hnews-issues - Revision history

Tantek: Reverted edits by Gowrvw (Talk) to last version by JonathanMalek

2013-08-25T19:49:52Z

Reverted edits by Gowrvw (Talk) to last version by JonathanMalek

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Gowrvw at 19:36, 25 August 2013

2013-08-25T19:36:38Z

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JonathanMalek: Clarifying principles question raised by TobyInk on 14 November 2010.

2010-12-28T21:33:20Z

Clarifying principles question raised by TobyInk on 14 November 2010.

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 === Open Issues ===
 <div class="hentry">
 {{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2010-03-29</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:Trondhuso|Trond Husø]]</span></span>
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 === Resolved Issues ===
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 ** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 ** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
-** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE.  ADDED: [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]'s recommendation from 15 October 2009.
+** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE.  ADDED: [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]'s recommendation from 15 October 2009. [[User:JonathanMalek|JonathanMalek]] 21:33, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
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JonathanMalek: Updated MarkNg's open issue from 14 October 2009, to resolved.

2010-12-28T21:23:46Z

Updated MarkNg's open issue from 14 October 2009, to resolved.

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:23, 28 December 2010
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			=== Resolved Issues ===

	<div class="hentry">		<div class="hentry">
	{{~~OpenIssue~~}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg\|MarkNg]]</span></span>		{{ResolvedIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"><span class="published">2009-10-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:MarkNg\|MarkNg]]</span></span>
	<div class="entry-content discussion issues">		<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
	* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".		* <strong class="entry-title">adr for dateline</strong>. From [http://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/4831500605 Andy Mabbett on Twitter] : hNews microformat spec "dateline. optional. Using text or hCard" should read "dateline. optional. Using text, adr or hCard".
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	** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)		** Agreed, makes sense. --[[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 00:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
	** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)		** +1 to addition of optional "adr" markup of "dateline", but should also allow "geo" markup of "dateline" as well. i.e. change: <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded in an hCard.</p></blockquote> to <blockquote><p>* a dateline element MAY be encoded with an [[adr]], [[geo]], or [[hCard]] on the same element.</p></blockquote> [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 19:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
			** ACCEPTED SPEC UPDATE. ADDED: [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]]'s recommendation from 15 October 2009.
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	~~=== Resolved Issues ===~~

	<div class="hentry">		<div class="hentry">

Tantek: /* Open Issues */ +1

2010-12-05T22:23:27Z

Open Issues: +1

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 5 December 2010
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	*** This was the interpretation I'd always assumed, and hoped was the case as it seems most useful. Could somebody update the [[hnews]] page on the wiki to clarify the definition? [[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]] 10:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)		*** This was the interpretation I'd always assumed, and hoped was the case as it seems most useful. Could somebody update the [[hnews]] page on the wiki to clarify the definition? [[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]] 10:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
	*** So the proposal as it stands is to change: <blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story.</p></blockquote> to:<blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics ''adhered to'' by the news organization ''and/or individual'' that produced the news story ''at the time of writing''.</p></blockquote> I will let this sit for a bit, and if there are no objections, I will update the [[hnews]] page. [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 15:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)		*** So the proposal as it stands is to change: <blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story.</p></blockquote> to:<blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics ''adhered to'' by the news organization ''and/or individual'' that produced the news story ''at the time of writing''.</p></blockquote> I will let this sit for a bit, and if there are no objections, I will update the [[hnews]] page. [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 15:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
			*** +1 on JonathanMalek's proposed resolution and changes. - [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 22:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
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JonathanMalek: Using language for Martin Moore to clarify principles definition (proposal)

2010-12-05T15:23:59Z

Using language for Martin Moore to clarify principles definition (proposal)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:23, 5 December 2010
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	* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.		* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.
	** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek ~~begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting~~\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)		** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
	** Good question Toby. The underlying basis of rel-principles has always been 'the principles that apply to this article'. Therefore if the article was written and published under certain principles then it should link to those principles even if the principles of the organisation subsequently change. The purpose of this is so that the reader can always tell under what principles a particular item of news was produced. Therefore rel-principles has to remain flexible by article rather than by author. For this reason I think it is better that it remain part of hNews rather than as an extension to hCard [[User:Martinjemoore\|Martin Moore]] 16 November 2010		** Good question Toby. The underlying basis of rel-principles has always been 'the principles that apply to this article'. Therefore if the article was written and published under certain principles then it should link to those principles even if the principles of the organisation subsequently change. The purpose of this is so that the reader can always tell under what principles a particular item of news was produced. Therefore rel-principles has to remain flexible by article rather than by author. For this reason I think it is better that it remain part of hNews rather than as an extension to hCard [[User:Martinjemoore\|Martin Moore]] 16 November 2010
	*** This was the interpretation I'd always assumed, and hoped was the case as it seems most useful. Could somebody update the [[hnews]] page on the wiki to clarify the definition? [[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]] 10:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)		*** This was the interpretation I'd always assumed, and hoped was the case as it seems most useful. Could somebody update the [[hnews]] page on the wiki to clarify the definition? [[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]] 10:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
			*** So the proposal as it stands is to change: <blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story.</p></blockquote> to:<blockquote><p>* principles represents the statement of principles and ethics ''adhered to'' by the news organization ''and/or individual'' that produced the news story ''at the time of writing''.</p></blockquote> I will let this sit for a bit, and if there are no objections, I will update the [[hnews]] page. [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 15:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
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TobyInk: /* Open Issues */ request for someone to clarify the spec

2010-11-30T10:34:42Z

Open Issues: request for someone to clarify the spec

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:34, 30 November 2010
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	** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)		** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
	** Good question Toby. The underlying basis of rel-principles has always been 'the principles that apply to this article'. Therefore if the article was written and published under certain principles then it should link to those principles even if the principles of the organisation subsequently change. The purpose of this is so that the reader can always tell under what principles a particular item of news was produced. Therefore rel-principles has to remain flexible by article rather than by author. For this reason I think it is better that it remain part of hNews rather than as an extension to hCard [[User:Martinjemoore\|Martin Moore]] 16 November 2010		** Good question Toby. The underlying basis of rel-principles has always been 'the principles that apply to this article'. Therefore if the article was written and published under certain principles then it should link to those principles even if the principles of the organisation subsequently change. The purpose of this is so that the reader can always tell under what principles a particular item of news was produced. Therefore rel-principles has to remain flexible by article rather than by author. For this reason I think it is better that it remain part of hNews rather than as an extension to hCard [[User:Martinjemoore\|Martin Moore]] 16 November 2010
			*** This was the interpretation I'd always assumed, and hoped was the case as it seems most useful. Could somebody update the [[hnews]] page on the wiki to clarify the definition? [[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]] 10:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
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Martinjemoore: /* Open Issues */

2010-11-16T16:36:05Z

Open Issues

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:36, 16 November 2010
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	<div class="entry-content discussion issues">		<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
	* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.		* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.
	** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)		** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
			** Good question Toby. The underlying basis of rel-principles has always been 'the principles that apply to this article'. Therefore if the article was written and published under certain principles then it should link to those principles even if the principles of the organisation subsequently change. The purpose of this is so that the reader can always tell under what principles a particular item of news was produced. Therefore rel-principles has to remain flexible by article rather than by author. For this reason I think it is better that it remain part of hNews rather than as an extension to hCard [[User:Martinjemoore\|Martin Moore]] 16 November 2010
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JonathanMalek: minor clean-ups

2010-11-15T04:46:23Z

minor clean-ups

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:46, 15 November 2010
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	{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"> <span class="published">2010-11-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]]</span></span>		{{OpenIssue}} <span class="entry-summary author vcard"> <span class="published">2010-11-14</span> raised by <span class="fn">[[User:TobyInk\|TobyInk]]</span></span>
	<div class="entry-content discussion issues">		<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
	* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.~~</dd>~~		* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.
	** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)		** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
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	* <strong class="entry-title">Add lead class/tag</strong>. An article consists of a title, lead and the body content. I would very much like to see the lead attribute/tag being added. I see two possible usages: 1) In a world of AJAX you could show the content related to the lead-part + Click here for more. When you click the link the rest of the article becomes visible. Or it can be used in parts where you load to a title/lead carousel. 2) In RSS/Atom the Lead-part is what you would like to see in the description part of the feed.		* <strong class="entry-title">Add lead class/tag</strong>. An article consists of a title, lead and the body content. I would very much like to see the lead attribute/tag being added. I see two possible usages: 1) In a world of AJAX you could show the content related to the lead-part + Click here for more. When you click the link the rest of the article becomes visible. Or it can be used in parts where you load to a title/lead carousel. 2) In RSS/Atom the Lead-part is what you would like to see in the description part of the feed.
	** Trond, I really like the idea. I suggest taking a look at using [http://microformats.org/wiki/hAtom#Entry_Summary hAtom entry-summary] for this purpose. I feel the lead paragraph of the typical upside-pyramid-style news story is an ideal value for the [http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format-spec.php#element.summary atom:summary] element. And, by re-using the hAtom conventions in this way, your news item will be semantically available to software focusing on both hAtom and hNews. The Associated Press interpreted Atom in this way, as illustrated by one of [http://hosted.ap.org/lineups/TOPHEADS-atom_0.3.xml?SITE=CAANG&SECTION=HOME AP's public Atom feeds]. [[User:gut1975\|Guthrie Collin]] 14:25, 01 April 2010 (UTC)		** Trond, I really like the idea. I suggest taking a look at using [http://microformats.org/wiki/hAtom#Entry_Summary hAtom entry-summary] for this purpose. I feel the lead paragraph of the typical upside-pyramid-style news story is an ideal value for the [http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/atom-format-spec.php#element.summary atom:summary] element. And, by re-using the hAtom conventions in this way, your news item will be semantically available to software focusing on both hAtom and hNews. The Associated Press interpreted Atom in this way, as illustrated by one of [http://hosted.ap.org/lineups/TOPHEADS-atom_0.3.xml?SITE=CAANG&SECTION=HOME AP's public Atom feeds]. [[User:gut1975\|Guthrie Collin]] 14:25, 01 April 2010 (UTC)
	** Follow-up comment #2
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JonathanMalek: Response to "meaning of rel-principles"

2010-11-15T04:45:42Z

Response to "meaning of rel-principles"

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:45, 15 November 2010
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	<div class="entry-content discussion issues">		<div class="entry-content discussion issues">
	* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.</dd>		* <strong class="entry-title">Meaning of rel=principles</strong>. It's currently defined as "represents the statement of principles and ethics used by the news organization that produced the news story" - but are those the principles the ones used by the organisation at the time the article was written, or are they the principles that are being used by the organisation currently? If the latter, this property might be better as an extension to hCard. Either way, I think it should be clarified.</dd>
			** An interesting distinction, and not one I think that was discussed at any point, as far as I can see in my notes. I agree, clarification is needed. I have a feeling that the second option (the principles that are being used by the organization currently) is much simpler, and so more likely to be used. I also agree in part with your point about extending hCard in that case, as the principles apply to the [http://microformats.org/wiki/hnews#Additional_Fields source-org], rather than to the article itself. However, what about those cases where the source organization applies different principles for different types of content? For instance, an opinion piece? [[User:JonathanMalek\|JonathanMalek]] 04:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
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