[uf-discuss] Citation format straw proposal on the wiki

Wed Mar 29 11:53:22 PST 2006

On 29 Mar 2006, at 14:44, Michael McCracken wrote:

> Yeah, this is getting very similar, and I certainly don't have any
> huge problems with the differences between our versions. A couple
> questions:
>
> - I'm still not convinced about [type] as a class, although it'd be
> useful to have that data in there somewhere, it seems like it has the
> potential to create a lot of classes (aren't class names shared across
> all microformats?) and it also doesn't line up with how citations are
> used on the web now, eg. you don't say "[3] Book: "Linkers & Loaders",
> John R. Levine, 2000" , you say "[3] "Linkers & Loaders", John R.
> Levine, 2000"

I just think it would be hard for a processor to process a  
microformatted citation if it didn't know what type it was and thus  
which elements to look for. If looking for a class="type" inside the  
citation and getting the information from there is easier than  
looking for a classname in the parent then fair enough.

> - why use <x class="creators"><hcards></x> instead of just the list of
> hcards with no containing element? what is requiring that element
> buying us?

To distinguish the people from editors or other contributors? You  
could add that information into each person's hcard instead, but it  
seems better this way. It could have an effect on the display  
formatting too.

> - pages is probably not required for a minimal valid citation
> microformat - consider citing a web page or personal communication...

Right (audio too)... 'pages' was just there as an example of a  
citation type-specific element.

alf.

>
> On 3/29/06, Alf Eaton <lists at hubmed.org> wrote:
>> OK, so a minimal microformat for a citation could look like this:
>>
>> <x class="citation [type]">
>>         <x class="title">Item title</x>
>>         <x class="creators"><hcards></x>
>>         <x class="container citation [type]"><hcitation for the  
>> container></x>
>>         <x class="pages">n-n</x> [and anything else specific to this
>> particular type of citation]
>> </x>
>>
>> I think that's essentially very similar to Mike's version too.
>>
>> alf.
>>
>> On 29 Mar 2006, at 14:20, Breton Slivka wrote:
>>
>>> True, but a mechanism for this sort of thing already exists for
>>> microformats in XMDP, and in a somewhat more flexiible form, in
>>> that one does not need a monolithic profile for all the modules
>>> involved, one can have a seperate profile for each module and link
>>> to each seperately.
>>>
>>> The basic thrust of this is to follow the microformat principal of
>>> solving the simple problem first. Out of all these specific domains
>>> exists a definite "simplest problem". The only dispute that I see
>>> is that the simplest problem doesn't solve all the domain specific
>>> problems. You wouldn't expect it to! So you make additional
>>> microformats to solve the domain specific issues. Thus the "micro"
>>> in microformats, as I understand it.
>>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Alf Eaton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29 Mar 2006, at 14:02, Breton Slivka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If we are for the moment to entertain the idea of modularization,
>>>>> couldn't type then be simply inferred by which module(s) in use?
>>>>> If you go with a nesting microformat model for that, type is
>>>>> encapsulated entirely in the container class of specific modules,
>>>>> and the modules which are in use determine behavior, much the
>>>>> same as embedded svg/mathml does today, or a more direct
>>>>> comparison in the modularization of xhtml.
>>>>
>>>> If you embed MathML and SVG in XHTML you still have to use the
>>>> right DOCTYPE, so that the validator knows which modules are
>>>> allowed (though admittedly you don't necessarily need the precise
>>>> DOCTYPE just for displaying/interpreting the document):
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC
>>>>     "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1//EN"
>>>>     "http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xhtml-math-svg/xhtml-math-svg.dtd">
>>>>
>>>> alf.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Michael McCracken
> UCSD CSE PhD Candidate
> research: http://www.cse.ucsd.edu/~mmccrack/
> misc: http://michael-mccracken.net/wp/
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