AndyMabbett: template

2008-02-12T10:45:40Z

template

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:45, 12 February 2008
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	:For clarification, it is true that the spec does call for a microformat include to be ignored (content-neutral) when its data isn't being accessed. My Ajax suggestion is valid for those of us extracting microformat data client-side, but feel free to use it from an XHR callback instead of a window load event. Also, it would seem that without adjusting the DOM by cloning the repeated nodes, implementers would have to roll their own smart traversal functions rather than using built-in or well-defined CSS, XPath, E4X, etc. My feedback is that it's usually easier/faster to complete the tree than leave it sparse and memory-efficient, but it would be nice if the spec could leave enough wiggle room for both alternatives.		:For clarification, it is true that the spec does call for a microformat include to be ignored (content-neutral) when its data isn't being accessed. My Ajax suggestion is valid for those of us extracting microformat data client-side, but feel free to use it from an XHR callback instead of a window load event. Also, it would seem that without adjusting the DOM by cloning the repeated nodes, implementers would have to roll their own smart traversal functions rather than using built-in or well-defined CSS, XPath, E4X, etc. My feedback is that it's usually easier/faster to complete the tree than leave it sparse and memory-efficient, but it would be nice if the spec could leave enough wiggle room for both alternatives.
	:-- [[User:RichHall\|RichHall]] 12:47, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)		:-- [[User:RichHall\|RichHall]] 12:47, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

			==Template==

			{{issues-format}}

	==Related Pages==		==Related Pages==
	{{include-pattern-related-pages}}		{{include-pattern-related-pages}}

AndyMabbett: move temapltes frmo headings to body text to declutter and preserve permalinks

2008-02-12T10:44:38Z

move temapltes frmo headings to body text to declutter and preserve permalinks

BenWard: Updated feedback page to address issues. In future, we need to keep tighter separation between something being feedback and an issue itself.

2008-02-12T03:23:41Z

Updated feedback page to address issues. In future, we need to keep tighter separation between something being feedback and an issue itself.

Show changes

VinceVeselosky: /* Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing */

2008-01-24T13:46:02Z

Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:46, 24 January 2008
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	In response, a [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page] consisting of a number of empty hyperlinks in the style suggested by the pattern has been created. A 'good' result is that none of the links be read out.		In response, a [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page] consisting of a number of empty hyperlinks in the style suggested by the pattern has been created. A 'good' result is that none of the links be read out.

			=== Test Results from Yahoo! Accessibility ===
			Tests by Mike Davies and members of the Yahoo! Accessibility Stakeholders group can be found at [http://yuiblog.com/blog/2008/01/23/empty-links/ Empty Links and Screen Readers].

			<blockquote>The conclusion is that the most accessible link is one that contains link text. Different techniques of hiding links, from no link text, through to hiding by CSS can cause an accessibility barrier to screen reader users. Each screen reader presented its user with a different set of problems and barriers.
			</blockquote>

			The article contains tables describing the behaviors of different screen readers in a number of scenarios.

			(added by: [[User:VinceVeselosky\|VinceVeselosky]] 05:46, 24 Jan 2008 (PST) )

	=== Test Results: JAWS 7.0 with Firefox 1.5/Win ===		=== Test Results: JAWS 7.0 with Firefox 1.5/Win ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:31, 20 December 2008
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	~~rolcarocna~~
	<h1> Include Pattern Feedback </h1>		<h1> Include Pattern Feedback </h1>
	{{TOC-right}}		{{TOC-right}}
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	== Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==		== Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==

	{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This issue needs clarification of the ~~âmajor issuesâ~~ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.		{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This issue needs clarification of the ‘major issues’ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.

	My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].		My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:58, 20 December 2008
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			rolcarocna
	<h1> Include Pattern Feedback </h1>		<h1> Include Pattern Feedback </h1>
	{{TOC-right}}		{{TOC-right}}
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	== Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==		== Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==

	{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This issue needs clarification of the ~~‘major issues’~~ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.		{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This issue needs clarification of the âmajor issuesâ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.

	My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].		My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:27, 5 July 2008
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	</div>		</div>
	</div>		</div>
			* +1 for removal. On a tightly secured browser <nowiki><object></nowiki> elements are removed or filtered out or just not loaded at all (don't want arbitrary external applications launching from an <nowiki><object></nowiki> element on a malicious web page). [[User:Bob Jonkman\|Bob Jonkman]] 14:27, 5 Jul 2008 (PDT)

	== Objects and Browser Behavior ==		== Objects and Browser Behavior ==

include-pattern-feedback - Revision history

RyanKing: Reverted edits by RicvaRvard (Talk) to last version by Brian

RicvaRvard: sitletooura

Brian: Reverted edits by EltviVarol (Talk) to last version by Bob Jonkman

EltviVarol: ligetrodom

Bob Jonkman: /* Removal of

Csarven: Proposal to remove

AndyMabbett: template

AndyMabbett: move temapltes frmo headings to body text to declutter and preserve permalinks

BenWard: Updated feedback page to address issues. In future, we need to keep tighter separation between something being feedback and an issue itself.

VinceVeselosky: /* Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing */

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 {{TOC-right}}
 Feedback about [[include-pattern]].
 == Objects and Browser Behavior ==
 {{OpenIssue}} <strong>This is still open: To close it we need to version numbers of the affected browsers to add to the main documentation. The issue itself is how handled by using the hyperlink pattern.</strong>
@@ Line 12: / Line 27: @@
 -- AndyBaio 29 Jun 2006
 == Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:44, 12 February 2008
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	Feedback about [[include-pattern]].		Feedback about [[include-pattern]].

	== ~~{{OpenIssue}}~~ Objects and Browser Behavior ==		== Objects and Browser Behavior ==

	<strong>This is still open: To close it we need to version numbers of the affected browsers to add to the main documentation. The issue itself is how handled by using the hyperlink pattern.</strong>		{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This is still open: To close it we need to version numbers of the affected browsers to add to the main documentation. The issue itself is how handled by using the hyperlink pattern.</strong>

	Over at Yahoo! Local, we were using the object include pattern for all our [[hreview\|hReviews]] on business detail pages and review listings. That is, until we realized that Safari and Internet Explorer both try to embed the entire page with every OBJECT call. (Firefox correctly recognizes that it's a local object and doesn't reload anything.)		Over at Yahoo! Local, we were using the object include pattern for all our [[hreview\|hReviews]] on business detail pages and review listings. That is, until we realized that Safari and Internet Explorer both try to embed the entire page with every OBJECT call. (Firefox correctly recognizes that it's a local object and doesn't reload anything.)
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	-- AndyBaio 29 Jun 2006		-- AndyBaio 29 Jun 2006

	==~~{{OpenIssue}}~~ Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==		== Safari 2.x OBJECT element handling==

	<strong>This issue needs clarification of the ‘major issues’ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.		{{OpenIssue}} <strong>This issue needs clarification of the ‘major issues’ referred to, Safari version numbers involved, whether they are still present in later builds of Safari 2, or in builds of Safari 3</strong>.

	My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].		My hResume page [http://robert.o-rourke.org seen here] caused Safari <ins>2.0</ins> some major issues. The page was jumping between object elements when a link was hovered eventually causing the browser to crash. You can follow the thread on the [http://www.mail-archive.com/listdad%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg06078.html WSG mail archive].
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	--[[User:WizardIsHungry\|Jon Williams]] 10:21, 7 Feb 2007 (PST)		--[[User:WizardIsHungry\|Jon Williams]] 10:21, 7 Feb 2007 (PST)

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Hyperlink Include - issues for keyboard users (including Screen Reader users) ==		== Hyperlink Include - issues for keyboard users (including Screen Reader users) ==

	<strong>Issue is now resolved, main documentation requires inner text for hyperlinks, disallows hiding of links with negative margins.</strong>		{{ClosedIssue}} <strong>Issue is now resolved, main documentation requires inner text for hyperlinks, disallows hiding of links with negative margins.</strong>

	Although invisible in visual user agents, and (according to the JAWS 7.0 test below) not spoken by screen readers (at least not by JAWS 7.0), empty links are still contained in the normal tab cycle. Users navigating via keyboard (or equivalent, e.g. switch access, puff/blow devices, etc) will still need to tab through the empty links (tested in Firefox 2.0, IE 6, IE 7; Opera 9.2 seems to remove empty links from tab cycle).		Although invisible in visual user agents, and (according to the JAWS 7.0 test below) not spoken by screen readers (at least not by JAWS 7.0), empty links are still contained in the normal tab cycle. Users navigating via keyboard (or equivalent, e.g. switch access, puff/blow devices, etc) will still need to tab through the empty links (tested in Firefox 2.0, IE 6, IE 7; Opera 9.2 seems to remove empty links from tab cycle).
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	-- [[User:PatrickLauke\|Patrick H. Lauke]] 28 Apr 2007		-- [[User:PatrickLauke\|Patrick H. Lauke]] 28 Apr 2007

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing ==		== Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing ==

	<strong>The documentation has been updated to reflect this research</strong>		{{ClosedIssue}} <strong>The documentation has been updated to reflect this research</strong>

	Some [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004693.html concerns have been raised] over the implications using empty hyperlinks may have on assistive devices such as screen readers. One concern is that an empty link may be read out, partially read out or result in some other confusing scenario for the user.		Some [http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004693.html concerns have been raised] over the implications using empty hyperlinks may have on assistive devices such as screen readers. One concern is that an empty link may be read out, partially read out or result in some other confusing scenario for the user.
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	The example above has been incorrectly stated, to be honest. Conclusion was just a conclusion for that verbal test, not overall. Therefore, removed "Conclusion" line so it's not misleading! I concur with additional tests are vital (by as many people/softwares/scenarios as possible!). [[User:Phae\|Phae]] 04:10, 2 May 2007 (PDT)		The example above has been incorrectly stated, to be honest. Conclusion was just a conclusion for that verbal test, not overall. Therefore, removed "Conclusion" line so it's not misleading! I concur with additional tests are vital (by as many people/softwares/scenarios as possible!). [[User:Phae\|Phae]] 04:10, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

	=={{ClosedIssue}} ~~Proprietary attribute ==~~		== Proprietary attribute ==
	<s>
			{{ClosedIssue}} <s>
	HTML tidy on the [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page] gives:		HTML tidy on the [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page] gives:
	:Warning: <a> proprietary attribute "data"		:Warning: <a> proprietary attribute "data"
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	2006-10-25: This error has been corrected on the [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page]. Any tests should probably be re-run in light of this.		2006-10-25: This error has been corrected on the [http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html test page]. Any tests should probably be re-run in light of this.

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Unclear status ==		== Unclear status ==

	<strong>Resolved by explicitly stating that the include-pattern is a design pattern in the introduction, and the documentation itself now makes reference to which specifications the pattern applies to (and that specifications must explicitly cite the include-pattern, that it doesn't apply to everything.</strong>		{{ClosedIssue}} <strong>Resolved by explicitly stating that the include-pattern is a design pattern in the introduction, and the documentation itself now makes reference to which specifications the pattern applies to (and that specifications must explicitly cite the include-pattern, that it doesn't apply to everything.</strong>

	It's not clear, either from the main Wiki page or [[include-pattern]], whether this is an agreed standard, a draft, or just a proposal. [[User:AndyMabbett\|AndyMabbett]] 03:14, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)		It's not clear, either from the main Wiki page or [[include-pattern]], whether this is an agreed standard, a draft, or just a proposal. [[User:AndyMabbett\|AndyMabbett]] 03:14, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)
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	***ACCEPTED. Will further clarify relationship between patterns and formats. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 16:48, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)		***ACCEPTED. Will further clarify relationship between patterns and formats. [[User:Tantek\|Tantek]] 16:48, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Parsing for include-pattern==		==Parsing for include-pattern==

	<strong>Note: this issue is obsolete. On a [http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2007-01-03#T165528 IRC conversation 2007-01-03], Mike Kaply admitted that he figured this out, which is to apply all includes first into the parse tree before looking for any properties.</strong> -Tantek		{{ClosedIssue}} <strong>Note: this issue is obsolete. On a [http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2007-01-03#T165528 IRC conversation 2007-01-03], Mike Kaply admitted that he figured this out, which is to apply all includes first into the parse tree before looking for any properties.</strong> -Tantek

	''To be more specific, what finally occurred to me is that the object pattern is simply about grabbing nodes from another vcard and using them in this vcard. So the implementor responsibility is just to clone the dom node from the other vcard and replace the object with the corresponding nodes. Works great. (of course I also had to clone the entire vcard since I can't manipulate the DOM like that without changing the page) -mkaply''		''To be more specific, what finally occurred to me is that the object pattern is simply about grabbing nodes from another vcard and using them in this vcard. So the implementor responsibility is just to clone the dom node from the other vcard and replace the object with the corresponding nodes. Works great. (of course I also had to clone the entire vcard since I can't manipulate the DOM like that without changing the page) -mkaply''
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	<pre><nowiki><object		<pre><nowiki><object
	class="include fn" data="#vcard-name">myname</object> </nowiki></pre>		class="include fn" data="#vcard-name">myname</object> </nowiki></pre>


	Additionally, I pointed out that using the <code><object></code> element to contain the reference makes Microsoft's Internet Explorer throw an error "Your current security settings prohibit ActiveX controls on this page. As a result, the page may not display correctly." Of course, there is no ActiveX content on an include-pattern.		Additionally, I pointed out that using the <code><object></code> element to contain the reference makes Microsoft's Internet Explorer throw an error "Your current security settings prohibit ActiveX controls on this page. As a result, the page may not display correctly." Of course, there is no ActiveX content on an include-pattern.
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	[[User:Bob Jonkman\|Bob Jonkman]] 21:15, 2 Jan 2007 (PST)#		[[User:Bob Jonkman\|Bob Jonkman]] 21:15, 2 Jan 2007 (PST)#

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Concatenating values==		== Concatenating values==

	<strong>This issue proposes a fragment URL structure that is incompatible with hyperlinks, and so cannot be integrated with the current include pattern mechanisms.</strong>		{{ClosedIssue}} <strong>This issue proposes a fragment URL structure that is incompatible with hyperlinks, and so cannot be integrated with the current include pattern mechanisms.</strong>

	I feel that there should be a way to "include" data from two places, in one microformat property. For instance:		I feel that there should be a way to "include" data from two places, in one microformat property. For instance:
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	:'''January Kidderminster Branch Indoor Meeting'''		:'''January Kidderminster Branch Indoor Meeting'''


	It may even be possible to include extra data:		It may even be possible to include extra data:
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	:Fully disclosure: My XSLT transformer supports this implicitly because it does include-pattern first, then pulls values. My only question would be what to do with nested @class="value" elements that could result from this. [[User:DerrickPallas\|Derrick Pallas]] 12:35, 31 Jan 2007 (PST)		:Fully disclosure: My XSLT transformer supports this implicitly because it does include-pattern first, then pulls values. My only question would be what to do with nested @class="value" elements that could result from this. [[User:DerrickPallas\|Derrick Pallas]] 12:35, 31 Jan 2007 (PST)

	==~~{{ClosedIssue}}~~ Script for client-side processing of include-pattern==		== Script for client-side processing of include-pattern==

	Can you use the hyperlink option with DHMTL/Ajax to perform replacements in advanced browsers? (Simon Willison's <code>[http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/03/25/getElementsBySelector getElementsBySelector()]</code> may be helpful)		{{ClosedIssue}} Can you use the hyperlink option with DHMTL/Ajax to perform replacements in advanced browsers? (Simon Willison's <code>[http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/03/25/getElementsBySelector getElementsBySelector()]</code> may be helpful)
	<a href="#id" class="include" title=""></a>		<a href="#id" class="include" title=""></a>
	with something like:		with something like: