[uf-discuss] hAtom draft

David Janes -- BlogMatrix davidjanes at blogmatrix.com
Sun Dec 4 09:15:41 PST 2005

Ryan King wrote:
> On Nov 23, 2005, at 1:02 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
>> Have at it:
>> http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
> Some comments (sorry, its taken me awhile to get to this):
> 1. I notice that "feed title" and "feed permalink" have been deferred to 
> future versions (see http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Nomenclature). 
> Any reasons why? I must be missing something, 'cause these seem easy to me.

Honestly, I didn't find any consistent pattern and I didn't want to 
spend time figuring it out, so I deferred. If anyone wants to plug 
through the examples and try themselves...

> 2. Not to pick nits, but datetime's probably don't *have to* use the 
> datetime-design-pattern. People who want to are free to publish the ISO

Fair enough; I've updated hAtom with a note. Note that to be consistent 
with the Atom Datetime Construct, the time must be specified to the second.

> 3. I see that we're allowing multiple feeds per page. I wonder what the 
> pros and cons of this are?

It's a common pattern and offhand I don't foresee too many difficulties 
because most operations will be at the Entry level and disambiguatable 
(if that's a word) via. the Entry Permalink.

> 4. Why do we prefer <h#> over class="title" for entry titles?

See my earlier note. I'd really appreciate if you or Tantek got back to 
me here: my understanding is that we'd always prefer appropriate XHTML 

> 5. "Entry Permalinks MUST be absolute URIs". Why? We have well 
> established rules for relative urls.

I could lower this to SHOULD; feedback would be appreciated.

However, what I'm trying to accomplish is to let "rel-bookmark" provide 
byte comparable strings for providing "the best location for this resource".

The problem with relative URIs is that readers at 
"http://instapundit.com" and at "http://www.instapundit.com" will come 
up with two different sets of Entry Permalinks that are actually 
representing the same resources.

This even gets uglier with LiveJournal. I do recognize this may be an 
attempt at some mild social engineering on my part.

> 6. quote:
>> there can be at most 1 Entry in an XHTML document without an Entry 
>> Permalink; the Entry Permalink of this Entry is the URI of the page
>> This rule is needed for media pages (i.e. a news article on cnn.com). 
>> There is some ugliness of with this because the URI could be 
>> non-canonical."
> I'm not sure I follow this and don't see anything on the brainstorming 
> page about it.

It's in the blog-post-examples [1]. I'd like to make in practical for 
organizations such as CNN to markup pages such as [2] in hAtom without 
requiring them rewriting the way they do pages.

> 7. "the machine readable datetime should be encoded with an <abbr> ". 
> Again, maybe this *should* should be a *may* ?

See 2.

> 8. Open item for the list:
>> if there is no Entry Updated and Entry Published elements, 
>> transformation to Atom is problematic
>> This is because a published element is required. Suggestions would be 
>> appreciated here.
> Alright, so I'm going to stop before digging into the xmdp and parsing 
> details. Forgive me, david if any of this is ignorance.

It's all great -- bring it on. I'm back in fighting shape :-)

Regards, etc...

[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-post-examples#No_Entry_Permalink
[2] http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/03/katrina.townhall/index.html

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