Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

hreview-examples-in-wild

2009-12-17T20:58:53Z

Donohoe: /* New Examples */ The New York Times, added almost 20,000 hReview pages

<h1>hReview Examples in the wild </h1>
This page is an '''informative''' section of the [[hreview|hReview]] specification.

The following sites have published [[hreview|hReviews]], and thus are a great place to start for anyone looking for examples "in the wild" to try parsing, indexing, organizing etc.

If you publish hReviews on your own site, feel free to add it to the '''top''' of this list. Please be sure to include at least one URL to a page on your site that includes actual [[hreview|hReview]] markup. Examples added without a URL to a page with hReview markup may be removed.

Want to get started with writing an [[hreview|hReview]]? Use the [http://microformats.org/code/hreview/creator hReview creator] to write a review and publish it on your blog or site.

== New Examples ==
* [http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/new-york/new-york-city/1002207982790/al-di-la/restaurant-detail.html The New York Times] uses hReview for all its Venue pages under the [http://travel.nytimes.com/ Travel] section, which cover Restaurant, Hotels, Shopping, Nightlife and Attractions. There are approximately 20,000 geo-coded venue pages.
* [http://www.cafebritt.com Café Britt] uses hReviews for product reviews. Also uses hProduct, hListing and rel=tag. Examples: [http://www.cafebritt.com/costa-rica-dark-roast Costa Rica Dark Roast] and [http://www.cafebritt.com/costa-rica-coffees Costa Rica Coffees].
* [http://www.flightline.co.uk Flightline] uses hReviews for our customers hotel reviews as seen on the hotel accommodation landing pages (click 'Read all reviews'). For examples see [http://www.flightline.co.uk/accommodation/hotel-search.php?hotel=20080730132603302392&supplier=Medhotels Forte Do Vale 4* in Portugal, Algarve, Albufeira], [http://www.flightline.co.uk/accommodation/hotel-search.php?hotel=11152&supplier=holidaybrokers Laguna Park II 3* in Spain, Tenerife, Playa de las Americas], [http://www.flightline.co.uk/accommodation/hotel-search.php?hotel=11135&supplier=HolidayBrokers Santa Maria Aparthotel 3* in Canary Islands, Tenerife, Costa Adeje] and [http://www.flightline.co.uk/accommodation/hotel-search.php?hotel=20081009130037970855&supplier=Medhotels Sunset Bay Club 3* in Canary Islands, Tenerife, Costa Adeje].
* [http://www.zappos.com Zappos.com] uses hReviews on product reviews seen on product/lifestyle style landing pages and brand pages. For examples see [http://www.zappos.com/shoes Shoes], [http://www.zappos.com/clothing Clothing], [http://www.zappos.com/bags Bags & Handbags], and [http://www.zappos.com/nike Nike].
* [http://www.iphonespeakerreviews.com/ iPhone Speaker Reviews] is built with Joomla and jReviews and has both editor and user reviews. Currently the editor reviews are published using hReview. Example: [http://www.iphonespeakerreviews.com/bose/bose-sounddock-series-ii-iphone-speaker-review.html Bose SoundDock Series II Review].
* [http://abyrvalg.com/ Abyrvalg] is a russian city community. Users submit reviews of local businesses. Reviews are published using hReview and hCard markup. Example: [http://kiev.abyrvalg.com/biz/sunduk reviews of Sunduk pub in Kiev].
* [http://www.bankfox.com/ BankFox] is a search engine for banks. It has user-submitted reviews of bank accounts, marked up with hReview. For example, here's a page of [http://www.bankfox.com/account/online-savings/ally-bank/reviews/ reviews of Ally Bank].
* [http://whichtwitterapp.com/ WhichTwitterApp] provides [http://whichtwitterapp.com/reviews/adobe-air/tweetdeck-desktop reviews of twitter clients] using hReview, hCard, rel-tag and rel-home.
* [http://musicremedy.com/ MusicRemedy.com], a music site, publishes all song-reviews in hReview format, see [http://musicremedy.com/m/Madonna/videos/Miles_Away-22498.html example].
* Italian free business directory [http://www.cylex.it/ cylex.it] marked up with hReview all user submitted reviews of companies and products. Example: [http://www.cylex.it/azienda/mondial-security-10559327.html company profile with review].
* [http://www.sustainlane.com/ SustainLane] uses hreview for user reviews of local green businesses and green products ([http://www.sustainlane.com/reviews/b-restaurant-bar/YSNIVHY298U2SBV7AWNUJ1VWYWOR example]). Also rel-tag, hcard, vcard, and many more coming.
* [http://www.momentville.com/ MomentVille] uses hReview markup for wedding vendor reviews. Example: [http://vendors.momentville.com/vendors/elizabeth_morgan_photography/reviews Reviews of Hawaii Wedding Photographer].
* [http://inkweaver-review.blogspot.com Inkweaver Review] uses a modified Blogger XML template to automatically generate hReview markup for its reviews of young adult books. Example: [http://inkweaver-review.blogspot.com/2009/05/toby-alone-by-timothee-de-fombelle.html Review of Toby Alone by Timothee de Fombelle].
* [http://www.eduhub.nl Eduhub] uses hReview for it's user reviews of trainings. Example: [http://www.eduhub.nl/tijdwinst/1-daagse-training-cursus-time-management#ervaringen Trainingreviews] .
* [http://aplawrence.com APLawrence.com] has started using hReview for its [http://aplawrence.com/cgi-bin/indexget.pl?Reviews reviews]
* [http://www.commonsensemedia.org Common Sense Media] now uses hReview for its parent-focused [http://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews movie reviews]. hReview for other media types (books, music, websites) is forthcoming.
* [https://www.brownbook.net Brownbook.net] The global free business directory that anyone can edit uses hReviews for customer submitted reviews on all its business listings. Example [http://www.brownbook.net/business/30991528/celebrity-lipstick Temecula Lipstick], or check out any of the reviews on the home page.
* [https://www.dutchbulbs.com/store/holidaygifts/16420 DutchBulbs.com] uses hReview for customer submitted reviews of its bulbs and perennials.
* [http://www.cleanertoday.com/Roof-Shingle-Cleaner-Reviews-s/116.htm CleanerToday] has implemented hReview linked to an hCard for reviews on product pages. (for example see [http://www.cleanertoday.com/Indian-Meal-Moth-Traps-p/trap-birdseed.htm Moth Trap Reviews].
* [http://www.MaxiMovieBlog.com] uses hReview, rel-nofollow and rel-tag microformats for reviews of movies and home-theater electronics
* [http://newyork.brokerbeagle.com BrokerBeagle] uses hReview linked to an hCard via the include-pattern to mark up reviews of New York apartment brokers, see [http://newyork.brokerbeagle.com/broker-302-harris_philip.html example].
* [http://anime.mikomi.org anime.mikomi.org] uses hReview to mark up all of its user reviews of anime series, see [http://anime.mikomi.org/series/292.html example].
* [http://www.ecovian.com Ecovian] uses hReview to mark up user reviews of environmentally friendly businesses, see [http://www.ecovian.com/l/san-francisco-ca/millennium-restaurant example]
* Russian site [http://hotelmate.ru/ Hotel Mate] uses hReview for user submitted hotel reviews.
* Swedish music site [http://dagensskiva.com/ dagensskiva.com] publishes all reviews in hReview format.
* [http://bergantinedesign.us Joseph Bergantine] periodically reviews things he [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/my-name-is-rachel-corrie likes] or [http://bergantinedesign.us/blog/my-microwave-has-a-button-that-says-record dislikes] on his blog
* [http://microrevie.ws MicroReviews] - takes Twitter posts and marks them up with [[hReview]]. The markup is descibed on the [http://microrevie.ws/technical technical page].
* [http://www.scubafreebies.com ScubaFreebies.com] - reviews websites for SCUBA divers in hReview format. For example [http://www.scubafreebies.com/review/theaquaplanet review of video site theAquaPlanet]
* [http://www.hypercasinos.com Hypercasinos.com] - offers reviews of online casinos in hReview format. For example [http://www.hypercasinos.com/content/view/27/1/ a Bodog Casino review]
* [http://www.allogarage.fr/ Allogarage] - compare 13 000 motor mechanics in France- all reviews are in hReview format.
* [http://www.lopico.com Lopico - social business directory] - local business reviews in hReview
* [http://www.rolandinsh.lv/blog Rolands Umbrovskis - Blog] marked up with hReview all blog posts, using very basic requirements (hReview -> rating), for readers rating of any post/page.
* [http://www.concertbuzz.net ConcertBuzz- Concert Reviews] uses hReview for all user submitted concert reviews. See an [http://www.concertbuzz.net/genres/classic-rock/jethro-tull.html individual review page].
* All the [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/review/ West Midland Bird Club's reviews], e.g. [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/review/countrymans-bedside-book.htm Countryman's Bedside Book]
* [http://www.novedge.com/ Novedge], the largest online CAD/CAM/DCC store, uses hReview for all product reviews (currently about 2000 reviews). See [http://www.novedge.com/review/1978/ single review page] and [http://www.novedge.com/Robert-McNeel/Rhino-4-0/products/2217/tab/3 multiple reviews page]. Each hReview is also visually marked with the hReview button: http://rbach.priv.at/2006/buttons/hreview.png
* [http://club.coneco.net/ Coneco Club] (in Japanese) uses hReview for all product reviews. See [http://club.coneco.net/user/4/review/4178/index.htm example]
* [http://lanetro.com/ lanetro.com], lead city and entertainment guide in the Spanish market with users's reviews about places, restaurants, movies, theaters, shops... Uses hReview (see [http://madrid.lanetro.com/restaurantes-indios/mumbai-massala-282573 example]), hCards and events ([http://teatro.lanetro.com/homo-ridens-20473072 example]) on its detail pages.
* [http://11870.com/pro/11870 11870.com] a social network (real life del.icio.us) which implements hReview for user's reviews about places, services and business
* [http://www.mises.org/periodical.aspx?Id=2 The Mises Review], an academic journal, uses hReview for their book reviews. See [http://www.mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=317 example]
* [http://www.golfdigest.com/ Golf Digest] uses hReview on its [http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/places Course Finder] detail pages to publish user comments, ratings and geo. [http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/places/2483 example]
* [http://www.ramkol.co.il/ Ramkol] (in Hebrew) Advanced social networking based local reviews in Israel
* [http://www.popsyndicate.com/ PopSyndicate] is a groups review site for comic books, movies, dvds, music, and book using hReview and hCard.
* [http://www.mitkbh.dk/ MitKBH] (in danish) uses hReview to publish reviews of shops, clubs, bars, cafées, take-aways and restaurants in Copenhagen, Denmark. Each reviewed place has also a geo incl.[http://www.mitkbh.dk/node.php?node=238 example]
* [http://www.readandtravel.info Read&Travel] includes meta-information using hReview for travel-book reviews.
* [http://www.mangospot.dk/ Mangospot] uses hReview to publish reviews of bars, cafées and restaurants [http://mangospot.dk/Steder/245/Klassisk65-BistroVinbar.aspx example]
* [http://www.sean-johnson.com/ Sean Johnson] has started using hReview for [http://www.sean-johnson.com/2007/05/04/everyman-by-philip-roth/ book] and [http://www.sean-johnson.com/2007/05/01/feist-the-reminder/ music] reviews.
* [http://www.loudervoice.com/ LouderVoice] publishes and aggregates hReviews to/from blogs. All [http://www.loudervoice.com/search?q=hotel+cork Search/Tag Results] are also marked up with hReview.
* [http://www.bayofislands.net/ Bay of Islands] uses hReview eg. for reviews of [http://www.bayofislands.net/accommodation/apartments/edgewater-palms-apartments/#reviews Edgewater Palms]
* [http://spotspotting.com/ SpotSpotting], a site where TV commercials are reviewed and marked up with hReview (in Spanish)
* [[User:AndrewKuchling]] has added hReview to his book diary and would like to know if the markup is correct; [http://www.amk.ca/books/h/Velocity_of_Honey example 1], [http://www.amk.ca/books/h/Star_Wars_On_Trial example 2])
* [http://www.revish.com/ Revish], a book review community, uses hReview for all reviews on the site.
* [[User:EdwardOConnor]] has published several hReviews on his blog ([http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/08/cask-room 1], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/10/lud-in-the-mist 2], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/11/hoboken 3], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/11/basic 4], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/11/legitimacy 5], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/11/pizza-port 6], [http://edward.oconnor.cx/2006/12/lady-dottie-and-the-diamonds 7]).
* [http://ficlets.com/stories/12 Ficlets] story page uses hReview for user comments.
* Birder's Library, e.g. [http://www.birderslibrary.com/reviews/dvd/audubon_video_guide.htm Audubon VideoGuide to 505 Birds of North America]
* [http://www.raveaboutit.com.au Rave About It] uses hReviews for all local business reviews. In addition it uses the hCard format for a business's contact details.
**No examples on cited page
*[[User:RobCrowther]] has a number of hReviews on his blog, for example [http://www.boogdesign.com/b2evo/index.php/a/2007/02/09/webdd07_unobtrusive_javascript_with_rail this is one of a sequence of reviews of talks at WebDD07], and a [http://www.boogdesign.com/b2evo/index.php/a/2007/02/28/wsg_london_accessibility_meetup single post with three reviews].
*[http://www.volume.co.uk/main/clients/clients.aspx Volume] publishes client reviews/quotes as hReviews.
* [http://revyu.com/ Revyu] allows people to review, rate, and tag anything. Individual reviews ([http://revyu.com/reviews/0b03069358e6c718167e09119f7709dc50fb3f6e/about/html example]) are marked up using hReview.
*[http://www.globaldm.co.uk/our-clients.html GlobalDM] publishes client reviews/quotes as hReviews.
* [http://www.dishola.com/dishes/index/Austin,%20TX Dishola] publishes user reviews and ratings of dishes at restaurants, as opposed to entire "restaurant" reviews.
* [http://musicknows.com/1998/10/22/the-science-lesson MusicKnows] publishes user reviews and memories of gigs using hReview.
** hReview does not have an item
* [http://thetenwordreview.com The Ten Word Review] simply contains ten word long reviews. All reviews are marked up as hReviews, and user information is marked up as hCards.
* [http://www.halogenguides.com Halogen Guides] is an independent network of websites for wealthy consumers. Member-created reviews for [http://realestate.halogenguides.com/company/exclusive-resorts/reviews destination clubs], private jets and fractional real estate are published with hReview.
* [http://www.board-crazy.co.uk Board Crazy Skateboarding] uses hReviews for all [http://www.board-crazy.co.uk/skate-reviews.php skateboarding product reviews].
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://local.yahoo.com Yahoo Local] now supports hReviews for all the user feedback and ratings about places in their search results
*[http://corkd.com/ Cork'd] is a community site for reviewing and sharing wine. Member-created "Tasting Notes" are published using hReview.
*[[User:ChrisCasciano]] has started using hReview in his blog postings including these reviews of [http://chunkysoup.net/article/211/TechnoratisNewToys Pingerati and Technorati Microformat Search].
*[http://www.judysbook.com/ Judy's Book] is a local reviews community. Athe hCard format.
*[http://www.judysbook.com/ Judy's Book] is a local reviews community. All reviews are published in hReview format, and all business listings and members (review authors) in the hCard format.
* [http://tech.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Tech] has launched with hReview markup on all their reviews! Hat tips: [http://nerddawg.blogspot.com/2006/05/hreview-microformat-on-yahoo-tech.html Ashish Shetty] and [http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/006729.html Jeremy Zawodny] both via [http://www.moskalyuk.com/blog/yahoo-tech-tip-of-the-day/1058 Alex Moskalyuk]. [http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/006729.html#comment-27779 Alex says]: "when we launched, the press reported on 300,000 tech products in our database. Some popular items, like [http://tech.yahoo.com/pr/apple-ipod-video-30gb-black-mp3-player/1992981873 this Apple iPod], have over 200 reviews."
* [http://3spots.blogspot.com/2006/05/social-bookmarking-smarking.html 3spots: Social + bookMARKING = Smarking] has an hReview of
[http://smarking.com/ Smarking.com] (a social bookmarking service) which marks up their tagged links with [[xfolk|xFolk]].
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
*[http://www.pacificspirit.com Dave Orchard] provides hreview marked [http://www.pacificspirit.com/Restaurants-Vancouver.html Vancouver Restaurant reviews]
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
*[http://3spots.blogspot.com/2006/04/what-is-wikio-definitely-web-20-but.html hReview of Wikio]
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
*[http://jg.typepad.com/ciel/ Joan] has published [http://jg.typepad.com/ciel/2006/02/daniel_bouluds_.html an hReview of Garçon]
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
*[http://zipingo.typepad.com/ Zipingo Team Blog], a collaborative blog by the Zipingo Product Development Team at Intuit, used the hReview format to tag [http://zipingo.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/12/finding_an_elec.html the backstory] of a review on a San Mateo electrician, written by one of the Zipingo team members ZipingoJim. Jim's post also links to his review on [http://www.zipingo.com Zipingo], a consumer opinion site.
** hReview does not have an item
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.debaser.it/ DeBaser.it] publishes music reviews (in Italian) supporting hReview.
* [http://blog.ftwr.co.uk/ Peter Westwood] posted an [http://blog.ftwr.co.uk/archives/2006/01/05/the-fox-inn/ hReview of The Fox Inn]
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.livejournal.com/users/danieljohn/ Daniel John] provides a [http://www.livejournal.com/users/danieljohn/58674.html scathing hReview of CIBC].
** hReview does not have an item
* [http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/movie-reviews/ Yahoo UK Movie Reviews] now supports hReview on all (>2000) reviews, e.g. [http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/h/Harry-Potter-and-the-Goblet-of-Fire/review-41195.html Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Review]
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://adam.typepad.com/impossiblethings/ Adam Hertz] wrote hReviews of [http://adam.typepad.com/impossiblethings/2005/11/soluna.html Soluna] and [http://adam.typepad.com/impossiblethings/2006/05/cafe_gibraltar.html Cafe Gibraltar]
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.mattmcalister.com/blog/ Matt McAllister] wrote an [http://www.mattmcalister.com/blog/_archives/2005/11/16/1408893.html hReview of the TV show: "The Office"]
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.bmannconsulting.com/blog/bmann/ Boris Mann] wrote an [http://www.bmannconsulting.com/blog/bmann/doubletake-best-panorama-stitch-tool-for-mac-os-x hReview of DoubleTake, a panorama stitch tool for Mac OS X]
** hReview does not have an item
* [http://blog.ftwr.co.uk/ Peter Westwood] has written an [http://blog.ftwr.co.uk/archives/2005/10/03/blubeckers-hampton-court/ hReview of Blubeckers Hampton Court] and an [http://blog.ftwr.co.uk/archives/2006/01/05/the-fox-inn/ hReview of The Fox Inn Bucks Green, West Sussex]
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/ Dougal] has published an [http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/08/03/french-vanilla-latte hReview of Wolfgang Puck’s Gourmet French Vanilla Latte].
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.dinnerbuzz.com/ Dinnerbuzz] is a great site for posting tagged reviews of restaurants, and they publish and summarize all their reviews in hReview!
* [http://soldierant.net/ Bryce Glass (Soldier Ant)] posted an [http://soldierant.net/archives/2005/06/product_review.html hReview of the Uniden ELBT 595 Bluetooth Cordless Phone].
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* dda posted an [http://sungnyemun.org/wordpress/?p=20 hReview of hReview] :)
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* An [http://tbp.xomerang.com/?p=3 hReview of Caffè Camardo coffee].
** No hreview on page even though the page claims to be an hreview
* [http://loadaveragezero.com/hnav/contact.php Douglas Clifton] posted [http://loadaveragezero.com/#May-12-2005 comments] regarding adapting his list of ~800 [http://loadaveragezero.com/app/drx Developer Resources] as a format for evaluating hReview.
* [http://www.oliverbrown.me.uk/ Oliver Brown] [http://www.oliverbrown.me.uk/2005/05/09/sitereviewsorg-supports-hreview-i-think/ has announced] that his [http://en-us.sitereviews.org/ SiteReviews.org] (which reviews websites) publishes its reviews using hReview, e.g. here is the [http://en-us.sitereviews.org/review-photomatt.net review on SiteReviews.org for photomatt.net].
* [http://www.myelin.co.nz/post/ Phillip Pearson] is publishing hReviews in the [http://coffee.gen.nz/rss/reviews RSS feed of cafe reviews] on his [http://coffee.gen.nz/ kiwi coffee review site], which of course has the reviews in HTML with embedded hReview markup as well.
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://station11.net/ticker/ Kjell] is publishing his link blog as a [http://station11.net/ticker/ list of hReviews].
** hReviews have no fn specified on the item - 12/11/2006
* [http://epeus.blogspot.com/ Kevin Marks] has [http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_epeus_archive.html#111484565269684374 published two hReviews] and used unicode "star" characters for his ratings!
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* JamesStewart is publishing hReviews in the location pages at his [http://grwifi.net Grand Rapids WiFi site].
* [http://www.happenchance.co.uk/ Paul Livingstone] uses hreview to voice his opinion on [http://happenchance.co.uk/reading/ books] and [http://happenchance.co.uk/listening/ music].
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/ Andy Clarke] uses hReview for his [http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/general/recommended-reading.html recommended reading list].
** hReviews have no fn specified on the item - 12/11/2006
* [http://nachlin.com/ Jim Nachlin] has added hReview publishing to the CMS he uses to publish [http://daysofleisure.com/writing his blog].
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://whumpdotcom.livejournal.com/236856.html Bill Humphries] has reviewed the book "A Brother's Price" on his LiveJournal.
** hReviews have invalid item/fn markup (fn not a child of item) - 12/11/2006
* [http://www.thinkvitamin.com/ Vitamin] uses hReview on it's [http://www.thinkvitamin.com/reviews/ reviews] section (e.g. a [http://www.thinkvitamin.com/reviews/webapps/fluxiom/ review of Fluxiom]).
* [http://www.openguides.org/ OpenGuides] has support for the hReview microformat, and you can see it in action on [http://cotswolds.openguides.org/wiki/The_Plough,_Finstock this Cotswolds OpenGuide Review].
** hReview does not have an item
* [http://paulgoscicki.com Paul Goscicki] is publishing his [http://paulgoscicki.com/#wp_movie_ratings movie ratings] using hReview.
* [http://www.cellphones.ca/ Cell Phones etc.] is using hReviews for user-contributed [http://www.cellphones.ca/cell-phones/reviews/ cell phone reviews].
* [http://www.liptrot.org Adam Liptrot] publishes movie reviews using hReview and hCard. See article at [http://www.liptrot.org/journal/entries/movies_and_microformats/ Movies and Microformats].
* [http://www.webteacher.ws Web Teacher] is using hReview for book reviews in both the hReview creator format and a modified format. See a modified example at [http://www.webteacher.ws/2006/11/review-web-design-complete.html Web Design: A Complete Introduction].
** hReviews include the rating inside of the description - 12/11/2006
* [http://niftylist.co.uk/ The nifty list UK.] is using hReviews for user-contributed [http://niftylist.co.uk/mobiles/ mobile phone reviews].
** hReview does not have an item
* [http://sergiosantos.info/2007/3/books SergioSantos.info] uses hReviews for the reviewed book collection.
* [http://www.dcs-media.com/ DCS Media] converted all of their Firefox extension Reviews into hReview format. See the [http://www.dcs-media.com/fireday/default.aspx Fireday] page for extension listings.
* [http://bit.ly/iiag Is It Any Good . biz]has added hReview to all of their product reviews. See this example review of [http://bit.ly/2A3nVk Leapster2 Learning System ].

== Examples with some problems ==
If you find a problem with any example in any other section, please move it here, and note the precise problem and cite the section of the [[hreview|hReview spec]] that appears to be violated. If the example that was moved here is yours, and you want to improve it, see the [[hreview-faq|hReview FAQ]], or raise any queries on [[hreview-issues|hReview issues]] or [[mailing-lists#microformats-discuss|the mailing list]], where people will be happy to help you.

* [http://apple.com/store Apple Store] customer reviews are marked up in hReview, as in [http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=E1BD7358&fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/airport_wireless&nplm=MB053LL/A#review-RTD4T4KYJYYF9UC44 this review] of the Airport Extreme Base Station.
**'''sub-optimal''': Model numbers (?) marked up as URLs, e.g. <code><nowiki>MB053LL/A</nowiki></code>
*loadaveragezero.com e.g. [http://loadaveragezero.com/app/drx/Data_Formats/Metadata/XMDP]
**'''invalid''': no fn (site owner informed)
* ...

== Reviewed Examples ==
If you have reviewed a New Example (and you are not the author of the example) and believe it to be valid, go ahead and move it here.
* ...

==Related pages==
{{hreview-related-pages}}

hcard-brainstorming

2008-08-07T13:52:15Z

Donohoe: /* "fn" and "extended-address" combination */ Comment on extended-address

<h1> hCard Brainstorming </h1>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[hcard|hCard]]. This page contains proposals. For the current state please see [[hcard|hCard]].

== Authors ==
* [http://suda.co.uk/ Brian Suda]
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik] (formerly of [http://technorati.com Technorati, Inc])

== Contributors ==
* [[User:Atamido|Atamido]]
* [[User:ChrisMessina|ChrisMessina]]
* [[User:DimitriGlazkov|DimitriGlazkov]]
* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]
* ...
* ... and many others

== Problems Being Solved ==

Some of the problems that [[hcard|hCard]] helps to solve:

* having to enter business cards that go out of date (subscribe to someone's syndicated [[hcard|hCard]] instead).
* annoying "update your contact info" email from various centralized contact info services
* [[social-network-portability]] through the use of [[hcard-supporting-user-profiles|hCard supporting user profiles]] and [[hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists|hCard+XFN supporting friends lists]]

== Named locations ==
Most hCards contain contact information for people or organizations. But locations that aren't organizations are also deserving of their own hCard (e.g. somebody's house/apartment). This situation can be represented by combining "fn" and "extended-address".

=== "fn" and "extended-address" combination ===

'''Proposal''': Similar to [[hcard#Organization_Contact_Info|organization contact info]], if the "fn" property and an "extended-address" property have the exact same value (typically because they are set on the same element, e.g. <code>class="fn extended-address"</code>), then

# The hCard represents contact information for a place and SHOULD be treated as such.
# The author also MUST NOT set the "N" property, or set it (and any sub-properties) explicitly to the empty string "".
# Parsers SHOULD handle the missing "n" property by implying empty values for all the "n" sub-properties.

'''Further proposal''': Consider also an hCard for a City, "Birmingham, England": Birmingham may be the "fn" and the "locality", but it's not an "extended-address". Perhaps the rule should be that the hCard is for a place if the "fn" is on any address component (e.g "fn locality" or "fn street-address")?

'''For further consideration''': One real problem right now is that we provide a field for our users to enter a 'Location' on our [http://timespeople.nytimes.com/view/user/9354457/1/index.html User Pages]. In real life this has ranged from '8th floor', 'New York', 'Company Name', My Desk', 'http://some.site.com' - the majority being generalized geographic city or state names. Right now there is no property to properly handle this, but this one appears to come close. If this cannot be used for such purposes I would ask that this be looked into further as I don't think its a unique problem.

=== Examples in the wild ===

* The named location "Picnic benches" in the address "Picnic benches, South Park, San Francisco, California" in [http://adactio.com/journal/1364/ a blog post on adactio.com].
<pre><nowiki>


Picnic benches
South Park
San Francisco
California


</nowiki></pre>

==== Potential examples in the wild ====

* The location "Phone Boxes by the Sealife Centre" [http://upcoming.yahoo.com/venue/5668/ on Upcoming] is currently marked up as "fn org":
<pre><nowiki>
<div class="vcard">
<div class="fn org">Phone Boxes by the Sealife Centre</div>
<div class="adr">
Marine Parade 
Brighton & Hove,
England
BN2 1TB 
United Kingdom 
01273 606674
</div>
<div class="note">Just a meeting place, in case the venue changes.</div>
</div>
</nowiki></pre>
This could be marked up as:
<pre><nowiki>
<div class="vcard">
<div class="adr">
<div class="fn extended-address">Phone Boxes by the Sealife Centre</div>
Marine Parade 
Brighton & Hove,
England
BN2 1TB 
United Kingdom 
01273 606674
</div>
<div class="note">Just a meeting place, in case the venue changes.</div>
</div>
</nowiki></pre>

===Concerns===
The above seems to be an elegant solution, but a wider variety of examples form published pages are needed, to be sure it meets all common scenarios. these should include cases where "adr" is not already used; note that in that case an extra level of nesting is required. The implications of this, for hCards already published, should be considered.

Also, what about hCards for published locations, which already include an extended address?

e.g.

<pre><nowiki>
<div class="vcard">
Powell's Pool

Sutton Park
Birmingham
England

</div>
</nowiki></pre>

[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 05:40, 15 Dec 2007 (PST)

===Revised proposal===
*See revised proposal at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-December/011169.html microformats-discuss/2007-December/011169.html]

=== named location formats ===
Previous named location format efforts:

==== Simple GeoRSS featurename ====
The [http://georss.org/simple Simple GeoRSS] vocabulary contains the following named location example in the "Additional Properties" section that references a <code>featurename</code> tag.

<blockquote><h3>Feature Type, Feature Name, and Relationship Tags</h3>The Feature Type, Feature Name, and Relationship tags are specified as GeoRSS elements.<pre><nowiki>
<georss:point>45.256 -110.45</georss:point>
<georss:featuretypetag>city</georss:featuretypetag>

<georss:relationshiptag>is-centered-at</georss:relationshiptag>

<georss:featurename>Podunk</georss:featurename>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A [http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ageorss.org%20featurename search for featurename on georss.org] fails to find any other references however, including a definition.

An [http://lists.eogeo.org/pipermail/georss/2006-December/000895.html email on the georss list from Dec 2006] thread "featurename, other missing bits from the site" notes that "there is some updating to do" in response to a concern that "that descriptions of "featurename" are not present on GeoRSS Simple and the GeoRSS Model. GeoRSS GML makes no mention of the non-geometric properties at all."

== FN Nickname semantic ==
There are many sites (e.g. [http://flickr.com Flickr], [http://consumating.com/ Consumating]) which permit the user to '''both''' have a multi-word login/handle/alias, '''and''' not show their ''real'' name (fn, n, given-name, family-name etc.).

For the people represented by the profile pages of these sites, the best we can do is mark-up their login/handle/alias as their "nickname". Originally, we had thought that such handles etc. were single words only, and thus we created the [[hcard#Implied_.22nickname.22_Optimization|Implied nickname optimization]] accordingly, where you can markup the handle as an "fn", and have it automatically set a "nickname" property value, and empty values for all the "n" sub-values.

In order to deal with multi-word handles, similar to the [[hcard#Organization_Contact_Info|hCard Organization contact info]] method, the following is proposed:

=== "fn" and "nickname" combination ===

Due to the use of potentially multi-word nicknames/handles/usernames in content published on the Web, (e.g. on sites like [http://flickr.com Flickr] and [http://consumating.com/ Consumating]), hCard has a mechanism for specifying a multi-word "fn" that is also a "nickname" without affecting any "n" sub-properties that are otherwise specified, and explicitly implying empty defaults for "n" sub-properties.

Similar to the [[hcard#Implied_.22nickname.22_Optimization|implied "nickname" optimization]], if the "fn" property and a "nickname" property have the exact same value (typically because they are set on the same element, e.g. <code>class="fn nickname"</code>), then

# The content of the "fn" is treated as a "nickname" property value.
# Parsers should handle the missing "n" property by implying empty values for all the "n" sub-properties.

== Implied FN from N ==
Since the "n" property is more detailed and structured than the "fn" property, and [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] have shown that very often what is specified for "n" sub-properties is also specified for the "fn" property, we could add the following implied "fn" optimization which would permit sites to only use "n" and its subproperties.

In addition, some sites don't have contiguous uninterrupted text that represents the desired "fn" value, and would much rather have the "fn" implied from "n" subproperties. E.g. "Citizen Space Citizens" on [[hcard-examples-in-wild]].

=== implied "fn" from "n" optimization ===
If an hCard has no "fn", yet has an "n" property with one or more subproperties, then the "fn" property value can be implied by concatenating the "n" subproperty values as follows, with a space between each subproperty value, and multiple subproperty instances.

* 'honorific-prefix'es (as found in document order)
* 'given-name'
* 'additional-name's (as found in document order)
* 'family-name'
* 'honorific-suffix'es (as found in document order)

== Implied N from its subproperties ==
Since the "n" subproperties are sufficiently uniquely named (that is, they are not used by any other hCard property), and "n" is one of the [[hcard-singular-properties]], it is possible to consider leaving out the "n" property itself fo the hCard, and simply directlly using the subproperties, as properties of the hCard.
* [http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/ Cognition] has supported this for ages.

=== implied "n" from its subproperties ===
If an hCard has no "fn" nor "n" properties, then the entire scope of the hCard is considered to be inside an implied "n" property.

E.g. this markup:
<pre><nowiki>

Tantek
Çelik

</nowiki></pre>

would be treated from a parsing perspective as:

<pre><nowiki>

Tantek
Çelik

</nowiki></pre>

Which, with the '''implied "fn" from "n" optimization''', would then be effectively treated as:

<pre><nowiki>

Tantek
Çelik

</nowiki></pre>

* a related request from the mailing list: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-September/010791.html

== Examples ==

* See [[hcard-examples]], which provides several illustrative instructive examples, as well as 1:1 hCard examples for each example in [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt RFC 2426].

=== Using RFC2806 with hCard ===

[http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2806.txt RFC 2806] defines the telephone scheme "tel:", "fax:" and "modem:" to handle phone communications with URIs in the same way, "mailto:" is defined for email. It's part of the list or registered schemes by IANA : [http://www.iana.org/assignments/uri-schemes Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) SCHEMES]

<pre><nowiki>
tel telephone [RFC2806]
fax fax [RFC2806]
modem modem [RFC2806]
</nowiki></pre>

It is practical to write your tel number like this.

<pre><nowiki>
<a class="tel" href="tel:+1-919-555-7878">+1-919-555-7878</a>
</nowiki></pre>

or even

<pre><nowiki>
<a class="tel" href="tel:+1-919-555-7878">Mr Smith's phone</a>
</nowiki></pre>

You can add support for "tel:" to your desktop and to your browser

* For Gnome, edit ~/.gnome/Gnome and add something to the URL Handlers section. (Dan Connolly uses this to get galeon to launch telnum from [http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/telagent/ telagent sources] for tel URIs)
* In Mozilla, [http://dizzy.mozdev.org/ Dizzy]
* In Internet Explorer, [http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/networking/pluggable/overview/overview.asp Asynchronous Pluggable Protocols]

On the CSS front… You could for example add automagically an icon. I have put the property !important for those who wants to add it to their own stylesheet in their browsers, so they know type of links when browsing.

<pre><nowiki>
a[href^="tel:"]:before {
content: '\260f ' !important;
padding-left: 20px !important; }

a[href^="mailto:"]:before {
content: '\2709 ' !important;
padding-left: 20px !important; }
</nowiki></pre>

== Encoding "modern" attributes ==

Since vCard was first established, various interactive communication technologies and addressing schemes have been widely adopted. Although there aren't specific properties for these technologies / addressing schemes, they can be captured as URLs or email addresses.

This has now been written up for the most part. See:

http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#New_Types_of_Contact_Info

Still to be addressed:

* iChat mac.com addresses, simply store "@mac.com" email addresses, e.g.
** <code><nowiki><a class="email" href="mailto:steve@mac.com">...</nowiki></code>
* MSN Instant Messenger, you can simple store "@hotmail.com" or "@msn.com" or "@passport.com" email addresses.
* Internet Relay Chat (IRC), use "irc:" URLs.

A suggestion relating to the rise of VoIP protocol (Skype, etc):

Should these protocols be marked up using the <code><nowiki></nowiki></code>. It seems logical that a means to communicate with another via voice should be marked up as a telephone address, rather than the currently suggested URL property.

== Auto-Discovery ==

See [[hcard-brainstorming-autodiscovery]]

== geo improvements ==
''See [[geo-brainstorming]]''

== Other use cases ==
Please add your suggestions!

hCard microformats could be used to:
*Calculate and display the subject's age "as of today".
*Calculate and display the subject's age at death (if a [[hcard-date-of-death|Date of Death]] is available)
*Generate a recurring iCal for a living subject's birthday
*Generate a recurring iCal for a dead subject's "anniversary of birth" (if a [[hcard-date-of-death|Date of Death]] is available)
*...

== Issues with vCard Applications ==
See [[vcard-implementations]].

== Open Questions ==

Q: since many of the components would be using CSS classes for encoding data, it is possible to MIX two different profiles. (e.g. hCard and XFN) There are no real constraints on where/how to enforce class names, these are based on the html profile, since it is difficult to associate the text within the attribute to a specific profile.

<pre><nowiki>
...
<a href="mailto:joe.smith@example.com" class="fn" rel="met">Joe Smith</a>
...
</nowiki></pre>

-- [http://suda.co.uk/ Brian Suda]

Q: Preserving White space? Should the transforming applications preserve extra white space characters? For example:
<pre><nowiki>
<a href="http://mywebsite.com/" class="fn n">
John
Q.
Public
</a>
</nowiki></pre>

When transformed into a vCard, the N property will pick apart the span tags and create the value for N correctly seperated by colons. The FN property will take a string and simply display it. There are two possible renderings for FN:
<pre><nowiki>
John Q. Public

John
Q.
Public
</nowiki></pre>

Either the white-space is preserved or it is not. Which should the transforming applications render?

-- [http://suda.co.uk/ Brian Suda]

A: The parsing application should follow the white space collapsing rules of the mime type it retrieves. I.e. if it retrieves a "text/html" document, it should do HTML white space collapsing.

-- [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek]

Many of the Questions and Answers are relevant to both ["hCal"] and hCard.

Q: Would it be appropriate to wrap the name of the vCard owner with <dfn/>? This may give the hCard some added semantic value in the XHTML document.
<pre><nowiki>



<a class="internet" href="mailto:jfriday@host.com">
<dfn>
Joe Friday
</dfn>
</a>

+1-919-555-7878
Area Administrator, Assistant


</nowiki></pre>
-- [http://www.ben-ward.co.uk/ Ben Ward]
* If the answer to the above Q is "yes", why not use the following?
<pre><nowiki>
<dfn class="fn">Joe Friday</dfn>
</nowiki></pre>
or
<pre><nowiki>

<dfn class="vcard">

<a class="internet" href="mailto:jfriday@host.com">
Joe Friday
</a>

+1-919-555-7878
Area Administrator, Assistant
</dfn>

</nowiki></pre>
This would mark the entire hcard as the "defining instance".

[[User:Bob Jonkman|Bob Jonkman]] 10:07, 13 Jul 2007 (PDT)

== Applications ==
Applications that are hCard aware or can convert hCard to vCard formats.

=== Copy hCards favelet(s) ===
* I think a Favelet would work nicely here. When you find a page that is hCard friendly, you click the favlet and you get yourself a vCard. This is done! See X2V in the implementations section of the [[hcard|hCard]] spec.

=== Distributed Commentor Icons ===

''The URL reffered to in this section is no longer available. The thoughts on using icons are however still relevant.'' [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:55, 23 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* See [http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/ using hCards in your blog] for an example of hCards used for comment authors (commentors). The system used there, "Gravatars", is a centralized site that serves commentor icons that requires login etc.

What if we gave each commentor the option of hosting their own icon?

A distributed commentor icon implementation could work like this:

# Given the URL of a commentor, look for an <code><address></code> element with classname of "vcard" at the commentor's URL. The <code><address></code> element is supposed to be the contact information for the page (see [[hcard-faq|hCard FAQ]] for more info), so this makes sense.
# Next, look for the first element inside that hcard that has a classname of "logo".
# Hopefully that element is an <code><img></code>, and if so, use its src to get the commentor's icon.
# Presto. You've got distributed commentor icons!

== Spam prevention ==
hCard uses <code>mailto:</code> links, and therefore
it automatically "inherits" the disadvantage of <code>mailto:</code> links:
These links can be easily detected by emails spiders (used by spammers).

Email addresses are picked up like any other link crawled by a search engine and trustworthy crawlers may be deterred from adding emphasis while indexing these links by including rel="nofollow" (See [[rel-nofollow]]). However, email addresses used for spam are crawled by email spiders which will likely ignore this attribute.

There are ways to prevent email address detection by simple email spiders, while
still retaining full compatibility with (X)HTML applications.
One common way is to "encode" the the "m" of "mail" and "@" with character entities, yet it's unwise to follow a convention of only encoding specific characters because the email spiders can pick up on this too:

Example of the original link:
<pre><nowiki>
<a class="email" href="mailto:john.smith@example.com">john.smith@example.com</a>
</nowiki></pre>

Example of the "encoded" link (with rel-nofollow added):
<pre><nowiki>
<a class="e&#109;ail" rel="nofollow" href="&#109;ailto:john.smith&#064;example.com">john.smith&#064;example.com</a>
</nowiki></pre>

Simple email spiders which do not do character entity decoding will therefore not be able to find your email address.

''Note:'' Perhaps there are or will be email spiders which can decode entities, so the this technique will only help with some (cheap) email spiders.
(See also: http://rbach.priv.at/Misc/2005/EmailSpiderTest)

=== Other prevention methods to consider ===
* Using server-side code to implement character entities randomly
* Displaying the address in a way thought to be only human readable (thus breaking the link):
** Using an image instead of text (could still be machine readable using OCR)
** Using human readable text that conveys the need for editing before use (eg PLEASE-NO-SPAM_name@example_NO-SPAM.com)
* Using javascript for client-side decryption of an encrypted address (requires javascript to be enabled)
* Pointing to an email form or other URL instead of an email address

== Tutorials ==
* How to hCard encode entries in Popular blog software.
* Good reasons to publish your hCard
** as a business, get people to put you in their address book so they'll find you later
** as a business with an email list, get people to add you (with email address) to their address book so that your email list works via whitelisting via the address book.

* [http://24ways.org/2006/styling-hcards-with-css Styling hCards with CSS] is a text on how to use CSS to make an improved presentation of an hCards contents.

== Parsing ==

See [[hcard-parsing-brainstorming]]

== Birthday Reminders ==
*hCard consumers could calculate the current age of hCard subjects, from the DoB. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 07:47, 20 Apr 2007 (PDT)
*for hCards with DoB, hCard consumers could generate and export a recurring hCalendar. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:06, 20 Apr 2007 (PDT)
**If/ when [[hcard-date-of-death|Date of Death]] is added to hCard, parsers could instead generate a recurring "death-anniversary" hCalendar. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:08, 20 Apr 2007 (PDT)

== Post vCard additions ==

Keeping hCard properties and values as a 1:1 representation of vCard properties and values has numerous benefits such as simplicity, stability, interoperability with the vast number of existing vCard applications etc.

However some have found vCard to be limiting in terms of the data/properties/fields they want to express in contact information. Some implementations use vCard extensions to express such information [citation needed].

This section is for documentation of such suggested additions. Empirical evidence of actual *real world* examples on the Web of people publishing this information would be a good step towards considering any such additions/extensions.

* '''altitude'''. From [[hcard-issues]].
**See [[geo-elevation-examples]]
* '''vat-number''' : for VAT numbers of companies, which are used a lot in Europe and they need to be published on Belgian publications (including websites).

* '''gender'''
** See [[vcard-suggestions#Gender]]

* '''date-of-death'''
** See [[hcard-date-of-death]]

Thus see (and add to): [[vcard-suggestions]]

Another path to consider is the development of another microformat which includes an hCard and then extends it with additional properties for a particular domain. In many ways [[hresume|hResume]] has already done this. Other related efforts:
* [[genealogy]]
* [[profile]]

Using hCard as a stable building block for additional microformats may seem more desirable than incrementally growing hCard itself.

Of course if vCard were extended itself, that may provide impetus to add such extensions to hCard in order to maintain the 1:1
representation of properties/values.

==Wikipedia's Persondata==
Wikipedia's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Persondata Persondata] aligns very closely with hCard, but has additional date and place of birth & death fields. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 13:02, 28 Jan 2007 (PST)

== TODO ==

* The [[hcard-profile]] needs verification and perhaps a URL for retrieving the actual XMDP, rather than as <pre> text on a wiki page.
* Complete translating the examples from the vCard spec into hCard, and place them on a separate hCard examples page.
* Create a "rich" but realistic hCard example, say for example for a salesperson, who wants to put a whole bunch of contact information on their website in order to be found/contacted easily.
* Provide examples of how to encode instant messaging (IM) accounts. Figure out what would the mailto: or aim: URL in hCard look like in vCard. And take a look at what vCard applications do today with IM addresses.
* Clarify contradictory copyright statements, per http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-July/010243.html

== CSS Styles ==
Not only can you create semantics with the hCard values, but you can add CSS styles to them as well. You are free to style the terms in any way you want, but here we can list a few ideas for how to style terms.

If you want to encode hCard data, but do NOT want to display it in the HTML code (WARNING: This is very much recommended AGAINST, and in general against the microformat principle of marking up visible data), then you can hide that tag in CSS with the following code:
<pre><nowiki>
Hidden Data
</nowiki></pre>
Transforming applications will still find the data and use it when converting hCards to vCards.

== Other Implementations/Ideas ==
* [http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/NOTE-vcard-rdf-20010222/ Representing vCard Objects in RDF/XML] This could allow conversion of vCard data from XHTML to RDF and from RDF to XHTML
* It would also be possible to convert XFN and hCard to FoaF.
* [http://microid.org/ MicroID in hCard]

== Accepted Suggestions ==

=== Encoding Company data as a Business Card (proposal) ===

( Accepted: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Organization_Contact_Info )

In the wild there are several hCards that do not currently validate because they are businesses that have omitted the "fn" property in favor of the "org" property.

Proposal: hCards representing a business or organization MUST set fn AND org to the same value. Parsers may then use this equivalence, if detected, to treat an hCard as the contact info for a business or organization rather than an individual.

Note that [http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations#organization_vs._individual Apple Address Book supports this semantic when importing vCards].

See the [http://technorati.com/about/contact.html Technorati Contact Info] for an example.

=== Implied "FN and N" Optimization (proposal) ===

Right now a parser first looks for an "n" element.

And then if no "n" is present, look for an "fn" element to use to imply an "n" element per the "implied n property" rules in the spec.

BACKGROUND:

Due to the prevalence of the use of "nicknames" or "handles" on the Web, in actual content published on the Web (e.g. authors of reviews), there has been a discussion about adding a "fn" shortcut to the "n" shortcut that used the "nickname" as a fallback.

PROPOSAL:

We should consider adding one more implied optimization after the steps documented above and that is:

If no "fn" is present either, then look for a "nickname" element to use to imply both the "fn", and the "n/given-name", leaving the "n/family-name" as empty.

This would enable "nickname" only hCards for denoting and individual on a website, which is quite common on blogs and reviews published on the Web.
* +1 [[User:Atamido|Atamido]]
* +1 [[User:ChrisMessina|ChrisMessina]] - note: multiple alternate nicknames should also be allowed
* +1 [[User:DimitriGlazkov|DimitriGlazkov]]

== Implied work tel ==

=== Problem ===

Some phone numbers are not always documented of type 'work'. The type 'work' is usually implied from context.

=== Examples in the wild ===

[[http://www.nvidia.com/page/contact_information.html NVidia contact information]]

Only 'Tel' is specified. The fact that it is of type 'work' can be assumed from the context: the name of an organization is present.

<pre>
NVIDIA CORPORATE OFFICE: 
2701 San Tomas Expressway 
Santa Clara, CA 95050 
Tel: 408-486-2000 

Fax: 408-486-2200 
...

</pre>

[[http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/369 Supermarketguru.com]]

<pre>


Phil Lempert: <a href="mailto:plempert@supermarketguru.com">plempert@supermarketguru.com</a> 

SupermarketGuru.com 
3015 Main Street, Suite 320 Santa Monica, California 90405 
Telephone: 323-860-3070


</pre>

Here only 'Telephone:' is specified, a FN is present ('Phil Lempert') but because an ORG is present ('SupermarketGuru.com'), it can be safely implied that '323-860-3070' is a tel or type work.

=== Proposal ===

If an ORG is present in a VCARD, a TEL with no TYPE has an implied TYPE 'work'

==== Comments ====
* Though it may be safe to make that assumption for the given example (and though it might have been wise to make this rule from the outset), we now can't know that it will alwyas be safe to do so, for all pre-existing hCards. Consider people whose organisation represents voluntary work, honorary roles and so forth. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 00:33, 8 Jan 2008 (PST)

== Rejected Suggestions ==

Suggestion: ''The use of class="url" on an <a> tag to represent an hCard URL property is redundant. By virtue of the <a> tag you know this is a URL.''

Rejected. This is a bad suggestion because although it appears to reduce redunancy and keep things cleaner, it also creates a few problems. Without explicitly noting that this is a URL then any <a> tags within a 'vcard' would be considered a URL, for example:
<pre><nowiki>

...
<ul class="categories">
<li><a href="http://w3c.org">W3C</a></li>
</ul>
...

</nowiki></pre>

There is no way to "turn-off" the encoding of the W3C URL, whereas if "url" needed to be explicitly listed in the class attribute list, then by NOT listing it you could effectively turn it off.

== References ==

=== Normative References ===
* [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt RFC 2426] vCard RFC
* [http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2397 RFC 2397] data URI RFC
* [http://gmpg.org/xmdp/ XMDP]

=== Informative References ===
* [http://www.imc.org/pdi/ Personal Data Interchange (PDI) at the Internet Mail Consortium]
* [http://tantek.com/log/2004/07.html#d27t1049 Markup language design notes]
* [http://tantek.com/log/2002/12.html#L20021216t2238 A Touch of Class]
* [http://www.icao.int/mrtd/download/technical.cfm ICAO - Machine Readable Travel Documents format]

== Related Pages ==

{{hcard-related-pages}}
* [[adr-poll]]

User:Donohoe

2008-08-07T02:20:20Z

Donohoe: updates to user page

== Overview ==
Michael Donohoe is a developer with [http://www.nytimes.com The New York Times].

He makes infrequent posts on the NYTimes [http://open.nytimes.com Open blog] and seems to talk about himself in the third person on his wiki user page.

As of August 2008 I am working on a new social project called TimesPeople. Currently integrating XFN, hCard and hAtom into these pages. ([http://timespeople.nytimes.com/view/user/37963625/1/ example])

My main interest is to implement various microformats across the nytimes.com site and see if any of our specific needs can help contribute to microformats going forward.
== Links / Reference ==
* [http://timespeople.nytimes.com/view/user/37963625/1/ TimesPeople user page] (v1)
* [http://open.nytimes.com Open] - Open source blog on nytimes.com
* [http://ifelse.org ifelse.org] - personal site w/ contact info

----
{{cc-public-domain-release}}

xfn-brainstorming

2008-08-07T02:11:35Z

Donohoe: /* possible inverse of fan terms */ changed opinion

<h1> XFN Brainstorming </h1>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]].  

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:

* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that @rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** ''follow-up'': XFN is the wrong place to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. Thus rel="kin" can be considered to be sufficient for now.
*** ''rel-kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.

<s>To date, no real world examples have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a theoretical need.</s>

*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandpa's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandfather's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandma's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandmother's website"]
*See also [[genealogy-examples]]

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:

I can trace my family back to
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">
William the conqueror.
</a>

In these cases it would be useful to have @rel="ancestor", and perhaps a corresponding @rel="descendant".
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* follow-up: rel="kin" can be considered to be sufficient for now.

<s>To date, no real world examples have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a theoretical need.</s>

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Wikipedia's page on Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Wikipeida page on Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother"
*See also [[genealogy-examples]]

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one the best so far, as it seems to represent the implied semantics the best. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
** +1 This seems strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my personal (and others') anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>

Tantek Çelik
Citizen Agency
advisor

</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above), <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor), <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate]. Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code>.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]

xfn-brainstorming

2008-08-06T02:55:04Z

Donohoe: /* possible inverse of fan terms */ comments

<h1> XFN Brainstorming </h1>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]].  

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:

* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that @rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** ''follow-up'': XFN is the wrong place to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. Thus rel="kin" can be considered to be sufficient for now.
*** ''rel-kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.

<s>To date, no real world examples have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a theoretical need.</s>

*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandpa's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandfather's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandma's website"]
*[http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 Google search for "my grandmother's website"]
*See also [[genealogy-examples]]

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:

I can trace my family back to
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">
William the conqueror.
</a>

In these cases it would be useful to have @rel="ancestor", and perhaps a corresponding @rel="descendant".
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* follow-up: rel="kin" can be considered to be sufficient for now.

<s>To date, no real world examples have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a theoretical need.</s>

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Wikipedia's page on Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Wikipeida page on Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother"
*See also [[genealogy-examples]]

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one the best so far, as it seems to represent the implied semantics the best. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
** +1 This seems strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** 0 What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)

==== rel-reader ====

For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>

Tantek Çelik
Citizen Agency
advisor

</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above), <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor), <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate]. Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code>.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]

User:Donohoe

2008-08-06T01:55:59Z

Donohoe: /* Overview */

User:Donohoe

2008-08-06T01:55:45Z

Donohoe:

== Overview ==

Michael Donohoe is a developer with [http://www.nytimes.com The New York Times].

He makes infrequent posts on the NYTimes [http://open.nytimes.com Open blog] and seems to talk about himself in the third person on his wiki user page.

As of August 2008 I am working on a new social project called TimesPeople. Currently integrating XFN, hCard and hAtom into these pages. ([http://timespeople.nytimes.com/view/user/37963625/1/ example])

My main interest is to implement various microformats across the nytimes.com site and see if any of our specific needs can help contribute to microformats going forward.

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User:Donohoe

2008-08-06T01:55:21Z

Donohoe: Initial profile addition

Michael Donohoe is a developer with [http://www.nytimes.com The New York Times].

He makes infrequent posts on the NYTimes [http://open.nytimes.com Open blog] and seems to talk about himself in the third person on his wiki user page.

As of August 2008 I am working on a new social project called TimesPeople. Currently integrating XFN, hCard and hAtom into these pages. ([http://timespeople.nytimes.com/view/user/37963625/1/ example])

My main interest is to implement various microformats across the nytimes.com site and see if any of our specific needs can help contribute to microformats going forward.

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{{cc-public-domain-release}}