are still convinced of the criticality of principles to hNews - therefore recommend downgrading from 'must' to 'should'. [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 14:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
**** Accepted and implemented in 0.1. In keeping with the general direction here, we've changed <code>item-license</code> as well, and would consider adopting the same with <code>source-org</code> as well, if it proves to present the same problems. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCalendar instead of dateline?</strong> Would an [[hCalendar]] event (which can contain an hCard location) make sense for a dateline, or is the 'date' part more often omitted?<br />
** Confusingly, the journalistic term "dateline" isn't anything to do with a date or time. It is the location from which a report is filed and is generally the main location associated with a story. Generally, a dateline consists of a city (e.g. "Rome") but could be the name of a ship at sea or even a space station. [[User:Stuart Myles|Stuart Myles]] 21:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">hCard instead of geo?</strong> Is geo really in use here, or would using an hCard (that can contain geo) be a better way of representing locations referred to in the story, as more human readable?<br />
** The reason for geo being highlighted (as an optional field) is to promote at least one location identifier in the story--preferably the most appropriate single location on a map for that particular story. Geo does not have to be related to dateline, but in some [http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews examples] we've worked on, we show the two collapsed into a single field. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** For locations referred to in the story, I agree--publishers should be using [[hCard]] with the contained geo to markup the locations themselves. One of the concepts I've struggled with is drawing an admittedly arbitrary line between the metadata ''about'' a story from the metadata ''within'' a story. For the former, we've focused on simplicity and minimalism, primarily as a means to encourage adoption. That has meant preferring [[rel-tag]] over in-line entity extraction and markup using compound microformats. For the latter, we feel that the field is open: use whatever microformat fits your purpose, however you can--the more, the better. This lets publishers with minimal technology capabilities at least get started by tweaking a few templates in their CMS, while those more technically inclined aren't limited by the simplicity of the format to a paucity of data. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Also, dateline can be text or [[hCard]], as noted in the [[news-brainstorming#Common_News_Fields|Common News Fields]] section. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">What is item-license?</strong> Using [[rel-license]] presumably?<br />
** We're working off the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] discussions for this. Our concern with [[rel-license]] was its definition as applying to an entire page, rather than an item within a page. The current discussions around licensing definitely address that. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** +1 using item-license for news-brainstorming makes sense. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
</div></div>Gut1975http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hnews-issues&diff=41369hnews-issues2009-11-13T14:25:11Z<p>Gut1975: Added new issue about conflicting description for item-license</p>
<hr />
<div><h1> hNews issues </h1><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
These are externally raised issues about [[hnews|hNews]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the draft. <br />
<br />
'''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[hnews-faq|hNews FAQ]] before giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered.<br />
<br />
Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
<br />
Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
<br />
See related [[hatom-issues]] and [[hcard-issues]].<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
{{issues-format}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Issues ==<br />
=== Open Issues ===<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-11-13</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:gut1975|Guthrie Collin]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">The item-license element is incorrectly described as a class</strong>. The XMDP profile and element description for item-license in hNews describes the element as a class attribute value, however, the [http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container Licensing Brainstorming] proposal describes this field as a link type. In addition, the hNews examples purport item-license as a link type. Which item-license description is correct? <br />
** Follow-up comment #1<br />
** Follow-up comment #2<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="hentry"><br />
{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-20</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
<div class="entry-content discussion issues"><br />
* <strong class="entry-title">News, Commentary, and Opinion pieces as they relate to hNews</strong>. An interesting comment came up today when looking at how to use hNews on other AOL properties outside of our main news site, and that is, some of our sites are both news and commentary. Let's take our sports site for example http://www.fanhouse.com/ <br />
<br />
This site reports on sports news with article headlines such as: <br />
[http://www.fanhouse.com/news/nfl/big-ben-tops-pass-rankings/723353 Big Ben tops pass rankings]<br />
<br />
But fanhouse.com also has some obvious opinion pieces such as:<br />
[http://kevin-blackistone.fanhouse.com/2009/10/19/ail-to-the-redskins-worst-run-franchise-on-the-planet/ Fail to the Redskins: Worst-Run Franchise on the Planet]<br />
<br />
Currently we have one publishing system for all of our content within Fanhouse whether it be feed driven, in house publisher, news content, or commentary. So at the moment if one thing gets hNews it all does. <br />
<br />
Have you given this situation thought? My initial thinking is that perhaps this is where a principles statement specific to Fanhouse could account for the different types of content being labeled hNews. <br />
** Very glad you brought this up. We've given this alot of thought. I think your initial thinking is right. Right now the place to distinguish differences such as these (e.g. reporting from opinion) is within the principles statement. But this is something I think would benefit significantly from further development (i.e. the development of additional hNews criteria) [[User:Martinjemoore|Martin Moore]]<br />
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{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".<br />
** Seems like a useful extra to me, any objections ? [[User:MarkNg|MarkNg]]<br />
** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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=== Resolved Issues ===<br />
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{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-15</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">XMDP defines 'principles' incorrectly.</strong> The XMDP for hNews defines 'principles' as a class, whereas the rest of the draft refers to it as a link type (i.e. 'rel' value).<br />
** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. FIXED: thanks for pointing that out. I believe the updated profile reflects that correctly now. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 15:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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=== Closed Issues ===<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-09</span> raised by <span class="fn">Miles De Feyter</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">Implementation of item-license as it relates to hNews</strong>. Reading through the item-license brainstorm it seems to indicate that "item-license" would need to be nested within something with the class of "item". So as this relates to hNews is the suggestion to then have an articles containing div have the three class names of "hnews hentry item"?<br />
** At this point, Miles, that is correct (following the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] concept and guidance). I expect we'll see changes around item-license (it's still just brainstorming), but for the time being, the third class name "item" is needed. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Added to [[hnews-faq]] --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 02:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-09-28</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MilesD|Miles De Feyter]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">Principles as a requirement</strong>. Working for a publishing company that owns and operates a large number of different organizations I'd love to incorporate hNews within our publishing system. The hNews requirement for a principles statement could pose a problem though or at least make rolling out hNews a more involved process then it would be otherwise. The issue is, I would now have to go to each product owner and ask then to provide this principles statement to link to. So my concern is now rather then just making a change to the publishing system to support hNews there is this requirement for some supporting content. And due to the nature of the content I can only assume our legal dep. would need to sign off as well, further complicating the adoption of hNews.<br />
** +1 I agree that the "principles" property (and probably all other others) should be optional. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** I think it's important to explain why principles is a requirement. hnews is essentially a specialization of hAtom. Its purpose is to distinguish news on the web. Hence the description of source organisation, license and principles. Of these, principles is the only one which consistently distinguishes news on the web from other content (eg. commercial, government). In the future it should be distinguished further by making the principles themselves machine readable (but that is for a later date). Most professional news organisations adhere to a Statement of Principles (e.g. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards and http://www.journalism.org/resources/ethics_codes). If a site wants to mark up its content but does not want to distinguish it as news, then wouldn't it be easiest to use hAtom? [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 9:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** Having discussed this issue at length outside this brainstorming, we understand some of the concerns of the microformat community regarding 'must', but are still convinced of the criticality of principles to hNews - therefore recommend downgrading from 'must' to 'should'. [[User:martinjemoore|Martin Moore]] 14:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
**** Accepted and implemented in 0.1. In keeping with the general direction here, we've changed <code>item-license</code> as well, and would consider adopting the same with <code>source-org</code> as well, if it proves to present the same problems. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">hCalendar instead of dateline?</strong> Would an [[hCalendar]] event (which can contain an hCard location) make sense for a dateline, or is the 'date' part more often omitted?<br />
** Confusingly, the journalistic term "dateline" isn't anything to do with a date or time. It is the location from which a report is filed and is generally the main location associated with a story. Generally, a dateline consists of a city (e.g. "Rome") but could be the name of a ship at sea or even a space station. [[User:Stuart Myles|Stuart Myles]] 21:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">hCard instead of geo?</strong> Is geo really in use here, or would using an hCard (that can contain geo) be a better way of representing locations referred to in the story, as more human readable?<br />
** The reason for geo being highlighted (as an optional field) is to promote at least one location identifier in the story--preferably the most appropriate single location on a map for that particular story. Geo does not have to be related to dateline, but in some [http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews examples] we've worked on, we show the two collapsed into a single field. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** For locations referred to in the story, I agree--publishers should be using [[hCard]] with the contained geo to markup the locations themselves. One of the concepts I've struggled with is drawing an admittedly arbitrary line between the metadata ''about'' a story from the metadata ''within'' a story. For the former, we've focused on simplicity and minimalism, primarily as a means to encourage adoption. That has meant preferring [[rel-tag]] over in-line entity extraction and markup using compound microformats. For the latter, we feel that the field is open: use whatever microformat fits your purpose, however you can--the more, the better. This lets publishers with minimal technology capabilities at least get started by tweaking a few templates in their CMS, while those more technically inclined aren't limited by the simplicity of the format to a paucity of data. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 23:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
** Also, dateline can be text or [[hCard]], as noted in the [[news-brainstorming#Common_News_Fields|Common News Fields]] section. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 18:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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{{ClosedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">18:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]</span></span><br />
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* <strong class="entry-title">What is item-license?</strong> Using [[rel-license]] presumably?<br />
** We're working off the [[licensing-brainstorming#item_as_container|licensing-brainstorming]] discussions for this. Our concern with [[rel-license]] was its definition as applying to an entire page, rather than an item within a page. The current discussions around licensing definitely address that. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*** +1 using item-license for news-brainstorming makes sense. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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</div></div>Gut1975