Microformats Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:MartinMcEvoy

2008-10-13T01:00:29Z

MartinMcEvoy: see also

<div class="vcard" id="weborganics">
= <span class="fn"><span class="given-name">Martin</span> <span class="family-name"> McEvoy</span></span> =
<span class="org">'''WebOrganics'''</span>.
* <span class="url"><nowiki>http://weborganics.co.uk/</nowiki></span>
* <div class="email">info@weborganics.co.uk</div>
</div>

http://factorycity.net/projects/microformats%2Dicons/images/icon-hcard-download.png [http://transformr.co.uk/hcard/http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MartinMcEvoy Download vCard]

== See also ==

[[User:WebOrganics|WebOrganics User Page]]

{{public-domain-release}}

haudio-issues

2008-10-02T08:14:06Z

MartinMcEvoy: removing issues D7, D8 and D9 Only I have issues with this

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T16:07:55Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)

*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>summary</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, and <code>tag</code>
*#** The Following discovered properties should be either removed or moved to the [[media-info|media-info]] pages:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
*#*** <code>fn</code> re-use summary from [[hReview|hreview]] The name of an audio is sometimes a little more than just the name of a song, they contain dates, artist names, ambiguous names and titles of albums.
*#*** <code>album</code> Album relates to metadata surrounding an audio not really the file itself.
*#*** <code>description</code> Description is part of the metadata surrounding an audio, again not the file itself.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D8: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html see also: [[haudio-issues#D7:_2008-09-21_hAudio_0.9_is_too_complex|hAudio issue D7]]
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D9: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T16:07:40Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)

*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>summary</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, and <code>tag</code>
*#** The Following discovered properties should be either removed or moved to the [[media-info|media-info]] pages:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
*#*** <code>fn</code> re-use summary from [[hReview|hreview]] The name of an audio is sometimes a little more than just the name of a song, they contain dates, artist names, ambiguous names and titles of albums.
*#*** <code>album</code> Album relates to metadata surrounding an audio not really the file itself.
*#*** <code>description</code> Description is part of the metadata surrounding an audio, again not the file itself.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D8: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html see also: [[haudio-issues#D7:_2008-09-21_hAudio_0.9_is_too_complex|hAudio issue D7]]
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T16:07:19Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)

*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>summary</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, and <code>tag</code>
*#** The Following discovered properties should be either removed or moved to the [[media-info|media-info]] pages:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
*#*** <code>fn</code> re-use summary from [[hReview|hreview]] The name of an audio is sometimes a little more than just the name of a song, they contain dates, artist names, ambiguous names and titles of albums.
*#*** <code>album</code> Album relates to metadata surrounding an audio not really the file itself.
*#*** <code>description</code> Description is part of the metadata surrounding an audio, again not the file itself.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html see also: [[haudio-issues#D7:_2008-09-21_hAudio_0.9_is_too_complex|hAudio issue D7]]
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T16:04:48Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)

*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>summary</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, and <code>tag</code>
*#** The Following discovered properties should be either removed or moved to the [[media-info|media-info]] pages:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
*#*** <code>fn</code> re-use summary from [[hReview|hreview]] The name of an audio is sometimes a little more than just the name of a song, they contain dates, artist names, ambiguous names and titles of albums.
*#*** <code>album</code> Album relates to metadata surrounding an audio not really the file itself.
*#*** <code>description</code> Description is part of the metadata surrounding an audio, again not the file itself.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html see also: [[haudio-issues#D7:_2008-09-21__hAudio_0.9_is_too_complex|hAudio issue D7]]
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T14:23:14Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */ updating proposal

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)

*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>summary</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, and <code>tag</code>
*#** The Following discovered properties should be either removed or moved to the [[media-info|media-info]] pages:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
*#*** <code>fn</code> re-use summary from [[hReview|hreview]] The name of an audio is sometimes a little more than just the name of a song, they contain dates, artist names, ambiguous names and titles of albums.
*#*** <code>album</code> Album relates to metadata surrounding an audio not really the file itself.
*#*** <code>description</code> Description is part of the metadata surrounding an audio, again not the file itself.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T14:03:03Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* PROPOSAL The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified by just using the following properties:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Proposed Removal:
*#*** <code>item</code> [a]inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]]. [b] How to group hAudio's is not a topic of this discussion, audio info only needs to answer the topic of the audio download itself, not the metadata surrounding it which is a topic of a possible [[media-info|media-info]] format.
*#*** <code>payment</code> is just re-use url from [[hcard|hCard]].
*#*** <code>category</code> just re-use tag,
*#*** <code>price</code> only 54% of the examples refer to a price see: [[audio-info-brainstorming#price|audio-info-brainstorming#price]]
*#*** <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code> just a different size.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-27T12:52:24Z

MartinMcEvoy: removed Issue D9 Issue is Not a topic of this conversation

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-23T13:00:25Z

MartinMcEvoy: Removed proposal, not workable

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was maybe influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] could be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-23T10:28:29Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the audio info topic */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 does not clearly answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was maybe influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001129.html microformats-new/2007-October/001129.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 03:24, 23 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-23T10:24:43Z

MartinMcEvoy: updating link to better example

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was maybe influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001129.html microformats-new/2007-October/001129.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 03:24, 23 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-23T00:30:29Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was maybe influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 15:21, 22 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-23T00:29:41Z

MartinMcEvoy: Maybe not Issue If no one is interested, why am I making an issue of it?

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 15:21, 22 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T22:33:13Z

MartinMcEvoy: Clarifying Issue D8

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the audio info topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a audio info ie: the audio file itself for example Sample rate, File Size are omitted but are part of the metadata associated to the download itself. hAudio only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general not part of the audio info discussion see: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-April/000143.html
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 15:21, 22 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T22:21:01Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

=== D10: 2008-09-22 hAudio duration should be more human friendly ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D10: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-22</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# the @title attribute of [[haudio#Duration|duration]] can be expressed in a more human-friendly way.
*#*Proposal: change to T04:46 => 4 minutes 46 seconds see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html microformats-new/2007-October/001128.html] [[User:MartinMcEvoy|MartinMcEvoy]] 15:21, 22 Sep 2008 (PDT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T16:48:02Z

MartinMcEvoy: wrong link!

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/HAudio_RDFa and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T10:44:57Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> just use tag, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/08/23/html5-rdfa-and-microformats/2/ and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T10:12:42Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */ oops! typo

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> use tag there is no need to invent something new, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/08/23/html5-rdfa-and-microformats/2/ and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T10:11:38Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> use tag tere is no need to invent something new, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete, and <code>sample</code> is an <code>enclosure</code>.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/08/23/html5-rdfa-and-microformats/2/ and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
</div>
</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

haudio-issues

2008-09-22T09:58:59Z

MartinMcEvoy: /* D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex */ proposed simplified hAudio schema

=hAudio issues=

These are externally raised issues about [[haudio|hAudio]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues are <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">rejected</em> for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be <em style="text-transform:uppercase;">accepted</em> and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec.

Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible.

== issues ==
<span id="Issues">Please add new issues</span> to the '''bottom''' of the list by copy and pasting the [[haudio-issues#Template|Template]]. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.
* You can subscribe to all haudio issues on <nowiki>webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues</nowiki>

==2008==

=== D1: 2008-01-10 Contributor ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D1: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011340.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# the wording about <code>contributor</code> could be improved to facilitate more streamlined mark-up (see above e-mail for details).
*#* A resolution to this issue is outlined in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Contributor Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |contributor|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one or more contributors.
*#** The contributor's name SHOULD also be marked up as a valid hCard Microformat. <http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard>
*#**# The |role| attribute /SHOULD/ be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized.
*#** The contributor's name MAY be specified in plain-text without being enclosed in a hCard Microformat.
*#* REMOVED:
*#** If multiple contributors are specified, without |role| specifications, it /MAY/ be assumed that the first role mentioned is the primary artist or creator.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001725.html
</div>
</div>

=== D2: 2008-01-10 hAudio Title was Overloading "fn".===

<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D2: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html] </span>
<div class="description">
The "overloading" of <code>fn</code> for both the tile of a work and the name of a contributor causes problems (see above e-mail for examples). Another example of this problem is a table, where the "artist" column comes before the "title" column. For discussion, see also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html microformats-new/2008-January/001375.html].
# Existing Resolution [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] has propsosed that <code>"fn"</code> should be replaced with <code>"title"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html microformats-new/2008-February/001468.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (first choice)
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Sarven Capadisli]] (second choice)
# Resolution 1: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] proposed change <code>"title"</code> to <code>"name"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html microformats-new/2008-March/001555.html]
# Resolution 2: [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] later propsosed that <code>"title"</code> should be replaced with <code>"htitle"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (second choice)
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (first choice)
# Resolution 3: Use <code>"audio-title"</code> As tentatively proposed by [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] see:[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html microformats-new/2008-August/001692.html]
# Resolution 4: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=prev&oldid=25667]
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] Without Reservations see:[http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703 haudio-issues&diff=0&oldid=28703]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] (third choice)
#* +1 [[User:DavidJanes]] this is the correct thing to do
#* +1 [[User:Csarven|Sarven Capadisli]] (third choice)
# Don't really care — just pick one. ;-)
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
#* +1 [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] - close this damn discussion, already! :)
* ACCEPTED ISSUE, RESOLUTION: Change <code>"title"</code> back to <code>"fn"</code> see: [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html microformats-new/2008-September/001797.html]
</div>
</div>

=== D3: 2008-01-10 Position. ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D3: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011343.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The [http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Complete_Album_Example recommended use of "position" in hAudio] is contrary to the good practice, semantic use of ordered lists (see example and suggested solution in the above e-mail; also [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001338.html] et seq)
*#* For Cognition I'm considering an extension: if no position has been explicitly marked up, and the item is <code><li class="item"></code> within an ordered list, then the position is taken to be the numerical value of the list marker. (To calculate the numerical value for the list marker, find the most recent sibling <code><li></code> element which has a <code>value</code> attribute. The numerical value is the number in that value attribute added to the count of <code><li></code> elements after that value attribute up to the current one. If there are no such <code><li></code> elements with <code>value</code> attributes, then you should assume that the <code>value</code> attribute of the first list item is equal to the <code>start</code> attribute of the ordered list itself, or "1" if there is no such <code>start</code> attribute. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 04:24, 29 Jul 2008 (PDT)
*#* A Proposed Resolution was made in this email: ( http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001751.html)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Position Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by the class name |position|.
*#** hAudio /MAY/ include one |position| element.
*#** The contents of the element /MUST/ be a number or other sequential identifier.
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#* ADDED:
*#** The sequential identifier /MAY/ be specified out-of-sequence.
*#**# As proposed By [[User:ManuSporny|Manu Sporny]] in http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001708.html
*#* [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] also Expressed concerns that the [[haudio#Complete_Album_Example|Complete Album Example]] should be marked up as an ordered list this is unnecessary as <code>"position"</code> is not related to the order of a track item in a list.
*#* A tutorial on the correct use of semantic ordered lists and hAudio is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D4: 2008-01-10 rel-enclosure does not allow for links to streaming files ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D4: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# The required use of [[rel-enclosure]] does not allow for links to streaming files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of rel-enclosure. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/livingworld_20041121.shtml An example on the BBC website] has the relevant link is below the heading "LISTEN AGAIN". (see discussion at [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html microformats-new/2008-January/001339.html] et seq).
*#* A proposal for this issue was first made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001715.html
*#* A second proposal for this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001727.html
*#* This can potentially be solved by recognition of downloadable/streamable MIME types. For performance reasons it is undesirable for parsers to be required to make HTTP requests for each file to determine its MIME type, so authors should be encouraged to include the MIME type in the <code>type</code> attribute. See the [[haudio-brainstorming#Download_links|related section on "brainstorming"]]. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* ACCEPTED ISSUE The hAudio Enclosure Specification is to be changed to:
*#** The element is identified by a URI fitting the rel-design-pattern, the rel content being enclosure.
*#** hAudio MAY include one or more enclosure URIs.
*#** The type of the file SHOULD be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#* CHANGED:
*#** The type of the file MAY be specified by using the type specifier for a URI.
*#*** As suggested by [[User:Tantek|Tantek Çelik]] in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001731.html
*#*** As Proposed by [[User:TobyInk|Toby Inkster]] on 14:41, 20 Aug 2008 (PDT)
*#* A tutorial on the importance of Type Specifiers and hAudio Enclosures is to be added to the [[haudio-authoring|hAudio Authoring]] Page
</div>
</div>

=== D5: 2008-01-10 there is no way of linking to an interim page ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D5: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011344.html]</span>
<div class="description">
There appears to be no mechanism to mark up an hAudio, expressed in plain text on page A, which links to an interim page, B, which in turn links to a file download. For example, the radio shows listed on [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bibliography/radio].
</div>
# Resolution 1: re use <code>"url"</code> from [[hcard|hCard]].
#* +1 [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] all links are not clickable/hyperlinkable.
#* +1 [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]]
# Resolution 2: use the rel <code>"bookmark"</code> [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links HTML Link Type].
</div>

=== D6: 2008-01-10 hAudio notes inconsistency ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{ResolvedIssue}} D6: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-01-10</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]</span> in [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html microformats-discuss/2008-January/011345.html]</span>
<div class="description">
*# [[haudio#Notes|The "Notes" section of the hAudio spec]] says "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content {{may}} be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using rel-license as specified above.". However, that is the first and only reference to [[rel-license]] on the page.
*#* Typing error changed to "By marking up audio content with the hAudio microformat, the expectation is communicated that information about the content MAY be indexed. This has no impact on the copyright of the content itself which the publisher may explicitly specify using the rel-license microformat". [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&diff=0&oldid=27951]
*#* hAudio Specification SHOULD include the [[rel-license]] microformat [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 11:57, 18 Aug 2008 (GMT)
*#* A proposed resolution to this issue has been made in this email http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001720.html
*# RESOLVED <code>rel="licence"</code> is not part of this version of hAudio (0.9) see:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2008-August/001747.html
</div>
</div>

=== D7: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 is too complex ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# The current hAudio specification is too complex for authors to pick up and use or write by hand. Authors would need some kind of user interface built into their environment, for example the editor built into Drupal or Wordpress.
*#* hAudio is no more complex than, say, hCard. A minimal hAudio of <code><span class="haudio"><span class="fn">I Believe in a Thing Called Love</span></span></code> is no harder than an equivalent hCard. That said, for some authors (especially those who are mostly used to WYSIWYG editors), I agree that an hAudio wizard (similar to existing wizards for hCard and hCalendar) would be useful. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#* The [[haudio|hAudio]] schema, could be simplified thus:
*#** <code>haudio</code>, <code>fn</code>, <code>album</code>, <code>contributor</code>, <code>photo</code>, <code>url</code>, <code>published</code>, <code>enclosure</code>, <code>duration</code>, <code>position</code>, <code>tag</code> and <code>description</code>.
*#** Removed: <code>item</code> inheritance pattern is too complex and may cause issues when used with [[hreview|hReview]], <code>payment</code> is just a url hAudio uses too many <code>@rel</code>'s, <code>category</code> use tag tere is no need to invent something new, <code>price</code> use the [[currency|Currency]] Microformat when complete.
</div>
</div>

=== D8: 2008-09-21 hAudio 0.9 does not answer the music download topic ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# hAudio 0.9 doesn't sufficiently answer the topic of a Music Download ie: the audio file itself it only in part answers the question for Music download stores which is too domain specific, complex and is general considered part of the [[media-info|media info]] discussion.
</div>
</div>

=== D9: 2008-09-21 hAudio/Audio RDF was not developed or collaborated on by the Microformats Community ===
<div class="vevent">
* {{OpenIssue}} D7: <span class="summary vcard"><span class="dtstart">2008-09-21</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]]</span></span>
<div class="description">
*# There have been claims that the Audio RDF was collaborated on by The Microformats Community, this is untrue as Audio RDF format has been developed by a single individual, primarily for use within a single domain and outside the Microformats [[process|process]] see: http://purl.org/media/audio, http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2008/08/23/html5-rdfa-and-microformats/2/ and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0194.html
*#* The [http://microformats.org/wiki?title=haudio&action=history edit history for hAudio] shows a level of community involvement similar to, and perhaps greater than, the development of other microformats. Audio RDF is a separate project of Manu's, and largely his own work, albeit strongly influenced by hAudio — it is arguable that the Audio RDF document should be clarified with regards to the information on its provenance, but I don't see why that should hold up hAudio. [[User:TobyInk|TobyInk]] 10:32, 21 Sep 2008 (PDT)
*#** Audio RDF only claims to be Influenced by hAudio when it was actually heavily influenced by [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia]. hMedia was prior art to hAudio and again developed outside the Microformats Community [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:22, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
*#** This issue has more consequences than just holding up hAudio it could well invalidate it because of the similarities with [http://wiki.digitalbazaar.com/en/Media_Info_Microformat hMedia] [[User:WebOrganics|Martin McEvoy]] 19:43, 21 Sep 2008 (GMT)
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</div>

==template==
{{issues-format}}

==see also==
*[[audio-info-issues]]

==related pages==
{{haudio-related-pages}}

User:MartinMcEvoy

2008-09-21T21:03:05Z

MartinMcEvoy:

<div class="vcard" id="weborganics">
<h1><span class="fn"><span class="given-name">Martin</span> <span class="family-name"> McEvoy</span></span></h1>
<span class="org">'''WebOrganics'''</span>.
* <span class="url"><nowiki>http://weborganics.co.uk/</nowiki></span>
* <div class="email">info@weborganics.co.uk</div>
</div>

http://factorycity.net/projects/microformats%2Dicons/images/icon-hcard-download.png [http://transformr.co.uk/hcard/http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MartinMcEvoy Download vCard]

'''WebOrganics Talk'''
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/haudio-rss/ hAudio to RSS] Hypertext Playlist (hAudio)
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/hFoaF/ hFoaF]: Hypertext Friend of a Friend (hCard+XFN+xFolk to FoaF)
* [http://transformr.co.uk/ TransFormr]: Transformation tools for Microformats

'''Contributions and activities'''
*[[haudio | hAudio 0.9]] http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1216/604867362_da0921136a_o.png
*[[ISO-31-1]]

{{public-domain-release}}

User:MartinMcEvoy

2008-09-21T19:59:11Z

MartinMcEvoy:

<div class="vcard" id="weborganics">
<h1><span class="fn"><span class="given-name">Martin</span> <span class="family-name"> McEvoy</span></span></h1>
<span class="org">'''WebOrganics'''</span>.
* <span class="url"><nowiki>http://weborganics.co.uk/</nowiki></span>
* <div class="email">info@weborganics.co.uk</div>
</div>

http://factorycity.net/projects/microformats%2Dicons/images/icon-hcard-download.png [http://transformr.co.uk/hcard/http://microformats.org/wiki/User:WebOrganics Download vCard]

'''WebOrganics Talk'''
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/haudio-rss/ hAudio to RSS] Hypertext Playlist (hAudio)
* [http://weborganics.co.uk/hFoaF/ hFoaF]: Hypertext Friend of a Friend (hCard+XFN+xFolk to FoaF)
* [http://transformr.co.uk/ TransFormr]: Transformation tools for Microformats

'''Contributions and activities'''
*[[haudio | hAudio 0.9]] http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1216/604867362_da0921136a_o.png
*[[ISO-31-1]]

{{public-domain-release}}