[uf-discuss] Citation: next steps?

Tantek Ç elik tantek at cs.stanford.edu
Tue Aug 29 15:58:11 PDT 2006


This is a good summary to date and deserving of being captured on the
citation-brainstorming page.



On 8/29/06 3:19 PM, "Brian Suda" <brian.suda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Mike, thanks for bringing this up.
> I spent a good portion of the weekend looking at my earlier straw
> proposal. I started to create an XMDP file and took the examples
> listed on the wiki and attempted to mark them-up with the citation
> microformat. This would help to find any deficiencies.
> The 3 main points i came across so far are:
> 1) In hCard/hCalendar there is a UID field. Added with URL it makes
> for a great unique identifier. There are loads of other identifers
> besides URL, ISBN, LOC call number, SKU, ISSN, etc. Many of these are
> unique in their domain, but not globally unique. So how to they get
> marked-up? Much like the hCard TEL/ADR properties, we can use
> something like:
> <div class="uid"><span class="type">ISBN</span>: <span
> class="value">123456</span></div>
> This makes the encoding the most extensible... if we start use
> class="isbn" then it is an enumerated list, with class="type" it is
> open ended.
> 2) I keep mis-using "format", format is the medium - hardback,
> softback. The TYPE (there probably is a better word - container?) is
> book, article, conference, manifesto, etc. Much like the identifers we
> can make an enumerated list of values, class="book", class="article",
> but that boxes us in, whereas something like: <span
> class="type">article</span> leaves things more open.
> 3) Nesting citation data in a citation. The ability to nest the same
> microformat inside itself is something that other microformats don't
> explicitly handle.
> The two options are:
> i) Using class="book"
> <div class="hcite">
> <div class="book">
>  <span class="fn">Book Title</span>
>  <div class="chapter">
>     <span class="fn">Chapter Title</span>
>  </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> This makes things easy to nest and to figure out exactly what is
> associated with what, but the downside is that we have enumerated
> lists of values for the class properties.
> ii) using the TYPE for book
> <div class="hcite">
> <div class="type">book</div>
> <span class="fn">Book Title</span>
> <div class="type">chapter</div>
> <span class="fn">Chapter Title</span>
> </div>
> now the class="fn" is not nested inside the class="book" or
> class="chapter" so there would have to be some other mechanism to
> associate the data with the type.
> This is just a brief summary of the outstanding issues. I have been
> quite busy with other things, and i'm not sure exactly how or where to
> proceed? I have a feeling the citation discussion is pretty heavy and
> i don't want to waste people's time with all the back and forth
> messages on the mailing list - it is high traffic enough already...
> the wiki is nice, but not everyone keeps a close eye on it... IRC is
> another option. We've done 'meet-ups' in the past and they worked
> fairly well? so i'll leave it up to others on where/how we should
> proceed. maybe like the REST mailing list we need to spin off a
> temporary citations mailing list? (although that means YAML, Yet
> Another Mailing List)
> I am still working on exactly WHAT we are proceeding on. I'll be
> offline for the next few days due to traveling, so a deadline of the
> 30th is probably not realistic. I am certainly open to suggestions.
> -brian
> On 8/29/06, Michael McCracken <michael.mccracken at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi, aside from adding a few good examples of existing formats, it
>> looks like there hasn't been any movement toward the Aug 30 deadline
>> for hCite 0.1. Should we reschedule the goal?
>> Also, what is the immediate next step on the path to a recommendation?
>> Do we need to clarify the existing research on the wiki? Is anyone
>> waiting for an answer or agreement before moving forward?
>> Thanks,
>> -mike
>> --
>> Michael McCracken
>> UCSD CSE PhD Candidate
>> research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/
>> misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/
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