View source for geo-bof-2005-06-30

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= Geo Microformat BOF meeting notes =

== Attendees ==
* [http://tantek.com/log/ Tantek Ãelik]
* [http://thecommunityengine.com/home/ Bud Gibson]
* [http://fabl.net/chrisgoad/ Chris Goad]
* [http://www.arachna.com/roller/page/spidaman/ Ian Kallen]
* [http://theryanking.com Ryan King]
* [http://www.webmapper.net/ Edward Mac Gillavry] ([http://www.webmapper.net/archives/2005/07/#p112019488007352998 summary post])
* [http://epeus.blogspot.com/ Kevin Marks]
* Robert Thau
* [http://www.flashenabled.com/ Phil Torrone]
* ... add your name if you were there, but not mentioned above.

== Reference ==
* [http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/where2005/view/e_sess/7476 BOF announcement]
* [[location-formats|location formats]] background research
* [http://wiki.oreillynet.com/where20/index.cgi?GeoMicroformatNotes GeoMicroformatNotes on O'Reilly Where 2.0 wiki]

== #microformats IRC log ==

    [6:23:18 PM:] KevinMarks: Geo microformat BoF
    [6:26:40 PM:] kingryan: tantek, kevin and i are at the geo microformats bof
    [6:32:51 PM:] Tantek: doing intros
    [6:33:00 PM:] * Tantek intro'd
    [6:33:10 PM:] Tantek: Edward Mac Gillavry of webmapper
    [6:33:18 PM:] Tantek: doing ICBM meta tags today
    [6:33:25 PM:] Tantek: did a plugin/extension for Movable Type
    [6:33:36 PM:] Tantek: Chris Goad
    [6:33:44 PM:] Tantek: has been worrying about this thing for a few years
    [6:33:56 PM:] Tantek: geolat and geolon tags
    [6:34:03 PM:] Tantek: RDF fanatic/advocate
    [6:34:22 PM:] Tantek: tend to gravitate to RSS 1.0 + geolat and geolong
    [6:34:32 PM:] Tantek: Ryan King, grad student at USF, intern at Technorati
    [6:35:03 PM:] Tantek: wants improvement on meta icbm
    [6:35:10 PM:] Tantek: Robert Thau
    [6:35:15 PM:] Tantek: long history, but particular thing is
    [6:35:25 PM:] Tantek: got a project that might evolve to aggregate multiple sources of geocoded data
    [6:35:40 PM:] Tantek: trying to figure out if there is something going here that he should lead, follow, or get out of the way
    [6:35:46 PM:] Tantek: Kevin Marks, Technorati
    [6:35:56 PM:] Tantek: 12-13 years ago, did a project called "3D Atlas"
    [6:36:03 PM:] Tantek: home mapping program
    [6:36:07 PM:] kingryan: did map pins
    [6:36:17 PM:] kingryan: map pins = point + zoom level
    [6:36:39 PM:] Tantek: key thing is, wants to add some amount of zoom level
    [6:36:48 PM:] Tantek: Philip Torrone, MAKE magazine
    [6:36:50 PM:] mokolabs: see ya
    [6:36:58 PM:] Tantek: interested in helping people implement this
    [6:37:04 PM:] Tantek: geotagging Flickr photos
    [6:37:12 PM:] Tantek: using mappr site to geotag photos of projects
    [6:37:18 PM:] Tantek: it's all hard
    [6:37:22 PM:] Tantek: there is no collection of the data
    [6:37:25 PM:] kingryan: data is all over the place
    [6:37:33 PM:] Tantek: Bud Gibson
    [6:37:39 PM:] Tantek: started a company called The Community Engine
    [6:37:47 PM:] Tantek: help companies gain web visibility
    [6:37:58 PM:] Tantek: heard Tantek give a talk along with Eric Meyer at SXSW
    [6:38:03 PM:] Tantek: interested in social sharing  of data
    [6:38:13 PM:] Tantek: developed a microformat called xFolk
    [6:38:19 PM:] Tantek: geo thing for him, is a more recent interest
    [6:38:26 PM:] Tantek: adding another dimension to social interaction and archives
    [6:38:27 PM:] kingryan: geo adds another dimension to social interaction
    [6:38:34 PM:] Tantek: Ian Kallen, Technorati
    [6:38:46 PM:] Tantek: interests with dealing with data that has a geometric data
    [6:38:55 PM:] Tantek: dates back to about 10 years ago, when VRML was introduced
    [6:39:33 PM:] Tantek: today, thinking about a lot of ideas that were percolating about visualization of data
    [6:39:38 PM:] Tantek: latent data in blogosphere
    [6:39:43 PM:] Tantek: places that people reference
    [6:39:48 PM:] Tantek: places that people call home
    [6:39:54 PM:] Tantek: jetsetters that post all over the place
    [6:39:58 PM:] Tantek: homebodies that post from home
    [6:40:04 PM:] Tantek: a lot to do to unlock this
    [6:40:16 PM:] Tantek: would like to see latent data in there already, enriched
    [6:40:26 PM:] Tantek: not necessarily build more stuff to depend on RDF or invisible data
    [6:40:38 PM:] Tantek: better if it is part of the data people are already producing
    [6:40:49 PM:] Tantek: would like to define something tools could build into the creation process
    [6:40:59 PM:] Tantek: it should just be part of the natural creation process
    [6:41:00 PM:] kingryan: make it part of the natural process of creation
    [6:43:39 PM:] Tantek: http://microformats.org/wiki/location-formats
    [6:47:10 PM:] Tantek: the author of MultiMap is going to post to CPAN a perl parser for European addresses
    [6:47:39 PM:] kingryan: still reviewing http://microformats.org/wiki/location-formats
    [6:47:57 PM:] kingryan: to add: maporama.com
    [6:49:59 PM:] kingryan: GML is an xml set of schemas for representing geo
    [6:50:04 PM:] kingryan: its and OGC standard
    [6:50:17 PM:] kingryan: GML is not a mapping of a previous standard
    [6:50:36 PM:] kingryan: TODO: add archml to wiki
    [6:51:15 PM:] adamhill: nhv: any clue how good/bad is GML?
    [6:51:37 PM:] kingryan: WCS is a OGC standard
    [6:51:42 PM:] kingryan: WCS= web coverage service
    [6:52:42 PM:] kingryan: w3c has an rfidig
    [6:52:58 PM:] KevinMarks: http://esw.w3.org/topic/GeoInfo
    [6:54:02 PM:] nhv: GML could work
    [6:54:56 PM:] kingryan: mapping service urls could be considered another publishing format
    [6:55:22 PM:] kingryan: nhv: I'm just transcribing what's going on  here at our meeting
    [6:56:00 PM:] kingryan: people publish mapping site urls
    [6:56:06 PM:] kingryan: people publish named places
    [6:56:16 PM:] kingryan: people publish postal codes
    [6:56:28 PM:] kingryan: make mag. has a geo url button
    [6:57:18 PM:] kingryan: geo in rss = place that relates to the post
    [6:57:41 PM:] kingryan: gpx ?
    [6:57:50 PM:] kingryan: gps xml format ?
    [6:58:03 PM:] kingryan: ptorrone say: gps devices all have their own format
    [6:58:09 PM:] kingryan: ...garmin has their own xml format
    [6:58:16 PM:] kingryan: ...includes waypoints
    [6:58:25 PM:] kingryan: ...no one doing anything with it on the web
    [6:58:29 PM:] kingryan: ...similar stuff for aircraft
    [6:58:38 PM:] kingryan: ...convergence on gpx ?
    [6:59:08 PM:] kingryan: for geo in rss, semantics are not defined
    [6:59:27 PM:] kingryan: it just means there some association between the post and this place
    [7:00:14 PM:] kingryan something proposed by ian davis ?
    [7:00:21 PM:] kingryan: a way for creating urls for places ?
    [7:00:24 PM:] kingryan: no adoption
    [7:01:08 PM:] kingryan: tantek say: these things can be broken into two categories...
    [7:01:18 PM:] kingryan: human readable, machine readable
    [7:01:25 PM:] kingryan: kevin say: postcode a 3rd category
    [7:03:00 PM:] kingryan: wgs84 - most widely understood lat/long spec
    [7:03:06 PM:] kingryan: that's what gps uses
    [7:04:01 PM:] kingryan: tantek say: people publish mostly with names and links
    [7:04:07 PM:] kingryan: though they also do geo stuff
    [7:04:52 PM:] kingryan: ian say: could something like plazes become a translation services between named places and machine coords
    [7:05:11 PM:] kingryan: phil say: any greasmonkey translating between human and computer readable?
    [7:05:24 PM:] kingryan: bud say : could tags be useful?
    [7:05:35 PM:] kingryan: ...in hayes valley and lookinig for a gym
    [7:05:52 PM:] kingryan: could you look for the intersection of 'hayes valley' and 'gym' ?
    [7:06:32 PM:] kingryan: tantek say : may need 2 microformats
    [7:06:48 PM:] kingryan: .. vcard has done well to have an international schema
    [7:07:00 PM:] kingryan: .. field names are supposed to be neutral
    [7:07:27 PM:] kingryan: rsthau : japanse addresses have different structure
    [7:07:37 PM:] Tantek: How are Japanese addresses represented in vCard?
    [7:07:42 PM:] kingryan: is vcard in use in japan?
    [7:08:02 PM:] kingryan: ptorrone say : in japan for a year and couldn't figure it out
    [7:08:04 PM:] nhv: http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm
    [7:08:29 PM:] kingryan: tantek say: software supports vcard
    [7:08:35 PM:] kingryan: .. software has been localized
    [7:08:44 PM:] kingryan: .. did they port vcard? how?
    [7:08:56 PM:] rsthau: Structure as I understand it...
    [7:09:06 PM:] rsthau: Cities are carved up into blocks called (I think) chome
    [7:09:24 PM:] rsthau: Address is:  the chome, and the number of the building permit.
    [7:10:14 PM:] rsthau: More info here:  http://www.digi-promotion.com/tokyo-info/info-maps-address.html
    [7:09:41 PM:] kingryan: tantek ask: could we just take the adr property out of vcard and use that for publishing?
    [7:10:40 PM:] kingryan: vcard also has a property called geo
    [7:10:45 PM:] kingryan: geo is outside the adr
    [7:10:49 PM:] nhv: http://www.iseran.com/gps/waypointml.html
    [7:10:49 PM:] kingryan: no projection in vcard geo element
    [7:10:58 PM:] kingryan: rfc2426
    [7:11:44 PM:] kingryan: the spec doesn't specify the datum
    [7:11:54 PM:] kingryan: should wgs84 be assumed?
    [7:11:56 PM:] Tantek: default to WGS84
    [7:12:00 PM:] kingryan: seems to be consenus on that
    [7:12:06 PM:] kingryan: make sure that's in the microformat
    [7:12:09 PM:] Tantek: microformat for geo should specify WGS84
    [7:13:02 PM:] kingryan: who publishes in pure, visible lat/long?
    [7:13:12 PM:] kingryan: Ã¼ber geeks might, geocachers might
    [7:13:51 PM:] kingryan: microformats are constrainted to published stuff, typically exclude web services
    [7:14:06 PM:] kingryan: people are already publishing data. can we just have people mark it up?
    [7:14:39 PM:] kingryan: no, but we all have laptops
    [7:14:59 PM:] adamhill: big player considerizing standardizing geo data: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates
    [7:16:40 PM:] kingryan: can we put both geometric and human data?
    [7:16:44 PM:] Tantek: Bud: would be nice if you could combine address and geo so they could be embedded in same microformat
    [7:16:54 PM:] kingryan: bud say : can we use location tags? neighborhoods?
    [7:17:19 PM:] kingryan: could overlay these things with <abbr>
    [7:17:41 PM:] kingryan: folkcartography++