[uf-discuss] Putting microformats on the BBC iPlayer

Wed Mar 5 07:24:36 PST 2008

Thanks everyone for the responses.

We especially resonated with the pushing the use of them now in their  
full format, not quite accessible as they can be. Ultimately  
microformats are standards-based and there to support accessibility  
rather than hinder. It's about time screen readers had a reason to  
move quicker.

In firefox 3, microformats should be in http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Product_Requirements_Document 
  (CON-008a). However nothing appears in the latest beta.

Having spoke with others internally, the consensus was to use the abbr  
tag for the time being, and all the caveats that it brings.

Adam

On 5 Mar 2008, at 12:47, Michael Smethurst wrote:

> Whoops that wasn't meant to go out to the world
>
> But whilst I'm here I probably should point out that /most/ bbc
> services/channels/networks now have uf-ed schedules
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/programmes/schedules
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/oxford
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/programmes/schedules
>
> I'll leave you to guess the rest of the urls
>
> For the moment some schedules are still missing (fivelive, bbc  
> parliament,
> local radio etc) but they'll be along soon. They're also not  
> properly linked
> into the site but over time will replace existing bbc schedules  
> currently
> provided by:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/whatson/
>
> Should also note that all of the below still applies. We're looking  
> for
> clarification on the accessibility / semantic validity of these  
> pages. And
> we'll let you know if/when we get it ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/3/08 12:21, "Michael Smethurst" <Michael.Smethurst at bbc.co.uk>  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Adam
>>
>> We've had the same problems with http://bbc.co.uk/programmes. For  
>> now we've
>> stuck with the standard abbr design pattern but as Mr Mabbett  
>> helpfully
>> pointed out our use has potential accessibility issues and definite  
>> semantic
>> nastiness.
>>
>> See here:
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/formats/animation
>>
>> We've spoken to the bbc accessibility and semantic html working  
>> groups. The
>> accessibility people said there were no accessibility problems  
>> which in the
>> light of discussions here and elsewhere surprises me. I'm still  
>> chasing to
>> get a definite answer and some proper testing
>>
>> The conversation is currently in the hands of the UXD cluster
>>
>> I've been pushing to get full coverage testing and an update to the  
>> BBC
>> accessibility standards to say either:
>>
>> - you may use microformats
>> - you may use the abbreviation design pattern
>>
>> Or conversely
>>
>> - you may use microformats
>> - you must not use the abbreviation design pattern
>>
>> [And similar for rdf-a]
>>
>> Would be good if you could also raise these questions with Nick  
>> Holmes and
>> cc Frances Berriman and me. Ta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/3/08 13:26, "Adam Craven - Four Shapes" <adam.craven at fourshapes.com 
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi fellers,
>>>
>>> We're working on the next version of the BBC iPlayer and would  
>>> love to
>>> put some microformats in there.
>>>
>>> Below is what I've gotten so far. In this particular instance  
>>> there's
>>> a single box (206x115) with an image attached. When hovered over,
>>> using JavaScript, the idea is to retrieve the last 7 days of shows  
>>> for
>>> that particular program. I've opted to use the vevent pattern as  
>>> it's
>>> the most widely supported currently - this is open to change in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> I have a concern though. At the moment the spec's datatime pattern  
>>> is
>>> <abbr>. Unfortunately screen readers are going to mangle this, which
>>> is unacceptable naturally, so I've reverted to hiding the abbr with
>>> {display:none} (this will cover the majority of screen readers) and
>>> filled the field with with extra text, date;
>>>
>>> <h4><abbr class="dtstart dtstamp"  
>>> title="2008-03-04T00:00:00Z">Date:</
>>> abbr>Mon 8pm - Radio 2</h4>
>>>
>>> That way the information can still be parsed. I understand this is  
>>> an
>>> incorrect implementation, but currently unsure how to work around  
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have suggestions how this can be worked around whilst
>>> still keeping relatively good screen reader support?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <li class="programme">
>>> <div class="feature">
>>> <a id="uid-9121211" href="#9121211" class="image uid url">
>>> <img src="img/_dev/206x115.jpg" width="206" height="115"
>>> alt="206x115" />
>>> </a>
>>> <div class="details">
>>> <a class="play-tv" href="#9121211">
>>> <span>Play TV</span>
>>> </a>
>>> <h3 id="summary-9121211" class="summary">
>>> <a href="#9121211">Two pints of Juergen and a ...</a>
>>> </h3>
>>> </div>
>>> </div>
>>> <ul>
>>> <li class="vevent featured">
>>> <a href="#summary-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <a href="#uid-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <h4><abbr class="dtstart dtstamp"
>>> title="2008-03-04T00:00:00Z">Date:</abbr>Mon 8pm - Radio 2</h4>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <p>Short description of episode lies here. It can be up-to 90
>>> characters long.</p>
>>> <p>Expires in 3 days</p>
>>> </div>
>>> <p><a href="#downbaby">More episodes >></a></p>
>>> </li>
>>> <li class="vevent">
>>> <a href="#summary-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <a href="#uid-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <h4><abbr class="dtstart dtstamp"
>>> title="2008-03-04T00:00:00Z">Date:</abbr>Mon 8pm - Radio 2</h4>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <p>Short description of episode lies here. It can be up-to 90
>>> characters long.</p>
>>> <p>Expires in 3 days</p>
>>> </div>
>>> <p><a href="#downbaby">More episodes >></a></p>
>>> </li>
>>> <li class="vevent">
>>> <a href="#summary-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <a href="#uid-9121211" class="include"></a>
>>> <h4><abbr class="dtstart dtstamp"
>>> title="2008-03-04T00:00:00Z">Date:</abbr>Mon 8pm - Radio 2</h4>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <p>Short description of episode lies here. It can be up-to 90
>>> characters long.</p>
>>> <p>Expires in 3 days</p>
>>> </div>
>>> <p><a href="#downbaby">More episodes >></a></p>
>>> </li>
>>> </ul>
>>>
>>>
>>> </li>
>>> </li>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microformats-discuss mailing list
>>> microformats-discuss at microformats.org
>>> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
>>
>>
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