proposal: new list: microformats-rest (was Re: [microformats-discuss] REX! Re: REST-discuss list, naming)

[Dr. Ernie Prabhakar]

Hi Tantek,

On Oct 21, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote:
> I've mostly stayed out of this excellent discussion.
>
> From everything that I can tell, Ernie has essentially discovered a  
> whole
> new world that can benefit from use of microformats.

Thank you.

> So what do people think of creating a new list, microformats-rest,
> specifically for the discussions about microformats and REST?

Well, I'm fine with that, if we can figure out how to optimally  
partition things so that people don't cross post everything.

 From my perspective, I see a sharp delineation between 'specialized'  
microformats like hCard and hCalendar vs. "generic" microformats like  
XOXO/XOXT/REST-like stuff.

So, I wonder if a more general "microformats an envelope for data" is  
a better category than just 'rest', e.g. something like:
	* microformats-data
	* microformats-tunneling
	* microformat-envelopes

Maybe not, in which case I'm fine with microformats-rest; I just  
wanted to double-check. In that case,  I presume that as the  
microformats-rest discussion settles onto specific concrete  
microformats for tables and forms, those would feed back into *this*  
list.  Would that work?

-- Ernie P.

P.S.  Do we *really* have to use the full name as the list prefix? In  
my poor email client, "Re: [microformats-discuss] " takes up most of  
my Subject column.  I'd be happier with 'mf-rest' as the prefix (if  
not the list name).  Of course, I still prefer the name  
"RESTafarians." :-)


>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tantek
>
> P.S. Before we first created microformats-discuss, we thought of  
> perhaps
> creating separate lists for each microformat, for focussed  
> discussions.  But
> then we realized that perhaps that would be overkill, and how would  
> we know
> which topics/microformats would be "popular" enough to warrant  
> their own
> lists?  We decided to just start with one, and then let the market  
> decide.
> When enough focused discussion around a particular topic emerged,  
> and if we
> believed the discussion would grow on an ongoing basis (rather than  
> just
> being a "popping" phenomenon), we would simply create a list for it.
>
> microformats-rest seems to fit that criteria.
>
> On 10/21/05 1:28 PM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/21/05, Ryan Tomayko <rtomayko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There's actually a lot more going on here. Joe, if you get some  
>>> time,
>>> run through these:
>>>
>>> http://microformats.org/wiki/duhper-proposal-preso
>>> (I think this is the latest, the url keeps changing)
>>>
>>> http://microformats.org/wiki/rest-brainstorming
>>>
>>> I've been watching from afar but the proposal is much more than just
>>> using XHTML w/ existing REST technique.  Briefly,
>>
>> Yeah, I have concerns too if this is the proposal.
>>
>> The biggest problem
>> is that HTML over HTTP is already RESTful. Every web page with a form
>> is already a self-descriptive hypertext document on how to compose
>> the request.
>>
>>>   1. Constraining REST verbs to POST/GET
>>
>> As for restricting to POST/GET, that's the wrong direction to be  
>> moving
>> in, just look at Web Forms 2.0[1] for what's coming in the next  
>> version
>> of HTML.
>>
>>>   2. A system for constructing URLs.
>>
>> There are already several systems for construction URLs,
>> for example the one included in
>> HTML, and OpenSearch[2].
>>
>>>   3. Discovery through URL construction as opposed to hypermedia.
>>
>> Hypertext as the engine of application state is an important
>> concept, one I've written an entire article on [3].
>>
>>>   4. Limiting transfer representations to application/x-www-form- 
>>> urlencoded
>>
>> I'm not gonna really comment on that except to point out that
>> uploading a video encoded in application/x-www-form-urlencoded
>> is going to be a bit wasteful.
>>
>>> I'd like to hear your feelings about some of these proposals as I  
>>> have
>>> reservations about a few of them (especially #1, #2, #3, #4).
>>
>> I've got my own ideas about how microformats intersect
>> with RESTful web services that I've outlined in [4],
>> in general seeing everything through my Atom colored
>> glasses.
>>
>> [1] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/
>> [2] http://opensearch.a9.com/spec/opensearchquerysyntax/1.1/
>> [3] http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/04/06/restful.html
>> [4] http://bitworking.org/news/What_do_you_see_in_Web_2_0_
>>
>>  -joe
>>
>> --
>> Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> microformats-discuss mailing list
>> microformats-discuss at microformats.org
>> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> microformats-discuss mailing list
> microformats-discuss at microformats.org
> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss

------------
Ernest N. Prabhakar, Ph.D. <drernie at opendarwin.org>
Ex-Physicist, Marketing Weenie, and Dilettante Hacker
Probe-Hacker blog: http://www.opendarwin.org/~drernie/