[uf-discuss] Use of <abbr> (also <object>) and Accessibility

Tantek Ç elik tantek at cs.stanford.edu
Thu Sep 21 18:10:32 PDT 2006

On 9/21/06 5:07 PM, "Andy Mabbett" <andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

> In message <C138691F.7B722%tantek at cs.stanford.edu>, Tantek Çelik
> <tantek at cs.stanford.edu> writes
>>>>         <ttp://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167>
>>>> also an interesting take on the non-use of <object>.
>>> I'm a little confused reading through that: The debate about whether
>>> the use of ABBR is fine and well, I follow that, but maybe I came too
>>> late the Microformats community to understand the references to OBJECT.
>>> In general, the _theoretical_ ABBR discussion is well based, datetime
>>> is a new use and perhaps it stretches the element too farS maybe not.
>> The only objectionable examples listed in that accessify thread
>> represent edge cases, rather than the common case.
> In what way are they edge cases? They're very real examples, taken from
> the Wiki.

They are not from the wiki AFAIK.  The example from the accessify thread is
a mutation/misquote from a blog post of mine.

Typical use of dates (not times) in prose omit the year, as well in sites,
search results for events etc., whereas the example given puts the date in
the prose.  Using the year inline every time a day and month is state is the
edge case.

For times, typical use in prose omit the timezone, as well in sites, search
results for events etc.

>>  It's (I hate to say this, but typical) reasoning by edge case rather
>> than reasoning by 80% case.
> Well, they'll certainly both be more than 80% of *my* use of those
> formats.

Do you state the year every time you state the day and month?

Do you state your timezone everytime you state the time?

>>> The thing is though, people love to talk their interpretation of
>>> the semantics and expected behaviours but I'm yet to see anyone with
>>> access to assistive technology produce examples to demonstrate
>>> problems (or otherwise).
>> A very good point Ben.
> Indeed - which is why I've gone to the people who use them, to ask for
> concrete examples.
>> So far the critics have only been chicken-littling which we should all
>> have very little patience for.
> I believe that "chicken-littling" is an Americanism meaning "scare
> mongering". If so, who is doing that?

The accessify link you pointed to is one such example though there have been
some threads in this list as well.


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