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hAudio issues

These are externally raised issues about hAudio with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are rejected for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be accepted and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.


Please add new issues to the bottom of the list by copy and pasting the . Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.

  • You can subscribe to all haudio issues on webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues


D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor

    1. the wording about contributor could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).

D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".

The "overloading" of fn for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html.

  1. Existing Resolution Manu Sporny has propsosed that "fn" should be replaced with "title" see: microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html
  2. Resolution 1: Martin McEvoy proposed change "title" to "name" see: microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html
  3. Resolution 2: Martin McEvoy later propsosed that "title" should be replaced with "htitle" see: microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html
  4. Resolution 3: Use "audio-title" As tentatively proposed by Manu Sporny see:microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html
  5. Resolution 4: Change "title" back to "fn" see: [2]
  6. Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)

D3: 2008-01-10 Position.

    1. The recommended use of "position" in hAudio is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [3] et seq)
      • For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <li class="item"> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <li> element which has a value attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <li> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <li> elements with value attributes, then you should assume that the value attribute of the first list item is equal to the start attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such start attribute. TobyInk 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
      • A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
      • ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
        • The element is identified by the class name |position|.
        • hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
        • The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
        • The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
      • ADDED:
      • Andy Mabbett also Expressed concerns that the should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as "position" is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
      • A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the hAudio Authoring Page

D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files

D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page

There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [4].

  1. Resolution 1: re use "url" from hCard.
  2. Resolution 2: use the rel "bookmark" HTML Link Type.

D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency

D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex

    1. The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
      • hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. TobyInk 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
      • The hAudio schema, could be simplified thus:
        • haudio, fn, album, contributor, photo, url, published, enclosure, duration, position, tag and description.
        • Removed: item inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with hReview, payment is just a url hAudio uses too many @rel's, category just use tag, price use the Currency Microformat when complete, and sample is an enclosure.

D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic

    1. hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the media info discussion.

D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community

    1. There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats The microformats process see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
      • The edit history for hAudio shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. TobyInk 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
        • Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by hMedia. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community Martin McEvoy 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
        • This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with hMedia Martin McEvoy 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)


Consider using this format (copy and paste this to the end of the list to add your issues; replace ~~~ with an external link if preferred) to report issues or feedback, so that issues can show up in hAtom subscriptions of this issues page. If open issues lack this markup, please add it.

Please post one issue per entry, to make them easier to manage. Avoid combining multiple issues into single reports, as this can confuse or muddle feedback, and puts a burden of separating the discrete issues onto someone else who 1. may not have the time, and 2. may not understand the issue in the same way as the original reporter.

<div class="hentry">
<span class="entry-summary author vcard">
 <span class="published">2011-MM-DD</span> 
 raised by <span class="fn">~~~</span>
<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
* <strong class="entry-title">«Short title of issue»</strong>. «Description of Issue»
** Follow-up comment #1
** Follow-up comment #2

see also

related pages