plain-xml - Revision history

Tantek: see also

2025-06-18T20:16:45Z

Irisp at 13:30, 11 October 2017

2017-10-11T13:30:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:30, 11 October 2017
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	== Tools==		== Tools==
	~~== tools ==~~
	* https://codebeautify.org/xmlviewer - Tool to edit, format, and validate XML.		* https://codebeautify.org/xmlviewer - Tool to edit, format, and validate XML.
	* https://jsonformatter.org/xml-formatter - XML Formatter - to format xml data.		* https://jsonformatter.org/xml-formatter - XML Formatter - to format xml data.

Irisp: added tools

2017-10-11T13:29:36Z

added tools

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:29, 11 October 2017
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	== Reference ==		== Reference ==
	W3C XML home page: <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>		W3C XML home page: <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>

			== Tools==
			== tools ==
			* https://codebeautify.org/xmlviewer - Tool to edit, format, and validate XML.
			* https://jsonformatter.org/xml-formatter - XML Formatter - to format xml data.

	== Criticism ==		== Criticism ==

Tantek: add Mark Pilgrim's article XML on the Web Has Failed from 2004!

2009-04-02T15:55:49Z

add Mark Pilgrim's article XML on the Web Has Failed from 2004!

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:55, 2 April 2009
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	* [[plain-old-xml-considered-harmful]] - feel free to add to this specific page from the below resources.		* [[plain-old-xml-considered-harmful]] - feel free to add to this specific page from the below resources.
	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* 2003-09-09 [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* 2004-07-21 [http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/07/21/dive.html XML on the Web Has Failed] by Mark Pilgrim
	* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Don’t Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray		* 2005 [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* 2006-01-08 [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Don’t Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray
	* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>		* 2006-01-31 [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
			* 2006-11-23 [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>

	== Doomed ==		== Doomed ==

Brian: reverting spam

2008-12-20T21:01:49Z

reverting spam

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:01, 20 December 2008
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	~~ortarac~~
	~~ororrac~~
	= Plain XML =		= Plain XML =

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	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]
	* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages ~~DonÃ¢ÂÂt~~ Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray		* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Don’t Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
	* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>		* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>
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	* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford		* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford
	* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally ~~Ã¢ÂÂSGML~~ on the ~~WebÃ¢ÂÂ~~</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I ~~canÃ¢ÂÂt~~ say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of ~~SGMLÃ¢ÂÂs~~ role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ~~Ã¢ÂÂweb servicesÃ¢ÂÂ~~. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original ~~Ã¢ÂÂSGML~~ for the ~~WebÃ¢ÂÂ~~ vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and ~~programmersÃ¢ÂÂ~~ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>		* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally “SGML on the Web”</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I can’t say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGML’s role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ‘web services’. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original “SGML for the Web” vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmers’ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>
	* ...		* ...

NoaclIcola: vilivit

2008-12-20T05:41:44Z

vilivit

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:41, 20 December 2008
Line 1:		Line 1:
			ortarac
	ororrac		ororrac
	= Plain XML =		= Plain XML =
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	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]
	* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages ~~Donât~~ Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray		* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages DonÃ¢ÂÂt Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
	* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>		* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>
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	* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford		* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford
	* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally ~~âSGML~~ on the ~~Webâ~~</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I ~~canât~~ say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of ~~SGMLâs~~ role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ~~âweb servicesâ~~. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original ~~âSGML~~ for the ~~Webâ~~ vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and ~~programmersâ~~ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>		* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally Ã¢ÂÂSGML on the WebÃ¢ÂÂ</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I canÃ¢ÂÂt say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGMLÃ¢ÂÂs role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called Ã¢ÂÂweb servicesÃ¢ÂÂ. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original Ã¢ÂÂSGML for the WebÃ¢ÂÂ vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmersÃ¢ÂÂ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>
	* ...		* ...

CnaroLoual: acoutaolodel

2008-12-19T09:45:24Z

acoutaolodel

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:45, 19 December 2008
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			ororrac
	= Plain XML =		= Plain XML =

Line 10:		Line 11:
	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]
	* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages ~~Don’t~~ Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray		* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Donât Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
	* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>		* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>
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	* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford		* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford
	* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally ~~“SGML~~ on the ~~Web”~~</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I ~~can’t~~ say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of ~~SGML’s~~ role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ~~‘web services’~~. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original ~~“SGML~~ for the ~~Web”~~ vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and ~~programmers’~~ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>		* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally âSGML on the Webâ</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I canât say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGMLâs role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called âweb servicesâ. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original âSGML for the Webâ vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmersâ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>
	* ...		* ...

Tantek: linked to plain-old-xml-considered-harmful

2007-05-18T15:47:33Z

linked to plain-old-xml-considered-harmful

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:47, 18 May 2007
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	A collection of critical thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML, why it can be considered harmful etc.		A collection of critical thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML, why it can be considered harmful etc.

			* [[plain-old-xml-considered-harmful]] - feel free to add to this specific page from the below resources.
	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]

Tantek: added Doomed section and recent articles

2007-02-01T00:46:57Z

added Doomed section and recent articles

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:46, 1 February 2007
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	= Plain XML =		= Plain XML =

			== Reference ==
	W3C XML home page: <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>		W3C XML home page: <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>

			== Criticism ==
	A collection of critical thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML, why it can be considered harmful etc.		A collection of critical thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML, why it can be considered harmful etc.

Line 10:		Line 12:
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
	* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>		* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>

			== Doomed ==

			Back when I saw Douglas Crockford speak on [http://www.json.org/ JSON] at the [http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/ Silicon Valley Code Camp] on 2006-10-07, I realized that with HTML+microformats for document content (user authored data), and JSON for API data (machine generated data), where did that leave XML? Nowhere it seems. I asked Douglas Crockford after his session, and have been mentioning it informally to a few people since, partially to get critical feedback on my reasoning, and partially to pass on a general questioning of the XML religion. It seems that this meme has been propagating quite well. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 16:46, 31 Jan 2007 (PST)

			* [http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=602 XML on the Web is Dead] by Douglas Crockford
			* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally “SGML on the Web”</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I can’t say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGML’s role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ‘web services’. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original “SGML for the Web” vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmers’ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>
			* ...

Tantek: added Jeremy Keith's mini-critique of XML

2007-01-24T09:46:42Z

added Jeremy Keith's mini-critique of XML

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:46, 24 January 2007
Line 1:		Line 1:
	= Plain XML =		= Plain XML =

	A collection of thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML.		W3C XML home page: <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>

			A collection of critical thoughts on "plain" or "generic" XML, why it can be considered harmful etc.

	* <abbr title="eXtensible Markup Language">[http://www.w3.org/XML/ W3C XML]</abbr>
	* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson		* [http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1064828134&count=1 Never send content in proprietary (XML) formats over the wire] by Ian Hickson
	* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]		* [http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2005_10.html#003410 David Janes on the failure of plain XML approaches]
	* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Don’t Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray		* [http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages Don’t Invent XML Languages] by Tim Bray
	* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum		* [http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=146647 Which Part of "No XML" Don't You Understand?] by Guido van Rossum
			* [http://adactio.com/journal/1212/ More thoughts on portable social networks] by Jeremy Keith. In particular: <blockquote style="margin:0;padding:0"><ol><li>Publishing XML is hard, certainly harder than publishing HTML.</li><li>Out of sight is out of mind.</li></ol></blockquote>

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:16, 18 June 2025
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	* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally “SGML on the Web”</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I can’t say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGML’s role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ‘web services’. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original “SGML for the Web” vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmers’ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>		* [http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/12/xml_and_the_next_web_and_the_p_1.html XML and the Next Web (and the Previous...)] by Simon St. Laurent: <blockquote><p><strong>XML was originally “SGML on the Web”</strong>, planned as a drastic change. Instead of tag soup HTML and just-implemented CSS, XML would provide a solid base format for information, XLink would offer much improved hypertext capabilities, and XSL would render all that information into something much prettier and more controllable.</p><p><strong>XML pretty completely missed its original target market.</strong> SGML culture and web developer culture seemed like a poor fit on many levels, and I can’t say I even remember a concerted effort to explain what XML might mean to web developers, or to ask them whether this new vision of the Web had much relationship to what they were doing or what they had planned. <strong>SGML/XML culture and web culture never really meshed.</strong></p><p>Instead, XML took over much of SGML’s role in the publishing world, offered itself as a common format for data interchange, and became the foundation for a whole set of projects mistakenly called ‘web services’. <strong>That work on web services has proven to be about as successful on the Web as the original “SGML for the Web” vision.</strong></p><p><strong>Once again, no one paused to asked the web folk what they might actually want</strong>, and programmers’ visions yielded a replacement for CORBA and mainframe messaging rather than lightweight tools that web developers might find useful. No matter, though - those web developers eventually figured out that HTTP could carry bits of XML well enough to solve many of their problems, without requiring them to dive deeply into either XML or protocol design.</p></blockquote>
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			== See Also ==
			* [[SVG]]
			* [[WML]]