en-us-faq - Revision history

Aaronpk: Replace with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

2020-07-18T16:21:53Z

Replace <entry-title> with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

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	~~<entry-title>~~en-US FAQ~~</entry-title>~~		{{DISPLAYTITLE:en-US FAQ}}

	Frequently asked questions regarding the use of [[en-US]] for property/keyword/token names (in microformats and other formats and protocols).		Frequently asked questions regarding the use of [[en-US]] for property/keyword/token names (in microformats and other formats and protocols).

Tantek: /* why not use other spellings and languages for properties */ move "Language Maps" mention from main faq to here

2009-06-28T00:03:07Z

why not use other spellings and languages for properties: move "Language Maps" mention from main faq to here

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:03, 28 June 2009
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	=== why not use other spellings and languages for properties ===		=== why not use other spellings and languages for properties ===

	Q: Why not use other spellings and languages for properties, values, and other keywords? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).		Q: Why not use other spellings and languages for properties, values, and other keywords? (in microformats or other formats and protocols). This was briefly discussed on the microformats-discuss list as "Language Maps" but has been raised before that, and seems to come up about once a year.

	A(1): [http://www.w3.org/mid/499D9112.3090007@disruptive-innovations.com Daniel Glazman]:		A(1): [http://www.w3.org/mid/499D9112.3090007@disruptive-innovations.com Daniel Glazman]:

Tantek: missing

2009-06-03T22:35:00Z

missing </blockquote>

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:35, 3 June 2009
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	English at home, but I'd learn the other language to communicate in		English at home, but I'd learn the other language to communicate in
	the global marketplace.</p>		the global marketplace.</p>
	<p><nowiki>[1]</nowiki>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)</p>		<p><nowiki>[1]</nowiki>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)</p></blockquote>

	A(3): However, we must be aware of the impact of the Anglo centric bias in the design of standards vocabularies, and seek to minimize internationalization problems which may not be apparent to Anglo centric designers/developers, such as the problem of seemingly harmless changing/aliasing of vocabularies, AKA the [[minimal-vocabulary#avoid_the_Anglo_centric_renaming_anti_pattern\|Anglo-centric renaming anti-pattern]].		A(3): However, we must be aware of the impact of the Anglo centric bias in the design of standards vocabularies, and seek to minimize internationalization problems which may not be apparent to Anglo centric designers/developers, such as the problem of seemingly harmless changing/aliasing of vocabularies, AKA the [[minimal-vocabulary#avoid_the_Anglo_centric_renaming_anti_pattern\|Anglo-centric renaming anti-pattern]].

Tantek: no need to see also the current page

2009-06-03T22:23:24Z

no need to see also the current page

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 3 June 2009
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	* [[internationalization]]		* [[internationalization]]
	* [[en-US]]		* [[en-US]]
	* [[en-us-faq]]
	* [[minimal-vocabulary]]		* [[minimal-vocabulary]]

Tantek: added see also section and several inline references, numbered additional answers

2009-06-03T22:22:50Z

added see also section and several inline references, numbered additional answers

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:22, 3 June 2009
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	Q: Why not use other spellings and languages for properties, values, and other keywords? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).		Q: Why not use other spellings and languages for properties, values, and other keywords? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).

	A: [http://www.w3.org/mid/499D9112.3090007@disruptive-innovations.com Daniel Glazman]:		A(1): [http://www.w3.org/mid/499D9112.3090007@disruptive-innovations.com Daniel Glazman]:
	<blockquote><p>Why don't you also ask for localized c++ tokens or		<blockquote><p>Why don't you also ask for localized c++ tokens or
	javascript tokens ? Why limit yourself to HTML and CSS ? Hmmm ?</p>		javascript tokens ? Why limit yourself to HTML and CSS ? Hmmm ?</p>
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	</source>		</source>
	<p>Wonderful :-) Oh sorry, I should say Merveilleux :-)</p></blockquote>		<p>Wonderful :-) Oh sorry, I should say Merveilleux :-)</p></blockquote>

			A(2): See [[minimal-vocabulary]], an aspect of several microformats [[principles]].

	=== why not create multiple aliases for properties in other spellings and languages ===		=== why not create multiple aliases for properties in other spellings and languages ===
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	Q: Why not create multiple aliases (variants) for properties (or keywords, tokens in general) in other spellings and languages? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).		Q: Why not create multiple aliases (variants) for properties (or keywords, tokens in general) in other spellings and languages? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).

	A: In short, Tower of Babel problem. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902190926y4cf003d6p4799157ff4331c1@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:		A(1): In short, Tower of Babel problem. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902190926y4cf003d6p4799157ff4331c1@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:
	<blockquote><p>		<blockquote><p>
	Localizing your tokens automatically cuts you off from the vast majority of code in the wild. If you're a French		Localizing your tokens automatically cuts you off from the vast majority of code in the wild. If you're a French
	speaker who knows no English, and you learn French-token CSS, you can't use any of the vast, vast quantities of CSS help on the web. You can't copy-paste code (unless the mapping preserves the original English tokens as well - hope there's no conflicts, especially if you have people from multiple languages working together!). You can't		speaker who knows no English, and you learn French-token CSS, you can't use any of the vast, vast quantities of CSS help on the web. You can't copy-paste code (unless the mapping preserves the original English tokens as well - hope there's no conflicts, especially if you have people from multiple languages working together!). You can't
	even read code written by the majority of the world (and they can't read yours).</p><p>As much as humanly/technically possible, we of course want to support the diversity of languages on our planet. But in some cases it is advantageous to the speakers of non-English languages to purposely ignore their language, and use the dominant one (English, currently). Programming language tokens are one such area.</p></blockquote>		even read code written by the majority of the world (and they can't read yours).</p><p>As much as humanly/technically possible, we of course want to support the diversity of languages on our planet. But in some cases it is advantageous to the speakers of non-English languages to purposely ignore their language, and use the dominant one (English, currently). Programming language tokens are one such area.</p></blockquote>

			A(2): See [[minimal-vocabulary]], an aspect of several microformats [[principles]].

	==== followup regarding Anglo centric bias ====		==== followup regarding Anglo centric bias ====
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	Q: (more like issue) Unless we seriously discuss how this Anglo-centric bias can be eliminated, all we are doing is continuing to perpetuate a highly undesirable state of affairs.		Q: (more like issue) Unless we seriously discuss how this Anglo-centric bias can be eliminated, all we are doing is continuing to perpetuate a highly undesirable state of affairs.

	A1: Local communities should solve any such translations and aliases for themselves before involving the attention of the broader community. [http://www.w3.org/mid/uk6rp4hml4lfondegio97i4vhuth7sfnun@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de Bjoern Hoehrmann] explains specifically regarding CSS and the "color" property, but his response applies similarly to any format or protocol:		A(1): Local communities should solve any such translations and aliases for themselves before involving the attention of the broader community. [http://www.w3.org/mid/uk6rp4hml4lfondegio97i4vhuth7sfnun@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de Bjoern Hoehrmann] explains specifically regarding CSS and the "color" property, but his response applies similarly to any format or protocol:
	<blockquote><p>The time to discuss allowing alternate names for properties is when CSS users have built and deployed successful tools that allow doing this locally, like a web server module that maps "fr-css" to "en-css",		<blockquote><p>The time to discuss allowing alternate names for properties is when CSS users have built and deployed successful tools that allow doing this locally, like a web server module that maps "fr-css" to "en-css",
	or source code editors that display "fr-css" but save to "en-css". We could then discuss whether to standardize some such mappings, or make features available that allow arbitrary user-defined mappings.</p><p>If local communities can but do not solve a particular problem, there is usually insufficient reason for the broader community to "solve" it for them.</p></blockquote>		or source code editors that display "fr-css" but save to "en-css". We could then discuss whether to standardize some such mappings, or make features available that allow arbitrary user-defined mappings.</p><p>If local communities can but do not solve a particular problem, there is usually insufficient reason for the broader community to "solve" it for them.</p></blockquote>

	A2: The bias is a historical accident, inevitable, and desirable. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902191002r45d8acf0q43d5929aae749e3c@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:		A(2): The bias is a historical accident, inevitable, and desirable. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902191002r45d8acf0q43d5929aae749e3c@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:
	<blockquote><p>The problem is that it's only an Anglo-centric bias by accident		<blockquote><p>The problem is that it's only an Anglo-centric bias by accident
	(English speakers invented programming languages), but some kind of		(English speakers invented programming languages), but some kind of
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	the global marketplace.</p>		the global marketplace.</p>
	<p><nowiki>[1]</nowiki>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)</p>		<p><nowiki>[1]</nowiki>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)</p>

			A(3): However, we must be aware of the impact of the Anglo centric bias in the design of standards vocabularies, and seek to minimize internationalization problems which may not be apparent to Anglo centric designers/developers, such as the problem of seemingly harmless changing/aliasing of vocabularies, AKA the [[minimal-vocabulary#avoid_the_Anglo_centric_renaming_anti_pattern\|Anglo-centric renaming anti-pattern]].

			== see also ==
			* [[internationalization]]
			* [[en-US]]
			* [[en-us-faq]]
			* [[minimal-vocabulary]]

Tantek: drafted based on some discussion at www-style that applies to formats and protocols in general

2009-02-19T18:43:57Z

drafted based on some discussion at www-style that applies to formats and protocols in general

New page

<entry-title>en-US FAQ</entry-title>

Frequently asked questions regarding the use of [[en-US]] for property/keyword/token names (in microformats and other formats and protocols).

First, familiarize yourself with:
* [[en-US]]
* [http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#Spelling W3C Manual of Style Spelling Editorial Guideline]

== questions ==

=== why not use other spellings and languages for properties ===

Q: Why not use other spellings and languages for properties, values, and other keywords? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).

A: [http://www.w3.org/mid/499D9112.3090007@disruptive-innovations.com Daniel Glazman]:
<blockquote>Why don't you also ask for localized c++ tokens or
javascript tokens ? Why limit yourself to HTML and CSS ? Hmmm ?
<source lang="javascript">
pour (variable i = 0; i < monTableau.longueur; i++)
{
s += parserFlottant(monTableau[i]);
}
</source>
Wonderful :-) Oh sorry, I should say Merveilleux :-)</blockquote>

=== why not create multiple aliases for properties in other spellings and languages ===

Q: Why not create multiple aliases (variants) for properties (or keywords, tokens in general) in other spellings and languages? (in microformats or other formats and protocols).

A: In short, Tower of Babel problem. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902190926y4cf003d6p4799157ff4331c1@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:
<blockquote>
Localizing your tokens automatically cuts you off from the vast majority of code in the wild. If you're a French
speaker who knows no English, and you learn French-token CSS, you can't use *any* of the vast, vast quantities of CSS help on the web. You can't copy-paste code (unless the mapping preserves the original English tokens as well - hope there's no conflicts, especially if you have people from multiple languages working together!). You can't
even *read* code written by the majority of the world (and they can't read yours).As much as humanly/technically possible, we of course want to support the diversity of languages on our planet. But in some cases it is advantageous *to the speakers of non-English languages* to purposely ignore their language, and use the dominant one (English, currently). Programming language tokens are one such area.</blockquote>

==== followup regarding Anglo centric bias ====

Q: (more like issue) Unless we seriously discuss how this Anglo-centric bias can be eliminated, all we are doing is continuing to perpetuate a highly undesirable state of affairs.

A1: Local communities should solve any such translations and aliases for themselves before involving the attention of the broader community. [http://www.w3.org/mid/uk6rp4hml4lfondegio97i4vhuth7sfnun@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de Bjoern Hoehrmann] explains specifically regarding CSS and the "color" property, but his response applies similarly to any format or protocol:
<blockquote>The time to discuss allowing alternate names for properties is when CSS users have built and deployed successful tools that allow doing this locally, like a web server module that maps "fr-css" to "en-css",
or source code editors that display "fr-css" but save to "en-css". We could then discuss whether to standardize some such mappings, or make features available that allow arbitrary user-defined mappings.If local communities can but do not solve a particular problem, there is usually insufficient reason for the broader community to "solve" it for them.</blockquote>

A2: The bias is a historical accident, inevitable, and desirable. [http://www.w3.org/mid/dd0fbad0902191002r45d8acf0q43d5929aae749e3c@mail.gmail.com Tab Atkins Jr.]:
<blockquote>The problem is that it's only an Anglo-centric bias by accident
(English speakers invented programming languages), but *some* kind of
bias is both inevitable and desirable, for the reason I gave in my
email. We simply don't *want* a computer language to use wildly
different identifiers for the exact same concepts, because it
splinters the possible community of help/examples/sample code one can
use.
I mean, if Iceland had become the world's Silicon Valley in the
1980's, we'd all be programming in Fjölnir[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language) 1]. I have no idea what
the various language tokens actually mean, but I can decipher the
programs, and could get along just fine in the language, assuming we
had English tutorials for it. I would *prefer* an English-based
programming language, certainly, but the benefit of being able to use
all the Fjölnir code lying around on the web would be large enough for
me to not care that much.
The situation would be slightly different if it was a language more
significantly removed from the latin script, like Farsi or Korean. In
that case, I doubt I could use the programming language without first
gaining at least a passing familiarity with the host language, at
least enough to intuitively distinguish between the characters. Of
course, whatever language it was would *be* the language of the web
like English is in the real world, so I'd likely be in a situation
that many people across the world are in - I would learn and speak
English at home, but I'd learn the other language to communicate in
the global marketplace.
<nowiki>[1]</nowiki>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)