[uf-new] Re: markup advice for the citation microformat (Michael
McCracken)
Mary Hodder
mary at dabble.com
Tue Apr 24 09:30:10 PDT 2007
Note on the date discussion below.
On Friday at the Diversifying The Ecosystem For Online Video session
which I moderated, there was a lot of discussion about things like
this and how developers always go "amurican" as it were and that's
alienating to the rest of the world.
Is there something we could do here to make this more inviting to
people elsewhere? This makes sense to me:
>> <dd class="date">Publish date: <abbr class="date-published"
>> title="YYYYMMDD">
as neutral
but this:
>> MM/DD/YYYY</abbr> ...</dd>
reverts to the american date standard.
At Dabble we wrote some code to translate all the different date
formats we are getting both outside and inside. Can the microformat
also be set up to be flexible? Also, a lot of video we see just has
a year, no month or day. So can the formats be adjustable that way?
Just something to keep in mind.
mary
Mary Hodder
Founder: Dabble
Blogs: Dabble.com/blog
Napsterization.org/stories
On Apr 24, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Kristin Caulfield wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for the thorough response. I'd be happy to help "pull a
> little" on the process of developing hcite, particularly from a
> user point of view. I'm much more of a front end Web person
> focusing on design and IA. So if any information on how we
> categorize and collect metadata on our publications would be of use
> to you, I'd be happy to share. Right now, I've got developers
> setting up the backend database and CMS while I work on the layout
> template. But once I've got a working semblance of the site, I'll
> share it with you and it should give you a good working site to
> look at....We have A LOT of publications. At this stage of the
> game, I'm not even sure of how I would use this in the future, but
> I do know that I like the possibilities and if I'm doing the mark
> up work anyway, I might as well do it with an eye to the future.
> That said, I've got some questions/comments below on your reply:
>
>>> I'm also a bit fuzzy on how I would use hCard in combination with
>>> this microformat for author and publisher. For each publication
>>> there would always be at least one faculty member associated with
>>> our Center as an author and we will have contact and bio pages
>>> for these people that easily lends itself to using hCard.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're asking here. Hopefully going through the
>> examples below will help...
>
> Your examples helped a lot. I wasn't clear on the fact that you can
> combine classes to allow the use of multiple microformats on the
> same bits of information. Like I said, I'm a real newbie. I haven't
> gotten the book yet, but I did just get the the O'Reilly shortcut
> today.
>
>> for hcite, we'd mark up the date with class="date-published" and an
>> abbr element with a machine-readable date abbreviation, like this:
>>
>> <dd class="date">Publish date: <abbr class="date-published"
>> title="YYYYMMDD">MM/DD/YYYY</abbr> ...</dd>
>
> The date issue is something that we're working on right now in
> developing the backend database to our site. As mentioned in the
> citation-brainstorming section of the wiki, so many publication
> dates don't follow the standard machine-readable format of
> YYYYMMDD. Books tend to be just years, journals are usually month/
> year or season/year, etc. In our case, except for newspaper
> articles and the like, most of our publication dates wouldn't fit
> into the YYYYMMDD format. I don't really have a question about this
> issue right now, but if there have been any new developments/
> thoughts on this beyond what is on the wiki, I would like to know.
>
>>> <dd class="category">Publication Type: Journal article</dd>
>>
>> This is still up for debate.
>
> Is the debate as to whether or not to include this in the schema at
> all? Or would this be 'format'?
>
>> Here we would have the author represented as an hcard. We've also
>> been
>> using class="creator" instead of author, to allow for editors, etc.,
>> without requiring a lot of predefined class names.
>>
>
> Would it be best to use 'author' when the person is an author in
> the truest sense of the word and then use "creator" for all other
> situations (editor, translator, etc.)? Or just use 'creator' for
> every variation of authoring situations?
>
> That's all for now.
>
> Cheers,
> Kristin
>
> PS. I keep getting an internal server error on Brian Suda's site
> either using the X2C page or the favelet. I have a mac at home, but
> haven't had a chance to look at your BibDesk app.
>
>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:58:02 -0700
>> From: "Michael McCracken" <michael.mccracken at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [uf-new] markup advice for the citation microformat
>> To: "For discussion of new microformats."
>> <microformats-new at microformats.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <d4fa3cf70704231058t74aff202oec3d477cef61924 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi Kristin, welcome.
>>
>> 2007/4/20, Kristin Caulfield <kcaulfield at mac.com>:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm very much a newbie to microformats, having had my interest
>>> peaked by Dan Cederholm at An Event Apart in Boston in late
>>> March. So, I'm sure my question is elementary (I hope not too
>>> elementary for this list). I'm working on front end coding for an
>>> academic research center's new website that will provide users
>>> with access to all kinds of research publications by its faculty.
>>> I looked through the information on the wiki about the citation
>>> microformat and would like some feedback concerning whether or
>>> not I am heading in the right direction with how I'm coding
>>> publication entries for a microformat that is still in
>>> development. I would like to do as much work as I can now to mark
>>> up these items correctly even though the microformat is still
>>> being worked on. Any tips or suggestions ?
>>
>> The hcite format is pretty slow in development (I think everyone
>> involved is doing so as a second or third project), but if you are
>> willing to help pull a little, some experience with trying to use it
>> in a site like yours would really help move the process along.
>>
>> My suggestion is to try to use the existing proposed format, find
>> where there are problems, post them here and help us figure out
>> solutions.
>> The existing format is on the citation-brainstorming wiki page here:
>> http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-
>> brainstorming#Working_straw_schema
>>
>> There are currently two consumers of hcite-marked-up content that
>> I know of.
>> You could use them to see if your content is being read as you
>> would like.
>>
>> The first is Brian Suda's X2C, a web service that uses XSLT to
>> transform hcite into other formats, currently just bibtex:
>> http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/X2C/
>>
>> If you use a Mac, you can also use my app, BibDesk, to browse the web
>> and look for hcite formatted content. Because hcite is not complete,
>> it's a hidden feature now. I wrote more about that here:
>> http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/2007/01/26/bibdesk-and-the-hcite-
>> microformat/
>>
>> If we make changes based on your experience, I'll try to incorporate
>> those into BibDesk's hcite support as fast as possible.
>>
>>> Here is some background information on how we will group
>>> publications on the site. Our top level categories for
>>> publications are: Published papers, working papers, conference
>>> papers, seminar papers, books, datasets, and "In the News". It
>>> isn't until you get one level down in our categorization scheme
>>> that publications will take on standard bibliographic types. For
>>> example, our "In the News" category contains standard types of
>>> non-academic work produced by our faculty: Op-ed, book reviews,
>>> interviews, magazine articles, newspaper articles, etc.
>>>
>> OK
>>
>>> I'm also a bit fuzzy on how I would use hCard in combination with
>>> this microformat for author and publisher. For each publication
>>> there would always be at least one faculty member associated with
>>> our Center as an author and we will have contact and bio pages
>>> for these people that easily lends itself to using hCard.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're asking here. Hopefully going through the
>> examples below will help...
>>
>>> Here are a couple of examples of how I am coding brief summaries
>>> for published journal articles and newspaper articles:
>>>
>>> <dl class="inthenews">
>>> <dt class="title"><a href="res_publicat/pub_papers/
>>> summary_pubpapers.htm">Assessing China's Power</a></dt>
>>> <dd class="author">by <a href="people/longbio.htm">Joseph
>>> S. Nye, Jr.</a></dd>
>>> <dd class="publisher">Published by: <cite><a href="http://
>>> www.boston.com">The Boston Globe</a></cite></dd>
>>> <dd class="description">We examine the empirical role of
>>> different explanations for the lack of flows of capital from rich
>>> to poor countries—the “Lucas Paradox.” The
>>> theoretical explanations include differences in
>>> fundamentals…</dd>
>>> <dd class="category">Publication Type: Op-Ed</dd>
>>> <dd class="date">Publish date: MM/DD/YYYY <a
>>> href="res_publicat/pub_papers/summary_inthenews.htm"
>>> class="more">More</a>
>>> </dl>
>>>
>>> <dl class="paper">
>>
>> For hcite, the root element should also have the class 'hcite'.
>>
>>> <dt class="title"><a href="res_publicat/pub_papers/
>>> summary_pubpapers.htm">Reconciliation as identity change: A
>>> social-psychological perspective</a></dt>
>>
>> title is fine, and if you add class="uri" to the link, it will be
>> picked up as a link that is an identifier for the citation.
>>
>>> <dd class="author">by <a href="people/
>>> longbio.htm">Herbert C. Kelman</a></dd>
>>
>> Here we would have the author represented as an hcard. We've also
>> been
>> using class="creator" instead of author, to allow for editors, etc.,
>> without requiring a lot of predefined class names.
>>
>> Here's what that would look like with a minimal hcard:
>>
>> <dd class="vcard creator">by <a class="fn" href="...">Herbert C.
>> Kelman</a></dd>
>>
>> (Other µf people, correct me if I'm getting something wrong here.)
>>
>>> <dd class="description">This artcle focuses on
>>> reconciliation in the context of and in relation to an emerging
>>> or recently completed process of conflict resolution.…</dd>
>>
>> 'description' is fine, an hcite consumer will read that (BibDesk
>> reads
>> it as the abstract).
>>
>>> <dd class="category">Publication Type: Journal article</dd>
>>
>> This is still up for debate.
>>
>>> <dd class="date">Publish date: MM/DD/YYYY <a
>>> href="res_publicat/pub_papers/summary_pubpapers.htm"
>>> class="more">More</a></dd>
>>
>> for hcite, we'd mark up the date with class="date-published" and an
>> abbr element with a machine-readable date abbreviation, like this:
>>
>> <dd class="date">Publish date: <abbr class="date-published"
>> title="YYYYMMDD">MM/DD/YYYY</abbr> ...</dd>
>>
>>
>> Let me know if you have any questions, and if you give these
>> changes a
>> try, we'd love to hear what experience you have in publishing with
>> hcite.
>>
>>> </dl>
>>>
>>> Full summaries would also include: Author bio information, the
>>> full Chicago Manual of Style formatted citation, and copyright
>>> information.
>>>
>>> And if the general microformat list is more appropriate, I
>>> apologize. Since citation is still an open microformat I came here.
>>
>> I think this list is fine. It seems like most of the people
>> working on
>> hCite are also on this list...
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help,
>>> K. Caulfield
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -mike
>>
>> --
>> Michael McCracken
>> UCSD CSE PhD Candidate
>> research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/
>> misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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