https://microformats.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Lee+Jordan&feedformat=atomMicroformats Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T13:40:40ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.38.4https://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:LeeJordan&diff=34191User:LeeJordan2008-05-14T12:00:47Z<p>Lee Jordan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Lee is a web developer educated in Interactive Multimedia Communication to degree level, having worked for regional BBC and an environmental consultancy working for Defra, is currently employeed by a large Co-operative Socitey based in Staffordshire, England. He has in the past been active in the open source community including KDE and the Wolverhampton Linux User Group and has an interest in the semantic web, accessibility, skin cancer awareness, photography and live music. [http://www.leejordan.org.uk www.leejordan.org.uk]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:LeeJordan&diff=27050User:LeeJordan2008-05-14T11:59:39Z<p>Lee Jordan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Lee is a web developer educated in Interactive Multimedia Communication to degree level, having worked for the BBC and Defra, is currently employeed by a large Co-operative Socitey based in Staffordshire, England. He has in the past been active in the open source community including KDE and the Wolverhampton Linux User Group and has an interest in the semantic web, accessibility, skin cancer awareness, photography and live music. [http://www.leejordan.org.uk www.leejordan.org.uk]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:LeeJordan&diff=27049User:LeeJordan2008-05-14T10:46:05Z<p>Lee Jordan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Lee is a web developer educated in Interactive Multimedia Communication to degree level, having worked for the BBC and Defra, is currently employeed by a large Co-operative Socitey based in Staffordshire, England. He has in the past been active in the open source KDE community and has an interest in the semantic web, skin cancer awareness and live music. [http://www.leejordan.org.uk www.leejordan.org.uk]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:LeeJordan&diff=27048User:LeeJordan2008-05-14T10:44:48Z<p>Lee Jordan: </p>
<hr />
<div>Lee is a web developer educated in Interactive Multimedia Communication to degree level and is currently employeed by a large Co-operative Socitey based in Staffordshire, England. He has in the past been active in the open source KDE community and has an interest in the semantic web. [http://www.leejordan.org.uk]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=abbr-design-pattern-issues&diff=27056abbr-design-pattern-issues2008-05-14T10:40:50Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Issues */</p>
<hr />
<div><h1>abbr design pattern issues</h1><br />
<br />
These are externally raised issues about [[abbr-design-pattern]] with broadly varying degrees of merit. Thus some issues may be REJECTED for a number of obvious reasons (but still documented here in case they are re-raised), and others contain longer discussions. Some issues may be ACCEPTED and perhaps cause changes or improved explanations in the spec. <br />
<br />
<!-- '''IMPORTANT''': Please read the [[abbr-design-pattern-faq|abbr-design-pattern FAQ]] ''before'' giving any feedback or raising any issues as your feedback/issues may already be resolved/answered. --><br />
<br />
Submitted issues may (and probably will) be edited and rewritten for better terseness, clarity, calmness, rationality, and as neutral a point of view as possible. Write your issues well. — [http://tantek.com/ Tantek]<br />
<br />
Please add new issues to the '''top''' of the list. Please follow-up to resolved/rejected issues with new information rather than resubmitting such issues. Duplicate issue additions will be reverted.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Issues ==<br />
<br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} 2008-02-04 raised by [[User:PaTrick|Patrick van Aalst]].<br />
*# The <nowiki><ABBR></nowiki> tag is not supported by IE6; to style it, you'll need to include extra html, for example: <nowiki><abbr title="2008-01-16T15:00:00-01:00"><span class="dtstart">16 januari 2008</span></abbr></nowiki>. <br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} 2008-01-01 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]].<br />
*# Abbreviations in the middle of microformat element values should be parsed. e.g for <code><nowiki><span class="street-address">New John <abbr title="Street">St.</abbr> West</span></nowiki></code>, both Operator and X2V return, at the time of writing, vCards containing "New John St. West", not the expected "New John Street West". Data is thus being lost. See [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/test example]. <br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} 2008-01-01 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]].<br />
*# How are empty (<code>title=""</code>) title attributes to be parsed? At the time of writing, X2V returns a null value; Operator uses the content of the abbr element. Such mark-up is valid, but semantically illogical. The former parser behaviour seems the most logical, but results in an invalid vCard. See [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/test example].<br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} 2008-01-01 raised by [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]].<br />
*# How are missing title attributes to be parsed? This is both valid and semantically-meaningful mark-up (the content is an abbreviation, but we know not of what) At the time of writing, X2V and Operator both use the content of the abbr element; this seems sensible, and should, perhaps, be ratified in the spec. See [http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/test example].<br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} 2008-05-14 raised by [[User:LeeJordan|Lee Jordan]].<br />
*# Search Engines indexing pages using abbr-design-design pattern may expand the title attribute in the text indexed for the description part of the search result. An example from a recent page created which was indexed by Google and included a hCalendar event marked up with the class dtstart: 2008-04-2121st April 2008. Notice the lack of white space between the dates? Perhaps search engines work in a similar way as assistive technology like screen readers in expanding abbreviations but but fail to add brackets around the abbreviation text or fail to suppress one or the other.<br />
<br />
* See also [[accessibility-issues#abbr-design-pattern]].<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
Please use this format (copy and paste this to the end of the list to add your issues):<br />
<br />
* {{OpenIssue}} YYYY-MM-DD raised by [http://yourhomepage.example.com YOURNAME].<br />
*# Issue 1: Here is the first issue I have.<br />
*# Issue 2: Here is the second issue I have.<br />
<br />
== Resolved Issues ==<br />
Issues that are resolved but may have outstanding [[to-do]] items.<br />
<br />
== Closed Issues ==<br />
Resolved issues that have no further actions to take.<br />
* ...<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[abbr-design-pattern]]<br />
* [[accessibility-issues]]<br />
* [[dfn-design-pattern]] (proposal)</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Lee_Jordan&diff=34039User:Lee Jordan2008-02-04T21:02:47Z<p>Lee Jordan: </p>
<hr />
<div>I agree to release all my text and image contributions (past, present and future), into the public domain*. Please be aware that other contributors might not have done the same, so if you want to use pages with my contributions under public domain terms, please check past contributors' user pages.<br />
<br />
Creative Commons Public Domain License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/), the original at http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ or any later version published by Creative Commons; with either a waiver of rights, or an assertion that no rights attach to a particular work."</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25417recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:54:18Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Additional Suggestions */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
*Under what terms is the recipe licensed? Microformat: rel="license". Often a page is in the creative commons but the page author has taken some text from a copyrighted page and in theory re-published the work in violation to the terms of use, adding a rel="license" to each recipe on the page? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:55, 04 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky and is important, you've found a great recipe but it's measured in "cups". temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and then there are the Europeans to consider. Lang attributes might not be useful as for example en-US and en-GB measure distance in miles for example, rel="us-volume" (cups), rel="gb-volume" (tablespoons)? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25413recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:46:05Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky and is important, you've found a great recipe but it's measured in "cups". temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and then there are the Europeans to consider. Lang attributes might not be useful as for example en-US and en-GB measure distance in miles for example, rel="us-volume" (cups), rel="gb-volume" (tablespoons)? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25412recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:44:18Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky and is important, you've found a great recipe but it's measured in "cups". temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and then there are the Europeans to consider. Lang attributes might not be useful as for example en-US and en-GB measure distance in miles for example, rel="us-volume", rel="gb-imperial"? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25411recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:39:02Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky and is important, you've found a great recipe but it's measured in "cups". temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and then there are the Europeans to consider. [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25409recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:36:12Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky, temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and then there are the Europeans to consider. [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25408recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:32:38Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky, temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is and may over estimate the measure ;) [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25407recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:31:52Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky, temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors, unless "gas mark" is used. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is ;) [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25406recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:25:45Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
<br />
==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
<br />
===Introduction===<br />
<br />
Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
<br />
The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
<br />
===Root Class Name===<br />
<br />
To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
<br />
===Property List===<br />
<br />
Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
<br />
Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
<br />
* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
<br />
Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
<br />
===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
<br />
* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
<br />
===Known Issues===<br />
<br />
* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
<br />
==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
<br />
Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
<br />
*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
<br />
== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
<br />
At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
<br />
[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
<br />
'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
<br />
===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:00, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*Conversion is tricky, temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? As an Englishman reading American text I find it hard to know what a "cup" is ;) [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==Single foodstuffs==<br />
<br />
If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
<br />
<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
<br />
: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordanhttps://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=25405recipe-brainstorming2008-02-04T20:18:37Z<p>Lee Jordan: /* Measure */</p>
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<div>= Recipe Brainstorming =<br />
<br />
Towards a [[recipe|Recipe]] microformat. Please read the [[process]] before editing this page.<br />
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==Format-In-Progress==<br />
<br />
This format-in-progress follows the restarting of Recipe development by [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] on 25th September 2007. Note that this Format-In-Progress section is intended to be edited to reflect the discussion that occurs on the microformats-new list, rather than being a free-form playground for schema.<br />
<br />
; Editors<br />
: [[User:BenWard|Ben Ward]] (Yahoo!, Inc.)<br />
: [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]] (BBC)<br />
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===Introduction===<br />
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Recipe is based on [[recipe-examples|examples]] and fields in [[recipe-formats|existing formats]]. <br />
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The recipe microformat is designed for the mark-up of instructions for creating meals, drinks or food-based items. <br />
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===Root Class Name===<br />
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To be decided. Likely ‘hrecipe’.<br />
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===Property List===<br />
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Recipe properties, with sub-properties listed in parentheses, like <em>(this)</em>, plurality indicated by square brackets, like <em>this[]</em>. Note that the draft property names may change, but their function should remain.<br />
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Optional and required for each field is explicitly stated at this stage. Fields without have not been determined.<br />
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* Title - Required.<br />
* Summary – A short introduction, accompanying statement about the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Author - An hCard for the author of the recipe. Optional.<br />
* Date Published - Optional<br />
* Photo[] - Accompanying image. Optional.<br />
* Ingredient[] (Quantity [Optional], Name [Required], ‘Optionality’ [Optional], Preparation Notes [Optional]) - 1 or more required.<br />
* Method - The block of text containing the method of the recipe. Required.<br />
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Ingredient > ‘Optionality’. States that an ingredient is optional to the recipe. Its absence should imply that the ingredient is required. <br />
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===Suggested fields for inclusion===<br />
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* License - using rel-licence attribution<br />
* Tags - using rel-tag.<br />
* Method > Steps or Method-Step[] as a child of Method. Imply ordered steps from an HTML list or explicitly mark-up ordered steps respectively.<br />
* Yield – Quantity produced by this recipe<br />
* Calories – per serving. May be part of the [measure] microformat in future.<br />
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===Known Issues===<br />
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* Mark-up of quantity would be enhanced by use of a [measure] microformat. However, such a format does not yet exist outside of brainstorming. It must be decided whether quantity is useful/parsable _enough_ without explicit mark-up of values and units.<br />
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==RecipeML-based Brainstorm==<br />
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Excerpted from [http://conoroneill.com/2006/03/21/what-if-i-suggest-a-structured-recipe-format-and-you-critique-it/ Conor Bandon's Blog entry] and derived from The RecipeML Spec:<br />
*Recipe_Title<br />
*Summary Description (one liner)<br />
*Measurement System (U.S., Imperial etc)<br />
*Ingredients (each one a separate "item" rather than block text with count/amount/range/unit broken out too)<br />
**Some (e.g. meats, vegetables) could optionally be marked up with (elements of) the proposed [[species]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:41, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** Ingredient importance (e.g. Main, Required, Optional) should be listed as an attribute of each entry. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Units need separate microformat: see [[measure]] <br />
**Ingredient Preparation: such as diced, chopped, sliced, grated, minced, etc. [[User:SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 18:55, 11 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
*Preparation Time (overall time)<br />
*Yield Quantity and Unit (4 pancakes or 5 servings)<br />
**Calories per serving [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]]<br />
**Calories per ounce [[User:JohnLeMasney| John LeMasney]] <br />
*Background Information - Optional section to encapsulate information that is useful but not necessarily required for a successful recipe. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
**Author (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Submitter (Person) ([[hcard]]?)<br />
**Source (Book Title etc)<br />
*** could use the proposed [[citation]] microformat. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 06:43, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
**Date (Of Creation or Publication)<br />
**Rights (Copyright or other)<br />
**Meal Category (Starter, entree, dessert )<br />
**Cuisine Category (Italian etc)<br />
*Instructions (text, but can contain:)<br />
**Steps (optional)<br />
***Should be an ordered list [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:46, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
***Another vote for an ordered list, perhaps in the [[XOXO]] format. [[User:AlexanderShusta|α]]<br />
*Photo (optional) [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
**Could be one per dish, or one for each (or for some of the) step(s). [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]]<br />
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== Additional Suggestions ==<br />
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*Difficulty/Notes - Perhaps incorporation of [[hreview|hReview]] to describe difficulty (using rating) and general comments (review), as an optional field. [[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
*Suitability (e.g. vegetarian, vegan, wheat-free, etc.). Possibly [[rel-tag]]. [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:57, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
*Ingredient Grouping - In baking you need to differentiate wet from dry ingredients. See also an [[recipe-examples|example recipe]] from [http://www.extratasty.com/recipe/46/cuba_libre extratasty.com] for useful grouping in cocktail mixing. [[SteveL|Steve Lewis]] 19:10, 11 Feb 2007<br />
** Maybe this ingredient grouping can be used to express some alternative ingredients, like "mayonnaise or cream cheese". [[EstevaoSamuel|Estêvão Samuel Procópio]] 15:33, 16 Dez 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Number of dishes or similary - often it's mentioned how many dishes (or breads in baking, etc) the ingredients are for. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Suitable for occations - what occations are the dish suitable for? [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
* Category - many sites categorize their recipes. [[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)<br />
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Note: Comments added ''"[[User:WilleRaab|WilleRaab]] 16:57, 20 Jul 2007 (PDT)"'' are added after looking at http://tasteline.com, example: [http://www.tasteline.com/default.ns?strItemID=showRecipe&intChannelID=&lngRID=8045&tlfo=0 here].<br />
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== Cookcamp brainstorming ==<br />
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At [http://barcamp.org/CookCamp CookCamp] in February 2007, Tantek moderated a fairly free form discussion of how to publish/share recipes. Here is a [http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ photo of the whiteboard]:<br />
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[http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/422072573/ http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/422072573_9956d93f61.jpg]<br />
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'''To Do''': OCR this and enter rough notes here...<br />
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==Issues==<br />
Please do feel to add your comments below. If this section grows too large, please create a seperate recipe-issues section. Thanks!<br />
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===Scope===<br />
*Is this intended for only food recipes, or also recipes for, say, glue, paint, dyes and other chemicals? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 14:53, 16 Nov 2006 (PST)<br />
** +1 Wondered the same. I'd like to see this extended as a general recipe for anything that can be created in a defined way/order, rather than just edible food.[[User:Phae|Frances Berriman]]<br />
** Agreed. This format could apply to a set of methods and materials, including cooking, science experiments, craft making, building, etc. - essentially any how-to or tutorial. [[User:IamCam|Cameron Perry]]<br />
** However, now I view my addition of 'calories per serving' as suspect, ;) though I guess it could still apply, since it's just a unit of energy. [[User:JohnLeMasney|John LeMasney]]<br />
***Recipe for Nitroglycerine (not recommended by Weight Watchers) ? [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 10:43, 1 Feb 2007 (PST)<br />
** The scope is determined by the [[recipe-examples]] research that is done, other musings are purely theoretical and thus discouraged. So far this means recipes means only food recipes. In addition, "recipe" in common vernacular applies primarily to food. Other uses are certainly outside the common 80/20 (note that 80/20 does note mean there are no non-food cases, merely that they are outside the 80). If you want to pursue other types of recipes, e.g. "chemical-recipes" - start that as a separate research effort per the [[process]]. [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 07:39, 15 Mar 2007 (PDT)<br />
*** Work is continuing on the recipe format now with the scope limited to food-based items only. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
*Is it possible to have special structure for the details of the operations in the cooking. For Eg. I invite you to have a look at the following Page [http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html]. Should it be possible to have special markup for the operations? Or is that going too far? Maybe we could keep this open ended so that it could be included when sites would actually be interested in including the same... Anyway the article makes for some interesting reading though it is from 1985 ;-) [[User:SudarshanP|SudarshanP]] 06:46, 26 Jun 2007 (PDT)<br />
** I think this could be considered out of scope. It's the sort of thing that would be detailed in the descriptive narrative, but I'm not sure there's evidence from the examples that this type of behaviour is common enough to warrant specific properties to hold it. [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
===Measure ===<br />
{{OpenIssue}}<br />
*Quantities play a key part in recipes, so do we feel the recipe format will rely on quantities so heavily that the measure microformat needs to be completed first, or do we feel it can exist without it and use of measure can be optional in the first version? [[User:Phae|Phae]] 08:44, 3 Oct 2007 (PDT)<br />
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*The abbr design pattern should be used to mark up measures, such as lbs and kg, measures are also not restricted to ingredients as they describe temperature too, as such should the sup element be used in the presentation of the degree symbol, within the abbr? See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=1081 BBC weather example] [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
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*Conversion is tricky, temperature is usually handled well by recipe authors. The lang attribute (optional) could be used to denote the intentional language convention of the markup, to aid parsers "convert on the fly"? Is there currently a sematic way of marking up content as being metric or imperial? (complications come in mixed measure conventions in the same text section, so lang= on the abbr rather than the ul would help). A browser could then know the text was originally written in metric and convert to imperial if the user agent was en-GB, or a DOM script equally could aid conversion from cups to oz based on that? [[User:Lee Jordan|Lee Jordan]] 20:15, 4 Feb 2008 (GMT)<br />
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==Single foodstuffs==<br />
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If "method" is made optional, this could be used for marking up individual foodstuffs in prose. for example, "I like to eat cheese for supper." would become:<br />
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<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe"><span class="ingredient">cheese</span></span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
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or simply (if the proposed "[http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011199.html sub-microformat-pattern]" is adopted):<br />
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<pre><nowiki><br />
I like to eat <span class="hRecipe-ingredient">cheese</span> for supper.<br />
</nowiki></pre><br />
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: [[User:AndyMabbett|Andy Mabbett]] 08:16, 5 Jan 2008 (PST)<br />
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== See Also ==<br />
* [[recipe]]<br />
* [[recipe-examples]]<br />
* [[recipe-formats]]</div>Lee Jordan