opening hours brainstorming

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Revision as of 20:58, 23 February 2021 by GRegorLove (talk | contribs) (→‎calendar of unnamed events: comment, indent)
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This is part of an effort per the microformats The microformats process to research, gather examples, and brainstorm for a microformat for marking up the opening hours for a business or organization.


Brainstorming proposals should only be written up after examples and formats research has been completed per the The microformats process.

calendar of unnamed events

As suggested by jacky in #microformats on freenode, a calendar of unnamed events (using h-event), perhaps nested in the venue's h-card, maybe sufficient to imply/convey opening hours for those days.

  • I think opening hours is worth its own type. `h-x-opening-hours` or some such thing. With a single property that is a nested h-event. Btrem (talk) 02:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
    • My only hesistation against making a new type is that the 'specifics' are things that can be defined by a machine (when to start, when to end) and everything else is human-specific (and thus a rendering layer). Jacky 18:41, 20 Feb 2021 PST
    • A new microformat (h-*) feels like it's taking on too big of a problem when we can probably find smaller problems to solve first (per The microformats process). A problem I think I saw come up in chat is how to represent the time for a day of the week. Maybe we could work on how to represent a "day-of-week relative" time with existing properties in an h-event. gRegor (talk) 20:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Jacky's Idea for Rendering a Week of Hours

Main Page:

 <aside class="h-card">
   We're open <a class="h-event u-url" href="/open-days" rel="calendar" title="Open Hours">Tuesdays to Fridays from 10 AM to 9 PM</a>, closed Sundays, Saturdays and Mondays.

Event Page:

  <aside class="h-feed">
     <h2 class="p-name">Hours</h2>
     <p class="h-event" id="Monday">Closed on <a href="#Monday" class="u-url p-name">Mondays</a>.</p>
     <p class="h-event" id="Tuesday">Open on <a href="#Tuesday" class="u-url p-name">Tuesdays</a> from <time class="dt-start" datetime="09:00:00">9 AM</time> to <time class="dt-end" datetime="18:00:00">6 PM</time>.</p>

Some thoughts:

Using `h-feed` for a feed of events raises some issues: h-feed is explicitly described as "a stream or feed of h-entry posts". I suppose that could be changed, but it requires changing a fairly stable spec. And it means that authors who are new to microformats will have to learn how to distinguish them. I think a new type should be used to avoid confusion. Note that hCalendar 1.0 was created as a 1:1 html version of iCalendar, a collection of events; microformats2's h-event is for a single event. If we go with a feed of events, we should revive the iCalendar idea. We need to give it a name that makes it clear it's a feed of events. Perhaps h-feed-events? Btrem (talk) 18:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

There are GitHub issues arguing against me and for broadening h-feed's use:

So that might be the way to go. I still think we need a way to determine that the feed specifies opening hours, perhaps with a p-children-type for h-feed. Btrem (talk) 20:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand how the id attributes and url fragment urls are supposed to work. The fragment urls link to their own p containers. Is that supposed to convey that this is a repeating event? Btrem (talk) 18:27, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

simple class proposal

proposed format:

<span class="operating-hours"> Tu-Sa 08:00-15:00; Sa 08:00-12:00 </span>

see it here:

Use a semicolon to separate the different days or or time ranges. Use two letter english day names. Times are local times with leading zero

This is the format as used in for a node description with opening hours. Openstreetmap has very rigid semantics, so it makes sense to follow their format. There are several issues with proposal:

  • citation needed - please provide a link to where Openstreetmap defines this format on the opening hours formats page. - Tantek 18:08, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  • no real world use case. how would such a microformat help users? this should be documented in the introduction to an opening-hours effort. - Tantek 21:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
  • proposal is 'a priori' - that is proposal has been made without documentation of real world examples per the The microformats process. please document real world Best Practices for Examples Pages of pages that would benefit from this markup so we can design the format only for their needs and no more. - Tantek 21:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
  • did not research previous formats. we have no idea if this effort is reinventing various wheels or not. - Tantek 21:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
  • uses new datetime formats, e.g. "Tu-Sa". Is there some way to re-use ISO8601 instead? - Tantek 21:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
  • not international, e.g. "Tu-Sa". this could be addressed with ISO8601 usage instead. - Tantek 21:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't see anything in ISO 8601 to specify days of the week. Btrem (talk) 17:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


see also