[uf-discuss] Citation Straw Proposal II (Recap)

Bruce D'Arcus bdarcus.lists at gmail.com
Fri May 5 05:44:51 PDT 2006

On 5/4/06, Brian Suda <brian.suda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Author/Editor/Translator should be a priority.
> --- This has been recently explored as possibly using the hcard ROLE
> property. This is a very interesting idea. Basically, since we are
> requiring that "creators" be marked-up as hCards we can use those
> properties in both realms (vCard and Citation). Here is a simple
> example:
> <div class="citation">
>   <div class="vcard">
>     <span class="fn">Brian Suda</span>
>     <span class="role">Author</span>
>   </div>
>   <div class="vcard">
>     <span class="fn org">XYZ Publishing House</span>
>     <span class="role">Publisher</span>
>   </div>
>   ...
> </div>
> The question i am asking myself, is "Does role make sense outside of
> the citation format?" "If i were to extract JUST the vCards is ROLE
> still correct?"

Technically, a role is a relation between an agent and something else;
another agent -- like an organization -- or in this case some
creation. So a role is not property of an agent.

Also, convention is that the only roles that are printed/displayed are
seconday ones like editor and translator, and they are often
abbreviated; e.g. "Jane Doe and John Smith (Eds.)".

> isPartOf seems pretty important
> --- This one has got me thinking as well, and i'm interested in other
> peoples' feedback. Since "Format" was incorrect, isPartOf is what i
> intended. "This citation is part of a Book", etc. I am also wondering
> if a sort of nested citation is a good idea or not? vCard has an AGENT
> property, which is a vCard inside a vCard. We might be able to do the
> same for a Citation.
> A given article citation is part of a journal (which is just another
> citation). The problem is that they would share ALOT of the same info
> (PubDate, Publisher, etc) It would be difficult to publish an article
> in a journal by two different publishers? (or i am off the mark here?)
> So i'm not sure how much benefit there is in nesting citations.

You see the benefit even in really simple examples like chapters in
edited collections. The chapter author is a creator on the main level,
while the editor is attached to the container.

> the use of urls as IDs, and the use of additional protocols, such as
> ISBN, urn:, etc.
> Retrieved Date or Access Date
> this was first brought-up in the straw example discussion, so the new
> examples need to be folded into the schema. Can someone do a write-up
> of WHAT IS ACCESS DATE and how it differs and why it is important.

I'm in a hurry, but say you cite a New York Times article online. In
academic citation, you MUST include the acces date, in part because if
someone tries to access it three years later, it probabaly won't be


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