hlisting-brainstorming - Revision history

Aaronpk: Replace with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

2020-07-18T16:26:56Z

Replace <entry-title> with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:26, 18 July 2020
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	~~<entry-title>~~listing microformat brainstorming ~~</entry-title>~~		{{DISPLAYTITLE:listing microformat brainstorming }}
	This is brainstorming for a [[hlisting]] microformat per the [[process]].		This is brainstorming for a [[hlisting]] microformat per the [[process]].

ChiefRA: /* Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by Arthur Radulescu 14:25, 29 Jun 2015 (UTC)) */ replaced . . . with a proper property: "housing" within the code examples.

2015-07-01T09:57:34Z

Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by Arthur Radulescu 14:25, 29 Jun 2015 (UTC)): replaced . . . with a proper property: "housing" within the code examples.

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:57, 1 July 2015
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	<pre><nowiki>		<pre><nowiki>
	<div class="hlisting">		<div class="hlisting">
	<div class="item ~~...~~">		<div class="item housing">
	. . .		. . .
	</nowiki></pre>		</nowiki></pre>
Line 44:		Line 44:
	<pre><nowiki>		<pre><nowiki>
	<div class="hlisting">		<div class="hlisting">
	<div class="item ~~...~~ offer-sale">		<div class="item housing offer-sale">
	. . .		. . .
	</nowiki></pre>		</nowiki></pre>
Line 54:		Line 54:
	<pre><nowiki>		<pre><nowiki>
	<div class="hlisting">		<div class="hlisting">
	<div class="item ~~...~~">		<div class="item housing">
	<span class="offer-sale">for sale</span>		<span class="offer-sale">for sale</span>
	. . .		. . .

ChiefRA: /* Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by Arthur Radulescu 14:25, 29 Jun 2015 (UTC)) */ small correction for better viewing.

2015-07-01T09:51:45Z

Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by Arthur Radulescu 14:25, 29 Jun 2015 (UTC)): small correction for better viewing.

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:51, 1 July 2015
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	2) Existing elements:		2) Existing elements:
	item type - now optional, should become REQUIRED - it's a descriptive attribute for the "item", such as: opening, housing, product, business, event, person, place, website, url. Should be placed in the same HTML element with the "item" in order for parsers to get all the needed information by parsing this line, e.g.:		* ''item type'' - now optional, should become REQUIRED - it's a descriptive attribute for the "item", such as: opening, housing, product, business, event, person, place, website, url. Should be placed in the same HTML element with the "item" in order for parsers to get all the needed information by parsing this line, e.g.:

	<pre><nowiki>		<pre><nowiki>
Line 35:		Line 35:

	3) Existing elements:		3) Existing elements:
	listing type - required - indicates the desired type of listing, something that the lister already have or wants: offer \| want(ed?) \| intermediate(NEW! - there are a lot of businesses intermediating between buyers and sellers).		* ''listing type'' - required - indicates the desired type of listing, something that the lister already have or wants: offer \| want(ed?) \| intermediate(NEW! - there are a lot of businesses intermediating between buyers and sellers).
	listing action - required - one or more tags, suggested set: sale \| rent \| trade \| meet \| announce \| event \| service.		* ''listing action'' - required - one or more tags, suggested set: sale \| rent \| trade \| meet \| announce \| event \| service.

	These 2 properties of the listing should allways be used together and linked by a dash within the same HTML element, as they are seen as a completion to one another. Linking them together is meant to avoid confusion/accidental duplication with other classes:		These 2 properties of the listing should allways be used together and linked by a dash within the same HTML element, as they are seen as a completion to one another. Linking them together is meant to avoid confusion/accidental duplication with other classes:
Line 65:		Line 65:

	----		----


	=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===		=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===

ChiefRA: modified the hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions page for proposed schema revision to reach a draft finalization and step-up to version 1.0

2015-06-29T15:05:53Z

modified the hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions page for proposed schema revision to reach a draft finalization and step-up to version 1.0

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 29 June 2015
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	== proposed schema revisions ==		== proposed schema revisions ==

			=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:ChiefRA\|Arthur Radulescu]] 14:25, 29 Jun 2015 (UTC)) ===

			*hListing (hlisting)

			Clearing the confusions from the draft.

			The first confusion comes from the fact that "item" (currently is a non-existing property) and "listing" elements are not hierachically defined among the other microformat elements. They have to obtain a pre-defined hierarchical role. I come with the following proposals:

			1) Non-existing elements:
			''item'' - although it is used as a stand-alone element in the hListing microformat examples, it is nither defined nor mentioned as a mandatory element within hListing properties. Therefore I propose to define it and use it in conjunction with "item type" attribute:

			* ''item''. '''required'''. encapsulates all the properties of the item being listed. It is used in conjunction with ''item type''.

			See the below proposal for changing the "item type" definition and the new "hListing properties" section modified to include this element: [[hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions#Properties \| hListing properties page]]:

			<pre><nowiki>
			<div class="hlisting">
			<div class="item ...">
			. . .
			</nowiki></pre>

			2) Existing elements:
			item type - now optional, should become REQUIRED - it's a descriptive attribute for the "item", such as: opening, housing, product, business, event, person, place, website, url. Should be placed in the same HTML element with the "item" in order for parsers to get all the needed information by parsing this line, e.g.:

			<pre><nowiki>
			<div class="hlisting">
			<div class="item housing">
			. . .
			</nowiki></pre>

			3) Existing elements:
			listing type - required - indicates the desired type of listing, something that the lister already have or wants: offer \| want(ed?) \| intermediate(NEW! - there are a lot of businesses intermediating between buyers and sellers).
			listing action - required - one or more tags, suggested set: sale \| rent \| trade \| meet \| announce \| event \| service.

			These 2 properties of the listing should allways be used together and linked by a dash within the same HTML element, as they are seen as a completion to one another. Linking them together is meant to avoid confusion/accidental duplication with other classes:

			a) - they can be placed within the same declaration with "item": div class="item ... offer-sale" - when, as an exception, there is no visible text on the page attached to this tag (such as in the case of Real Estate where the action - sale, rental, etc. - where this "for sale, for rental" text is not visible on the page, but is inherited from the visited category / URL / visited menu).

			<pre><nowiki>
			<div class="hlisting">
			<div class="item ... offer-sale">
			. . .
			</nowiki></pre>

			OR

			b) - they can be placed on a lower level within the same declaration with "item": span class="item ... offer-sell" - to markup the visible text attribute to follow (such as parking place for sale, books rental, etc.).

			<pre><nowiki>
			<div class="hlisting">
			<div class="item ...">
			<span class="offer-sale">for sale</span>
			. . .
			</nowiki></pre>

			* ''lister'' - should be subordonated hierarchically to the hListing microformat, and in line with the "item" element (see the "Proposed hierarchical level structure" diagram).

			* ''version'' - now optional, should be removed as deprecated - because the version should be deduced from the name of the microformat itself: hListing (version 1), h-Listing (version 2), h-Listing3 - could become version 3, etc.


			----


	=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===		=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===

Tantek: Reverted edits by Gowrvw (Talk) to last version by Spiritquest

2013-08-25T19:49:56Z

Reverted edits by Gowrvw (Talk) to last version by Spiritquest

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:49, 25 August 2013
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	~~HOW THING THROUGH~~		<entry-title>listing microformat brainstorming </entry-title>
	~~HOW MAKE THING THROUGH~~		This is brainstorming for a [[hlisting]] microformat per the [[process]].
	~~HOW THING BE THROUGH~~
	~~HOW MAKE THING BE THROUGH~~		== proposed schema revisions ==
	~~HOW ANYTHING THROUGH~~		=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING THROUGH~~
	~~HOW ANYTHING BE THROUGH~~		*hListing (hlisting)
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** listing action. optional. one or more tags, suggested set: sell \| rent \| trade \| meet \| announce \| offer \| wanted \| event \| service
	~~HOW EVERYTHING THROUGH~~		** '''lister.''' required. hCard \| (fn \|\| email \|\| url \|\| tel).
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING THROUGH~~		** dtlisted. optional. ISO8601 absolute date time.
	~~HOW EVERYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** dtexpired. optional. ISO8601 absolute date time.
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** price. optional. text. [should include a floating-point number with optional ISO currency codes] - see the currency proposal
	~~HOW UNIVERSE THROUGH~~		** item info. optional. (fn \|\| url \|\| photo \|\| geo \|\| adr) \| hCard (for person or business).
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE THROUGH~~		** summary. optional. text.
	~~HOW UNIVERSE BE THROUGH~~		** '''description.''' required. text with optional valid XHTML markup.
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE BE THROUGH~~		** item tags. optional. keywords or phrases describing the item being offered, using rel-tag
	~~HOW THING OUT~~		** permalink. optional.
	~~HOW MAKE THING OUT~~		** availability. optional. text.
	~~HOW THING BE OUT~~		** condition. optional. text. examples: 'new', 'used', 'refurbished'.
	~~HOW MAKE THING BE OUT~~		** shipping. optional. text. text describing shipping and fulfillment
	~~HOW ANYTHING OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING OUT~~		==== Notes ====
	~~HOW ANYTHING BE OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING BE OUT~~		Please see [[hlisting-examples\|hListing examples page]] for analysis of 80/20 use case for new attributes availability, condition and shipping. I believe condition should still be considered even though it misses the 80/20 use case mark (71.2% based on current analysis) as it is included in most product-specific data submission services (e.g., Yahoo Product Submit, Google Base).
	~~HOW EVERYTHING OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING OUT~~		----
	~~HOW EVERYTHING BE OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING BE OUT~~
	~~HOW UNIVERSE OUT~~		=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed) ===
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE OUT~~
	~~HOW UNIVERSE BE OUT~~		*hListing (hlisting)
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE BE OUT~~		** listing action. optional. one or more tags, suggested set: sell \| rent \| trade \| meet \| announce \| offer \| wanted \| event \| service
	~~HOW THING THROUGH~~		** lister. optional. hCard \| (fn \|\| email \|\| url \|\| tel).
	~~HOW MAKE THING THROUGH~~		** dtlisted. optional. ISO8601 absolute date time.
	~~HOW THING BE THROUGH~~		** dtexpired. optional. ISO8601 absolute date time.
	~~HOW MAKE THING BE THROUGH~~		** price. optional. text. [should include a floating-point number with optional ISO currency codes] - see the currency proposal
	~~HOW ANYTHING THROUGH~~		** item info. optional. (fn \|\| url \|\| photo \|\| [[geo]] \|\| [[adr]]) \| [[hcard\|hCard]] (for person or business).
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING THROUGH~~		** summary. optional. text.
	~~HOW ANYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** '''description'''. required. text with optional valid XHTML markup.
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** item tags. optional. keywords or phrases describing the item being offered, using rel-tag
	~~HOW EVERYTHING THROUGH~~		** permalink. optional.
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING THROUGH~~		** availability. optional. text.
	~~HOW EVERYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** condition. optional. text. examples: 'new', 'used', 'refurbished'.
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING BE THROUGH~~		** shipping. optional. text. text describing shipping and fulfillment
	~~HOW UNIVERSE THROUGH~~
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE THROUGH~~
	~~HOW UNIVERSE BE THROUGH~~		==== Items removed ====
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE BE THROUGH~~		* version. optional. text.
	~~HOW THING OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE THING OUT~~		<div class=discussion>
	~~HOW THING BE OUT~~		* +1 I'm tending to agree with the removal of version, as in practice it has not been necessary for either [[hReview]] or [[hListing]].[[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
	~~HOW MAKE THING BE OUT~~		</div>
	~~HOW ANYTHING OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING OUT~~		* item info. optional. (fn \|\| url \|\| photo \|\| geo \|\| adr) \| hCard (for person or business).
	~~HOW ANYTHING BE OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE ANYTHING BE OUT~~		<div class=discussion>
	~~HOW EVERYTHING OUT~~		* Removal of <code>item</code> seems to be a mistake, as that is used to indicate the item itself being listed. E.g., a nested <code>hProduct</code> would be <code><p class='item hproduct'></p></code>. Removal appears to leave no way to include ''what'' is being listed. --[[User:BenWard\|BenWard]] 17:38, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING OUT~~		** +1 completely agreed with Ben Ward's point. Wide use of [[hReview]] in the [[hreview-examples-in-wild\|wild]] has shown that having an explicit "item" is both necessary and works in practice. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
	~~HOW EVERYTHING BE OUT~~		* Indeed it was a mistake... left it out of my edits. Replaced. [[User:JayMyers\|JayMyers]] 21:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
	~~HOW MAKE EVERYTHING BE OUT~~		</div>
	~~HOW UNIVERSE OUT~~
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE OUT~~		==== Items added ====
	~~HOW UNIVERSE BE OUT~~		<div class=discussion>
	~~HOW MAKE UNIVERSE BE OUT~~		* Each of the following should cite the analysis made of real world examples that demonstrates the 80%+ use case need, otherwise, they should not be added. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
			</div>

			* availability. optional. text.
			* condition. optional. text. examples: 'new', 'used', 'refurbished'.
			* shipping. optional. text. text describing shipping and fulfillment

			==== Items changed: ====
			* listing action => optional. if omitted, action assumed to be sell
			* lister => optional. if omitted, the buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists
			<div class=discussion>
			* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
			* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009
			* Wouldn't it make sense for it remain compulsory? If you are stating that the value reverts to a default in the case of an omission - the requirement is still that the hlisting requires a URI as part of the lister - I feel it should stay so that aggregation of hlisting information is possible outside of the domain it was originally posted on. It therefore ''requires'' this information to exist. Maybe the required property should be the url value and the other properties can be optional. [[User:Spiritquest\|Spiritquest]] 19:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
			</div>

			== payment ==
			Use [[rel-payment]] or something similar to indicate payment method for hListing.

			== additional transactional details ==
			Per the discussions raised in the [[hproduct-issues\|hProduct issues list]], consider provisions for providing transactional details like "shipping" or "buy/payment" attributes or similar for an iteration of hListing.

			== see also ==
			* [[hListing]]
			* [[hlisting-issues]]
			* [[hlisting-feedback]]

Gowrvw at 19:35, 25 August 2013

2013-08-25T19:35:02Z

Show changes

Spiritquest: /* Items changed: */ spelling correction

2009-10-08T09:03:35Z

Items changed:: spelling correction

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:03, 8 October 2009
Line 75:		Line 75:
	* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)		* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
	* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009		* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009
	* Wouldn't it make sense for it remain compulsory? If you are stating that the value reverts to a default in ~~teh~~ case of an omission - the requirement is still that the hlisting requires a URI as part of the lister - I feel it should stay so that aggregation of hlisting information is possible outside of the domain it was originally posted on. It therefore ''requires'' this information to exist. Maybe the required property should be the url value and the other properties can be optional. [[User:Spiritquest\|Spiritquest]] 19:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)		* Wouldn't it make sense for it remain compulsory? If you are stating that the value reverts to a default in the case of an omission - the requirement is still that the hlisting requires a URI as part of the lister - I feel it should stay so that aggregation of hlisting information is possible outside of the domain it was originally posted on. It therefore ''requires'' this information to exist. Maybe the required property should be the url value and the other properties can be optional. [[User:Spiritquest\|Spiritquest]] 19:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	</div>		</div>

Spiritquest: /* Items changed: */ discussion

2009-09-30T19:04:09Z

Items changed:: discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:04, 30 September 2009
Line 75:		Line 75:
	* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)		* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
	* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009		* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009
			* Wouldn't it make sense for it remain compulsory? If you are stating that the value reverts to a default in teh case of an omission - the requirement is still that the hlisting requires a URI as part of the lister - I feel it should stay so that aggregation of hlisting information is possible outside of the domain it was originally posted on. It therefore ''requires'' this information to exist. Maybe the required property should be the url value and the other properties can be optional. [[User:Spiritquest\|Spiritquest]] 19:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	</div>		</div>

Tantek: entry-title, auto-toc, fix heading levels, add brainstorming suggestions raised in issues document

2009-08-05T09:54:01Z

entry-title, auto-toc, fix heading levels, add brainstorming suggestions raised in issues document

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:54, 5 August 2009
Line 1:		Line 1:
	<h1>listing microformat brainstorming </h1>		<entry-title>listing microformat brainstorming </entry-title>
	This is brainstorming for a [[hlisting]] microformat per the [[process]].		This is brainstorming for a [[hlisting]] microformat per the [[process]].

	~~{{TOC-right}}~~		== proposed schema revisions ==

	=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===		=== Revised Base Schema Elements (proposed, revised by [[User:JayMyers\|Jay Myers]] 16:55, 29 Jun 2009 (UTC)) ===

Line 77:		Line 76:
	* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009		* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009
	</div>		</div>

			== payment ==
			Use [[rel-payment]] or something similar to indicate payment method for hListing.

			== additional transactional details ==
			Per the discussions raised in the [[hproduct-issues\|hProduct issues list]], consider provisions for providing transactional details like "shipping" or "buy/payment" attributes or similar for an iteration of hListing.

			== see also ==
			* [[hListing]]
			* [[hlisting-issues]]
			* [[hlisting-feedback]]

Kavi: /* Items changed: */

2009-07-06T20:00:59Z

Items changed:

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:00, 6 July 2009
Line 75:		Line 75:
	<div class=discussion>		<div class=discussion>
	* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)		* In that case, an algorithm should be provided for how to determine the hCard for the lister, if no explicit lister is given. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 17:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
			* Isn't the instruction above ("buyer/seller is assumed to be the site where the microformat exists" itself an algorithm? So, if Target.com has an item for sale and lister isn't specified, you use the domain of the web page containing the markup to identify the seller as "target.com" --Kavi, 6 July 2009
	</div>		</div>