Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

food

2015-08-20T16:33:23Z

Elf Pavlik: we also produce food, not only consume

{{stub}}

Per [[process]] this page is for developing a microformat to publish information about food, in general, stuff people consume or produce. Including drinks. Food seemed to be a sufficiently inclusive working term for that.
* [[food-examples]]
* [[food-formats]]
* [[food-brainstorming]]

== See Also ==
* [[plant]]

resume-examples

2015-06-19T12:04:33Z

Elf Pavlik: /* Related Pages */ removed spam

<h1> Resume Examples </h1>

This space is for collecting and doing a simple analysis of resumes found on the WWW as part of the [[process]] in the development of a [[resume]] microformat. See the [[hresume|hResume]] draft.

__TOC__

== Resume Styles ==

In typical human discussion, when people refer to "resume formats" they mean how you organize and layout your resume for human consumption. However that term is ambiguous as could also refer to the data format of the resume (as it does on microformats.org). Thus the human organization/layout aspect of a resume we label the '''resume style''', and reserve the meaning of ''resume format'' for resume *data* format. For resume data format research, see [[resume-formats]].

In discussion with the SimplyHired guys, they noted that they have seen two general resume styles which cover the majority of cases.

Remember, in this discussion we want to try and cover the generalities of 80-90% of human resume styles (conventions for how people publish, whether on the web or paper).

Also, this page is for documentation and analysis of current examples of resumes on the web, and description of common resume formats, only. For analysis and ideas, see [[resume-brainstorming]].

=== other resume styles ===

* see [http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-636,subcat-JOB.html Choosing a resume format] for a basic overview of Reverse Chronological format (RC), Functional format, Hybrid format, Accomplishment format, Targeted format, Linear format, Professional format, Keyword format, Academic Curriculum Vitae (CV), International Curriculum Vitae format, and Portfolio format.

== Resumes from the wild ==

=== Tantek Çelik ===
* [http://tantek.com/projects/resume.html Tantek Çelik] (needs updating, this is over two years out of date)

==== Summary ====

Tantek has a summary list at the top:
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<ul class="quals">
<li>
Manager & technical leader (10 years). Led and set direction for teams of up to 12.
</li>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Employment ====

Tantek then lists his employment history:
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Employment & Products</h2>
<ol class="experience">
<li class="job" id="technorati">
<h3><span class="dates">2004 - present</span><a href="http://www.technorati.com" class="company">Technorati</a>,
<a href="http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&addr=665+3rd+St&csz=San+Francisco+CA+94107"
class="location">San Francisco, CA</a></h3>
<h4><span class="dates">2004 July - present</span>
<span class="jobtitle">Senior Technologist.</span></h4>
Investigate and define new standards and new technologies companywide. Lead adoption of and implementation of valid
semantic XHTML and CSS across all web sites. A primary contributor to the design, development, and launch of
<a href="http://politics.technorati.com">politics.technorati.com</a> "Election Watch 2004" site in <em>13 days</em>.
<div class="completed">
<h5>Websites Developed and Launched</h5>
<ul class="websites">
<li><a href="http://www.technorati.com/">Technorati main site</a> (valid XHTML+CSS green redesign, XHTML strict
update)</li>
<li><a href="http://politics.technorati.com/">Election Watch 2004</a> (initial valid XHTML+CSS release, XHTML
strict update with new Attention Index, Charts features)</li>
</ul>
</div>
</li>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

The implied scheme seems to be (in CSS selectors):

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
ol.experience
ol.experience li.job
ol.experience li.job .dates
ol.experience li.job .company
ol.experience li.job .jobtitle
ol.experience li.job .completed
ol.experience li.job .products
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

The set of .jobtitle, .completed and .products is repeated for cases where he had more than one position at a company.

==== patents ====
Tantek also has a section on patents:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="patents" id="patents">
<h2><abbr title="United States">US</abbr> Patents</h2>
<div class="issued">
<h3 class="sidelabel">Issued(6):</h3>
<ol>
<li id="PatNo5752056" value="5752056">
<h4>
<a href="http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2F
srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,752,056&OS=&RS=">
System for binding document parts and handlers by fidelity of parts or by automatic
translation of parts</a></h4>
<a class="altlink" href="http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05752056__">(delphion US05752056)</a>
<a class="inventor">[sole inventor]</a></li>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

I'm not going to dig into this, because I already doubt it will be common enough for inclusion. --[[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]] 13:33, 18 Jan 2006 (PST)

==== Publications ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="publications" id="publications">
<h2>Publications & Presentations</h2>

<h3 id="recs">Recommendations and Candidate Recommendations (CRs)</h3>
<ol>

<li>Çelik T.
"<a class="title" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-ui">CSS3 Basic User Interface Module</a>"
<a class="publisher" href="http://w3.org/TR">W3C Technical Reports and Publications</a>
&lt;<a class="URL" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/CR-css3-ui-20040511">http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/CR-css3-ui-20040511</a>&gt;
(2004)
</li>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Definite material for citation microformat work. Need analysis in that context. --[[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]] 13:33, 18 Jan 2006 (PST)

==== presentations ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h3 id="presentations">Invited Presentations</h3>
<ol>
<li>Marks K, Çelik T.
"<a class="title" href="http://sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/CalendarEvent.aspx?CID=1524"> Semantic XHTML:
Can your website be your API? - Using semantic XHTML to show what you mean</a>",
<a class="publisher" href="http://sdforum.org/"><abbr title="Software Development Forum">SD Forum</abbr></a>
<a class="event" href="http://www.sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/Level1.aspx?pid=10117&sid=7">Web Services
<abbr title="Special Interest Group">SIG</abbr></a>,
<span class="location">eBay's Silicon Valley Conference Center 2161 North First Street San Jose, CA 95131</span>
(28 September 2004)
</li>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Tantek has a list of presentations, which includes presenters' names, event URL, publisher (seems to be used
like 'organizer'), the event (ie, conference, workshop) URL and name, location and date.

==== Education ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="education">
<h2>Education</h2>
<ol>
<li class="school">
<h3><span class="dates">20 June 2001</span><a href="http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/"
class="institution">Edward Tufte</a></h3>
<ul class="courses">
<li><a href="http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/courses">Presenting Data and Information</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
....
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Tantek lists his education, including 'dates', a list of 'courses' (which includes name and optional URL) and list of degrees.

==== Awards ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="awards" id="awards">
<h2>Awards</h2>
<ol>
<li><span class="dates">2004</span>
<a href="http://2004.sxsw.com/interactive">SXSW interactive conference</a>,

<a href="http://2004.sxsw.com/interactive/panels/ratings04/">Top rated moderator (4.70 out of possible 5.0)</a>.</li>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

List with dates, event name, url and award name.

==== Interests ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="interests">
<h2>Other Interests</h2>
<ul>
<li>Alternative transport: skate, bicycle, motorcycle. Run? Only
<a href="http://www.asylumsfx.com/movies/belly.mov" target="m">when chased</a>.</li>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Affiliations ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Member of</h2>
<ul><li><a href="http://www.cpsr.org">Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (<abbr>CPSR</abbr>)</a> (life),</li>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

List of memberships/affiliations, each with URL and name.

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

The overall implied schema, as evidenced by this example.

{|
! Field name !! description
|-
| summary || a list of qualifications and competencies
|-
| employment || a list of jobs, each including dates, company, job title, completed, products
|-
| patents || a list of patents- pending and granted with descriptions, a URL, list of inventors
|-
| publications || a list of writings, each including author(s), title, url and published year
|-
| presentations || a list of invited presentations, each including presenters names, the presentation's title, the occassion/event and location
|-
| education || a list, each item including the date (range), the institution and a list of courses, with a URLs and names
|-
| awards || a list of awards, each with name, url and date
|-
| interests || a list of personal interests
|-
| affiliations || a list of affiliations, each with organization name, url and association type
|}

=== Dan Connolly ===
[http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/misc/vita Dan Connolly] (needs elaboration for MIT purposes; has been GRDDL'd to some extent)

==== Affilitations ====
For affiliations, Dan has:
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="affiliation">
<em class="position">Research Scientist</em><br />
<b class="org">MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (<a rel="aff"
href="http://www.csail.mit.edu/">CSAIL</a>)</b>
</div>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Implied schema:
{|
! css selector !! semantics
|-
| div.affiliation || wrapper
|-
| div.affiliation em.position || the job position/title
|-
| div.affiliation b.org || the organization with which he is affiliated
|-
| div.affiliation b.org a[rel="aff"] || href is URL of the organization and textnode is an abbreviation of the organization name
|}

==== Contact ====
For contact info:
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="contact">
<span class='street'>200 Technology Square</span>
<span class='city'>Cambridge</span>, <span class='st'>MA</span>
<span class="zip">02139</span><br />
<code class='homePageAddr'>http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/</code>
</div>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Dan has a series of <div>'s, (should be a list, no?), each with this implied schema:

{|
! css selector !! semantics
|-
| div.contact || wrapper
|-
| div.contact span.street || hcard:street-address?
|-
| div.contact span.city || hcard:locality ?
|-
| div.contact span.st || hcard:region ?
|-
| div.contact span.zip || hcard:postal-code ?
|-
| div.contact homePageAddr || hcard:url ?
|}

==== Education ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Education</h2>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>
...followed by more affiliation <code>div</code>'s (see above).

Under his education entry, he has a list of what appear to be honors/awards:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<ul>
<li>National Merit Scholar</li>
<li>Natural Sciences <a
href="http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/cline/dsbrochure.html">Dean's
Scholar</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.arlut.utexas.edu/">Applied Research
Laboratories</a> Scholarship</li>
</ul>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Publications ====

Publications section:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Selected Publications</h2>
<ul>
<li>Berners-Lee, Connolly, Swick, <a href="/1999/04/WebData"><cite>Web
Architecture: Describing and Exchanging Data</cite></a> (World Wide Web
Consortium Note, 1999)</li>
<li><dl>
<dt>Connolly, <a
href="http://helix.nature.com/webmatters/xml.html"><cite>The XML
Revolution</cite></a> Nature's <a
href="http://helix.nature.com/webmatters/">Web Matters</a>, Oct 1998<br
/>
</dt>
</dl>
</li>
....
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

This list of publications has authors, URL and title of the work.

==== Professional Experience ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div>
<h2>Professional Experience</h2>
<ul>
<li>Domain Lead, W3C Architecture Domain, 1996-1998</li>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A list of items, each with job title, the organization and a date range.

==== Appearance and Awards ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div>
<h2>Selected Appearances and Awards</h2>
<ul>
<li><a
href="http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/printhigh/120897/top25.html"><cite>The
Top 25 Unsung Heroes Of The Net</cite></a> by <a
href="http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/">Inter@ctive Week</a> 1997</li>
....
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A list, each item with URL, title and publication/event.

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

The implied schema of Dan's resume seems to be:

{|
! field !! description
|-
| affiliations || a list of affiliations, current and past, each with organization info
|-
| contact info || current contact info including mailing address and URL
|-
| education || a list of affiliations, like above, then a list of honors/awards
|-
| publications || a list of citations
|-
| professional experience || a list of: title, time-frame, organization
|-
| appearances and awards || a list of events
|}

=== Mark Pilgrim ===
* http://diveintomark.org/about/resume/

==== Contact ====

Mark uses an [[hCard]] to give contact info:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div class="vcard">
<h1 class="fn">Mark Pilgrim</h1>
<address class="adr">
<span class="locality">Apex</span>, <span class="region">NC</span> <br />
<a class="email" href="pilgrim@gmail.com">pilgrim@gmail.com</a> <br />
<em>other contact information available upon request</em>
</address>
</div>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Status ====

Mark declares his current work/job seeking status:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Status</h2>
<p>seeking full-time employment in the Raleigh, NC area (telecommuting OK)</p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Publications ====

A list of publications:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Publications</h2>
<ul>
<li><cite>Greasemonkey Hacks</cite> – 2005, O'Reilly Media.</li>
<li><cite>Dive Into Python</cite> – 2004, Apress. Also available for free online
at <samp><a href="http://diveintopython.org/">diveintopython.org</a></samp>.
The book was written in DocBook XML and transformed into HTML, PDF, Word, Windows
Help, and plain text with XSL stylesheets. It has been translated into six languages.</li>
<li>Columns on <cite>XML.com</cite> – 2002-2004, O'Reilly Media. Full list at
<samp><a href="http://xml.com/pub/at/25">xml.com/pub/at/25</a></samp></li>
</ul>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Projects/Publications ====

More publications and open source projects:

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Open Source and<br />
Self-Publications</h2>
<ul>
<li><cite>Universal Feed Parser</cite> – <samp><a href="http://feedparser.org/">
feedparser.org</a></samp> – parse RSS and Atom feeds in Python</li>
<li><cite>Feed Validator</cite> – <samp><a href="http://feedvalidator.org/">
feedvalidator.org</a></samp> – validate RSS and Atom feeds</li>
<li><cite>Dive Into Greasemonkey</cite> – <samp><a href="http://diveintogreasemonkey.org/">
diveintogreasemonkey.org</a></samp> – a book on remixing web sites with JavaScript</li>
<li><cite>Dive Into Accessibility</cite> – <samp><a href="http://diveintoaccessibility.org/">
diveintoaccessibility.org</a></samp> – a book on web accessibility techniques</li>
<li>Python web services libraries – <samp><a href="http://diveintomark.org/projects/">
diveintomark.org/projects</a></samp></li>
<li>Screencasts (video tutorials) – <samp><a href="http://howto.diveintomark.org/">
howto.diveintomark.org</a></samp></li>
</ul>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Professional Experience ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Professional Experience</h2>

<div class="employer">
<h3>March 2004 – present, accessibility architect at IBM</h3>
<ul>
<li>Implemented advanced web accessibility in AJAX applications using Firefox 1.5 and
WindowEyes screenreader. Co-wrote best practices guidelines for these techniques.</li>
<li>Wrote developer guidelines for creating accessible applications and custom graphical
controls in SWT-based Eclipse applications.</li>
<li>Designed accessibility API for OpenOffice.org-based office suite. Coordinated with
Freedom Scientific (assistive technology vendor) and development team to ensure interoperability.</li>
</ul>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Several <code><div></code>'s of <code>class="employer"</code>, each with timeframes and lists of accomplishments.

==== Education ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Education</h2>
<h3>June 1995, Earlham College</h3>
<p>BA of philosophy, 3.8 GPA</p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Overall implied schema ====
{|
! field !! description
|-
|contact || current contact info, already an [[hcard]]
|-
|status || text describing work availability
|-
|publications || list of citations
|-
|projects/ Self-Publications || a list of projects (w/ URLs) and books published online
|-
|professional Experience || a list of jobs, each with timeframes and accomplishments
|-
|education || a list of: school, graduation date, degree and GPA
|}

=== Eran Globen ===
http://hellonline.com/resume.html

==== Objective ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Objective</h2>

<p>Pursuing a hands-on...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Summary ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Summary</h2>

<p>Software engineer with
over 7 years experience in all...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Professional Experience ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Professional Experience</h2>

<b>2001-Present: limbo Technologies</b><br>
<b>Chief Technology Officer</b>
<br>
<p>Provided services to several companies on various projects in several fields
including scaling of web server farms, security planning and auditing and
updating ASP based applications to ASP.NET technology.</p>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Appears to be a list of:

* time range
* company
* job title
* description

==== Education/ Military ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Education and Military Service</h2>

<b>Tel Aviv Univeristy </b><br>
<b>Computer Science </b> <br>
<p>Graduated with Bachelor's Degree (BSc.) </p>

<b>Israeli Defense Force </b><br>

<b>Army Intelligence Core </b><br>
<p>Honorable Discharge in 1996 for one full standard term of Isreali Military Service. </p>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

List including organization (school/military), degee.

==== Interests ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2>Related Knowledge and Interests</h2>

<p><b>Platforms: </b> Administrative knowledge of Window NT through
Server2003. Working knowledge of Linux 2.2.19 to current. </p>

<p><b>Database:</b> MS-SQL Server 6.5-2k nearing DBA level, MS-Access, working knowledge of Oracle Database Systems.</p>

<p><b>Languages: </b> VB, VBScript, Java, C, C++, C#, (T-)SQL, WML, XML, and Perl. </p>

<p><b>Technologies: </b> ADO, ASP, ASP.NET, COM, WAP, Client/Server; Expansive knowledge
of networking, specifically TCP/IP, with a strong interest in systems and
network security </p>

<p><b>Current Studies and Interests: </b>
Expansive knowledge of networking, specifically
TCP/IP, with a strong interest in systems and network security. Also interested
in wireless, including cellular and Ethernet based internet technologies including
Location Based Services and Wireless Gaming. </p>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A collection of interests grouped by category.

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

{|
! field !! summary
|-
|objective || text describing career goals
|-
|summary || an overview of qualifications
|-
|professional Experience || list of employment, each as an event
|-
|education/ Military || list of education and military service, each with title/degree, org and timeframe
|-
|interests || text describing current interests
|}

=== Tara Hunt ===
http://horsepigcow.com/tararesume.htm

==== Contact Info ====
(markup simplified to protect the guilty --[[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]] 15:38, 19 Jan 2006 (PST))
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<div align="left">
<p><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">762 Adelaide West, Toronto,
ON M6J 1B1<br>
e. <a href="mailto:tara@roguestrategies.com">tara@roguestrategies.com</a>
w. <a href="http://www.roguestrategies.com" target="_blank">www.roguestrategies.com</a><br>
c. 416-837-8972 h. 416-703-5391</font><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></p>

</div>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Summary ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<td><font ...>We
live in the world of uber-savvy consumers and never-ceasing media inundation.
It is simple to have a market presence, but nearly impossible to make a
market connection. These connections are what today's entrepreneur requires
to survive. Creating authentic bonds is at the core of every one of my strategies.
This is marketing uncommon.</font></td>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Qualifications ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font ...>I AM QUALIFIED</font>
<font ...>I have experience in each of the following areas:</font></p>
...
<ul ...>
<li><font ...>e-Marketing (e-Content Development)<br></font>
<li><font ...>CMS (Content Management)</font>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Education ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font ...><font ...>I AM EDUCATED</font><br>
Bachelor of Arts (Communications & Culture) - University of Calgary 1994-1999</font></p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Qualifications?/Experience ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font...>I AM VERSATILE<br></font>
<font ...><b>Computer Programs:</b>
Microsoft CMS, Adobe Photoshop CS, Illustrator CS, Acrobat 6, Macromedia Flash
MX, Dreamweaver 4, Fireworks 4, HTML, DHTML, XML, Javascript, CSS, Microsoft
Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, FrontPage, Access, Project, CMS - Mac &
PC platforms.</font></p>
<p><font ...><b>Public Speaking Experience:</b>
Delivered academic papers, developed and presented a self-branding seminar,
and enjoy networking and speaking to groups of people.</font></p>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Portfolio ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
Designed recently:
...
<li><font ...><a href="http://www.joestiff.com" target="_blank">www.joestiff.com</a><br>
...
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Professional Experience ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font ...>I AM A PROFESSIONAL<br></font>
<font ...><b>HR PROFESSIONALS ASSOCIATION OF ONTARIO 2003 </b>- current<br>
New Media Manager (www.hrpao.org)</font></p>
<p><font ...>SKILLS USED: New media management,
digital marketing, brand development, strategic planning, budgeting, project
management, customer relationship management, market research, trend analysis,
copywriting/editing, presentation development & delivery, web design</font></p>
<p><font ...>At HRPAO, I: </font>
<ul type="square">
<li><font ...>pilot and manage a major
Content Management System (CMS) changeover/upgrade<br>
</font>
...
</ul>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Affiliations ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b>CURRENT PROFESSIONAL
AFFILIATIONS</b><br>
Canadian Marketing Association (CMA)<br>
Second Wind Network<br>
Creative Class 100 - www.creativeclass.org</font></p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== publications ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<p><font ....><b>RECENTLY PUBLISHED </b></font> <br>
<font ....><i>Business in the Blogosphere: Conference & Corporate Blogging as a Marketing Tool</i><br>
Marketing Watchdog Journal, May 2005</font>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

{|
! field !! summary
|-
|contact info || contact info - address, email, url
|-
|summary || summary of qualification
|-
|qualifications || list of qualification
|-
|education || list of education events, includes school, timeframe, school location
|-
|qualifications?/Experience || list of skills and tools
|-
|portfolio || list of URLs and titles
|-
|professional Experience || a list of job events
|-
|affiliations || a list of URL/name of organization
|-
|publications || a list of citations
|}

=== Casey Conroy ===
http://caseyconroy.com/a_resume.html

==== Professional Experience ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE</b><br />

GRAPHIC DESIGNER, Webster University<br />
August 2004–present<br />
Responsible for the design and production of one- two- and four-color printed and interactive publications.
Also responsible for vendor and account management. All clients are internal. <br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Includes: Job title, Organization, start and end time and a summary.

==== Education ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>EDUCATION</b><br />
Missouri State University<br />
BFA in Design,<i> magna cum laude</i>, December 2001<br />
Dual Emphasis: Graphic Design and Illustration<br /><br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Includes: school name, degree recieved, honors, graduation date and a summary of studies

==== Professional Skills ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>PROFESSIONAL SKILLS</b> <i>(Macintosh Platform)</i><br />
ADOBE: Illustrator, ImageReady, InDesign, Photoshop, Streamline<br />
MACROMEDIA: Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash, FreeHand <br />
MICROSOFT: Excel, PowerPoint, Word<br />
OTHER: BBEdit, QuarkXPress<br />
PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES: HTML, CSS<br /><br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A list of skills and tools.

==== Published Work ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>PUBLISHED WORK </b><br />
<i>CMYK</i> magazine, issue #19, 2002, <i>Design Annual</i><br />
<i>Print</i> magazine, September/October, 2002, <i>Continental Shift</i><br /><br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A list of publications, with publication information.

==== Exhibitions ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>EXHIBITIONS</b><br />
AIGA Design Show Nine, Saint Louis: Fall 2002<br />
University & College Designers Association, British Columbia: Spring 2001<br /><br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Memberships ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<b>MEMBERSHIPS</b><br />
American Institute of Graphic Arts<br /><br /><br />
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

A list of organizations in which he's a member.

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

{|
! field !! description
|-
| professional Experience || a list including title, organization, timeframe and a description
|-
| education || a list including organization (school), degree, honors, graduation date and area of study
|-
| professional Skills || an outline of skills/tools broken down by general categories
|-
| published Work || a list of citations
|-
| exhibitions || a list of events
|-
| memberships || a list of organizations
|-
|}

=== Brian Suda ===
http://suda.co.uk/cv/

==== Objective ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2 id="objective">Objective</h2>
<p>I am currently looking to work full-time in an environment that allows me to use both my technical and
creative backgrounds. I am seeking a position that does not have a rigid structure or inflexible goals, but
one which allows me to create new initiatives.</p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

==== Education ====

<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2 id="education">Education</h2>
<p>
<a class="ex-ref" href="http://www.ed.ac.uk" title="Master of Science, Computer Systems and Software Engineering">
The University of Edinburgh</a><br />
Edinburgh, Scotland<br />
Master of Science,<br />
Informatics, Computer Science<br />
</p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Includes degree, school, location.

==== Employment ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
<h2 id="employment">Employment</h2>
<p>
9/01–9/02, 1/05–Present<br />
Technology Developer<br />
<a class="ex-ref" href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1
&q=paradigm+new+media+group" title="Technology Developer">Paradigm New Media Group</a><br />
Saint Louis, <abbr title="Missouri">MO</abbr> <abbr title="United States of America" class="initialism">USA</abbr>
<br />
</p>
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Includes the start and end date, job title, company url, company name and company location.

==== Overall Implied Schema ====

{|
! !!
|-
|objective || a summary of career goals
|-
|education || a list including the school (organization), the degree/program and the location
|-
|employment || a list including the organization, timeframe, job title and location
|}

== Experiments in microformatting ==
* [http://cs.usfca.edu/~rking/resume.html ryan king]
* [http://cs.usfca.edu/~rking/niall.html Niall Kennedy] (microformatted by RyanKing)
* My resume uses hCard, hCalendar, XFN, and rel-license: http://edward.oconnor.cx/resume/ [[User:EdwardOConnor|EdwardOConnor]]
* [http://steve.ganz.name/resume/resume.html Steve Ganz] - A work-in-progress. Currently using [[hCard]], [[hCalendar]], and a little [http://gmpg.org/xfn/ XFN]. Where there weren't any appropriate existing microformats to draw upon, I looked to [http://xmlresume.sourceforge.net/ XML Resume] for semantics or simply improvised (class="qualifications"). I also created a few custom link type values: rel="employer current" and rel="employer former" (no profile yet).
* [http://maetl.coretxt.net.nz/cv/ Mark Rickerby] - a barebones CV written in the first week of 2006
* [http://xavierroy.com/resume/ Xavier Roy] - a resume sample hacked and copied from various sources including the above ones...

== Aggregate Analysis ==

The table below is a merge+sort of the above "Overall Aggregate Analysis" tables. This should highlight where we have regularities across examples.

{|
! affiliations/memberships
|-
|affiliations || a list of affiliations, current and past, each with organization info
|-
|affiliations || a list of affiliations, each with organization name, url and association type
|-
|affiliations || a list of URL/name of organization
|-
|memberships || a list of organizations
|-

! appearances/awards
|-
|appearances and awards || a list of events
|-
|awards || a list of awards, each with name, url and date
|-

! contact info
|-
|contact || current contact info, already an hcard
|-
|contact info || contact info - address, email, url
|-
|contact info || current contact info including mailing address and URL
|-

! education/military
|-
|education || a list including organization (school), degree, honors, graduation date and area of study
|-
|education || a list including the school (organization), the degree/program and the location
|-
|education || a list of affiliations, like above, then a list of honors/awards
|-
|education || a list of: school, graduation date, degree and GPA
|-
|education || a list, each item including the date (range), the institution and a list of courses, with a URLs and names
|-
|education || list of education events, includes school, timeframe, school location
|-
|education/ military || list of education and military service, each with title/degree, org and timeframe
|-

! employment/professional experience
|-
|employment || a list including the organization, timeframe, job title and location
|-
|employment || a list of jobs, each including dates, company, jobtitle, completed, products
|-
|professional experience || a list including title, organization, timeframe and a description
|-
|professional experience || a list of job events
|-
|professional experience || a list of jobs, each with timeframes and accomplishments
|-
|professional experience || a list of: title, timeframe, organization
|-
|professional experience || list of employment, each as an event
|-

!exhibitions
|-
|exhibitions || a list of events
|-

! interests
|-
|interests || a list of personal interests
|-
|interests || text describing current interests
|-

! objective
|-
|objective || a summary of career goals
|-
|objective || text describing career goals
|-

!patents
|-
|patents || a list of patents- pending and granted with descriptions, a URL, list of inventors
|-

! portfolio
|-
|portfolio || list of URLs and titles
|-

! presentations
|-
|presentations || a list of invited presentations, each including presenters names, the presentation's title, the occassion/event and location
|-

! skills
|-
|professional skills || an outline of skills/tools broken down by general categories
|-

!publications
|-
|publications || a list of citations
|-
|publications || a list of citations
|-
|publications || a list of writings, each including author(s), title, url and published year
|-
|publications || list of citations
|-
|published work || a list of citations
|-
|projects/ self-publications || a list of projects (w/ URLs) and books published online
|-

! qualifications
|-
|qualifications || list of qualification
|-
|qualifications/experience || list of skills and tools
|-

! status
|-
|status || text describing work availability
|-

! summary
|-
|summary || a list of qualifications and competencies
|-
|summary || an overview of qualifications
|-
|summary || summary of qualification
|-
|}

== Diploma Examples ==

It has been suggested that hResume include diplomas/certificates. See [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-June/004364.html]

This section is for adding diploma examples.

== First example ==
==== Employment ====
<blockquote><pre><nowiki>
markup example goes here
</nowiki></pre></blockquote>

Short description here.

== Related Pages ==
{{hresume-related-pages}}

xfn-brainstorming

2015-05-07T20:08:11Z

Elf Pavlik: /* fan follower examples */ added IndieWeb hmans.io

<entry-title> XFN Brainstorming </entry-title>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]
* [[rel-faq]]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]]. <span id="Frames"> </span>

=== Indicating non-identity ===
I think we need a way to indicate that another page should not be consolidated into your identity. - KevinMarks

==== common name disambiguation ====
If you have a common name, creating a disambiguation page or pages to indicate which ones aren't you is useful for indexers and people alike. In fact there are examples of people already creating such a page and linking to pages that are not them. Real world use cases that would benefit:
* Kevin Kelly (the former Wired editor) has put together a page to indicate [http://kevinkelly.name|other people also called "Kevin Kelly"].
* [http://vadim.com Vadim Akslerod] has created a page of [http://vadim.com/vadim/ Vadims on the Net] that link to other people called Vadim.

==== accidental or malicious rel-me links ====
If someone accidentally or maliciously links to one of my pages with rel="me" it would be good to be able to actually deny the connection, rather than just passively not link back. See [http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com | the social graph API results for kevinmarks.com] for examples. - KevinMarks

This appears to be more of a theoretical use case (as compared to the common name disambiguation) because the real world use ''is'' to simply '''not''' link back, and I don't think we should encourage people to add links to things that are not them, nor are they likely to, especially if it is a spammer/stalker/griefer that is linking to them. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== notme proposal ====
initial proposal: <code>rel="notme"</code>, though very open to better suggestions.

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:
<div class="discussion">
* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** Additional XFN rel values is the wrong way to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* ''rel=kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.
** Again, age (and thus differences) should be represented by use of the [[hCard]] 'bday' property, not rel. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== grandparent examples ====
If people actually find and document non-trivial examples of links to grandparent sites and this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[grandparent-examples]].

To date, no real world examples have been documented of URLs of grandchildren linking to their grandparents, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a ''theoretical'' need.

Anyone that cares to pursue this may find some real world examples to document in the following web searches (note that search links themselves are not examples, but merely a step towards finding real world examples which still need to be individually analyzed, checked against being false positives etc.)
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 search for "my grandpa's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 search for "my grandfather's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 search for "my grandma's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 search for "my grandmother's website"].

See also [[genealogy-examples]].

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:
<source lang="html4strict">
I can trace my family back to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">William the conqueror.</a>
</source>
In these cases it would be useful to have <code>rel="ancestor"</code>, and perhaps a corresponding <code>rel="descendant"</code>.
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* rel="kin" can be considered sufficient until at least some number of non-trivial real world examples are provided.

==== ancestor descendant examples ====
If this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[ancestor-descendant-examples]].
* Wikipedia examples
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother".
* See also [[genealogy-examples]].

So far only a couple of (representative) real world examples (from just one site, Wikipedia) have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a need clearly outside of the 80/20.

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== follower and following ===
The brainstorming on fans and followers and inverses thereof has appeared to settle (for many months - over a year(?)) on "follower" and "following" as mutual inverse relationship terms.

Current summary:

* rel="follower" - links to someone who is a follower, that is they are following you.
* rel="following" - links to someone who is one of your "followings", i.e. someone you are following.

Summary discussion:
<div class="discussion">
* I'd say they're ready for experimentation on websites in the wild. Once we have examples in the wild, we can promote this to a draft of [[rel-follower]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
* We've had consensus on this for a while now - consider this an invitation for anyone to start stubbing out minimal descriptions for [[rel-follower]] and [[rel-following]], and then we can add them as brainstorming values as well as register them for use in HTML5 in the [[existing-rel-values]] page. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 16:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
</div>

FAQ:
<div class="discussion">
* Q: Does <code>rel=following</code> mean that I read all their content daily/hourly/in real time?[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706665]
** A: <code>rel=following</code> just means reading some amount, no implications about timeliness, nor comprehensiveness.[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706765]
</div>

See below for the analysis and brainstorming that led to this outcome and for specific discussions.

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

==== IndieWeb ====
* http://hmans.io/following

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
<div class="discussion">
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** 0 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one, it seems to represent the implied semantics. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me. However, the point made by [[User:Donohoe]] below is a good one thus I've changed my opinion from +1 to +0 on this option.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
*** -1 Argument from theoretical example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
** -1 This seems too strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] Donohoe's reasoning below is good and I prefer 'following'
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I tend to agree with [[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]]'s reasoning. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
** -1 against for same reasons as Kevin Marks. And "subscription" doesn't sound like a term for a person. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus
* <span id="following">following</span> - as the singular of "followings". If someone is one of your "followings", then you are following that someone, as opposed to if someone is one of your "followers", then that someone is following you! It may sound a bit clumsy/awkward as a term at first, but I think that's actually a sign of novel usage, which has some appeal because then it means the term may be available for us to fill it with this meaning - or I should say, amplify this meaning as it [http://search.twitter.com/search?q=followings has been given by existing Twitter users].
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] '''following''' is the best term I have seen for the inverse of fan/follower, and paired with '''follower''', provides a good enough complementary pair of relationships to express both directions.
** Note that Google has now [http://buzz.blogger.com/2008/08/show-off-your-followers.html adopted the "follow" terminology]. -- [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
** +1 'following'is widely adopted. Lets just decide on this and get it implemented.
** +1 I think 'following' is now well understood thanks to both Twitter and Blogger using it, and worth codifying here [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* follows
** proposed by [http://schema.org/Person unknown authors at schema.org] I assume this meant to be a verb (like 'knows' ) rather than a plural adjective.
</div>

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
<div class="discussion">
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my (and others') personal anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
***** My point is that as per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rev HTML 4 definition of <code>rev</code>] any time anyone defines a new link type <code>rel=''X''</code>, the meaning of <code>rev=''X''</code> becomes defined too. This is unavoidable. We should define new link types in terms of <code>rel</code> rather than <code>rev</code> for clarity, but we can't prevent people from taking advantage of the facilities inherent in (X)HTML to mark up the inverse meaning. (e.g. [http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics <code>rev=tag</code> mention], [http://singpolyma.net/2007/05/the-state-of-distributed-social-networking/ and again], [http://styrheim.weblogg.no/311005201154_revtags.html and again]) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 01:17, 7 Aug 2008 (PDT)
****** We can avoid use of 'rev' by (1) specifically recommending against use of it as the [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|rel FAQ does]], and (2) by providing an inverse term that can be used with 'rel' so there is no need to use 'rev'. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

How about "rel-reader" instead of "rel-follower" and "rel-reading" instead of "rel-following" ? It has the more 'neutral' and 'real world' connotation of actually reading and not 'following' people around. Also refers to the traditional word for such things in the book-world as in "Neil Gaiman's readers" and "I am reading Neil Gaiman" -- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

On further thought and discussion with [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] (see: [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=1+Jul+2014&e=1+Jul+2014#c72761 IRC logs reference] ), reader/reading denote textual content which seems too narrow for the Web.-- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

=== past examples ===
Sites that previously provided real world examples of fans vs friends:
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends) - until 2008-12-15 when the site moved to read-only mode.

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady
* +1 needed by [https://github.com/open-app/core Enspiral] in their [http://www.enspiral.com/ Open App Ecosystem] as explained in [https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12#issuecomment-78043877 this github issue] &mdash [[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 22:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Tantek Çelik</span>
<span class="org">Citizen Agency</span>
<span class="role">advisor</span>
</span>
</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Influence out and influenced in ==

Needing to provide more options to describe the flow of influence I've been considering the following relationship terms that fall into two predicate groups, influence out(applied) and influence in(received).

Influence out:
* 'follower'
* 'student'
* 'subscriber'
* 'listener'
* 'reader'
* 'viewer'
* 'supporter'
* 'collaborator'

Influence in:
* 'inspiration'
* 'favorite'
* 'teacher'
* 'mentor'
* 'adviser'
* 'influence'
* 'source'
* 'collaborator'

Inline with xfn convention the terms are all nouns and refer to the far side of the link they are used in.

[[User:James Tindall|James Tindall]] 14:23, 31 Aug 2008 (BST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example:
* <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above)
** or perhaps <code>rel="teacher"</code> to indicate the distinct scholarly semantic. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor)
* <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate].
Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with the existing XFN <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code> values.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== business to business ==
There has been some discussion (on the microformats-discuss mailing list) about wanting to markup business to business relationships.

While this is out of scope for XFN's person to person links, if a page/site does represent a company (e.g. if the [[representative hCard]] of the page was an organization) and links to other company sites, it could be useful.

In particular <code>rel</code> values of:
* <code>subsidiary</code>. designates a link to a subsidiary company of a controlling/parent company
* <code>controlling</code>. designates a link to the controlling/parent company of a subsidiary company
* ...

Currently this is a theoretical example as no real world example pages of companies linking to other such company pages have been provided, and as such, there is insufficient research/usage/experience to merit consideration as a microformat.

Those wishing to experiment with these rel values, should consider doing so as [[POSH]] and document their experience here so that we have some real world examples!

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== met and wants to meet ==

[http://lanyrd.com/ Lanyrd] allows to mark people as "Want to meet". Also some people like to keep track on who they have met. Based on [http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-03/line/1430691481869 discussion on #indiewebcamp IRC]

[[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 23:01, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]
* [http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/ FOAF Vocabulary]

triples

2015-05-07T18:08:58Z

Elf Pavlik: added Usage in Microformats

{{stub}}

'''<dfn>triples</dfn>''' in the context of data markup typically refers to having three pieces of information as part of a statement, e.g. object predicate subject.
__TOC__
== Problem of unnecessary complexity ==
Explaining triples is hard for some reason.

It always takes more time to explain to explain triples rather than simple property:value constructs as in microformats and JSON.

Thus there's inevitably fewer people that can understand anything [[RDF]]/[[linked-data]] etc. which means:
* fewer authors
* fewer developers
* fewer libraries
... etc.

The larger problem is that triples are more than just complicated, they are <strong>unnecessarily complicated</strong>.

Standards, formats, protocols, applications can get along fine without them (thus making them unnecessary - AKA [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_aren%27t_gonna_need_it YAGNI]).

microformats are proof of this (good enough, triples unnecessary) for HTML based data.

JSON is proof of this from API consumers' perspective.

With [[microformats2]] [[parsers]] that can turn HTML+microformats into canonical JSON, both problems are solved.

And thus triples are more appealing to data architects than folks who want to ship features as quickly as possible (e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com), who can't be bothered to learn about the greater complexity of triples.

== Usage in Microformats ==

=== Nested h-card ===
[[microformats2#h-card_org_h-card]] has two distinct subjects and each of them have property + value pairs.

=== h-feed nesting multiple h-entry ===
[[h-feed]] each h-entry sets new subject and all the property + value pairs refer to it.
: example in the wild http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F

== See Also ==
* [[RDF]]
* [[rdfa]]
* [[linked-data]]

h-card

2015-05-07T17:55:22Z

Elf Pavlik: added nested h-card example

<entry-title>h-card</entry-title>
<span class="h-card vcard"><span class="p-name fn">[[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]]</span> (<span class="p-role role">Editor</span>)</span>
----
<dfn style="font-style:normal;font-weight:bold">h-card</dfn> is a simple, open format for publishing people and organisations on the web. h-card is one of several open [[microformats|microformat]] draft standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/HTML5.

h-card is the [[microformats2]] update to [[hCard]].

{{cc0-owfa-license}}

== Example ==
Here is a simple minimal person example:

<source lang=html4strict>
<a class="h-card" href="http://example.com">Joe Bloggs</a>
</source>

Parsed JSON:
<source lang=javascript>
{
"items": [
{
"type": [
"h-card"
],
"properties": {
"name": [
"Joe Bloggs"
],
"url": [
"http://example.com"
]
}
}
]
}
</source>

And a slightly more complete example:

<source lang=html4strict>
<p class="h-card">
<img class="u-photo" src="http://example.org/photo.png" alt="" />
<a class="p-name u-url" href="http://example.org">Joe Bloggs</a>
<a class="u-email" href="mailto:joebloggs@example.com">joebloggs@example.com</a>,
<span class="p-street-address">17 Austerstræti</span>
<span class="p-locality">Reykjavík</span>
<span class="p-country-name">Iceland</span>
</p>
</source>

Parsed JSON:
<source lang=javascript>
{
"items": [
{
"type": [
"h-card"
],
"properties": {
"photo": [
"http://example.org/photo.png"
],
"name": [
"Joe Bloggs"
],
"url": [
"http://example.org"
],
"email": [
"mailto:joebloggs@example.com"
],
"street-address": [
"17 Austerstræti"
],
"locality": [
"Reykjavík"
],
"country-name": [
"Iceland"
]
}
}
]
}
</source>

Nested h-card example

<source lang=html4strict>
<div class="h-card">
<a class="p-name u-url"
href="http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/"
>Mitchell Baker</a>
(<a class="p-org h-card"
href="http://mozilla.org/"
>Mozilla Foundation</a>)
</div>
</source>

Parsed JSON:
<source lang=javascript>
{
"items": [{
"type": ["h-card"],
"properties": {
"name": ["Mitchell Baker"],
"url": ["http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/"],
"org": [{
"value": "Mozilla Foundation",
"type": ["h-card"],
"properties": {
"name": ["Mozilla Foundation"],
"url": ["http://mozilla.org/"]
}
}]
}
}]
}
</source>

Note: the nested h-card has implied 'name' and 'url' properties, just like any other root-class-name-only h-card on an <code><a href></code> would.

=== Get started ===
The class '''<code>h-card</code>''' is a ''root class name'' that indicates the presence of an h-card.

For minimal examples where at most <code>p-name</code>, <code>u-url</code> and <code>u-photo</code> are required (such as the first given above), only the root class name is needed — see [[microformats-2-implied-properties|implied properties]].

For more complex examples, the root class name must be placed on an element which encloses all the desired properties, and then the properties themselves marked up using the classnames given below.

See [[microformats2-parsing]] to learn more about property classnames.

== Properties ==
h-card properties, inside an element with class '''h-card''':
* '''<code>p-name</code>''' - The full/formatted name of the person or organisation
* '''<code>p-honorific-prefix</code>''' - e.g. Mrs., Mr. or Dr.
* '''<code>p-given-name</code>''' - given (often first) name
* '''<code>p-additional-name</code>''' - other/middle name
* '''<code>p-family-name</code>''' - family (often last) name
* '''<code>p-sort-string</code>''' - string to sort by
* '''<code>p-honorific-suffix</code>''' - e.g. Ph.D, Esq.
* '''<code>p-nickname</code>''' - nickname/alias/handle
* '''<code>u-email</code>''' - email address
* '''<code>u-logo</code>''' - a logo representing the person or organisation
* '''<code>u-photo</code>'''
* '''<code>u-url</code>''' - home page
* '''<code>u-uid</code>''' - unique identifier, often canonical URL
* '''<code>p-category</code>''' - category/tag
* '''<code>p-adr</code>''' - postal address, optionally embed an [[h-adr]] {{main|h-adr}}
* '''<code>p-post-office-box</code>'''
* '''<code>p-extended-address</code>''' - apartment/suite/room name/number if any
* '''<code>p-street-address</code>''' - street number + name
* '''<code>p-locality</code>''' - city/town/village
* '''<code>p-region</code>''' - state/county/province
* '''<code>p-postal-code</code>''' - postal code, e.g. US ZIP
* '''<code>p-country-name</code>''' - country name
* '''<code>p-label</code>'''
* '''<code>p-geo</code>''' or '''<code>u-geo</code>''', optionally embed an [[h-geo]] {{main|h-geo}}
* '''<code>p-latitude</code>''' - decimal latitude
* '''<code>p-longitude</code>''' - decimal longitude
* '''<code>p-altitude</code>''' - decimal altitude
* '''<code>p-tel</code>''' - telephone number
* '''<code>p-note</code>''' - additional notes
* '''<code>dt-bday</code>''' - birth date
* '''<code>u-key</code>''' - cryptographic public key e.g. SSH or GPG
* '''<code>p-org</code>''' - affiliated organization, optionally embed an [[h-card]]
* '''<code>p-job-title</code>''' - job title, previously 'title' in [[hCard]], disambiguated.
* '''<code>p-role</code>''' - description of role
* '''<code>u-impp</code>''' per RFC 4770, new in vCard4 (RFC6350)
* '''<code>p-sex</code>''' - biological sex, new in vCard4 (RFC6350)
* '''<code>p-gender-identity</code>''' - gender identity, new in vCard4 (RFC6350)
* '''<code>dt-anniversary</code>'''

All properties are optional.

== Status ==
'''h-card''' is a microformats.org draft specification. Public discussion on h-card takes place on [[h-card-feedback]], the #microformats [[irc]] channel on irc.freenode.net, and [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/ microformats-new mailing list].

h-card is ready to use and implemented in the wild, but for backwards compatibility you should also mark h-cards up as classic [[hCard]]s.

== Property Details ==
(stub, to be expanded)

=== p-adr ===
<code>p-adr</code> can optionally embed an [[h-adr]] to cluster associated structured address properties. E.g. adding "p-adr" to the example earlier:

<source lang=html4strict>
<div class="h-card">
<p class="p-name">Joe Bloggs</p>
<p class="p-adr h-adr">
<span class="p-street-address">17 Austerstræti</span>
<span class="p-locality">Reykjavík</span>
<span class="p-country-name">Iceland</span>
</p>
</div>
</source>

Q: Why would you use "p-adr" to cluster associated structured address properties?

A: Because if you have more than one structured address, it helps to cluster which properties go with which address, e.g. home vs. work.

=== p-tel ===
Note: use of 'value' within 'p-tel' should be automatically handled by the support of the [[value-class-pattern]]. And for now, the former [[hCard]] 'type' subproperty of 'tel' is dropped/ignored. If there is demonstrable documented need for additional tel types (e.g. fax), we can introduce new flat properties as needed (e.g. p-tel-fax).

=== Reserved properties ===
Reserved properties (not used much, if at all, in practice):

* '''<code>p-organization-name</code>'''
* '''<code>p-organization-unit</code>'''
* '''<code>p-tz</code>''' - timezone offset, e.g. <code><data class="p-tz" value="-0800">PST</data></code>
* '''<code>dt-rev</code>'''

== Examples in the wild ==
Real world in the wild examples:

* ... add uses of h-card you see in the wild here.
* App.net rolled out support for h-card and h-entry on all profile pages and permalink pages as of 2013-08-06 ([https://alpha.app.net/voidfiles example])
* Brett Comnes marks up his posts with h-card ([http://bret.io/2013/06/29/getting-started-with-bower/ example])
* Ben Werdmuller marks up his homepage and posts with h-card [http://werd.io/view/51d5097fbed7ded0633a5956 example])
* Sandeep Shetty marks his homepage and posts up with h-card and h-entry ([sandeep.io/101 example])
* [http://eschnou.com/ Laurent Eschenauer] marks his homepage profile up using h-card
* [http://tommorris.org/ Tom Morris] marks himself up with h-card as well as venues he’s checked into ([http://tommorris.org/posts/8408 example])
* [http://www.w3.org/conf/ W3Conf 2013] uses h-card for all the event speakers and notable attendees. The h-cards make particularly good use of implied name, url, and photo properties.
* [http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/sempress SemPress] is a WordPress theme that supports h-card, h-feed/h-entry and h-as-*
* [http://the-pastry-box-project.net/ The Pastry Box Project] use h-card markup on their homepage and individual thoughts pages
* Tom Morris uses h-card and [[XFN]] to markup [http://tommorris.org/pages/blogroll his blogroll].
* Aaron Parecki uses h-card to markup both authorship and references to people in his notes permalinks, e.g. [http://aaronparecki.com/2012/230/reply/1 2012/230/reply/1].
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik] uses h-card on his home page as well as within [[h-entry]]s on permalink pages to indicate authorship.
* [http://waterpigs.co.uk/ Barnaby Walters] uses h-card on his home page, as well as within h-entries for notes and articles, both to indicate authorship and also when mentioning people within the body of the notes.
* [http://tantek.com/presentations/2012/06/microformats microformats.org at 7 years] presentation with and h-card markup for people and organizations.
* [http://tantek.com/presentations/2012/06/pdf2012-indieweb.html Rise of the Indie Web hCards] (from Personal Democracy Forum 2012 #pdf12 #pdf2012) has [[microformats2]] h-card markup
* WebMaker by Mozilla has [[microformats2]] h-card on event search (e.g. [https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/near/?lat=45.5234515&lng=-122.6762071 search near Portland Oregon]) and event pages (e.g. [https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/192f56eb9/ IndieWebCamp 2012]).[https://twitter.com/microformats/status/212207925643587585]
* WebFWD by Mozilla has [[microformats2]] h-card markup on [https://webfwd.org/about/experts/ experts] and [https://webfwd.org/about/team/ team] pages
* [http://indiewebcamp.com IndieWebCamp] has [[microformats2]] h-event markup with embedded h-cards for the organizers and the location.
* [https://wiki.mozilla.org/Events Mozilla Events] page has [[microformats2]] h-event markup with attendees marked up with h-card.

=== offline ===
* spreadly marks up share permalink pages with minimal h-cards inside h-entry ([http://my.spread.ly/share/51d570bc09e9486562000002 example])

== Validating ==
* '''[http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-card/ indiewebify.me h-card validator]''' parses [[h-card]] markup and makes suggestions for things to add, with code samples
{{h-spec-section-validating}}

== Backward Compatibility ==
=== Publisher Compatibility ===
For backward compatibility, you may wish to use classic [[hCard]] classnames in addition to the more future-proof h-card properties, for example:

<source lang=html4strict>
<p class="h-card vcard">
<span class="p-name fn">Joe Bloggs</span>,
<span class="p-org org">Awesome Nonprofit</span>
...
</p>
</source>

The class '''<code>vcard</code>''' is a ''backward compatible root class name'' that indicates the presence of an [[hCard]].

'''fn''', '''org''', and all the other backward compatibility hCard property class names are listed below.

=== Parser Compatibility ===
Microformats parsers {{should}} detect classic properties only if a classic root class name is found and parse them as microformats2 properties.

If an "h-card" is found, don't look for a "vcard" on the same element.

Compat. root class name: <code id="vcard">vcard</code><br/>
Properties: (parsed as '''p-''' plain text unless otherwise specified)
* <code>fn</code> - parse as '''<code>p-name</code>'''
* <code>honorific-prefix</code>
* <code>given-name</code>
* <code>additional-name</code>
* <code>family-name</code>
* <code>honorific-suffix</code>
* <code>nickname</code>
* <code>email</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>logo</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>photo</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>url</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>uid</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>category</code>
* <code>adr</code> - parse as '''<code>p-adr h-adr</code>''' including compat root class <code>adr</code>
* <code>extended-address</code>
* <code>street-address</code>
* <code>locality</code>
* <code>region</code>
* <code>postal-code</code>
* <code>country-name</code>
* <code>label</code>
* <code>geo</code> - parse as '''<code>p-geo h-geo</code>''' including compat root class <code>geo</code>
* <code>latitude</code>
* <code>longitude</code>
* <code>tel</code>
* <code>note</code>
* <code>bday</code> - parse as '''dt-'''
* <code>key</code> - parse as '''u-'''
* <code>org</code>
* <code>organization-name</code>
* <code>organization-unit</code>
* <code>title</code> - parse as '''p-job-title'''
* <code>role</code>

Reserved: (backward compat properties that parsers {{may}} implement, if they do, they {{must}} implement in this way:
* <code>tz</code>
* <code>rev</code> - parse as '''dt-'''

== Background ==
This work is based on the existing [[hCard]] and [[vcard]] specifications.

== Design Principles ==

(stub, expand)

== Additions ==
We've tried very hard with h-card to stay compatible with vCard4, and thus additions should be proposed on the vCard4 mailing list.

However, you may still use this wiki to capture additions for h-card here:
* [[h-card-brainstorming]]

== See Also ==
* [[microformats2]]
* [[microformats2-parsing]]
* [[h-adr]]
* [[h-geo]]
* [[hCard]]

[[Category:Draft Specifications]]

xfn-brainstorming

2015-05-03T23:01:28Z

Elf Pavlik: /* met and wants to meet */ created section

<entry-title> XFN Brainstorming </entry-title>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]
* [[rel-faq]]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]]. <span id="Frames"> </span>

=== Indicating non-identity ===
I think we need a way to indicate that another page should not be consolidated into your identity. - KevinMarks

==== common name disambiguation ====
If you have a common name, creating a disambiguation page or pages to indicate which ones aren't you is useful for indexers and people alike. In fact there are examples of people already creating such a page and linking to pages that are not them. Real world use cases that would benefit:
* Kevin Kelly (the former Wired editor) has put together a page to indicate [http://kevinkelly.name|other people also called "Kevin Kelly"].
* [http://vadim.com Vadim Akslerod] has created a page of [http://vadim.com/vadim/ Vadims on the Net] that link to other people called Vadim.

==== accidental or malicious rel-me links ====
If someone accidentally or maliciously links to one of my pages with rel="me" it would be good to be able to actually deny the connection, rather than just passively not link back. See [http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com | the social graph API results for kevinmarks.com] for examples. - KevinMarks

This appears to be more of a theoretical use case (as compared to the common name disambiguation) because the real world use ''is'' to simply '''not''' link back, and I don't think we should encourage people to add links to things that are not them, nor are they likely to, especially if it is a spammer/stalker/griefer that is linking to them. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== notme proposal ====
initial proposal: <code>rel="notme"</code>, though very open to better suggestions.

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:
<div class="discussion">
* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** Additional XFN rel values is the wrong way to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* ''rel=kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.
** Again, age (and thus differences) should be represented by use of the [[hCard]] 'bday' property, not rel. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== grandparent examples ====
If people actually find and document non-trivial examples of links to grandparent sites and this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[grandparent-examples]].

To date, no real world examples have been documented of URLs of grandchildren linking to their grandparents, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a ''theoretical'' need.

Anyone that cares to pursue this may find some real world examples to document in the following web searches (note that search links themselves are not examples, but merely a step towards finding real world examples which still need to be individually analyzed, checked against being false positives etc.)
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 search for "my grandpa's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 search for "my grandfather's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 search for "my grandma's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 search for "my grandmother's website"].

See also [[genealogy-examples]].

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:
<source lang="html4strict">
I can trace my family back to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">William the conqueror.</a>
</source>
In these cases it would be useful to have <code>rel="ancestor"</code>, and perhaps a corresponding <code>rel="descendant"</code>.
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* rel="kin" can be considered sufficient until at least some number of non-trivial real world examples are provided.

==== ancestor descendant examples ====
If this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[ancestor-descendant-examples]].
* Wikipedia examples
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother".
* See also [[genealogy-examples]].

So far only a couple of (representative) real world examples (from just one site, Wikipedia) have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a need clearly outside of the 80/20.

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== follower and following ===
The brainstorming on fans and followers and inverses thereof has appeared to settle (for many months - over a year(?)) on "follower" and "following" as mutual inverse relationship terms.

Current summary:

* rel="follower" - links to someone who is a follower, that is they are following you.
* rel="following" - links to someone who is one of your "followings", i.e. someone you are following.

Summary discussion:
<div class="discussion">
* I'd say they're ready for experimentation on websites in the wild. Once we have examples in the wild, we can promote this to a draft of [[rel-follower]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
* We've had consensus on this for a while now - consider this an invitation for anyone to start stubbing out minimal descriptions for [[rel-follower]] and [[rel-following]], and then we can add them as brainstorming values as well as register them for use in HTML5 in the [[existing-rel-values]] page. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 16:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
</div>

FAQ:
<div class="discussion">
* Q: Does <code>rel=following</code> mean that I read all their content daily/hourly/in real time?[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706665]
** A: <code>rel=following</code> just means reading some amount, no implications about timeliness, nor comprehensiveness.[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706765]
</div>

See below for the analysis and brainstorming that led to this outcome and for specific discussions.

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
<div class="discussion">
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** 0 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one, it seems to represent the implied semantics. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me. However, the point made by [[User:Donohoe]] below is a good one thus I've changed my opinion from +1 to +0 on this option.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
*** -1 Argument from theoretical example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
** -1 This seems too strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] Donohoe's reasoning below is good and I prefer 'following'
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I tend to agree with [[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]]'s reasoning. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
** -1 against for same reasons as Kevin Marks. And "subscription" doesn't sound like a term for a person. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus
* <span id="following">following</span> - as the singular of "followings". If someone is one of your "followings", then you are following that someone, as opposed to if someone is one of your "followers", then that someone is following you! It may sound a bit clumsy/awkward as a term at first, but I think that's actually a sign of novel usage, which has some appeal because then it means the term may be available for us to fill it with this meaning - or I should say, amplify this meaning as it [http://search.twitter.com/search?q=followings has been given by existing Twitter users].
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] '''following''' is the best term I have seen for the inverse of fan/follower, and paired with '''follower''', provides a good enough complementary pair of relationships to express both directions.
** Note that Google has now [http://buzz.blogger.com/2008/08/show-off-your-followers.html adopted the "follow" terminology]. -- [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
** +1 'following'is widely adopted. Lets just decide on this and get it implemented.
** +1 I think 'following' is now well understood thanks to both Twitter and Blogger using it, and worth codifying here [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* follows
** proposed by [http://schema.org/Person unknown authors at schema.org] I assume this meant to be a verb (like 'knows' ) rather than a plural adjective.
</div>

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
<div class="discussion">
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my (and others') personal anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
***** My point is that as per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rev HTML 4 definition of <code>rev</code>] any time anyone defines a new link type <code>rel=''X''</code>, the meaning of <code>rev=''X''</code> becomes defined too. This is unavoidable. We should define new link types in terms of <code>rel</code> rather than <code>rev</code> for clarity, but we can't prevent people from taking advantage of the facilities inherent in (X)HTML to mark up the inverse meaning. (e.g. [http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics <code>rev=tag</code> mention], [http://singpolyma.net/2007/05/the-state-of-distributed-social-networking/ and again], [http://styrheim.weblogg.no/311005201154_revtags.html and again]) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 01:17, 7 Aug 2008 (PDT)
****** We can avoid use of 'rev' by (1) specifically recommending against use of it as the [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|rel FAQ does]], and (2) by providing an inverse term that can be used with 'rel' so there is no need to use 'rev'. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

How about "rel-reader" instead of "rel-follower" and "rel-reading" instead of "rel-following" ? It has the more 'neutral' and 'real world' connotation of actually reading and not 'following' people around. Also refers to the traditional word for such things in the book-world as in "Neil Gaiman's readers" and "I am reading Neil Gaiman" -- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

On further thought and discussion with [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] (see: [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=1+Jul+2014&e=1+Jul+2014#c72761 IRC logs reference] ), reader/reading denote textual content which seems too narrow for the Web.-- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

=== past examples ===
Sites that previously provided real world examples of fans vs friends:
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends) - until 2008-12-15 when the site moved to read-only mode.

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady
* +1 needed by [https://github.com/open-app/core Enspiral] in their [http://www.enspiral.com/ Open App Ecosystem] as explained in [https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12#issuecomment-78043877 this github issue] &mdash [[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 22:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Tantek Çelik</span>
<span class="org">Citizen Agency</span>
<span class="role">advisor</span>
</span>
</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Influence out and influenced in ==

Needing to provide more options to describe the flow of influence I've been considering the following relationship terms that fall into two predicate groups, influence out(applied) and influence in(received).

Influence out:
* 'follower'
* 'student'
* 'subscriber'
* 'listener'
* 'reader'
* 'viewer'
* 'supporter'
* 'collaborator'

Influence in:
* 'inspiration'
* 'favorite'
* 'teacher'
* 'mentor'
* 'adviser'
* 'influence'
* 'source'
* 'collaborator'

Inline with xfn convention the terms are all nouns and refer to the far side of the link they are used in.

[[User:James Tindall|James Tindall]] 14:23, 31 Aug 2008 (BST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example:
* <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above)
** or perhaps <code>rel="teacher"</code> to indicate the distinct scholarly semantic. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor)
* <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate].
Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with the existing XFN <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code> values.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== business to business ==
There has been some discussion (on the microformats-discuss mailing list) about wanting to markup business to business relationships.

While this is out of scope for XFN's person to person links, if a page/site does represent a company (e.g. if the [[representative hCard]] of the page was an organization) and links to other company sites, it could be useful.

In particular <code>rel</code> values of:
* <code>subsidiary</code>. designates a link to a subsidiary company of a controlling/parent company
* <code>controlling</code>. designates a link to the controlling/parent company of a subsidiary company
* ...

Currently this is a theoretical example as no real world example pages of companies linking to other such company pages have been provided, and as such, there is insufficient research/usage/experience to merit consideration as a microformat.

Those wishing to experiment with these rel values, should consider doing so as [[POSH]] and document their experience here so that we have some real world examples!

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== met and wants to meet ==

[http://lanyrd.com/ Lanyrd] allows to mark people as "Want to meet". Also some people like to keep track on who they have met. Based on [http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-03/line/1430691481869 discussion on #indiewebcamp IRC]

[[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 23:01, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]
* [http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/ FOAF Vocabulary]

xfn-brainstorming

2015-05-03T22:52:07Z

Elf Pavlik: /* see also */ added link to FOAF

<entry-title> XFN Brainstorming </entry-title>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]
* [[rel-faq]]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]]. <span id="Frames"> </span>

=== Indicating non-identity ===
I think we need a way to indicate that another page should not be consolidated into your identity. - KevinMarks

==== common name disambiguation ====
If you have a common name, creating a disambiguation page or pages to indicate which ones aren't you is useful for indexers and people alike. In fact there are examples of people already creating such a page and linking to pages that are not them. Real world use cases that would benefit:
* Kevin Kelly (the former Wired editor) has put together a page to indicate [http://kevinkelly.name|other people also called "Kevin Kelly"].
* [http://vadim.com Vadim Akslerod] has created a page of [http://vadim.com/vadim/ Vadims on the Net] that link to other people called Vadim.

==== accidental or malicious rel-me links ====
If someone accidentally or maliciously links to one of my pages with rel="me" it would be good to be able to actually deny the connection, rather than just passively not link back. See [http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com | the social graph API results for kevinmarks.com] for examples. - KevinMarks

This appears to be more of a theoretical use case (as compared to the common name disambiguation) because the real world use ''is'' to simply '''not''' link back, and I don't think we should encourage people to add links to things that are not them, nor are they likely to, especially if it is a spammer/stalker/griefer that is linking to them. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== notme proposal ====
initial proposal: <code>rel="notme"</code>, though very open to better suggestions.

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:
<div class="discussion">
* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** Additional XFN rel values is the wrong way to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* ''rel=kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.
** Again, age (and thus differences) should be represented by use of the [[hCard]] 'bday' property, not rel. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== grandparent examples ====
If people actually find and document non-trivial examples of links to grandparent sites and this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[grandparent-examples]].

To date, no real world examples have been documented of URLs of grandchildren linking to their grandparents, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a ''theoretical'' need.

Anyone that cares to pursue this may find some real world examples to document in the following web searches (note that search links themselves are not examples, but merely a step towards finding real world examples which still need to be individually analyzed, checked against being false positives etc.)
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 search for "my grandpa's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 search for "my grandfather's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 search for "my grandma's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 search for "my grandmother's website"].

See also [[genealogy-examples]].

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:
<source lang="html4strict">
I can trace my family back to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">William the conqueror.</a>
</source>
In these cases it would be useful to have <code>rel="ancestor"</code>, and perhaps a corresponding <code>rel="descendant"</code>.
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* rel="kin" can be considered sufficient until at least some number of non-trivial real world examples are provided.

==== ancestor descendant examples ====
If this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[ancestor-descendant-examples]].
* Wikipedia examples
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother".
* See also [[genealogy-examples]].

So far only a couple of (representative) real world examples (from just one site, Wikipedia) have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a need clearly outside of the 80/20.

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== follower and following ===
The brainstorming on fans and followers and inverses thereof has appeared to settle (for many months - over a year(?)) on "follower" and "following" as mutual inverse relationship terms.

Current summary:

* rel="follower" - links to someone who is a follower, that is they are following you.
* rel="following" - links to someone who is one of your "followings", i.e. someone you are following.

Summary discussion:
<div class="discussion">
* I'd say they're ready for experimentation on websites in the wild. Once we have examples in the wild, we can promote this to a draft of [[rel-follower]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
* We've had consensus on this for a while now - consider this an invitation for anyone to start stubbing out minimal descriptions for [[rel-follower]] and [[rel-following]], and then we can add them as brainstorming values as well as register them for use in HTML5 in the [[existing-rel-values]] page. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 16:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
</div>

FAQ:
<div class="discussion">
* Q: Does <code>rel=following</code> mean that I read all their content daily/hourly/in real time?[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706665]
** A: <code>rel=following</code> just means reading some amount, no implications about timeliness, nor comprehensiveness.[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706765]
</div>

See below for the analysis and brainstorming that led to this outcome and for specific discussions.

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
<div class="discussion">
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** 0 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one, it seems to represent the implied semantics. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me. However, the point made by [[User:Donohoe]] below is a good one thus I've changed my opinion from +1 to +0 on this option.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
*** -1 Argument from theoretical example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
** -1 This seems too strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] Donohoe's reasoning below is good and I prefer 'following'
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I tend to agree with [[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]]'s reasoning. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
** -1 against for same reasons as Kevin Marks. And "subscription" doesn't sound like a term for a person. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus
* <span id="following">following</span> - as the singular of "followings". If someone is one of your "followings", then you are following that someone, as opposed to if someone is one of your "followers", then that someone is following you! It may sound a bit clumsy/awkward as a term at first, but I think that's actually a sign of novel usage, which has some appeal because then it means the term may be available for us to fill it with this meaning - or I should say, amplify this meaning as it [http://search.twitter.com/search?q=followings has been given by existing Twitter users].
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] '''following''' is the best term I have seen for the inverse of fan/follower, and paired with '''follower''', provides a good enough complementary pair of relationships to express both directions.
** Note that Google has now [http://buzz.blogger.com/2008/08/show-off-your-followers.html adopted the "follow" terminology]. -- [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
** +1 'following'is widely adopted. Lets just decide on this and get it implemented.
** +1 I think 'following' is now well understood thanks to both Twitter and Blogger using it, and worth codifying here [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* follows
** proposed by [http://schema.org/Person unknown authors at schema.org] I assume this meant to be a verb (like 'knows' ) rather than a plural adjective.
</div>

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
<div class="discussion">
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my (and others') personal anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
***** My point is that as per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rev HTML 4 definition of <code>rev</code>] any time anyone defines a new link type <code>rel=''X''</code>, the meaning of <code>rev=''X''</code> becomes defined too. This is unavoidable. We should define new link types in terms of <code>rel</code> rather than <code>rev</code> for clarity, but we can't prevent people from taking advantage of the facilities inherent in (X)HTML to mark up the inverse meaning. (e.g. [http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics <code>rev=tag</code> mention], [http://singpolyma.net/2007/05/the-state-of-distributed-social-networking/ and again], [http://styrheim.weblogg.no/311005201154_revtags.html and again]) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 01:17, 7 Aug 2008 (PDT)
****** We can avoid use of 'rev' by (1) specifically recommending against use of it as the [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|rel FAQ does]], and (2) by providing an inverse term that can be used with 'rel' so there is no need to use 'rev'. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

How about "rel-reader" instead of "rel-follower" and "rel-reading" instead of "rel-following" ? It has the more 'neutral' and 'real world' connotation of actually reading and not 'following' people around. Also refers to the traditional word for such things in the book-world as in "Neil Gaiman's readers" and "I am reading Neil Gaiman" -- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

On further thought and discussion with [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] (see: [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=1+Jul+2014&e=1+Jul+2014#c72761 IRC logs reference] ), reader/reading denote textual content which seems too narrow for the Web.-- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

=== past examples ===
Sites that previously provided real world examples of fans vs friends:
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends) - until 2008-12-15 when the site moved to read-only mode.

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady
* +1 needed by [https://github.com/open-app/core Enspiral] in their [http://www.enspiral.com/ Open App Ecosystem] as explained in [https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12#issuecomment-78043877 this github issue] &mdash [[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 22:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Tantek Çelik</span>
<span class="org">Citizen Agency</span>
<span class="role">advisor</span>
</span>
</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Influence out and influenced in ==

Needing to provide more options to describe the flow of influence I've been considering the following relationship terms that fall into two predicate groups, influence out(applied) and influence in(received).

Influence out:
* 'follower'
* 'student'
* 'subscriber'
* 'listener'
* 'reader'
* 'viewer'
* 'supporter'
* 'collaborator'

Influence in:
* 'inspiration'
* 'favorite'
* 'teacher'
* 'mentor'
* 'adviser'
* 'influence'
* 'source'
* 'collaborator'

Inline with xfn convention the terms are all nouns and refer to the far side of the link they are used in.

[[User:James Tindall|James Tindall]] 14:23, 31 Aug 2008 (BST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example:
* <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above)
** or perhaps <code>rel="teacher"</code> to indicate the distinct scholarly semantic. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor)
* <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate].
Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with the existing XFN <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code> values.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== business to business ==
There has been some discussion (on the microformats-discuss mailing list) about wanting to markup business to business relationships.

While this is out of scope for XFN's person to person links, if a page/site does represent a company (e.g. if the [[representative hCard]] of the page was an organization) and links to other company sites, it could be useful.

In particular <code>rel</code> values of:
* <code>subsidiary</code>. designates a link to a subsidiary company of a controlling/parent company
* <code>controlling</code>. designates a link to the controlling/parent company of a subsidiary company
* ...

Currently this is a theoretical example as no real world example pages of companies linking to other such company pages have been provided, and as such, there is insufficient research/usage/experience to merit consideration as a microformat.

Those wishing to experiment with these rel values, should consider doing so as [[POSH]] and document their experience here so that we have some real world examples!

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]
* [http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/ FOAF Vocabulary]

xfn-brainstorming

2015-05-03T22:49:47Z

Elf Pavlik: /* mentors and mentees */

<entry-title> XFN Brainstorming </entry-title>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]
* [[rel-faq]]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]]. <span id="Frames"> </span>

=== Indicating non-identity ===
I think we need a way to indicate that another page should not be consolidated into your identity. - KevinMarks

==== common name disambiguation ====
If you have a common name, creating a disambiguation page or pages to indicate which ones aren't you is useful for indexers and people alike. In fact there are examples of people already creating such a page and linking to pages that are not them. Real world use cases that would benefit:
* Kevin Kelly (the former Wired editor) has put together a page to indicate [http://kevinkelly.name|other people also called "Kevin Kelly"].
* [http://vadim.com Vadim Akslerod] has created a page of [http://vadim.com/vadim/ Vadims on the Net] that link to other people called Vadim.

==== accidental or malicious rel-me links ====
If someone accidentally or maliciously links to one of my pages with rel="me" it would be good to be able to actually deny the connection, rather than just passively not link back. See [http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com | the social graph API results for kevinmarks.com] for examples. - KevinMarks

This appears to be more of a theoretical use case (as compared to the common name disambiguation) because the real world use ''is'' to simply '''not''' link back, and I don't think we should encourage people to add links to things that are not them, nor are they likely to, especially if it is a spammer/stalker/griefer that is linking to them. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== notme proposal ====
initial proposal: <code>rel="notme"</code>, though very open to better suggestions.

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:
<div class="discussion">
* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** Additional XFN rel values is the wrong way to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* ''rel=kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.
** Again, age (and thus differences) should be represented by use of the [[hCard]] 'bday' property, not rel. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== grandparent examples ====
If people actually find and document non-trivial examples of links to grandparent sites and this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[grandparent-examples]].

To date, no real world examples have been documented of URLs of grandchildren linking to their grandparents, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a ''theoretical'' need.

Anyone that cares to pursue this may find some real world examples to document in the following web searches (note that search links themselves are not examples, but merely a step towards finding real world examples which still need to be individually analyzed, checked against being false positives etc.)
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 search for "my grandpa's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 search for "my grandfather's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 search for "my grandma's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 search for "my grandmother's website"].

See also [[genealogy-examples]].

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:
<source lang="html4strict">
I can trace my family back to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">William the conqueror.</a>
</source>
In these cases it would be useful to have <code>rel="ancestor"</code>, and perhaps a corresponding <code>rel="descendant"</code>.
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* rel="kin" can be considered sufficient until at least some number of non-trivial real world examples are provided.

==== ancestor descendant examples ====
If this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[ancestor-descendant-examples]].
* Wikipedia examples
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother".
* See also [[genealogy-examples]].

So far only a couple of (representative) real world examples (from just one site, Wikipedia) have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a need clearly outside of the 80/20.

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== follower and following ===
The brainstorming on fans and followers and inverses thereof has appeared to settle (for many months - over a year(?)) on "follower" and "following" as mutual inverse relationship terms.

Current summary:

* rel="follower" - links to someone who is a follower, that is they are following you.
* rel="following" - links to someone who is one of your "followings", i.e. someone you are following.

Summary discussion:
<div class="discussion">
* I'd say they're ready for experimentation on websites in the wild. Once we have examples in the wild, we can promote this to a draft of [[rel-follower]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
* We've had consensus on this for a while now - consider this an invitation for anyone to start stubbing out minimal descriptions for [[rel-follower]] and [[rel-following]], and then we can add them as brainstorming values as well as register them for use in HTML5 in the [[existing-rel-values]] page. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 16:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
</div>

FAQ:
<div class="discussion">
* Q: Does <code>rel=following</code> mean that I read all their content daily/hourly/in real time?[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706665]
** A: <code>rel=following</code> just means reading some amount, no implications about timeliness, nor comprehensiveness.[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706765]
</div>

See below for the analysis and brainstorming that led to this outcome and for specific discussions.

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
<div class="discussion">
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** 0 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one, it seems to represent the implied semantics. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me. However, the point made by [[User:Donohoe]] below is a good one thus I've changed my opinion from +1 to +0 on this option.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
*** -1 Argument from theoretical example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
** -1 This seems too strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] Donohoe's reasoning below is good and I prefer 'following'
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I tend to agree with [[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]]'s reasoning. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
** -1 against for same reasons as Kevin Marks. And "subscription" doesn't sound like a term for a person. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus
* <span id="following">following</span> - as the singular of "followings". If someone is one of your "followings", then you are following that someone, as opposed to if someone is one of your "followers", then that someone is following you! It may sound a bit clumsy/awkward as a term at first, but I think that's actually a sign of novel usage, which has some appeal because then it means the term may be available for us to fill it with this meaning - or I should say, amplify this meaning as it [http://search.twitter.com/search?q=followings has been given by existing Twitter users].
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] '''following''' is the best term I have seen for the inverse of fan/follower, and paired with '''follower''', provides a good enough complementary pair of relationships to express both directions.
** Note that Google has now [http://buzz.blogger.com/2008/08/show-off-your-followers.html adopted the "follow" terminology]. -- [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
** +1 'following'is widely adopted. Lets just decide on this and get it implemented.
** +1 I think 'following' is now well understood thanks to both Twitter and Blogger using it, and worth codifying here [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* follows
** proposed by [http://schema.org/Person unknown authors at schema.org] I assume this meant to be a verb (like 'knows' ) rather than a plural adjective.
</div>

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
<div class="discussion">
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my (and others') personal anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
***** My point is that as per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rev HTML 4 definition of <code>rev</code>] any time anyone defines a new link type <code>rel=''X''</code>, the meaning of <code>rev=''X''</code> becomes defined too. This is unavoidable. We should define new link types in terms of <code>rel</code> rather than <code>rev</code> for clarity, but we can't prevent people from taking advantage of the facilities inherent in (X)HTML to mark up the inverse meaning. (e.g. [http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics <code>rev=tag</code> mention], [http://singpolyma.net/2007/05/the-state-of-distributed-social-networking/ and again], [http://styrheim.weblogg.no/311005201154_revtags.html and again]) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 01:17, 7 Aug 2008 (PDT)
****** We can avoid use of 'rev' by (1) specifically recommending against use of it as the [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|rel FAQ does]], and (2) by providing an inverse term that can be used with 'rel' so there is no need to use 'rev'. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

How about "rel-reader" instead of "rel-follower" and "rel-reading" instead of "rel-following" ? It has the more 'neutral' and 'real world' connotation of actually reading and not 'following' people around. Also refers to the traditional word for such things in the book-world as in "Neil Gaiman's readers" and "I am reading Neil Gaiman" -- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

On further thought and discussion with [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] (see: [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=1+Jul+2014&e=1+Jul+2014#c72761 IRC logs reference] ), reader/reading denote textual content which seems too narrow for the Web.-- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

=== past examples ===
Sites that previously provided real world examples of fans vs friends:
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends) - until 2008-12-15 when the site moved to read-only mode.

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady
* +1 needed by [https://github.com/open-app/core Enspiral] in their [http://www.enspiral.com/ Open App Ecosystem] as explained in [https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12#issuecomment-78043877 this github issue] &mdash [[User:Elf Pavlik|Elf Pavlik]] 22:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Tantek Çelik</span>
<span class="org">Citizen Agency</span>
<span class="role">advisor</span>
</span>
</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Influence out and influenced in ==

Needing to provide more options to describe the flow of influence I've been considering the following relationship terms that fall into two predicate groups, influence out(applied) and influence in(received).

Influence out:
* 'follower'
* 'student'
* 'subscriber'
* 'listener'
* 'reader'
* 'viewer'
* 'supporter'
* 'collaborator'

Influence in:
* 'inspiration'
* 'favorite'
* 'teacher'
* 'mentor'
* 'adviser'
* 'influence'
* 'source'
* 'collaborator'

Inline with xfn convention the terms are all nouns and refer to the far side of the link they are used in.

[[User:James Tindall|James Tindall]] 14:23, 31 Aug 2008 (BST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example:
* <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above)
** or perhaps <code>rel="teacher"</code> to indicate the distinct scholarly semantic. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor)
* <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate].
Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with the existing XFN <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code> values.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== business to business ==
There has been some discussion (on the microformats-discuss mailing list) about wanting to markup business to business relationships.

While this is out of scope for XFN's person to person links, if a page/site does represent a company (e.g. if the [[representative hCard]] of the page was an organization) and links to other company sites, it could be useful.

In particular <code>rel</code> values of:
* <code>subsidiary</code>. designates a link to a subsidiary company of a controlling/parent company
* <code>controlling</code>. designates a link to the controlling/parent company of a subsidiary company
* ...

Currently this is a theoretical example as no real world example pages of companies linking to other such company pages have been provided, and as such, there is insufficient research/usage/experience to merit consideration as a microformat.

Those wishing to experiment with these rel values, should consider doing so as [[POSH]] and document their experience here so that we have some real world examples!

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]

xfn-brainstorming

2015-05-03T22:49:14Z

Elf Pavlik: /* mentors and mentees */ documented Enspiral / Open App Ecosystem Use Case

<entry-title> XFN Brainstorming </entry-title>
{{TOC-right}}
This page is for brainstorming about various uses and details of [[XFN]], as well as collecting input for potential extensions.

== Required Reading ==
Before participating in any XFN brainstorming please read and understand the following:
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/intro XFN intro]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/background XFN background]
* [[xfn-faq|XFN FAQ]]
* [http://gmpg.org/xfn/and XFN and other services]
* [[rel-faq]]

Note that all existing XFN values were based on research that showed real world sites that indicated such relationships explicitly via text and hyperlinks to other sites. Thus any new semantics or values will be more seriously considered if URLs demonstrating existing text labeling and hyperlinking behavior are provided.

== Contributors ==
* [http://tantek.com/ Tantek Çelik]
* [[User:CiaranMc |CiaranMc ]]
* [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
* [http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks]

== general ==
* [[xfn-wants]]

== Identity Consolidation ==
See [[rel-me]] and [[identity-consolidation]]. <span id="Frames"> </span>

=== Indicating non-identity ===
I think we need a way to indicate that another page should not be consolidated into your identity. - KevinMarks

==== common name disambiguation ====
If you have a common name, creating a disambiguation page or pages to indicate which ones aren't you is useful for indexers and people alike. In fact there are examples of people already creating such a page and linking to pages that are not them. Real world use cases that would benefit:
* Kevin Kelly (the former Wired editor) has put together a page to indicate [http://kevinkelly.name|other people also called "Kevin Kelly"].
* [http://vadim.com Vadim Akslerod] has created a page of [http://vadim.com/vadim/ Vadims on the Net] that link to other people called Vadim.

==== accidental or malicious rel-me links ====
If someone accidentally or maliciously links to one of my pages with rel="me" it would be good to be able to actually deny the connection, rather than just passively not link back. See [http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com | the social graph API results for kevinmarks.com] for examples. - KevinMarks

This appears to be more of a theoretical use case (as compared to the common name disambiguation) because the real world use ''is'' to simply '''not''' link back, and I don't think we should encourage people to add links to things that are not them, nor are they likely to, especially if it is a spammer/stalker/griefer that is linking to them. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

==== notme proposal ====
initial proposal: <code>rel="notme"</code>, though very open to better suggestions.

== Extending family relationships ==

=== grandparent ===
<cite>[http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/background The XFN: Background page]</cite> says:
<blockquote>
We considered adding "grandparent," but in the end dropped the term because it seemed unlikely to be used in the near future. It may appear in future versions of XFN.
</blockquote>

Presumably the assumption is that a grandparent won't have a website, but:
<div class="discussion">
* I think it's important in some situations to capture the age difference in a relationship in a way that rel="kin" doesn't seem to.
** Additional XFN rel values is the wrong way to represent age information (even relative). Instead, mark up each person's page with an hCard for them that has a <code>bday</code> property, with even just the year if you want - that could then be used to determine an approximate age difference, which is presumably all that is desired. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* ''rel=kin'' with an age difference of, say, 45 years, might represent any of parent, grandparent, uncle, sibling, cousin or more.
** Again, age (and thus differences) should be represented by use of the [[hCard]] 'bday' property, not rel. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== grandparent examples ====
If people actually find and document non-trivial examples of links to grandparent sites and this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[grandparent-examples]].

To date, no real world examples have been documented of URLs of grandchildren linking to their grandparents, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a ''theoretical'' need.

Anyone that cares to pursue this may find some real world examples to document in the following web searches (note that search links themselves are not examples, but merely a step towards finding real world examples which still need to be individually analyzed, checked against being false positives etc.)
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandpa%27s+website%22 search for "my grandpa's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandfather%27s+website%22 search for "my grandfather's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandma%27s+website%22 search for "my grandma's website"]
* [http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=%22my+grandmother%27s+website%22 search for "my grandmother's website"].

See also [[genealogy-examples]].

=== ancestor descendant ===
Even if they don't maintain it themselves (or are deceased) there might be a URL that does a good job of representing a person.

Consider a site about one's family tree. It might have something like:
<source lang="html4strict">
I can trace my family back to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I_of_England">William the conqueror.</a>
</source>
In these cases it would be useful to have <code>rel="ancestor"</code>, and perhaps a corresponding <code>rel="descendant"</code>.
-CiaranMc

See also: [[genealogy-brainstorming#Relationships]]

* rel="kin" can be considered sufficient until at least some number of non-trivial real world examples are provided.

==== ancestor descendant examples ====
If this section gets too big, perhaps we can move it to [[ancestor-descendant-examples]].
* Wikipedia examples
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Family_and_early_life Winston Churchill, with list if ancestors]
** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Marriage Queen Elizabeth II]: refers to "Queen Victoria as [her] great-great-grandmother".
* See also [[genealogy-examples]].

So far only a couple of (representative) real world examples (from just one site, Wikipedia) have been provided, thus, per the microformats [[process]], we should not complicate a format for a need clearly outside of the 80/20.

== Simple Groups and Members ==
A very simple extension to XFN could enable decentralized group membership. E.g.
* rel="group". A person could link from their page to the page of a group that they belong to (e.g. their company, school, DJ collective etc.) and thus assert that they belong to that group.
* rel="member". The web pages of groups could link to who they consider members and thus assert that person's membership.

The relationships could be required bi-directional in order to confirm group membership, that is, both the individual must link to the group with rel="group" and the group must link to the individiual with rel="member" in order for the membership to be considered "true".

See also [[group-brainstorming]] for more on this including documentation of examples.

== fans and followers ==
It's becoming a common aspect of many social networks (see list below) that you have unreciprocated and non-friend-based connections to people. These connections are particularly noteworthy where you don't really ever expect to have your connections reciprocated, but instead are similar to the idea of "rel-muse".

=== follower and following ===
The brainstorming on fans and followers and inverses thereof has appeared to settle (for many months - over a year(?)) on "follower" and "following" as mutual inverse relationship terms.

Current summary:

* rel="follower" - links to someone who is a follower, that is they are following you.
* rel="following" - links to someone who is one of your "followings", i.e. someone you are following.

Summary discussion:
<div class="discussion">
* I'd say they're ready for experimentation on websites in the wild. Once we have examples in the wild, we can promote this to a draft of [[rel-follower]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 00:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
* We've had consensus on this for a while now - consider this an invitation for anyone to start stubbing out minimal descriptions for [[rel-follower]] and [[rel-following]], and then we can add them as brainstorming values as well as register them for use in HTML5 in the [[existing-rel-values]] page. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 16:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
</div>

FAQ:
<div class="discussion">
* Q: Does <code>rel=following</code> mean that I read all their content daily/hourly/in real time?[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706665]
** A: <code>rel=following</code> just means reading some amount, no implications about timeliness, nor comprehensiveness.[http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-08-28/line/1377706765]
</div>

See below for the analysis and brainstorming that led to this outcome and for specific discussions.

=== fan follower examples ===
Sites that have the semantic / implied-schema of "fan" or "follower")
* http://crowdvine.com/ (has fans and mutual fans and want to meet)
* http://twitter.com/ (has followers vs friends)
* http://upcoming.org/ (has fans vs friends)
* http://www.sugarloot.com (has Fans vs Favorites)

=== possible inverse of fan terms ===
Brainstorm list of possible terms (for an inverse of fan/follower):
<div class="discussion">
* source
** +1 I like this as a neutral term, <s>except that it would be better kept as a rel value for atom:source in [[hAtom]]</s> (on re-reading the Atom spec, atom:source should be a class on a containing element) [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* influence
* influencer
** 0 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] - I like this one, it seems to represent the implied semantics. If I follow someone, then they are an "influencer" to me. However, the point made by [[User:Donohoe]] below is a good one thus I've changed my opinion from +1 to +0 on this option.
** -1 Sounds like "influenza", and just because I follow someone, doesn't mean they influence me. [[User:Gazza|Gazza]]
** -1 - influence can be negative as well as positive: "The child only shoplifted because he was under the influence of older boys". [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 01:04, 26 Jan 2008 (PST)
*** -1 Argument from theoretical example. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
** -1 This seems too strong; the relationship is not meant to imply an endorsement; we have [[vote-links]] for that [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] Donohoe's reasoning below is good and I prefer 'following'
** -1 This value is assigned one of 2 ways; arbitrarily by app, or by the user. I don't trust an app to make a decision on what constitutes an ''influencer'' and I don't see a user choosing that in its current wording --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I tend to agree with [[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]]'s reasoning. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 21:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
* leader
* star
* hero
* favorite
* guider
* role-model
* idol
** -1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] These all seem too strong and sometimes imply more subordination than most people want.
* subscription
** +1 Tony Stubblebine
** +1 this one seems most neutral to me (a good thing) [[User:STHayden|STHayden]] 08:35, 3 Mar 2008 (PST)
** -1 this makes sense in a feed-reader context, but not necessarily in a blogroll one; it implies the content rather than the person [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 14:30, 24 Mar 2008 (PDT)
** +1 Was neutral, now in favor --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:11, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
** -1 against for same reasons as Kevin Marks. And "subscription" doesn't sound like a term for a person. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* of-interest
* interest
* followee
* focus
* <span id="following">following</span> - as the singular of "followings". If someone is one of your "followings", then you are following that someone, as opposed to if someone is one of your "followers", then that someone is following you! It may sound a bit clumsy/awkward as a term at first, but I think that's actually a sign of novel usage, which has some appeal because then it means the term may be available for us to fill it with this meaning - or I should say, amplify this meaning as it [http://search.twitter.com/search?q=followings has been given by existing Twitter users].
** +1 [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] '''following''' is the best term I have seen for the inverse of fan/follower, and paired with '''follower''', provides a good enough complementary pair of relationships to express both directions.
** Note that Google has now [http://buzz.blogger.com/2008/08/show-off-your-followers.html adopted the "follow" terminology]. -- [http://factoryjoe.com/ Chris Messina]
** +1 'following'is widely adopted. Lets just decide on this and get it implemented.
** +1 I think 'following' is now well understood thanks to both Twitter and Blogger using it, and worth codifying here [[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]]
* follows
** proposed by [http://schema.org/Person unknown authors at schema.org] I assume this meant to be a verb (like 'knows' ) rather than a plural adjective.
</div>

=== rejected fan follower terms ===
==== rel-fan ====
<div class="discussion">
I would propose adding "rel-fan" or "rel-follower" to the collection of XFN values -- as being something like a "contact" or a "muse" but having a different purpose within the realm of social networking. Again, given that this is showing up in social networks like Pownce (fan), Twitter (follower), and that these words are becoming common, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to even ditch rel-muse in favor of rel-follower and rel-fan (the former implying some kind of positive social stalking and the latter a kind of amiable appreciation for someone's work).

This fan/follower designation seems sorely lacking from Flickr where not everyone falls into either contact, friend or family... but in many cases, you just like someone's photos and want to be able to check in on them every now and again, similar to the way that people "follow" or "subscribe" to blog feeds... Someone who reads my blog feed could be considered a "follower" -- as in, "someone who follows my blog".

- Chris Messina

Chris, rel-fan or rel-follower would work for you to point to people who follow you, but the converse case is probably more useful, saying who you follow (eg blogroll case too). We need a good noun for that relationship that describes how you view them, that is less coloured than 'muse' currently is by being classified as romantic. rel-source or rel-influence maybe? Very hard to come up with a good noun.

[[User:Kevin Marks|Kevin Marks]] 12:57, 17 Aug 2007 (PDT)

* Hence the existence of the HTML "rev" attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 00:12, 25 Feb 2008 (PST)
** The [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|use of rev has been deprecated]] since authors nearly always get it wrong. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 10:32, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*** I'm not suggesting that we create a new microformat using rev — I'm pointing out that if we define <code>rel=fan</code> (for linking to your fans) then <code>rev=fan</code> "automatically pops into meaning". (Besides which the usually quoted evidence of rev being "confusing" to authors (i.e. Google's analysis) is flaky at best.) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 15:26, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
**** Suggesting the use of <code>rev=fan</code> (as you just did) *is* creating a new microformat using rev, so yes, you are suggesting it. And Google's analysis backed up many years of my (and others') personal anecdotal experience with web developers where >90% did not understand the difference between rel and rev. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:53, 6 Aug 2008 (PDT)
***** My point is that as per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rev HTML 4 definition of <code>rev</code>] any time anyone defines a new link type <code>rel=''X''</code>, the meaning of <code>rev=''X''</code> becomes defined too. This is unavoidable. We should define new link types in terms of <code>rel</code> rather than <code>rev</code> for clarity, but we can't prevent people from taking advantage of the facilities inherent in (X)HTML to mark up the inverse meaning. (e.g. [http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics <code>rev=tag</code> mention], [http://singpolyma.net/2007/05/the-state-of-distributed-social-networking/ and again], [http://styrheim.weblogg.no/311005201154_revtags.html and again]) [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 01:17, 7 Aug 2008 (PDT)
****** We can avoid use of 'rev' by (1) specifically recommending against use of it as the [[rel-faq#Should_rev_even_be_used|rel FAQ does]], and (2) by providing an inverse term that can be used with 'rel' so there is no need to use 'rev'. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
</div>

==== rel-reader ====
For blogrolls at least, what about rel-read / rel-reader? -- [[User:SteveIvy|Steve Ivy]]

Steve, "read" is still a verb (and [[rel-values]] need to be nouns), and "reader" would still imply that they are a "reader" of yours, rather than vice versa. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

How about "rel-reader" instead of "rel-follower" and "rel-reading" instead of "rel-following" ? It has the more 'neutral' and 'real world' connotation of actually reading and not 'following' people around. Also refers to the traditional word for such things in the book-world as in "Neil Gaiman's readers" and "I am reading Neil Gaiman" -- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

On further thought and discussion with [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] (see: [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=1+Jul+2014&e=1+Jul+2014#c72761 IRC logs reference] ), reader/reading denote textual content which seems too narrow for the Web.-- [[User:KP|Kartik]]

==== rel-subscriber ====
What about ''subscriber'' instead - also very neutral and more akin to others in the list? --[[User:Donohoe|Donohoe]] 19:55, 5 Aug 2008 (PDT)

"subscriber" is no different from "reader" in this respect, and means the *opposite* of what we are looking for. I.e. a rel="subscriber" link to someone would mean that someone is a subscriber of my content/feed. -- [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]

=== past examples ===
Sites that previously provided real world examples of fans vs friends:
* http://pownce.com/ (has fans vs friends) - until 2008-12-15 when the site moved to read-only mode.

== favorites ==
Another possibility is perhaps 'favorite', that is, people do link to favorite bands for example, which is similar to saying they are a fan of the band. Thus you could add <code>rel="favorite"</code> to such hyperlinks to indicate that that music band over there is a favorite of yours. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 17:57, 2 Oct 2007 (PDT) based on a question raised by DanBri.

== mentors and mentees ==
Though seemingly rare, I personally have found use for <code>rel="mentor"</code> and inverse <code>rel="mentee"</code> (see Wiktionary definitions: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentor mentor], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentee mentee]). I don't have sufficient evidence to even consider proposing adding these to XFN, but I wanted to capture them here as a brainstorm while I look into using them personally and research examples in the wild. I may just use them as [[POSH]] myself.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 02:34, 8 Jul 2007 (PDT)

* +1 Erica OGrady
* +1 needed by [https://github.com/open-app/core Enspiral] in their [http://www.enspiral.com/ Open App Ecosystem] as explained in [https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12#issuecomment-78043877 this github issue]

== advisor and advisee ==
Similarly, I have seen folks reference someone as an advisor, or note that they are advising someone. We could consider <code>rel="advisor"</code> and <code>rel="advisee"</code> to capture and represent these semantics.

Note that the relationship of advising a company or organization would be much better captured by noting "advisor" as a "role" property value in an hCard listing that organization, e.g.:
<pre><nowiki>
<span class="vcard">
<span class="fn">Tantek Çelik</span>
<span class="org">Citizen Agency</span>
<span class="role">advisor</span>
</span>
</nowiki></pre>

Again, I think [[POSH]] usage of these terms would make a good experiment to see if there is sufficient use to formalize them.

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:45, 29 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Influence out and influenced in ==

Needing to provide more options to describe the flow of influence I've been considering the following relationship terms that fall into two predicate groups, influence out(applied) and influence in(received).

Influence out:
* 'follower'
* 'student'
* 'subscriber'
* 'listener'
* 'reader'
* 'viewer'
* 'supporter'
* 'collaborator'

Influence in:
* 'inspiration'
* 'favorite'
* 'teacher'
* 'mentor'
* 'adviser'
* 'influence'
* 'source'
* 'collaborator'

Inline with xfn convention the terms are all nouns and refer to the far side of the link they are used in.

[[User:James Tindall|James Tindall]] 14:23, 31 Aug 2008 (BST)

== scholarly ==
A possibility that might be added is scholarly definitions. For example:
* <code>rel="mentor"</code>[Student's Teacher] (similar to above)
** or perhaps <code>rel="teacher"</code> to indicate the distinct scholarly semantic. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
* <code>rel="student"</code>[Teacher's Student] (inverse of mentor)
* <code>rel="classmate"</code>[Student's classmate].
Possible uses in Social Networking sites that involve adding your school, grading your teachers, etc. Teacher <-> Teacher would be specified in with the existing XFN <code>rel="co-worker"</code> or <code>rel="colleague"</code> values.

[[User:Navarr|Navarr]] 05:56, 13 Dec 2007 (CST)

== professional ==
* [[xpn]] / [[xpn-examples]] - proposal to extend (or replicate) XFN for business (or professional - hence X'''P'''N) relationships

== business to business ==
There has been some discussion (on the microformats-discuss mailing list) about wanting to markup business to business relationships.

While this is out of scope for XFN's person to person links, if a page/site does represent a company (e.g. if the [[representative hCard]] of the page was an organization) and links to other company sites, it could be useful.

In particular <code>rel</code> values of:
* <code>subsidiary</code>. designates a link to a subsidiary company of a controlling/parent company
* <code>controlling</code>. designates a link to the controlling/parent company of a subsidiary company
* ...

Currently this is a theoretical example as no real world example pages of companies linking to other such company pages have been provided, and as such, there is insufficient research/usage/experience to merit consideration as a microformat.

Those wishing to experiment with these rel values, should consider doing so as [[POSH]] and document their experience here so that we have some real world examples!

[[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== see also ==
{{xfn-related-pages}}
* [[hcard|hCard]]
* [[hcard-brainstorming|hCard brainstorming]]
* [[social-network-portability]]

microformats2-issues

2015-03-09T19:19:36Z

Elf Pavlik: Normatively reference RFC2119 in microformats2 specs

{{stub}}

* Normatively reference RFC2119 in microformats2 specs, based on IRC discussion [http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today#c78043]

Check out:
* [[microformats2]]