recipe-brainstorming

2008-12-20T03:55:20Z

DrondArvar: lioupascnac4

relsitace
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.

<div id="Format-In-Progress">
==format-in-progress - #1 - september 2007==
</div>

For the sake of clarity the format-in-progress from september 2007 was moved to [[recipe-brainstorming-archive]]. [[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 14:12, 11. Nov 2008 (CET)

<div id="Format-In-Progress-10-2008">
==format-in-progress - #2 - october 2008==
</div>

===Introduction===

Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]].
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items.

Please note that Format-In-Progress sections are intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema. This Format-In-Progress was produced by [[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:29, 15. Oct 2008 (CET)

===Changelog===

This second Format-In-Progress reflects the discussions following the first one from september 2007 (see [[recipe-brainstorming-archive]]). It is not an entirely new format-in-progress proposal but rather an evolution from the september07-version and about 90% the same. A short overview of changes:
* made <code>author</code> and <code>published</code> plural
* added <code>ingredients</code> element
* made <code>ingredient</code> an optional subelement of <code>ingredients</code>
* modified quantity (and removed the element <code>quantity</code>) to improve compatability with [[measure]]
* deleted ingredient-<code>optionality</code>
* <code>method</code> changed to optional
* <code>preparation-time</code> changed to optionally multiple instances
* added <code>note</code> to <code>preparation-time</code> and made both <code>note</code>s hCard elements
* <code>preparation-time</code>
* added <code>nutrition</code>
* removed<code>rel-license</code> element, because it can't be scoped to one of several receipes on one page (see [[recipe-issues]])

===Root Class Name===

To be decided. Likely âhRecipeâ.

===Property List===

Class names <code>author</code>, <code>photo</code> and <code>note</code> are taken from [[hCard]], <code>published</code> used from [[hAtom]] and <code>item</code> from [[measure]].

* Title. <code>recipe-title</code>. required. text.
* Summary. <code>recipe-summary</code>. optional. text.
* Author. <code>author</code>. optional. 1 or more. [[hcard]].
* Date published. <code>published</code>. optional. 1 or more. [[datetime-design-pattern]].
* Photo(s). <code>photo</code>. optional. 1 or more. img or url. [[hcard].
* Ingredients. <code>ingredients</code>. required. text with optional valid HTML markup or 1 or more <code>ingredient</code> elements.
** Ingredient. <code>ingredient</code>. optional. 1 or more.
*** Quantity. <code>num</code>, <code>unit</code> and <code>item</code>. optional. [[measure]].
*** Note. <code>note</code>. optional. text. [[hcard].
* Method. <code>method</code>. optional. text with optional valid HTML markup.
* Yield. <code>yield</code>. optional. text.
* Preparation time. <code>preparation-time</code>. 1 or more, optional. (see [[ISO-31-1]] duration brainstorming)
** Note. <code>note</code>. optional. text. [[hcard].
* Tags. <code>tag</code>. optional. 1 or more. [[rel-tag]].
* Nutrition. <code>nutrition</code>. optional. 1 or more.
** Quantity. <code>num</code>, <code>unit</code> and <code>item</code>. optional. [[measure]].

===Field Details===

'''Title''': The title of the recipe.
* The element is identified by class name <code>recipe-title</code>.
* A Recipe {{must}} have a <code>recipe-title</code>

'''Summary''': The summary provides a short introduction or an accompanying statement about the recipe.
* The element is identified by class name <code>recipe-summary</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} have a <code>recipe-summary</code>.

'''Author''': Author the person who authored the recipe.
* The element is identified by class name <code>author</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include an <code>author</code>.
* The contents of the element {{must}} include a valid [[hCard]].

'''Date published''': The date the recipe was published.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>published</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include a <code>published</code> date.
* {{should}} (?) use the [[datetime-design-pattern]] to encode the published datetime.

'''Photo''': Accompanying image.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>photo</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include one or more photo elements.
* The element {{should}} use an <code><img></code> element.
* The element {{may}} use any other element that contains a URL, such as <code><a></code> or <code><object></code>, but it is not recommended.
* The contents of the element {{must}} follow the conventions outlined in [[hCard]].

'''Ingredients''': Describes the ingredients used in the recipe.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>ingredients</code>.
* A Recipe {{must}} include one <code>ingredients</code> element.
* The field {{may}} include valid HTML markup (e.g. paragraphs).
* The element {{may}} include 1 or more <code>ingredient</code> elements.

'''Ingredient''': Describes one ingredient used in the recipe.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>ingredient</code>.
* It {{must}} only occur within an <code>ingredients</code> element.
* A Recipe {{may}} have one or more <code>ingredient</code>s.
* The element {{may}} include the fields <code>num</code>, <code>unit</code> and <code>item</code> following [[measure]].
* The element {{may}} include a <code>note</code>.

'''Note''': A note concerning an Ingredient or a Preparation Time element (for element Preparation Time see below).
* The element is identified by the class name <code>note</code>.
* Ingredients and Preparation Time elements {{may}} include a <code>note</code>.
* The contents of the element {{must}} follow the conventions outlined in [[hCard]].

'''Method''': The method of the recipe.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>method</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include a <code>method</code>.
* The field {{may}} include valid HTML markup (e.g. paragraphs).

'''Yield''': Specifies the quantity produced by the recipe.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>yield</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include a <code>yield</code>.

'''Preparation Time''': The time it takes to prepare the meal described by the recipe.
* The element is identified by the class name <code>preparation-time</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include one or more <code>preparation-time</code>s.
* Each Preparation Time element {{may}} include a <code>note</code>, to specify their respective purpose.

'''Nutrition''':
* The element is identified by class name <code>nutrition</code>.
* A Recipe {{may}} include one or more <code>nutrition</code> elements.
* The element {{may}} include the fields <code>num</code>, <code>unit</code> and <code>item</code> following [[measure]].

===Example===

<pre><nowiki><div class="hrecipe">
Pommes Frites

Pommes frites originate in outer space. They are served hot. 
This recipe is only an example. Don't try this at home!

Thomas Loertsch
Published <abbr class="published" title="2008-10-14T10:05:37-01:00">14. Oct 2008</abbr>
<img src="/img/pommes.png" class="photo" width="100" height="100" alt="Pommes Frites"/>

500
gramme
potatoes,
hard cooking.

<ul class="method">
<li>First wash the potatoes.</li>
<li>Then slice and dice them and put them in boiling fat.</li>
<li>After a few minutes take them out again.</li>
</ul>
Enough for 12 children.
Preparation time is approximately
90
<abbr class="unit" title="minutes">min</abbr>.

Add
5
<abbr class="unit" title="minutes" >min</abbr>
for preparing the Ketchup.

This recipe is <a href="http://www.eut.de/tags/difficulty/easy" rel="tag">easy</a> and <a href="http://www.eut.de/tags/tastyness/delicious" rel="tag">delicious</a>.

Pommes Frites have more than
1000
Joule
Energy.

</div>
</nowiki></pre>

==brainstorming==
===RecipeML-based Brainstorm===
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:
*Recipe_Title
*Summary Description (one liner)
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|Î±]]
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]]
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)
*Preparation Time (overall time)
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|Î±]]
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)
**Source (Book Title etc)
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)
**Rights (Copyright or other)
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)
**Steps (optional)
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|Î±]]
***Many recipes associate ingredients with specific steps of a multi-step method; if methods are broken out into steps, then the format should support this association whether the complete ingredient list is up front or the ingredient list is itself broken out per step. [[User:Quixote|Ben Curtis]]
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]

===Cookcamp brainstorming===
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]

'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...

===Additional Suggestions===
*Steps - As cited above but to include estimated time per step. Include the type of step (prep, preheat, cook, bake, mix, saute, etc) as well as the ingredients involved. This would be very useful when trying to time a meal so all the food appears together.
**I think this is being to specific. Are there any real world examples where this would be useful? --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 08:41, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]
** -1. Too diverse in the wild, better handled bytags (at least in the first version). same for suitablility.
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|EstÃªvÃ£o Samuel ProcÃ³pio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)
** This could be solved by using a xoxo list and ignoring list items that don't include a class="name". Example:<pre><nowiki>
<ul class="ingredients">
<li>Booze
<ul>
<li>1 part Rum</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Mixer
<li>1 part Cola</li>
<li>1 part Lime juice</li>
</li>
</ul></nowiki></pre> --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 13:09, 18 Apr 2008 (PDT)
**We can't have a dependency on XOXO or any list mark-up for ingredients. That's too restrictive on publishing patterns, preventing patterns like: <pre><nowiki>
Take a handful
of spinach and fry it</nowiki></pre> --[[User:BenWard|BenWard]] 13:20, 18 Apr 2008 (PDT)
**You're right. I think grouping would introduce too many new elements (class="group", class="group-title") considering how relatively uncommon this is. --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 13:51, 23 Apr 2008 (PDT)

*Method > Steps - or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.
** -1. Outside 80/20. POSH is good enough for this purpose. --[[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:04, 01 Oct 2008 (CET)
* Number of dishes or similar - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)
* Suitable for occasions - what occasions are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)
** Tags could be used for both suitability and category.

*Under what terms is the recipe licensed? Microformat: rel="license". Often a page is in the creative commons but the page author has taken some text from a copyrighted page and in theory re-published the work in violation to the terms of use, adding a rel="license" to each recipe on the page? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:55, 04 Feb 2008 (GMT)

*Single foodstuffs - If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:
<pre><nowiki>
I like to eat cheese for supper.
</nowiki></pre>
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):
<pre><nowiki>
I like to eat cheese for supper.
</nowiki></pre>
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)
**But that's not really a recipe, is it? And what would the purpose of knowing that cheese is an ingredient be? --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 12:46, 18 Apr 2008 (PDT)
** -1. Makes no sense to me either --[[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:29, 01 Oct 2008 (CET)

*Menus - With the addition of a "price" field, and perhaps one or two others, and again making "method" optional, this microformat can also be used for menus. See [[recipe-examples#Menus|menu examples]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 02:39, 19 Feb 2008 (PST)
**I would consider this out of scope (which is to produce an as-simple-as-possible microformat "for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items" - [[recipe-brainstorming#Introduction | introduction]]) --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 13:39, 23 Apr 2008 (PDT)

===Quantity===
There are a lot of units typically used in recipes that do not make much sense in most other cases and therefor most likely will never make it into a 80/20-aware measure-microformat. This is a deliberatly short list:
* cup
* leave
* pinch
* tablespoonful
* teaspoonful
* lacing
* tie (??? my english is really leaving me here, hope you get the idea)
<code>note</code> can be used to indicate more subtle differentiation (like a "big spoonful", "some leaves" etc). I think this list is both usefully short and complete. The following measures:
* weight (gram)
* volume (litre)
* length (metre)
can be taken from the measure microformat. I guess measure is already stable enough that it's save to use these terms "experimentally". The measure-element should be optional. That way nobody is forced to select a value from it - it's just a help to facilitate interoperability. --[[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:45, 01 Oct 2008 (CET)

=== Proposed Optimisations ===

====Item====
Can we have this optimisation?... if no "item" is found, the entire ingredient is taken to be the item. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]

Example:
<pre><nowiki>salt</nowiki></pre>
is a shorthand for:
<pre><nowiki>salt</nowiki></pre>
* +1. That and the Proposed Ingredient List Optimisation seem to be very pragmatic proposals. --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 14:40, 14 Jul 2008 (PDT)
* -1. I'm not convinced that it's wise to introduce variations in the syntax for the singlemost important element (beside the title). Also the case seems very rare to me. Can you give some examples? --[[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:07, 01 Oct 2008 (CET)

====Ingredient List====

[[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 03:42, 23 Mar 2008 (PDT):

If class="ingredients" (note: plural) is found on an element, class="ingredient" (note: singular) is automatically implied on all its children.

<pre><nowiki><ul class="ingredients">
<li>3 eggs</li>
<li>6 oz self-raising flour</li>
<li>6 oz caster sugar</li>
<li>6 oz butter</li>
<li>1 tsp vanilla essence</li>
</ul></nowiki></pre>

is a shorthand for:

<pre><nowiki><ul class="ingredients">
<li class="ingredient">3 eggs</li>
<li class="ingredient">6 oz self-raising flour</li>
<li class="ingredient">6 oz caster sugar</li>
<li class="ingredient">6 oz butter</li>
<li class="ingredient">1 tsp vanilla essence</li>
</ul></nowiki></pre>

* I agree. This would save a lot of space, especially combined with the proposed hmeasure [http://microformats.org/wiki/measure#hmeasure minimisation technique]. --[[User:Yde|Yde]] 12:57, 18 Apr 2008 (PDT)
* Do we have <code>ingredients</code> (plural) as an element? Doesn't that open a whole can of list-issues? --[[User:ThomasLoertsch|ThomasLoertsch]] 15:37, 01 Oct 2008 (CET)

==issues==
Issues have been moved to a seperate [[recipe-issues|recipe-issues ]] page.

==implementations==
===Cognition===
As of September 2008, [http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/ Cognition] has experimental support for this format. ([http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/uf-plus.html#hrecipe Details of support].) Recipes may be exported in [[recipe-formats#RecipeBook_XML|RecipeBook XML]] format or RDF.

==examples in the wild==

'''Wild Mushroom, Pancetta & Truffle Risotto''' by Toby Inkster
* [http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/10/23/mushroom-risotto/ Marked up as hRecipe] using the September 2007 draft format
* [http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/recipebook/tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/10/23/mushroom-risotto/ RecipeBook XML] output from Cognition.
* [http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/rdf-xml/tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/10/23/mushroom-risotto/ RDF/XML] and [http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/turtle/tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/10/23/mushroom-risotto/ Turtle] output from Cognition.

== related pages ==
* [[recipe]]
* [[recipe-feedback]]
* [[recipe-examples]]
* [[recipe-brainstorming-archive]]
* [[recipe-formats]]
* [[recipe-issues]]
* [[recipe-hrecipe2rdf]]

Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

recipe-brainstorming