value-excerption-dt-separation-test - Revision history

Aaronpk: Replace with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

2020-07-18T16:34:40Z

Replace <entry-title> with {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:34, 18 July 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	~~<entry-title>~~Value Excerption Pattern: special parsing 'value' in date-time properties~~</entry-title>~~		{{DISPLAYTITLE:Value Excerption Pattern: special parsing 'value' in date-time properties}}
	'''This page is targetted at those already experienced with microformats.'''		'''This page is targetted at those already experienced with microformats.'''

Tantek: /* problems */ typo

2009-10-07T19:41:10Z

problems: typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:41, 7 October 2009
Line 474:		Line 474:

	==== problems ====		==== problems ====
	"value-title" was designed to be limited and conservative. Combining value-title with date and ~~tim e~~ separation results in some problems:		"value-title" was designed to be limited and conservative. Combining value-title with date and time separation results in some problems:
	# The combination requires value-title to be extended to be able to be used in more than one instance on a property element. This violates the deliberate design of limiting its use.		# The combination requires value-title to be extended to be able to be used in more than one instance on a property element. This violates the deliberate design of limiting its use.
	# The examples requires using it as not just the first child inside the property that it applies to.		# The examples requires using it as not just the first child inside the property that it applies to.

Tantek: note omission of explicit timezone in examples due to omission from original user visible content

2009-02-07T07:24:18Z

note omission of explicit timezone in examples due to omission from original user visible content

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:24, 7 February 2009
Line 32:		Line 32:
	It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.		It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.

	Alternatively the date and time separation pattern also enables the use of internationally human readable ISO8601 dates and ISO8601 times, which encourages the data to be fully visible (better than semi-visible).		Alternatively the date and time separation pattern also enables the use of internationally human readable ISO8601 dates and ISO8601 times, which encourages the data to be fully visible (better than semi-visible). Note that in this case an explicit timezone is often omitted, because it's typically left out of the original human visible data. Introducing an explicit ISO8601 timezone may make the content less readable, although there may be ways of including the the timezone that do not hinder usability.

	This covers only cases where a microformat property takes a date-time fixed format of data that is may be challenging for visible inclusion in a page (such as a full date-time and timezone string).		This covers only cases where a microformat property takes a date-time fixed format of data that is may be challenging for visible inclusion in a page (such as a full date-time and timezone string).

Tantek: add rejected variants section, move combined date and time separation and value-title examples and test to rejected section.

2009-02-07T07:04:24Z

add rejected variants section, move combined date and time separation and value-title examples and test to rejected section.

Show changes

Tantek: please also try value-excerption-value-title-test

2009-01-29T02:05:59Z

please also try value-excerption-value-title-test

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:05, 29 January 2009
Line 482:		Line 482:

	Misplaced responses will be moved, and having to do so will make [[User:Tantek\|Tantek (and possibly [[User:BenWard\|Ben]]) growly, so, y'know, please try to keep the wiki tidy.		Misplaced responses will be moved, and having to do so will make [[User:Tantek\|Tantek (and possibly [[User:BenWard\|Ben]]) growly, so, y'know, please try to keep the wiki tidy.

			=== Please Also Try ===
			Please also try the [[value-excerption-value-title-test]]. This is not either or. Ideally both will work and can be carried forward.

	===Successful Tests===		===Successful Tests===

Tantek: added triplicate variants of tests for more intl readable versions, American English localized, and with combination of value-title brainstorm as well

2009-01-29T01:54:34Z

added triplicate variants of tests for more intl readable versions, American English localized, and with combination of value-title brainstorm as well

Show changes

Tantek: reordered demo code for better DRY/i18n first, then abbr with value, then two value-title variant

2009-01-23T18:46:10Z

reordered demo code for better DRY/i18n first, then abbr with value, then two value-title variant

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:46, 23 January 2009
Line 10:		Line 10:
	This pattern can be used to resolve some long standing issues with including [[machine-data\|machine-data in microformats]]; it's imperative we test thoroughly before adding it to any pattern specification. Following are a number of example tests. ''Please try them out''.		This pattern can be used to resolve some long standing issues with including [[machine-data\|machine-data in microformats]]; it's imperative we test thoroughly before adding it to any pattern specification. Following are a number of example tests. ''Please try them out''.

	The pattern we're testing looks a little something like this. Those experienced with microformats should immediately see what we're trying to do. For American English-specific localized date times:		The pattern we're testing looks a little something like this. Those experienced with microformats should immediately see what we're trying to do.

			For broadly internationally readable dates and times:

			<source lang=html4strict>
			<p class='dtstart'>On
			<span class='value'>2009-01-06</span>, at
			<span class='value'>22:54</span> in the evening.
			</p>
			</source>

			For American English-specific localized date times:

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
Line 19:		Line 30:
	</source>		</source>

	~~For more broadly internationally readable date times~~:		And combining that with the [[value-excerption-value-title-test]] technique:

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
	<p class='dtstart'>On		<p class='dtstart'>On
	<span class='value'>2009-01-06</span>, at		<span class='value-title' title='2009-01-06'></span>1/6, in
	<span class='value'>22:54</span> in the evening.		<span class='value-title' title='22:54'></span>the evening
	</p>		</p>
	</source>		</source>


	It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.		It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.
Line 65:		Line 77:

	===hAtom#1: An hAtom <code>published</code>/<code>updated</code> Property===		===hAtom#1: An hAtom <code>published</code>/<code>updated</code> Property===

			'''Test to be updated and triplicated for international / US English / with value-title variants'''

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
Line 95:		Line 109:

	===hCal#1: An hCalendar <code>dtstart</code>===		===hCal#1: An hCalendar <code>dtstart</code>===

			'''Test to be updated and triplicated for international / US English / with value-title variants'''

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
Line 127:		Line 143:

	===hCard#1: An hCard <abbr title="birthday"><code>bday</code></abbr>===		===hCard#1: An hCard <abbr title="birthday"><code>bday</code></abbr>===

			'''Test to be updated and triplicated for international / US English / with value-title variants'''

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
Line 158:		Line 176:

	===hAtom + hCalendar===		===hAtom + hCalendar===

			'''Test to be updated and triplicated for international / US English / with value-title variants'''

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>

Tantek: add span variant of date and time separation for better DRY, more generally international readability. need to create test variants too.

2009-01-23T13:42:00Z

add span variant of date and time separation for better DRY, more generally international readability. need to create test variants too.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:42, 23 January 2009
Line 10:		Line 10:
	This pattern can be used to resolve some long standing issues with including [[machine-data\|machine-data in microformats]]; it's imperative we test thoroughly before adding it to any pattern specification. Following are a number of example tests. ''Please try them out''.		This pattern can be used to resolve some long standing issues with including [[machine-data\|machine-data in microformats]]; it's imperative we test thoroughly before adding it to any pattern specification. Following are a number of example tests. ''Please try them out''.

	The pattern we're testing looks a little something like this. Those experienced with microformats should immediately see what we're trying to do:		The pattern we're testing looks a little something like this. Those experienced with microformats should immediately see what we're trying to do. For American English-specific localized date times:

	<source lang=html4strict>		<source lang=html4strict>
	<p class='dtstart'>		<p class='dtstart'>On
	<abbr class='value' title='2009-01-06'>~~January 6th~~</abbr>, in		<abbr class='value' title='2009-01-06'>1/6</abbr>, in
	<abbr class='value' title='22:54'>the evening</abbr>		<abbr class='value' title='22:54'>the evening</abbr>
			</p>
			</source>

			For more broadly internationally readable date times:

			<source lang=html4strict>
			<p class='dtstart'>On
			<span class='value'>2009-01-06</span>, at
			<span class='value'>22:54</span> in the evening.
	</p>		</p>
	</source>		</source>

	It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.		It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.

			Alternatively the date and time separation pattern also enables the use of internationally human readable ISO8601 dates and ISO8601 times, which encourages the data to be fully visible (better than semi-visible).

	This covers only cases where a microformat property takes a date-time fixed format of data that is may be challenging for visible inclusion in a page (such as a full date-time and timezone string).		This covers only cases where a microformat property takes a date-time fixed format of data that is may be challenging for visible inclusion in a page (such as a full date-time and timezone string).

Tantek: add link to * value-excerption-value-title-test

2009-01-23T05:29:07Z

add link to * value-excerption-value-title-test

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:29, 23 January 2009
Line 307:		Line 307:
	* [[value-excerption-pattern-issues]]		* [[value-excerption-pattern-issues]]
	* [[value-excerption-pattern-brainstorming]]		* [[value-excerption-pattern-brainstorming]]
			* [[value-excerption-value-title-test]]

Tantek: drafted based on value-excerption-value-title-test

2009-01-23T05:17:36Z

drafted based on value-excerption-value-title-test

New page

<entry-title>Value Excerption Pattern: special parsing 'value' in date-time properties</entry-title>
'''This page is targetted at those already experienced with microformats.'''

Just like the [[value-excerption-value-title-test]] page:

''Please carefully note, this page is about a pre-draft, experimental and unfinished microformats proposal. You '''cannot''' use this pattern on your live pages, it is '''not supported''' by any stable parser and you should not assume that this pattern will be finalized as-is! We're just asking for help in testing this thoroughly. '''Thank you'''.''
__TOC__
This is a special page to introduce and gather results to widespread testing of a '''proposed''' extension to the value-excerption pattern. See [[value-excerption-pattern-brainstorming#date_and_time_separation|value excerption pattern brainstorming: date and time separation]] for the specific proposal.

This pattern can be used to resolve some long standing issues with including [[machine-data|machine-data in microformats]]; it's imperative we test thoroughly before adding it to any pattern specification. Following are a number of example tests. ''Please try them out''.

The pattern we're testing looks a little something like this. Those experienced with microformats should immediately see what we're trying to do:

<source lang=html4strict>
<p class='dtstart'>
<abbr class='value' title='2009-01-06'>January 6th</abbr>, in
<abbr class='value' title='22:54'>the evening</abbr>
</p>
</source>

It allows you to include machine-form date and time data alongside the human form equivalents, without polluting visible formatted content with the harder to read/understand fully expanded ISO8601 datetime, and also with bringing the ISO8601 date equivalent and ISO8601 time equivalents closer to the localized language specific versions.

This covers only cases where a microformat property takes a date-time fixed format of data that is may be challenging for visible inclusion in a page (such as a full date-time and timezone string).

This pattern is based on being able to deterministically parse date vs time values differently and compositing the different pieces of a full date-time value into a single ISO8601 datetime. This allows separately marking up the date and the time (which reflects common publishing practice of separating those two pieces of content in their context), and therefore reducing the DRY violation impact (by keeping the duplicate alternates closer), and providing more readable/understandable alternates as well. The semi-visibility advantage of being able to verify date or time alternate values via tooltip is enhanced by the greater readability/understandability of the individual components over full ISO8601 datetime.

Additionally the special parsing rules could also be applied to <code>value-title</code> as well; whatever makes most sense to your publishing scenario.

Based on everything we know up to this point, we believe this pattern will work. But, it's wide ranging and the web is broad, and we want to be sure. Please, help us out testing this pattern proposal. Examples tests are below, please push them or your own variants into publishing systems, content management systems, editor applications and tools. Check that it comes out the other side with the data intact, and exposed (or hidden) as expected: Render it in desktop browsers, mobile browers, screen readers, in braille… ''anything you can test, we want to know about''! We need to see any quirks, oddities and so on.

Also, by all means provide thoughts on the publishing flow for this.

'''Note that valid HTML is a cornerstone of microformats'''. ''Inventing new attributes, depending on unstable drafts of HTML5, using non-standard DOCTYPEs or XML extensions is not an applicable option''. We're trying to achieve something as gracefully as we can within the limitations of HTML4, and without harming user experience.

==The proposed parsing rules==

The current, likely incomplete, parsing rules and restrictions for this pattern are as follows:

* When parsing "value" excerption values for a datetime property, rather than simply appending multiple "value" children they should be parsed for the following, in order, and the first occurrence of a date and/or time component must be used:
*# ISO8601 datetime. For backward compatibility, if a ISO8601 date AND time value is found in a "value" element then there is no need to look for additional "value" elements.
*# ISO8601 date with hyphens.
*# ISO8601 time with timezone.
*# ISO8601 time without timezone.
*# ISO8601 timezone.
* The "value" excerption data ''must'' represent the same data as the visible text of the property; the parent property ''must not'' contain arbitrary data. Validator tools will be encouraged to verify this where possible (for example, some programming languages have access to powerful date parsing algorithms that can compare human dates and times to the ISO forms).
* '''value-title option''': Additionally, while parsing for "value" elements, parse for <code>value-title</code> elements as well, and consider their values as well for the above.
** If an element specifies both "value" and "value-title" class names, treat it as a "value" element, as the more visible data must be preferred.
** Empty elements used with "value-title" can be ''any element'', but a generic <code>span</code> is most appropriate. You could use <code>b</code> if you want to save bytes, or an <code>input type=hidden</code> if it makes sense to you. That choice will not matter to parsers. You are in complete control of that publishing decision. As per usual microformats documentation, <code>span</code> will be used for generic examples.
** The <code>value-title</code> property does not have to be empty. If you ''do'' want a tool-tip to expose a useful data-form, you can. e.g. <code><span class='value-title' title='2008'>last year</span></code> is valid too.

==Example Tests==

The following snippets are example tests for the new pattern. You can use them as is, or use them as a base for your own tests with your own content. If you write your own tests, please document them under ‘additional test cases’ so that any failing tests can be checked for validity.

===hAtom#1: An hAtom <code>published</code>/<code>updated</code> Property===

<source lang=html4strict>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Value Excerption Pattern Test hAtom#1dt</title>
</head>
<body>
<div class="hentry">
<h1 class="entry-title">An introduction to Microformats</h1>
<p>
Published on <span class="published updated">
<abbr class="value" title="2009-01-09">January 9th</abbr>,
<abbr class="value" title="11:33:00-0800">around lunchtime</abbr>
</span>
by <span class="author vcard">
<a class="url fn" href="http://example.com">
Joe Blogger</a></span>.
</p>
<p class="entry-content">Wow, microformats are really useful! You can
learn loads about them on the
<a href="http://microformats.org/wiki">microformats wiki</a>.
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</source>

===hCal#1: An hCalendar <code>dtstart</code>===

<source lang=html4strict>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Value Excerption Pattern Test hCal#1dt</title>
</head>
<body>
<div class="vevent">
<h1 class="summary">Value Exception Test Day!</h1>
<p class="description">Come help <span class="organizer vcard">
<a class="fn url org" href="http://microformats.org">microformats.org</a>
</span> test a new value-excerption pattern for sanity and
robustness!
</p>
<p>Help out by running some tests at
<span class="dtstart">
<abbr class="value" title="12:00">midday</abbr>
on
<abbr class="value" title="2009-01-12">Monday January 12th</abbr>.
</span>
</p>
<p>See <a class="url" href="http://microformats.org/wiki/value-excerption-dt-separation-test">the
wiki</a> for more details!
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</source>

===hCard#1: An hCard <abbr title="birthday"><code>bday</code></abbr>===

<source lang=html4strict>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Value Excerption Pattern Test hCard#1dt</title>
</head>
<body>

<div class="vcard">
<h1 class="fn">Ben Ward</h1>
<p>Ben Ward's birthday is
<span class="bday">
<abbr class="value" title="1984-02-09">February 9th</abbr>.
</span>
You should throw him a party!
</p>
</div>

</body>
</html>
</source>

''If you believe there is an error in any of these tests, or in any others that people contribute, please post on the {{MicroformatsMailingList}}.''

==Evil Tests==

If you want to give existing microformat parsers a good run out, construct ‘evil’ tests using nesting, combination and interpolation of different microformats.

===hAtom + hCalendar===

<source lang=html4strict>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Value Excerption Pattern Test hAtomhCalEvil#1dt</title>
</head>
<body>
<div class="hentry vevent">
<h1 class="entry-title summary">An introduction to Microformats</h1>
<p>
Published on <span class="published updated">
<abbr class="value" title="2009-01-09"> January 11th</abbr>,
<abbr class="value" title="11:33:00-0800">late afternoon</abbr>
</span>
by <span class="author organizer vcard">
<a class="url fn" href="http://example.com">
Joe Blogger</a></span>.
</p>
<p class="entry-content description">
<span class="dtstart">
<abbr class="value" title="2009-01-14">this coming Wednesday</abbr>
at
<abbr class="value" title="19:00:00">7</abbr>
</span> is not the date of a completely fictional microformats
event. If it existed, it would promise to be informative and get
you up to speed on microformats.org for 2009! Now you've
learned to work with microformats a little, why not attend and
get involved! Why not? Because this event is a test case, not
for real.
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</source>

==Response==

* Don't like the ISO8601 dates? Don't like ISO8601 times? Don't like the use of the multiple "value" elements? '''Please file general issues concerning the proposed pattern on the main [[value-excerption-pattern-brainstorming#date_and_time_separation|value excerption brainstorming page]]''', or discuss them on the {{MicroformatsMailingList}}.
* Add results of tests and responses to these tests themselves on ''this page''.

Misplaced responses will be moved, and having to do so will make [[User:Tantek|Tantek (and possibly [[User:BenWard|Ben]]) growly, so, y'know, please try to keep the wiki tidy.

===Successful Tests===

List successfully tested environments here. Add new environments as new list items, and expand existing list items with your name and platform variants to indicate verified successes.

{|
|+ Results of tests across various publishing/rendering environments
|-
! Product
! <abbr title="Publishing or Consuming?">P/C?</abbr>
! Platforms
! Test By
! Notes
|-
| MediaWiki/Linux
| Publishing
| Safari 3.2.1 (Mac OSX 10.5)
| 
|
|-
| Safari 2.0.4
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5
| 
|
|-
| Safari 3.2.1
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5,
| 
|
|-
| Firefox 2.0
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5
| 
|
|-
| Firefox 3.0
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5,
| 
|
|-
| Firefox 3.1ß1
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5,
| 
|
|-
| Opera 9.62
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5,
| 
|
|-
| Internet Explorer 5.2
| Consuming
| Mac OSX 10.5,
| 
|
|-
| Internet Explorer 6.0
| Consuming
| Windows XP (<abbr title="Service Pack 3">SP3</abbr>)
| 
|
|-
| Internet Explorer 7.0
| Consuming
| Windows XP (<abbr title="Service Pack 3">SP3</abbr>)
| 
|
|-
| Internet Explorer 8.0 beta 2
| Consuming
| Windows XP (<abbr title="Service Pack 3">SP3</abbr>)
| 
|
|-
|}

===Failed Tests===

For failures, please provide as much information as you can. The precise impact of the error, whether the behavior could be regarded as a bug in the software you're testing, whether it works in subsequent releases, whether you changed any settings in the software to produce the result, and if so, whether enabling/disabling that setting should be regarded a showstopper if this pattern were certified.

Since we want more detail, please expand failures into headed sections rather than cramming into a table.

For example, take this entirely plausible scenario as a template:

====Example: Fake Publisher 3.1ß====
; Platform
: Windows Vista
; Test By
: [[User:BenWard]]
; Description
: When trying to enter an abbr in my <abbr title="Hypertext Markup Language">HTML</abbr> editor, which I wrote myself whilst I was high, the application immediately crashes, performs <code>rm -rf /</code> on all UNIX boxes connected to my local network (which also appears to cause Android phones within Bluetooth range to do the same…), and then causes all attached peripherals to combust. I was not able to reproduce, as my house was now on fire.
; Notes
: This is a beta release, and a bug has been filed.
: This product has a known history of flammability bugs.
: The user must explicitly enable the ‘Endanger My Life’ checkbox under the ‘Advanced Mislabelled Checkboxes’ tab of the ‘Complicated Preferences’ preferences pane.
: You get the idea.



===General Test Feedback===
<div class='discussion'>
* Any general feedback you have on this test is most welcome. However, if you have issues with the pattern or alternate suggestions, please file them on the main [[value-excerption-pattern-issues]] page. Also, please remember to sign your comments with <nowiki>—~~~~</nowiki> —[[User:BenWard|BenWard]] 00:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
* … 
** … 
</div>

==Related Pages==

* [[value-excerption-pattern]]
* [[value-excerption-pattern-issues]]
* [[value-excerption-pattern-brainstorming]]